Raw food and Heavy Weight training

[alainplus]

Has anyone here gained a substantial amount of weight on raw food through weight lifting or other resistance activities? (about 10+ lbs of muscle)

I'm attempting to eat raw primarily for the mental benefits I hear it brings but I am definitely not looking to lose weight. To gain weight, you simply just eat more food.

I'm wondering if anyone can share your experiences. Primarily financial, numbers of meals you have, your staple foods etc.,

[ginkgo]

One raw bodybuilder says that the best food to gain muscle with is avocado. The author of The Zone said that bodybuilders should get extra calories from eating more good fat.

[alainplus]

A big name among Raw foodists seems to be Victoria Boutenko. I was attracted to her ideas on a whim. Mostly claims of her working 15 to 17 hours and the extensive number of footnotes and references in her books.

Her basic idea is mixing greens with fruits to make your smoothies, which makes more sense to me than piling up on fruits for years on end.

When I'm rich, I'll be able to afford avocados on a regular basis.

[runningbird]

I'm no expert but wouldn't hemp protein be one of the more desirable foods, followed by seeds and nuts (i.e. pumpkin, flax, almond). Protein is the most diminished factor of a raw food diet, which is definitely important for body builders.

[Dreamline]

There is an interesting dichotomy in returning to a nature-based state with eating of raw foods yet choosing the most unnatural activity of body building.

Jennifer

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

There is an interesting dichotomy in returning to a nature-based state with eating of raw foods yet choosing the most unnatural activity of body building.

Jennifer

Building a more fit, and tone body is not unnatural. Just because our ancestors didn't go to a gym doesn't mean they didn't workout. They actually would have lifted heavy weight on a daily basis, and would perform movements such as squats, lunges, deadlifts, and other compound movements, which happen to be the main exercises of bodybuilding. What is unnatural would be running or jogging for an hour, they would instead walk daily probably miles, and sprint when hunting or being chased. We no longer need to lift heavy items to live, so instead resistance training is a component of good health.

[alainplus]

There is an interesting dichotomy in returning to a nature-based state with eating of raw foods yet choosing the most unnatural activity of body building.

Jennifer

You're using an electrical box to talk to me. You probably drive a car. You probably go to a doctor when you're very sick to get yourself injected with pharmaceuticals. Is riding a bike natural? Is going camping natural? Come on. There's nothing natural about being human if you carefully look at human history. You think the humans building those pyramids were raving about the benefits of raw food on their blogs? If you want that kind of natural lifestyle, it's in the desolate Kalahari desert or the mosquito-filled Amazonian jungle. You know, I don't think Mozart ate raw food but his contributions to culture are still quite substantial. The same goes for the numerous scientists that have roamed this Earth. It's just food. It's not an elixir. It's not "natural". There's nothing natural about cutting down acres of forests to plant crops in straight lines. The current trend of the human population increase make it so that even the way we grow our food is extremely unnatural with increased pesticide use, increased use of fresh water, and increased used of oil etc., For the sake of just putting it out there. The word natural doesn't actually mean anything.

I'm no expert but wouldn't hemp protein be one of the more desirable foods, followed by seeds and nuts (i.e. pumpkin, flax, almond). Protein is the most diminished factor of a raw food diet, which is definitely important for body builders.

Is that legal?

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by alainplus

Has anyone here gained a substantial amount of weight on raw food through weight lifting or other resistance activities? (about 10+ lbs of muscle)

Hi!

I am into raw foods and heavy weightlifting. But I'm also overweight and losing fat on the raw diet, so I haven't gained a substantial amount of weight. I am gaining a substantial amount of muscle though, I know this simply because I'm able to lift heavier and heavier weights, which wouldn't be possible if I weren't gaining muscle.

I'm afraid I cannot really help you yet, though. In May and part of April I ate cooked food (for emotional & psychological reasons). Since June 1st I'm back to raw foods, but I'm trying out a fruitarian diet for one month out of curiosity. So what I eat is: fruit. (including non-sweet fruit like tomatoes and cucumber, and avocado, as well as nuts and seeds).

From my experience, food that's great to gain muscle on is: avocado, tomatoes, olives (if you eat salt), nuts and seeds, and greens, greens, greens.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

PS: Hemp seeds are legal, at least here in Europe. I've heard they have great protein, but have never tried them myself.

[Creative]

As other posters have suggested- avocado is fabulous is you are looking to put on weight. My mother is proof of this!

[Dreamline]

As expected. I find that bodybuilders are very defensive of their art.

