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05-25-2009, 04:51 AM
| #1 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
 |  Beautiful Fast Greetings to all. This is to be a fast consisting of distilled water only and I have completed almost 2 days so far. To this moment, this fast has been easier than any i can remember. Very little hunger to this point at a time when my hunger would generally be at its strongest. Perhaps the 80 days of immensely nutritious eating leading to this immediately following a ten day fast has made the difference. The hope: A fast to completion (until the return of ferocious genuine hunger which in itself is something i'd love to experience even if only once). I normally have fasted for only 7 or 8 days with a couple of tens and 14 being the longest, but this time around (should i fall short of my hope), i would like to see at least 21 days. The previous fasts have been done "on my own" with nothing but worry-warts in my path and limited information, but the water fasting forum in curezone has helped me to feel very comfortable and confident in the idea of going quite a bit deeper. As an example, if i come down with some nasty nausia, i will know now to continue through it. Fasting to completion would be such an awesome thing  . As per the inspiration from chrisb1 (again from curezone) i intend to do 2 things differently compared to all of my other fasts. Will drink only to thirst (distilled water of course) as opposed to perhaps drinking 2x that amount in the past... and will do this fast without enemas. Goals: Spiritual: In any fast, i always want to deepen my relationship with God and enhance certain spiritual disciplines. I also look forward to the mental and emotional benefits which i am fully confident to encounter. Physical: As always, i love the amazing cleanse that takes place and a fast to completion will bring by far the most amazing cleanse yet among many good ones. Additionally, i would like to reach 10% body fat or even 8%. With a starting weight of 192, i believe 180 would put me at 10-12% body fat and 175 would put me at 8-10%. While eating, i was enjoying workouts that consisted of high intensity cardio "every other" day with some form of muscle strengthening exercises the days in between. A part of what this fast will accomplish is giving my heart, lungs and all other muscles a nice long rest to fully recover and be ready for more furious/intense activity soon thereafter which i really enjoy and look forward to . I also led into this fast with 7 days of mercury removal protocol (thank you so much mercury fillings), primarily consisting of chlorella followed 30 minutes later with cilantro...twice per day. I also enjoyed 30 days of live carrot/beet/celery juice (8-32 oz per day) as a part of my normal meal plan leading to this fast. The plan: During this fast, i plan to engage in 2 hours of brisk walking per day, (1 hour in the morning and 1 hour at sunset), or the equivalent level on a bicycle, trampoline, kayak or in slow (carefully controlled) uphill hiking to replace the high intensity cardio and a lot of gentle stretching to replace the weights and isometrics. I intend to keep within 60-65% of max heart rate compared to peaks of 90-92% pre-fast (as per my handy heart rate monitor). With this 2 hours of light exercise along with my bmr, i anticipate fully 0.7 - 1 pound of fat loss per day... starting at 1 pound and dropping to 0.7 towards the end as my metabolism gets slower and slower (I believe it is especially high now because of the high intensity workouts leading to the fast, but expect it to drop swiftly, perhaps more than that of the average person who was not doing the high intensity cardio). I anticipate 12 pounds of fat loss in 14 days which would bring me to 180 in real weight and 17 pounds of fat loss in 22 days which would bring me to 175... though i know i will probably weigh about 155-158 temporarily with about 17-20 pounds of temporary expected loss of water and the other temporaries, weight which i fully expect to have back within 2 or maybe 3 weeks . An end weight of 175-180 after 2-3 weeks of refeeding would be awesome... i will have to get closer to goal before having the best idea of where i optimally belong. I also plan daily to lay in the sun a bit, brush my skin, and enjoy nice warm baths which i pretty much only do when fasting, opting otherwise for showers ... and to agressively massage various imperfect areas including a left ankle that is perfectly fine unless i stretch it a certain way, in which case there is a fair amount of pain. By the fast's end, when i stretch that ankle, i want it to feel good . There is also a soreness at the bottom of my right foot that i expect to be feeling all the way better within 3 more days. The paradox is that it hurts while i walk on it for 2 hours a day, but having so much confidence in the power of fasting, i expect the pain to go away in spite of this. As with the previous fast, i fully intend upon refeeding to enjoy only healthy, nutritious foods and to therefore not gain an ounce of this fat back (also a goal that was achieved in the previous fast). Last edited by MightySunTzu; 05-25-2009 at 08:17 AM. |
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05-25-2009, 07:12 AM
| #2 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 128
| Quote:
