Never believed the dairy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ - well don't I look stupid now

[RagsToRiches]

I always thought the whole thing about dairy being bad was a pile of crap/hippe ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Well...

For the last 6 months I've had really bad throat problems. Excessive mucas in my throat, sore-throats in the mornings, and regulary chronic croaky/broken voice.

I tried all kinds of **** to solve. Drinking green tea with lemon and honey, olbas oil, cutting down alcohol to minimum, cutting out coffee, etc.

But for some reason I stood by my high cheese diet (see my recent post about eating cheaply). In-fact Cheese was a massive part of my diet and has been for about a year, I throw it on top of EVERYTHING just to increase the fat/protein content.

Well guess what... I cut it out two weeks ago. Actually I just replaced it with vedge/fruit because in an attempt to boost my immune system. Cutting out the cheese was just a coincedental side-effect.

Throat problems?

Gone.

Anyone having health issues like this, specifically which may we related to mucas production - try cutting out the dairy for a week.

[Hanselich]

Interesting. So you think you have some sort of milk allergy?

[aelle]

Rags, I react just like you to dairy. Sounds like some level of lactose intolerance to me - which almost all humans have, but don't get diagnosed because very few people quit dairy for long enough to realize their symptoms are abnormal... Well, good for you for finding this out and moving on to a healthier life!

[alainplus]

I used to drink about a 1/2 a gallon of milk a day to gain weight, but I'm also phasing it out as with all animal products. A lot of foods cause allergic reactions within the body that aren't detectable. So I'm just going to play it safe.

[Indy107]

Good for you for making the connection!

I was talking to a co-worker of mine (an Asian gal) and she told me whenever she drinks milk she gets stomach problems. I reminded her that most Asians are lactose intolerant - and suggested she probably just cannot digest milk. "Really?" she asked. She had never made the connection. Most people never do.

She's just like you were and the majority of the population. We were raised with milk. Everyone we know drinks it. The USDA ad FDA stand behind it - and what about all the commercials? "Milk - It Does a Body Good" , "It Builds Strong Bones and Teeth", "Got Milk?", ......marketing. It's all marketing designed to brainwash into thinking it's healthy for us. It's not.

I wrote a blog article on the subject some time ago - you can read it here if you want.
Milk - It Does A Body……Good? | Magic of Believing

[Jthorn]

Ok, that's interesting. But maybe it still is a mistake to pinpoint the problem on dairy?
Cutting out the cheese wasn't the only change you made. How certain are you the problem wasn't resolved thanks to your increased consumption of veggies and fruits?

Also cheese is too broad a term. What kind of cheese? There are countless varieties of cheese and made in all sorts of ways quality-wise. I don't know what your strategy of eating cheap involves, but most of the cheese I find on the supermarket seems no different than plastic to me.

[Jthorn]

Originally Posted by Indy107

Good for you for making the connection!

I was talking to a co-worker of mine (an Asian gal) and she told me whenever she drinks milk she gets stomach problems. I reminded her that most Asians are lactose intolerant - and suggested she probably just cannot digest milk. "Really?" she asked. She had never made the connection. Most people never do.

She's just like you were and the majority of the population. We were raised with milk. Everyone we know drinks it. The USDA ad FDA stand behind it - and what about all the commercials? "Milk - It Does a Body Good" , "It Builds Strong Bones and Teeth", "Got Milk?", ......marketing. It's all marketing designed to brainwash into thinking it's healthy for us. It's not.

I wrote a blog article on the subject some time ago - you can read it here if you want.
Milk - It Does A Body……Good? | Magic of Believing

So I take it that marketing has brainwashed us to the extent where women have grown breasts that produce milk and we 've been led to believe that this has always in the case, right?

Why don't you consider what kind of dairy we have nowadays? What animals it comes from, what they are fed and the conditions they live in. And how the milk itself is processed.

This is getting ridiculous. Instead of thinking critically, it's popular lately to label everything as not meant for digestion.

May I just remind you that people have been consuming dairy long before a big industry was made out of it. Sorry that this ruins your exciting conspiracy theory.

[joelyle]

...compared to other health risks.

Please read:

http://notmilk.com

The health risk of dairy is the largely unreported. The benefits of dairy rate as one of the largest frauds disseminated.

My family was a huge consumer of dairy. We now have three generations of prostate cancer.

Personally, the benefits of eliminating dairy:

Lower cholesterol
No occurrences of the common cold (past two winters)
Non-existence of congestion
No Constipation
No Heat burn (I used to have reflux daily – this could partly have been from drink excessive coffee).
Reduction in obesity – I have been losing 2-3 lbs. per month.
Much more relaxed

Do a 30-day trial and see how you feel.