Our ancestor's muscles were built based on the necessity of their daily lives. If you were a smith you had a different body than if you were a farmer or a merchant or a soldier. Your diet tended to match your needs, naturally and your body grew, as needed, over several hours a day of working, not two hours of intense training in a gym.

Now we all have desk jobs but want warrior bodies. So that is already unnatural.

Just sayin...if you have to eat seven avocados a day as a rawist trying to look like Conan the Barbarian...something is weird in this picture.

Jennifer

[Rose of Cairo]

Who talked about seven avocados a day??

Besides, there's a big difference between weightlifting and bodybuilding. Don't confuse.

I find weightlifting very natural. The movements are the same as those you perform when you climb on trees, search for food outside, cultivate a garden, carry water, or build a wooden house. What's unnatural is sitting all day long doing desk jobs. In my eyes, raw diet + weightlifting is a very logical combination.

Also, who said you have to do two hours at the gym and then sit the rest of the time? It's very well possible to incorporate more small unities of exercise into your daily life. I personally never lift weights for more than 20-30 minutes in a row.

[Dreamline]

alain talked about weightlifting but ginkgo is talking about bodybuilding.

Jennifer

[Nathalie]

Hi,

I've been raw/high raw for 3 years. I do martial arts 2 times a week, and I've also done a lot of swimming. I think that as long as you're eating enough to sustain your energy use, and doing the right exercises, you'll be able to gain muscle.

I also recommend you read about Alissa Cohen. She is a raw food teacher and author, and she does weight lifting every day and has done so for many many years. I've never met her in person, but she has muscles - from what I can tell in the photos.

Good luck!
Nathalie

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Who talked about seven avocados a day??

Besides, there's a big difference between weightlifting and bodybuilding. Don't confuse.

See next post!

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

alain talked about weightlifting but ginkgo is talking about bodybuilding.

Jennifer

You should explain what you imagine the difference to be. Like what is the difference between the following: heart attack and myocardial infarction; stroke and cerebrovascular accident; car and automobile; fat and adipose tissue; gay and homosexual.

See this site about both and see the picture at the top. The Pumping Station - Weight Training, Weight Lifting, Bodybuilding Now this site says that there is a big difference: Bodybuilder Extensively Explains Difference Between Bodybuilding, Weightlifting | The Onion - America's Finest News Source It says "It's a frequent assumption that weightlifting and bodybuilding are one and the same," Tuttle, 41, told Perry Sarkes." "Bodybuilding emphasizes developing large, well-defined, well-proportioned muscles," Tuttle said. "In weightlifting, on the other hand, the goal is simply increasing muscular strength." If you knew that it is a "frequent assumption" wouldn't you explain the imaginary difference?

For example I can say that it is a frequent assumption that "you can't have your cake and eat it also." Well should I stop there and make you ponder what is wrong with the above. No! The correct saying is actually "You cannot eat your cake and have it also." I own the 700 page book, Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding by governor of CA. A lot of it is about weightlifting.

This is false and vague-- the above about difference. The first step in building bigger muscles is to lift heavier weights. The way to lift heavier weights is to increase muscular strength. Champion bodybuilders lift extremely heavy weights. He may be referring to powerlifting. The governor of CA said that he was a powerlifter before being a bodybuilder and that gave him an edge. Now if I explain the difference between powerlifting and bodybuilding as what the guy above said then it would be as stupid and vague as what he said.

The theory to building big muscles (bodybuilding) is to lift the heaviest weight that you can lift around (approximately) 8 or 10 times (reps). Every person uses a different formula for number of reps per set. With powerlifting you could say that strength does not matter. It does matter but technique is more important. Like hitting a baseball with a bat is more technique than strength. What does matter is the number of pounds that you can lift. That is how you win. So it is technique and strength that matters, but not how fat you look. Excess fat will cover up a bodybuilder's muscles. But the powerlifter does not care how fat he looks. The extra fat gives him stability just like it can give a football player an edge.

This is getting into physics. To win at bodybuilding, judges use their opinion to judge who looks better. I have been doing bodybuilding for decades. In the early 70s they had protein drinks but Americans eat 5 times the protein that they need. Then they learned that extra fat burns no calories but extra muscle does. A pound of extra muscle burns an extra 40 calories per day according to Wockhardt Hospital and Mass Builders Newsletter, June 1998. Then also when the body 'recovers' from weight lifting it burns extra calories so in the late 80s, they created supplements with high calories since their body burns lots more calories.

So as far as affording avocados, it is more expensive to eat if you look like the governor of CA then if you are thin since an extra 20 pounds of muscle burns an extra 800 calories an hour. Just kidding-- that is per day. Some people say that they are bad at numbers! Then how do they pay bills or buy things or deal with money at all? I agree that avocados are expensive compared to bananas but avocados are 60% fat and fat has more calories than protein or carbs. Also the fat in avocados is anti-inflammatory.