I like fasting, I think it's cool. Beneficial when done occasionally and for positive reasons. I just wanted to respond quickly about not gaining the weight back. I just recently read this book called "The Leptin Diet", and it explains that the hormone leptin which controls appetite is responsible for making you "gain the weight back". Since you body perceived that it was in a state of starvation (ok, as a fellow faster I realize that you weren't starving, but the body still registers a lack of food and therefore it slows down the metabolism) once you decide to stop fasting your body will try to convert all of the food you eat into fat because of the perceived starvation risk. This is purely biological and I doubt there is much you can do to prevent the gaining of fat. So I just wanted to let you know that the body fat percentage goal isn't a great one (at least not from fasting). But I do wish you the best of luck in your fast and I hope it's a fun journey XD | |
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05-25-2009, 08:09 AM
| #3 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| Quote:
I thank you for your positive wishes. With respect, this part of your quote is quite false: Quote:
I already fasted (most recently for 10 days, a fast that ended 80 days ago) without a return of the fat i lost, not a single ounce of it. You are right that during the fast the metabolism will slow (and there's nothing i know of that will prevent this)... and you are right that post-fast calories taken in excess of those burned would be stored as fat. But that's true whether a person fasts or not. It's a matter of knowing that the metabolism has slowed (by about 20%) in the fast and of eating accordingly as the metabolism gradually returns to normal over about 6 weeks following the fast. Whether we fasted or not, if we eat only that which we burn, there will be no excess calories to be stored as fat. | ||
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05-25-2009, 10:43 AM
| #4 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 3,747
| Keep us posted on this every few days on this thread. Starvation starts when fasting ends. Fasting ends with true hunger. You already know this so it was for the other poster. My website on fasting has quotes by 19 different MDs on fasting plus a quote about fasting by the New England Journal of Medicine. I will fetch the quote about when starvation begins. My site has a psychiatrist (all are MDs)(Dr Alan Cott) that has a best selling book on fasting. He says that the fatter someone is, the less their metabolism slows down while fasting. I need mine to slow down during fasting since I have always been thin. Dr Fuhrman, M.D. had a broken foot and the doctors said he would never skate again. He fasted for 42 days and went back to pro skating. Anticipation is bad. Oprah's guru (Tolle) says to be in the present, not the future. There is a classic book called Be Here Now. Even Jesus says to let the future worry about itself. Fuhrman never fasts anyone more than 50 days in case you have not reached true hunger by then. Of course with him, people want to get back to their daily living and they pay him over $100 a day to be at his place and be supervised by him on Fasting. I have fasted for 22 days and did not reach true hunger. My body wanted me to fast longer. I did it that long since many Christians do it for spiritual reasons and do it for 21 days so I beat all of them. Gabriel Cousins, M.D. is another psychiatrist that fasts people. He promotes the spiritual benefits. The less toxins that you have been consuming makes the fast easier. All the fasters, including the psychiatrists say that the hunger is all mental and it is a false hunger unlike true hunger. Whether someone gains the weight back or not depends on what they do after the fast. But that is the same anytime, right? I forgot to mention that Gabriel Cousins M.D. has a few books on eating like Conscious Eating and he recommends an all raw diet. Here is the quote about starvation: "Hereward Carrington, M.D. wrote a book called Vitality, Fasting and Nutrition. He says 'fasting is a scientific method of ridding the system of diseased tissues, and morbid matter, and is invariably accompanied by beneficial results....The whole secret is this: fasting commences with the omission of the first meal and ends with the return of natural hunger, while starvation only begins with the return of natural hunger and terminates in death.' Natural hunger is the body saying that it is time to stop the fast since it is all clean." Last edited by ginkgo; 05-25-2009 at 06:55 PM. |
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05-25-2009, 04:26 PM
| #6 (permalink) | ||||||||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| [COLOR="Navy"][COLOR="Navy"][COLOR="Navy"] Quote:
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Yes, when fasting to completion it is quite essential to recognize the symptoms of a completed fast! From what i have read and otherwise heard, "a return of true hunger" is quite overwhelming and unmistakable. I want to experience it in the same way another person might want to climb Mount Everest. This girl (kelly jones)fasted and encountered it in day 23. She describes the feeling in the first 2 minutes of her youtube video: YouTube - day21-24 of 30day water fast... This is one post that graphically describes it as well... from somebody who has both read plenty of information on the subject and indeed experienced a return of genuine hunger himself. After fasting 25 days without it (and curing lieukemia i might add), he had a 40 day refeeding period and then fasted another 30 days before experiencing it. Re: Question about true hunger. at Fasting: Water Fast Support Forum And some exerps from Shelton