[Daffy Duck]

Most of my dairy is in the morning when I have a bowl of cereal. Just a bit of whole milk. I've tried cutting dairy out of my diet completely for a few weeks and didn't notice any positive or negative results to my health or feelings. I don't think dairy -- in moderation -- is bad for a large many of us humans.

Too much dairy can definitely cause problems though. Personally if I drink too much milk in one day, it really screws around with my digestive system.

Originally Posted by joelyle

My family was a huge consumer of dairy. We now have three generations of prostate cancer.

Correlation does not imply causation... but maybe.

[Aware]

The only thing dairy's good for are the calfs it is made for.

[Indy107]

Originally Posted by Jthorn

So I take it that marketing has brainwashed us to the extent where women have grown breasts that produce milk and we 've been led to believe that this has always in the case, right?

Why don't you consider what kind of dairy we have nowadays? What animals it comes from, what they are fed and the conditions they live in. And how the milk itself is processed.

This is getting ridiculous. Instead of thinking critically, it's popular lately to label everything as not meant for digestion.

May I just remind you that people have been consuming dairy long before a big industry was made out of it. Sorry that this ruins your exciting conspiracy theory.

It's exactly because of the the dairy we have nowadays, the animals it comes from, what they are fed, and the conditions they live in that I DON'T consume dairy. You're absolutely right that we have been consuming dairy long before big industry got ahold of it. Back then it was called raw milk. No pesticides, hormones, or antibiotics. And all of the vitamins, minerals, and enzymes that made milk healthy for us were still intact. Sadly that's not the case anymore. No conspiracy theories. Just raw facts.

[gingerbaker]

My experience with dairy has been interesting LOL. Actually it's what led me to go raw, over time.

I always knew I had some sensitivity to dairy as a kid, but over the years I "grew out of it" or at least we all thought so. Growing up in a cheese and coffee (with milk) loving family, I ate quite a bit of dairy as an adult, and thought it was all good. However, with my second child I noticed (warning: poop discussion coming!) that her poop was very mucous-y. Her doctor pooh-poohed any thought that the dairy might be leading to this, dismissing my concerns as "that's how breastfed babies are", but I had already nursed one kiddo for quite some time, and while I know it is loose and not "firm" like for grownups, this was different. So I took it upon myself to cut out dairy, strictly, for a month. Meaning not even anythign that contained whey or casein as an ingredient (and this means many breads and all candy were out!)

Well. It solved my daughter's problems, poop-wise and tummy-wise, she was clearly happier. And...I found out the hard way that adding back cream into my coffee led to an EXTREMELY PAINFUL stomach upset (while out at Target with my inlaws of all places, lord help me!). I found with further investigation that eating things made with butter (say, cookies) or candy that contained milk-derived ingredients was possible, but had definite unpleasant side effects (read: I was not fun to hang around in the following hours ). Suffice it to say, my husband would complain LOL. And it also makes me break out, usually before the day is over even. It is very clearly linked to when I eat dairy, I've had countless times to test the cause and effect LOL.

How did this lead to me going raw, or at least trying to stay raw? Once I noticed how clearly dairy was affecting me, I found it easier to believe that other foods can have an effect on me. And that has definitely proven to be the case. In particular, I think wheat is a no-go for me, though I haven't tested it as a standalone cause and effect yet.

[Jthorn]

Originally Posted by Indy107

It's exactly because of the the dairy we have nowadays, the animals it comes from, what they are fed, and the conditions they live in that I DON'T consume dairy. You're absolutely right that we have been consuming dairy long before big industry got ahold of it. Back then it was called raw milk. No pesticides, hormones, or antibiotics. And all of the vitamins, minerals, and enzymes that made milk healthy for us were still intact. Sadly that's not the case anymore. No conspiracy theories. Just raw facts.

Sure, but that's different to what you told your friend, that she's not meant to digest milk.
I read your article; you do point out those facts, but also attack milk itself. Ie, humans are the only species that consume the milk of others and continue to do so when adult. Fair point, but incidentally, we 're also the species capable of much more than lying on grass all day.

Raw milk is still possible to find today, although it can be quite difficult. I believe that rather than demonising dairy, we should be demanding it in its proper state (and even taking matters in your hands, if you 're able to have your own land and animals).

[Indy107]

Originally Posted by Jthorn

Sure, but that's different to what you told your friend, that she's not meant to digest milk.
I read your article; you do point out those facts, but also attack milk itself. Ie, humans are the only species that consume the milk of others and continue to do so when adult. Fair point, but incidentally, we 're also the species capable of much more than lying on grass all day.