They also suggest eating olives but as far as raw olives that is a complex subject as far as curing the olives. I will pose that as a question.

[ginkgo]

Do you know the difference between an actor and an actress or a waiter and a waitress? Do you think that one is female and the other is male? That is incorrect. All actresses are actors but not all actors are actresses.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

There is an interesting dichotomy in returning to a nature-based state with eating of raw foods yet choosing the most unnatural activity of body building.

Jennifer

If you want to get technical, the raw food diet is probably not really all that natural either.

Our ancestors ate whatever they could find. Whether that meant that nice raw piece of fruit, nuts, or that nice quaint little buffalo standing out there looking like a steak.

They also had fire, and I'm sure they figured out that warming stuff up tasted better than eating it raw.

I'm not a bodybuilder or anything like that. I'm just sayin'.

[alainplus]

From those of you who have gone raw, what are the mental benefits? Is your memory much stronger? Can you concentrate on tasks for longer periods of time? Do you find yourself in better moods.

I see a lot of these claims in testimonials but as always, I like confirmation from actual people.

From my experience, food that's great to gain muscle on is: avocado, tomatoes, olives (if you eat salt), nuts and seeds, and greens, greens, greens.

I see a lot green smoothies in my future.
I've been slowly incorporating more raw food. Since you can never eat too much raw food, I've stopped counting calories for now and I just eat.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by alainplus

From those of you who have gone raw, what are the mental benefits? Is your memory much stronger? Can you concentrate on tasks for longer periods of time? Do you find yourself in better moods.

For me personally, the mental benefits are huge.

I don't know about the memory, I didn't pay attention because I don't really need a good memory to do what I do. But better concentration, yes, most definitely. I also have way more energy, both physical and intellectual. I don't get mentally tired anymore when I solve a problem or think about something.

And more than everything else, what totally amazed me when I went raw was the mental clarity. This is difficult to explain to someone who's never tried raw. It's like your head is full of fog, and when you go raw, the fog suddenly dissipates! I simply can think better now. My ideas are clearer and my thoughts more accurate. It feels like being sober after having been drunk for years.

(I didn't feel like there was anything wrong with my thinking before, just for the record. It's only after going raw that I realized how foggy my thinking had been before.)

Emotionally there is a difference too: better mood, and more emotional stability.

I cannot promise you'll have all those great benefits as well. For me going raw made a HUUUUUGE difference. I know someone who says that he feels no difference at all though. I guess it's different for everyone.

Maybe the difference is bigger when you are in bad shape and smaller when you already are in good shape? Just try it out, you'll see!

[Sivodna]

Originally Posted by alainplus

You're using an electrical box to talk to me. You probably drive a car. You probably go to a doctor when you're very sick to get yourself injected with pharmaceuticals. Is riding a bike natural? Is going camping natural? Come on. There's nothing natural about being human if you carefully look at human history. You think the humans building those pyramids were raving about the benefits of raw food on their blogs? If you want that kind of natural lifestyle, it's in the desolate Kalahari desert or the mosquito-filled Amazonian jungle. You know, I don't think Mozart ate raw food but his contributions to culture are still quite substantial. The same goes for the numerous scientists that have roamed this Earth. It's just food. It's not an elixir. It's not "natural". There's nothing natural about cutting down acres of forests to plant crops in straight lines. The current trend of the human population increase make it so that even the way we grow our food is extremely unnatural with increased pesticide use, increased use of fresh water, and increased used of oil etc., For the sake of just putting it out there. The word natural doesn't actually mean anything.


Is that legal?

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Who talked about seven avocados a day??

Besides, there's a big difference between weightlifting and bodybuilding. Don't confuse.

I find weightlifting very natural. The movements are the same as those you perform when you climb on trees, search for food outside, cultivate a garden, carry water, or build a wooden house. What's unnatural is sitting all day long doing desk jobs. In my eyes, raw diet + weightlifting is a very logical combination.

Also, who said you have to do two hours at the gym and then sit the rest of the time? It's very well possible to incorporate more small unities of exercise into your daily life. I personally never lift weights for more than 20-30 minutes in a row.

Originally Posted by James81

If you want to get technical, the raw food diet is probably not really all that natural either.

Our ancestors ate whatever they could find. Whether that meant that nice raw piece of fruit, nuts, or that nice quaint little buffalo standing out there looking like a steak.

They also had fire, and I'm sure they figured out that warming stuff up tasted better than eating it raw.