on the subject: [(Breaking the Fast with the genuine return of Natural Hunger) Shelton. The Breath, which during all or most of the fast has been offensive, becomes sweet and clean. The Tongue becomes clean. The thick coating which remained on it throughout most of the fast vanishes. The Temperature, which may have been sub-normal or above normal, returns to exactly normal, where it remains. The Pulse becomes normal in time and rhythm. The Skin reactions and other reactions become normal. The Bad Taste in the mouth ceases. Salivary Secretion becomes normal. The Eyes become bright and eye sight improves. The Excreta loses its odor. The Urine becomes light. The primary indication that the fast is to be broken is the return of hunger; all the other indications are secondary. Often one or more of these secondary signs are absent when hunger returns, but one should not refrain from breaking the fast when there is an unmistakable demand for food, merely because the tongue, for example, is not clean. Inasmuch as all the signs do not invariably appear in each case, do not hesitate to break the fast when hunger returns.][/QUOTE] Quote:
Might you post your website on fasting too? I should like to have a peek Quote:
. Haha, that title: "FASTING: The Ultimate Diet: LOSE UP TO 5 POUNDS ON A ONE DAY FAST". If i remember correctly, he explains in the book about the 5 pounds in one day nonsense in the title, paraphrased: "oh yeah, of course it's mostly water weight, but i got you to buy the book, didn't i?". I also read his 2nd book on the subject which is called "Fasting: A way of life". A much better title . Quote:
And whatever slowing takes place does so gradually and consistently. While the level to which metabolism slows will certainly vary from person to person, I believe i read that (in general) within 7 days it has slowed by about 10% and within 21 days it has slowed by about 20% and won't get much slower than this as the percentage of decrease becomes smaller and smaller each day. As long as we refeed with this reduced metabolism in mind, we can keep ourselves out of fat gain trouble. Dr Fuhrman, M.D. had a broken foot and the doctors said he would never skate again. He fasted for 42 days and went back to pro skating.[/QUOTE] ... and he went on to become an M.D. with an emphasis on fasting. He wrote a good book called "Fasting and Eating For Health". He later embraced a 2nd emphasis which is nutrition and wrote a book called "Eat to Live". Did you know that Fuhrman fasted under Shelton's supervision... as did 40,000 other people? Quote:
). But if i get to 30 days and i'm still feeling great, i will likely continue a day at a time, paying careful attention to what my body is telling me. If genuine hunger is to take 50 days (which is typical as i understand it), i will likely do it over 2 fasts with a 3 month refeeding period in between. Optimal health is the highest of all priorities herein. I'm not the least bit interested in running out of any essential nutrients... but i would truly delight in achieving genuine hunger before 30 days go by  .Quote:
 . I wasn't aware that many Christians pursued a 21 day goal. In any case, I wish you well with that chip  .Quote:
You didn't really believe you lost 20 pounds of fat in 7 days, right? Quote:
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Last edited by MightySunTzu; 05-26-2009 at 04:43 AM. | ||||||||||
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05-25-2009, 05:45 PM
| #7 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| Quote:
I recently posted this in another thread: "The Physiological Changes of Fasting Many of the most dramatic changes that occur in the body during fasting take place on the first three days of the fast. These occur as the body switches from one fuel source to another. Normally, the primary form of energy the body uses for energy is glucose, a type of sugar. Most of this is extracted or converted from the food we eat. Throughout the day, the liver stores excess sugar in a special form called glycogen that it can call on as energy levels fall between meals. There is enough of this sugar source for 8-12 hours of energy and usually, it is completely exhausted within the first 24 hours of fasting. (However, once the body shifts over to ketosis or fat as fuel, this new fuel is used to also restore the body's glycogen reserves.) Once the liver's stores of glycogen are gone, the body begins to shift over to what is called ketosis or ketone production - the use of fatty acids as fuel instead of glucose. This shift generally begins on the second day of fasting and completed by the third. In this interim period there is no glucose available and energy from fat conversion is insufficient but the body still needs fuel. So it accesses glucose from two sources. It first converts glycerol, available in the body's fat stores, to glucose but this is still insufficient. So it makes the rest that it needs from catabolizing, or breaking down, the amino acids in muscle tissue, using them in the liver for gluconeogenesis, or the making of glucose. Between 60 and 84 grams of protein are used on this second day, 2-3 ounces of muscle tissue. By the third day ketone production is sufficient to provide nearly all the energy the body needs and the body's protein begins to be strongly conserved. The body still needs a tiny amount of glucose for some functions, however, so a very small amount of protein, 18-24 grams, is still catabolized to supply it - from 1/2 to 1 ounce of muscle tissue per day. Over a 30 day water fast a person generally loses a maximum of 1-2 pounds of muscle mass." from The Health Benefits of Water Fasting. In any case, fasting is indeed a protein sparing activity. To fast for 30 days and lose only 1-2 pounds of muscle is to me a small price to pay for the phenomenal benefits that will be derived, cleansing and otherwise... along with about 15-20 pounds of actual fat loss... and gaining that muscle back will be easy, especially with the fasters newly detoxified super-charged body. Last edited by MightySunTzu; 05-25-2009 at 05:49 PM. | |