Raw milk is still possible to find today, although it can be quite difficult. I believe that rather than demonising dairy, we should be demanding it in its proper state (and even taking matters in your hands, if you 're able to have your own land and animals).

I don't think any of us are meant to digest milk once we are weaned. Over time we lose the necessary enzymes. That's just nature. Same with all the animals. But I especially don't think we were meant to digest it in the form it comes today (heavily processed - chemically laden - factory farmed crap)

I demonise the dairy industry for trying to trick us into thinking it's good for us - when it's not. But - they're just big business looking after their profits. Putting their profits before our health - all for a buck. I welcome the day when we as a people can go up against the big corporations and demand change. I'm not sure if that will ever happen - but we can hope.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Jthorn

Sure, but that's different to what you told your friend, that she's not meant to digest milk.
I read your article; you do point out those facts, but also attack milk itself. Ie, humans are the only species that consume the milk of others and continue to do so when adult. Fair point, but incidentally, we 're also the species capable of much more than lying on grass all day.

Raw milk is still possible to find today, although it can be quite difficult. I believe that rather than demonising dairy, we should be demanding it in its proper state (and even taking matters in your hands, if you 're able to have your own land and animals).

Are you criticizing the fact that Indy told his Asian friend that she was probably lactose intolerant? But it's a well researched fact that not all populations are equal when it comes to cow milk. Northern European populations were the ones who survived on a dairy based agriculture, and as a result of natural selection lactose is well tolerated in Scandinavian people. Black and Asian populations, among others, are in large parts lactose intolerant. Wikipedia has a summary of %tage per population here.

The racial bias is another of the evils of the dairy industry propaganda to think about...

[Savage]

It takes a long time for some adult humans to realize that they aren't baby cows after all.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

It takes a long time for some adult humans to realize that they aren't baby cows after all.

Indeed. It takes even longer for adult humans to realize that they're actually ducks! As you can tell by my username, I've already realized this.

You're close to your own realization, Steve. I see hints of it when you post. Heck, even right now in your signature, I see the words: "Then I duck."

Yes, you are Duck! Keep it up!

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Indeed. It takes even longer for adult humans to realize that they're actually ducks! As you can tell by my username, I've already realized this.

You're close to your own realization, Steve. I see hints of it when you post. Heck, even right now in your signature, I see the words: "Then I duck."

Yes, you are Duck! Keep it up!

Do I get credit for being labeled a quack?

[Jthorn]

Originally Posted by aelle

Are you criticizing the fact that Indy told his Asian friend that she was probably lactose intolerant? But it's a well researched fact that not all populations are equal when it comes to cow milk. Northern European populations were the ones who survived on a dairy based agriculture, and as a result of natural selection lactose is well tolerated in Scandinavian people. Black and Asian populations, among others, are in large parts lactose intolerant. Wikipedia has a summary of %tage per population here.

The racial bias is another of the evils of the dairy industry propaganda to think about...

Needless to say, populations grew their tolerance to dairy by consuming it. And I believe it would be interesting to study people's dietary habits and their cultural achievements. Or would that be racist?

We 're not baby cows, we 're superior. There's a lot of wrong with our food today for sure, but no matter how you slice it, something has set us apart from the rest of the animals. Something that is often lacking from diet discussions is info on nutrition of the brain. I 've seen a lot of subjective claims to extraordinary mental benefits by vegans but no objective, quantifiable proof. On the other hand, I look at the chess world and I see none of the top players being vegan, ever.

[Creative]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

You're close to your own realization, Steve. I see hints of it when you post. Heck, even right now in your signature, I see the words: "Then I duck."

Yes, you are Duck! Keep it up!

hahahahaa Daffy you have just made my day!

I think the way dairy is produced is a real ethical issue. I became vegan recently and feel no different to when I was vegetarian. However I didn't really each that much dairy to begin with- so who knows? Dairy most definitely does increase mucus production- I always used to avoid dairy when I had a cold or cough. It's an Indian thing

[Indy107]

Originally Posted by Jthorn

Needless to say, populations grew their tolerance to dairy by consuming it. And I believe it would be interesting to study people's dietary habits and their cultural achievements. Or would that be racist?

So just because 'it's there' - we as a population should increase our tolerance - just so we can 'consume' it? Does it really, really, need to be consumed? At all? Except when we are babies?

As far as cultural acheivments and dietary habits - how about Asia? Their cultural achievments are living longer, less cancer, less heart disease, less obesity, .......
and their diet? Less dairy, less McDonalds, less meat, more vegetables, more fish.... I think The China Study goes into a lot more detail....