I'm not a bodybuilder or anything like that. I'm just sayin'.

Great posts

[Dreamline]

Our ancestors did not always cook their food. Our distant ancestors definitely didn't. Yes, they ate what they could find but cooking is a relatively recent development in human diet.

There is no diet more natural than a raw food diet. However, the average raw foodist's shopping list is probably not "natural" though because it includes, undoubtedly, many foods out of season and not locally grown. Which would epitomize natural. But the raw food diet, in and of itself, is as natural as you can get.

Ginkgo's last post is just plain contradictory and confusing. Not everyone who lifts weights, or "weight trains" is a bodybuilder. A ninety year old woman can weight train to keep healthy and strong but certainly couldn't be confused with a bodybuilder.

Basically, like any weightlifting/bodybuilding thread I have ever seen, there are about a dozen people talking about a dozen different things and then criticizing because they all assume each other should be talking about what THEY consider to be weightlifing/bodybuilding.

Can one be a successful raw foodist and heavy weight trainer? Of course! Is it practical? Depends on your definition of practical. That's about the only conclusion that can be reached here.

Jennifer

[Dreamline]

Originally Posted by alainplus

From those of you who have gone raw, what are the mental benefits? Is your memory much stronger? Can you concentrate on tasks for longer periods of time? Do you find yourself in better moods.

I see a lot of these claims in testimonials but as always, I like confirmation from actual people.

I'm not sure there were loads of mental benefits. I never felt there was an issue there even before I went raw. Mainly, I felt physically better. Energetic and clean. Lighter, I guess. That led to better moods.

Jennifer

[Rose of Cairo]

I agree with you that all this can be very confusing, Jennifer! This is what I have learned so far:

Bodybuilding is about the way you look. Bodybuilders want to have the biggest possible muscles and look as beautiful as possible. Well, according to their definition of beautiful. Whether you find bodybuilders beautiful or not is a matter of personal taste. I personally don't.

When bodybuilders are being judged during a competition, the way they train is not relevant - only the way they look. They also don't lift weights during the competition, they just display their appearance.

Powerlifting and weightlifting are sports. Unlike bodybuilding, they involve strength, but also explosive power, and a particular technique. The competitors lift weights in front of the jury and are judged on the weight they can lift, not on their appearance. The difference between powerlifting and weightlifting is the kind of exercises that are being performed. In powerlifting it's the squat, bench press and deadlift. In weightlifting it's the clean and jerk and the snatch.

And then there is the general term "weight training" or "strength training" or "resistance training" which simply means resisting something (gravity, a machine...) so that the muscles work out. There are all kinds of different strength trainings with all kinds of different goals, be it strength, big muscles, endurance, whatever. So that's very vague. I guess that's why we all talk about different things.

In my eyes there is a huge difference between bodybuilding and weightlifting: the goal: looking big or being strong. For example I train to grow strong, no matter how big my muscles look. If someone said I do bodybuilding, I'd say this is wrong.

The biggest looking guys aren't necessarily the strongest ones. Muscle strength also depends on the number of activated muscle fibers and their synchronization. If I'm not mistaken, the weights, numbers of reps and workout frequencies also are different for weightlifters and bodybuilders.

I can very well understand how someone would find the concept of bodybuilding "unnatural". But as I already said, I don't find weightlifting (or weight training with the goal of developing strength, not volume) unnatural.

[alainplus]

Started off putting too much green in my smoothies. What disaster! I don't mind chomping down on dozens of strawberries or a few bananas. But greens will take a while to get used to. I started off with Kale. I know it's healthy for me because I've been relentless in trying to make it palatable.

My breakdown is currently
50 - raw
50 - cooked

But I want to fully phase out cooked by the end of the month.

In any case, I've concluded that there's a high chance I'll lose weight with this diet (I'm 170 now). So I've resorted to stick with very low rep(1-3) weight training. I'll use this thread as a long-term log to help people who have questions about this in the future.

Here are my current 1-rep maxes:
Weight:170
Bench Press: 190 lbs
Squat(femur parallel to ground): 315
Full Squat: 200
Deadlift: 365

As an addendum, since I was also interested in memory, I'll also keep some observations on how the raw diet is helping with my Japanese studies.
1. I currently have learned 614 Japanese sentences and memorized their meanings. I learn about 20-30 a day.

The problem with memory is that it's extremely hard to gauge how outside factors improve it. Just the fact that I'm putting in a concerted effort into my studies will help my memory as the material I'm studying will get easier and easier. So essentially what I'm expecting from raw food is a noticeably BIG jump in my cognitive capabilities.