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05-25-2009, 06:53 PM
| #8 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 3,747
| All that stuff was copied off of my webpage on fasting which I created from scratch. My website was given in my first post. Just look for the fasting that is blue and underlined. Yes I know all that stuff. My website has Dr Fuhrman's book advertised on it. He went to UPenn medical school which is near me. Also I have read and own Dr Shelton's 400 page book on fasting. That is where many of those quotes are from. Also I have read some newsletters that are sent between Fuhrman and the group he belongs to of professional fasters. They are about unusual things that come up. It is obvious that fasting is natural but drugs (medications) are not. So the more they are used, the harder it becomes for the body to do natural things like fasting. Yes 20 years after Cott's first book, they republished the 2 books together in one book and that is what I have. Is that what you have? The 2nd one talks about the vegetarian diet. That site that copied that article from my site says that it is by Dr Cott, but it refers to Dr Cott in the 3rd person. Last edited by ginkgo; 05-25-2009 at 07:41 PM. |
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05-26-2009, 04:49 AM
| #9 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| Quote:
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. 2.9 days now and all is well. | ||
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05-26-2009, 07:15 AM
| #10 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 3,747
| I read on this forum where someone would steal someone else's blog posts. That would be like me stealing Steve's 30 raw diet and saying that I did it. There is a site about helping back problems. A guy took my story off of my website and added it to his saying it was by "name withheld." I think that the ethics of Americans are terrible since they do not believe in karma. They believe that you can be terrible your whole life and then accept Jesus in the last minute and it is all OK. I think America has a much higher crime rate than any other country. The police in England do not need to carry guns. As far as a fast being protein sparing, Shelton says that the body prefers to consume diseased muscle (like cancer) or poorly formed muscle before fat. The body consumes what it deems to be the worst thing for a person's health first. The same with addressing problems in the body. A person is only as healthy as their weakest link. Mahatma Gandhi fasted a lot and died at age 89. But he was shot and killed. |
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05-26-2009, 06:00 PM
| #11 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
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[SIZE="2"][SIZE="1"] Quote:
From what i have read on the subject, diseased (protein) tissue certainly gets consumed before healthy (protein) tissue but that fat is burned preferentially as fuel. In ketosis, i don't believe the body has a choice. But a certain (relatively small) amount of protein is burned at every stage of the fast and to be sure, the body takes the most diseased of it first. Shelton from "An Introduction to Natural Hygiene": p. 71 "Nature always favors the most vital organs. Thus fat disappears first and then the other tissues in the inverse order of their usefulness and importance in the organism. During the fast the diseased tissues are broken down and absorbed rapidly. Fasting promotes exorption of exudates, effusions and deposits in a manner that nothing else will" Last edited by MightySunTzu; 05-26-2009 at 06:03 PM. | |
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05-26-2009, 08:37 PM
| #12 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 128
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Wow salut to the fasting experts. There is so much info on this post about fasting. I certainly will follow this thread with much interest. I am not at all a good faster. I have tried twice 1 day fast and did feel pretty good afterward but I love food and all the activities and social aspect of it so I find it is hard to stick with a fast for long. Can I ask the experts a few questions. How do you handle the mental aspect of fasting. ie. Do you miss food or have any craving? what do you do with social activities? do you simply don't go out for the duration of the fast? Is there any activities that you purposely set out to do to get your mind off food? Do you still doing your normal daily activities such as working and running errants or you go on some sort of holiday mode? Good luck and keep up the good work. |
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05-27-2009, 01:04 AM
| #13 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 3,747