[sirkinm]

Originally Posted by Indy107

As far as cultural acheivments and dietary habits - how about Asia? Their cultural achievments are living longer, less cancer, less heart disease, less obesity, .......
and their diet? Less dairy, less McDonalds, less meat, more vegetables, more fish.... I think The China Study goes into a lot more detail....

A lot of Asians haven't historically consumed milk, it's true. Though my friend spent time in Nepal, and they drank a lot of buffalo milk.

[Indy107]

Originally Posted by sirkinm

A lot of Asians haven't historically consumed milk, it's true. Though my friend spent time in Nepal, and they drank a lot of buffalo milk.

Buffalo Milk? Uh.....wow......ok.......I cannot imagine............and how on earth do you MILK A BUFFALO?

Very carefully

[Jthorn]

Originally Posted by Indy107

So just because 'it's there' - we as a population should increase our tolerance - just so we can 'consume' it? Does it really, really, need to be consumed? At all? Except when we are babies?

If it does provide benefits, why should we not? They do say that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger afterall.

As far as cultural acheivments and dietary habits - how about Asia? Their cultural achievments are living longer, less cancer, less heart disease, less obesity, .......
and their diet? Less dairy, less McDonalds, less meat, more vegetables, more fish.... I think The China Study goes into a lot more detail....

You 're thinking of the present. I 'm thinking of the Renaissance. I don't see the equivalent outside Europe.

[Antarananda]

Originally Posted by Jthorn

Why don't you consider what kind of dairy we have nowadays? What animals it comes from, what they are fed and the conditions they live in. And how the milk itself is processed.

This is getting ridiculous. Instead of thinking critically, it's popular lately to label everything as not meant for digestion.

QFT. There is absolutely nothing unnatural about consuming milk (or honey). They are both excellent vegetarian foods.

Milk does have a tendency to aggravate formation of mucus in the body, but cheese is much worse. In fact, as per Ayurveda, cheese (aged, not fresh like cottage cheese) has a unique property which blocks subtle channels in the body - best avoided. Milk should always be drunk at room temperature or warm, never in combination with fruits, and never when one has symptoms of congestion or a cold.

Incidentally, when I've lived in the US, I always suffer from symptoms of lactose intolerance from drinking organic milk. I didn't try drinking raw milk regularly. The US farms process (homogenize) milk in a way which renders it difficult to digest. When I'm in India, I never have any digestive issues. Oh, I can also get fresh milk straight from the cow, delivered to my door in India, if I so wish.


Here is the Ayurvedic perspective on milk.

[gingerbaker]

Originally Posted by Indy107

Does it really, really, need to be consumed? At all? Except when we are babies?

Just thought I'd point out, babies don't need cow milk, they need mama milk.

[Gazi]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

It takes a long time for some adult humans to realize that they aren't baby cows after all.

It always takes awfully long time to understand unbelievably simple things. _ Joe Chung

[Indy107]

Originally Posted by gingembre

Just thought I'd point out, babies don't need cow milk, they need mama milk.

Well of course!

[Indiana]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I have dairy quite frequently - organic yoghurt in a smoothie every morning, trim milk in an espresso coffee about four times a week, and parmesan or fresh mozzarella in dinners about three times a week. Does goat cheese count? Because I have that quite often too.

My digestive system is great, no mucus problems and I'm not overweight at all. Just wanted to point out that it's not universally problematic.

[jaamkie]

using the word "natural" vs "unnatural" is just silly, but it is true that until relatively recently humans/pre-humans didn't drink milk as adults (or non-human milk in childhood), so many populations have not (yet) evolved the ability to digest lactose as an adult, and more subtle negative effects might also still occur even for lactose-tolerant individuals- because we haven't consistently consumed non-human dairy long enough to fully adapt to it. also of course any health effects may be overwhelmed by the simple overabundance of calories and sedentary lifestyles which are also so far from our evolutionary past (also of course dairy as consumed today is not equivalent to past dairy consumption, but difficult to judge the effect of chemicals, hormones, and recent selective breeding).

and I'd note, aside from the discussion of dairy's effects on human health, for many of us there are more important motivating factors in avoiding dairy- environmental impacts and the suffering of dairy cattle (and their veal male offspring) in modern factory farms. I don't consume dairy to reduce my environmental footprint and as an ethical judgement, but the ethical judgement is predicated on the fact that dairy is not essential to a healthy human diet, so I am not sacrificing my health for the environment/animals (just a bit of gustatory pleasure, which I miss much less than I'd expected).