| It is in the book The Science and Fine Art of Fasting. It is 400 pages of tiny print. Now I have marked the pages with good things on it but that is many pages. So I will look. Shelton did not fast people who wanted to be thinner or healthier. He fasted people that the doctor said had no chance of living. Now during the fast, the body takes over. What are people's goals in life? Is it to be rich, find a partner, be admired, be talented or be happy? The body takes over during the fast and it has only one goal. That is to survive. So it anaylses every cell in the body and it fixes what is the most extreme emergency. In fact if you have a group of extremely sick people that the doctor says will not live long, then just living normally, many would die in the next month. But on a fast (done right) it is rare for these very sick people to die. Maybe you want to look thin to impress the babes but the body does not care about that. It only cares about its survival. This means that it has to fix whatever is the most immediate threat to a person's life. I am an herbalist but I tell people that herbs do not heal the body. They nourish the body. Now a fast does not heal the body. What does it do according to Shelton. It gives the body a rest unlike any other rest. Then what does heal the body? Only the body can heal the body (itself). Last edited by ginkgo; 05-27-2009 at 01:10 AM. |
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05-27-2009, 01:46 AM
| #14 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 3,747
| Quote:
So he says to do nothing. But you do the activites that you enjoy. If you are Governor Switzer then you pay a hooker $80,000 to spend an hour with you. I bet he was not thinking about food during that time. If you are the mayor of DC, Mayor Marion Barry, then you use crack cocaine to keep your mind off of food. Now if you are a Christian, then you read the bible. If you are Tiger Woods, then you play golf. If you are John McEnroe, then you play tennis. If you are Adam Lambert (lost in American Idol final), then you sing. | |
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05-27-2009, 04:45 AM
| #15 (permalink) | |||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| Hey there angies, Quote:
Welcome to the post . Hopefully before we're done, you'll see a lot more information yet . Quote:
. What's not to love? I am no exception and i'm betting that neither is ginkgo.... and nor is Jesus for that matter . I would say the primary difference between somebody who fasts a lot longer than somebody else is that they make a very strong commitment to it. It's easy to get tempted to stop... and the person with the strong commitment won't... or at least won't as soon. Another element is a person can become a stronger faster through experience. My very first fast of "2 days and 5 hours" seemed like the hardest thing i ever did in my life. Then a month later 3 days wasn't so tough, then 5, then 10. Learning about it can make a person stronger too. Knowing all of the good that is going on in your body (and mind, soul and emotions) and being excited about it makes it quite a bit easier to resist the formidable temptation of food. I suppose it comes down to coming to a place within yourself where the fast is more important to you than any food temptation. The temptation can be so strong that it might be compared to being faithful to your wife when you have a sea of opportunities to cheat on her (or even just one). As to the social activities with food, i enjoy going, but i just don't eat... and no amount of "peer pressure" will change that... and i tell you the truth, there can be a lot of it. People with good intentions really believe they are doing you a favor if they can get you to eat, but not knowing whatsoever the reasons you have for wanting to fast and the phenomenal benefits you will receive. Often times, even if i "wanted to" break the fast i couldn't, because i am a big believer in the essential aspect of "easing out of the fast very gently" to gradually reawaken your hibernating digestive system... with 1 day of live juice (and some fresh veg. broth) for every 4 days of water and then 1 day of fruits and vegetables (about 90% live) for every 4 days of water+juice. So if i am 7 days into a fast and go to a barbeque, however tempting those beef ribs might be, there's no way i would be so undisciplined as to eat them. My digestive system simply wouldn't be ready for this (nor even something quite a bit simpler) and I would be deeply commited to drinking juice for 2 days before even biting into a grape. And it's not that a grape would harm me... but it would be quite easy for one's appetite to run wild at this stage. Too much fruit (or vegetables) too early can get you into trouble, but juice is so exceedingly digestively simple that it would be very difficult to overtax your system with it. Quote:
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Another limitation as i mentioned above is that I greatly relax the intensity of my cardio and eliminate any weight lifting. I also avoid lifting 50 pound bags of cement. Quite literally, i avoided that today as some cement work was being done at my house and part of me wanted to help. I would be able to lift it, yes, but it would be a very bad idea in a fast... far too strenuous. If my work involved heavy lifting, i wouldn't opt to fast... I would, however, fast on friday/saturday/sunday and juice fast/feast monday through thursday. The first day of a water fast a person will generally still be plenty strong. I experimented in one fast with intense cardio and actually was able to do it for the first 4 days, but felt really wound up at bedtime (not unlike being overly caffeinated)... my heart rate was revved up instead of being delightfully relaxed the way a fast normally makes it... and was still amped when i awoke the next morning. These symptoms convinced me to take it easy with brisk walking being the upper limit. Last edited by MightySunTzu; 05-27-2009 at 08:41 PM. | |||||
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05-28-2009, 06:20 PM
| #16 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| Well ok, we're at 5.5 days now and everything is fine. I continue to walk (or bike or rake pine needles) 2 hours per day and have even built up a 45 minute surplus so i can rest if ever i feel weak . Actually i feel kind of strong today, though i still don't plan to abuse it by lifting any 50 pound bags of cement... and my mental clarity seems to be quite good. With a couple of exceptions, any feeling of appetite has generally been mild and quite easy to resist. The light headedness throughout the fast has been infrequent and most of the time i can pop up quickly from a sitting position without incident. (I think about it before i do it, if i feel it will be fine, i proceed). Skin feels very soft and smooth. Drinking only to thirst and i am becomming less thirsty (requiring a lesser amount of water each day). No nasty symptoms like headaches, heartburn (yet), or nausia. I do anticipate heartburn at some point, but perhaps i will get lucky and it will pass me by. It would be great to not encounter nausia, but i don't want to be too wishful in my thinking . That seems to be a pretty common development for people some time after 20 days as the body reaches another level of cleansing.Oh, the right foot no longer hurts and the more serious left ankle pain (only when stretching it a certain way) is beginning to feel decidedly better. Also, a tiny growth under my left eye is shrinking... seems to be drying up from the inside. To reiterate what i said before, i am kind of anticipating a 21-30 day fast, hoping to encounter a return of genuine hunger within that timeframe. If i go beyond 30 days, i will be surprised, though it does remain a distinct possibility. Weight log at 5.5 days: Scale weight and "estimated real weight" upon start of fast: 192 Scale weight today: 180 Estimated real weight today: 187.2 Overall weight loss (which means nothing to me): 12 Estimated real weight loss: 4.8 Estimated temporary weight loss, water, intestinal content and other: 7.2 Real weight goal: 180 would be excellent, 175 would perhaps be phenomenal. Last edited by MightySunTzu; 05-28-2009 at 06:47 PM. |
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05-29-2009, 08:27 AM
| #18 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 3,747
| Here are some things from Shelton's book mentioned above. P 79-- "For example, tissues are lost in the inverse order of their usefulness-- fat and morbid growths first, and then the other tissues." A 21 year old woman had a hard lump in her breast that caused her great pain for 4 months. They suspected that it was cancer. In 3 days of fasting, the lump and pain were gone. Page 85-- "It is generally held by men with wide experience with the fast that abnormal tissues are broken down and eliminated more rapidly than normal tissue during periods of abstinence." Note that fat is adipose tissue. It would be just plain stupid for the body to get rid of fat while other tissue causes the person to die. Right? If tissue is infected with a dangerous infection, the fast consumes that tissue and infection first. My website tells how I had an infection that the dentist said could enter my brain and kill me, but fasting got rid of it, faster than it could burn up fat. Last edited by ginkgo; 05-29-2009 at 08:36 AM. |
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05-29-2009, 04:19 PM
| #19 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
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Well you're partly right and your Shelton quotes are accurate, but i'm afraid you are drawing the wrong conclusions from this information. I would love to believe that the body will completely burn up all disease before fat, but it just isn't the way it works. The body will simultaneously burn fat and a much lesser amount of tissue (protein tissue)... and preferentially take the worst, most diseased protein tissue first before any other protein... but not instead of fat. Within this set of "rules", yes your body would burn up your infection very quickly, while it is burning fat as well. This is a fuller account of the information i found in Shelton's writings "The hygienic system, fasting and sun bathing vol III" From chapter 5, "Autolysis": "The phenomena of fasting supply many examples of the control the body exercises over its autolytic processes. For example, tissues are lost in the inverse order of their usefulness--fat and morbid growths first [i interpret this as meaning "simultaneously"], and then the other tissues. No more profound change in metabolism is possible than that produced by fasting and the change is of a character best suited to bring about the autolysis of a tumor, malignant or otherwise. Due to a variety of circumstances, some known, others unknown, the rate of absorption of tumors in fasting individuals varies. The general condition of the patient, the amount of surplus contained in [h]is body, the kind of tumor, the hardness or softness of the tumor, the location of the tumor and the age of the patient are all known to influence the rate of tumor absorption. Let me cite two extreme cases to show the wide range of variation in this respect. A woman, under forty, had a uterine fibroid about the size of an average grapefruit. It was completely absorbed in twenty-eight days of total abstinence from all food but water. This was an unusually rapid rate of absorption." In this 28 day timeframe, enough protein was burned up to eliminate the entire grapefruit sized tumor (about a pound), while the patient is likely to have burned off 10-15 pounds of fat as this was taking place. Shelton: "Another case is that of a similar tumor in a woman of about the same age. In this case the growth was about the size of a goose egg. One fast of twenty-one days reduced the tumor to the size of an English walnut. The fast was broken due to the return of hunger. Another fast a few weeks subsequent, of seventeen days, was required to complete the absorption of the tumor. This was an unusually slow rate of tumor-absorption." In this 21 day timeframe, enough protein was burned up to eliminate about 3 ounces of this tumor while the patient is likely to have burned off 7-12 pounds of fat. It took another 17 day fast to eliminate the remainder of that tumor (perhaps 2 ounces of protein) as the body burned another 6-10 pounds of fat. Though Shelton cites this as an example of being unusually slow, even the fastest burning tumors (as in the example of the grapefruit over 28 days) burn considerably slower than the body's primary fuel souce in ketosis which is fat. The the primary source of fuel (fat) and the secondary source of fuel (protein) are taken simultaneously in a proportion of about 10:1. Shelton continues: "Tumor-like lumps in female breasts ranging from the size of a pea to that of a goose egg will disappear in from three days to as many weeks. Here is a remarkable case of this kind that will prove both interesting and instructive to the reader. A young lady, age 21, had a large, hard lump--a little smaller than a billiard ball--in her right breast. For four months it had caused her considerable pain. Finally she consulted a physician who diagnosed the condition, cancer, and urged immediate removal. She went to another, and another and still another physician, and each made the same diagnosis and each urged immediate removal. Instead of resorting to surgery the young lady resorted to fasting and in exactly three days without food, the "cancer" and all its attendant pain were gone. There has been no recurrence after twenty-three years and I think that we are justified in considering the condition remedied." This growth was small enough (perhaps 3-4 ounces) and apparently "unhardened" enough, to be eliminated within 3 days, an amount of protein the fasting body would be expected to burn in that timeframe. Ketosis at this point has barely kicked in. Shelton continues: "Let me cite a comparatively recent instance from my own practice. A manufacturer brought his wife to me from Los Angeles. A growth in one of her breasts had caused her to consult two or three physicians in that city. Each of them had insisted upon the immediate removal of her breast. I placed her upon a fast which was continued for thirty days. At the end of the fast, the tumor, which was about the size of an English walnut at its beginning, had been reduced to the size of a pea. In less than a month on a vegetable and fruit diet this small remainder disappeared." This particular tumor was so stubborn, it was only about 2 ounces in size and took 30 days to eliminate 95% of it. How much fat was burned over this 30 day period? Here again, a notable and absolute contradiction to your contention that diseased tissue will be burned up preferentially before fat. Last edited by MightySunTzu; 05-29-2009 at 09:33 PM. | ||
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05-30-2009, 12:07 AM
| #20 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| Some Interesting Healing Benefits of Fasting: "Fasting has been found to help a number of disease conditions, often permanently. There have been a number of intriguing clinical trials and studies treating numerous disease conditions with fasting. Here are some of those findings. * In one clinical trial of hypertension and fasting, 174 people with hypertension were prefasted for 2-3 days by eating only fruits and vegetables. They then participated in a 10-11 day water only fast, followed by a 6-7 day post fast in which they ate only a low-fat, low- sodium vegan diet. Initial blood pressure in the participants was either in excess of 140 millimeters of mercury (mm HG) systolic or 90 diastolic or both. Ninety percent of the participants achieved blood pressure less than 140/90 by the end of the trial. The higher their initial blood pressure the more their readings dropped. The average drop for all participants was 37/13. Those with stage 3 hypertension (over 180/110) had an average reduction of 60/17. All those taking blood pressure medication prior to fasting were able to discontinue it. Fasting has been shown in a number of trials like this one to be one of the most effective methods for lowering blood pressure and normalizing cardiovascular function. Blood pressure tends to remain low in all those using fasting for cardiovascular disease once fasting is completed. * Fasting is exceptionally beneficial in chronic cardiovascular disease and congestive heart failure, reducing triglycerides, atheromas, total cholesterol, and increasing HDL levels. * Fasting has been found effective in the treatment of type II diabetes, often reversing the condition permanently. * Because of its long term effects on metabolism, fat stores in the body, leptin, and disease conditions associated with obesity, fasting has been found to be one of the most effective treatments for obesity. * A number of studies have found that fasting is beneficial in epilepsy, reducing the length, number, and severity of seizures. Fasting is especially effective for helping alleviate or cure childhood epilepsy. * In a 1988 trial of 88 people with acute pancreatitis, fasting was found better than any other medical intervention. Neither nasogastric suction or cimetidine were found to produce as beneficial effects as those from fasting. Symptoms were relieved irrespective of the etiology of the disease. * A number of studies have found that fasting is effective for treating both osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis. Fasting induces significant antiinflammatory actions in the body and researchers found decreased ESR, arthralgia, pain, stiffness, and need for medication. * Autoimmune diseases such as lupus, rosacea, chronic urticaria, and acute glomerulonephritis have all responded well to fasting. * Severe toxic contamination has been shown to be significantly helped with fasting. Clinical trials have found that people poisoned with PCB experienced "dramatic" relief after 7-10 day fasts. * Poor immune function improves during fasting. Studies have found that there is increased macrophage activity, increased cell-mediated immunity, decreased complement factors, decreased antigen-antibody complexes, increased immunoglobulin levels, increased neutrophil bactericidal activity, depressed lymphocyte blastogenesis, heightened monocyte killing and bactericidal function, and enhanced natural killer cell activity. * Other diseases that have responded to fasting are: psychosomatic disease, neurogenic bladder, psoriasis, eczema, thrombophlebitis, varicose ulcers, fibromyalgia, neurocirculatory disease, irritable bowel syndrome, inflammatory bowel disease, bronchial asthma, lumbago, depression, neurosis, schizophrenia, duodenal ulcers, uterine fibroids, intestinal parasites, gout, allergies, hay fever, hives, multiple sclerosis, and insomnia. * The historically lengthy claim that fasting increases life span is beginning to garner some support in research literature. Regularly repeated 4-day fasting has been found to increase the life span in normal and immunocompromised mice. * Although the use of fasting in the treatment of cancer is controversial, there is some emerging data SHOWING that fasting helps prevent cancer. Intermittent fasting (2 days weekly) has shown an inhibitory effect on the development of liver cancer in rats." from: The Health Benefits of Water Fasting Last edited by MightySunTzu; 05-30-2009 at 12:12 AM. |
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05-31-2009, 03:54 PM
| #21 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| Quote:
 . Haha, much yet to learn. My new theory is that the blood/toxin level is temporarily heightened as these toxins are in the process of being eliminated and this is what leads to being more easily fatigued. Actually i always believed that to be part of it and i'm pretty sure that is supported in the literature. Last edited by MightySunTzu; 05-31-2009 at 04:01 PM. | |
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05-31-2009, 05:06 PM
| #22 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| Has it been 8.4 days Already? Ok, yes we have reached 8.4 days. Seems it went by pretty quickly and easily. Mostly i have felt quite good with only occasional feelings of weakness. A more refined report on light headedness is that when i go from laying down or tying a shoe to the upright position too quickly, i get light headed. When i am sitting and then stand, i can do this quickly and without caution. Still no sign of heartburn, which is really nice. Strangely and surprisingly i woke up this morning with the slightest headache (after 8 days with no such symptom). It is so mild as to not even be the least bit of an annoyance, but somehow i felt it to be worthy of mention... even if only because i found it to be so unexpected  . The light exercise continues nicely. Yesterday i was hiking in the forest, took one wrong turn on the way back and ended up hiking for about 4 hours instead of the 2 i intended... meanwhile with a growing thirst. Taking it very easy on the uphills, prefering not to encounter them, but to no avail  . Since i was planning on only two hours, i drank a small surplus of water before leaving and didn't bring any with me, so i was NICE AND THIRSTY by the time i got home. I can't recall an instance where water was quite so eagerly anticipated and so immensely satisfying .The deep pain in my left ankle is not fully recovered but is feeling quite a bit better. The very mild headache i woke up with is already gone. The tiny growth under my left eye "grows tinier". Seems to be one of the tougher types of growths for the body to absorb as discussed by Shelton or it would have been completely gone by now. Another of my goals in this fast is for that to have completely disappeared without a trace. Hunger: To review, i was not feeling much hunger sensation in the first 1.75 days (which is quite unusual). That 2nd evening, however, i was hit pretty hard with appetite, which persisted for about 4 hours before i went to sleep. Over the next 3 days appetite was pretty mild, but would arise frequently for short periods. By about day 6 to present, physical appetite has been all but absent with very little exception. However, within this absense of physical hunger i was watching a couple of nature shows last night. Grizzly bears were eating salmon that were swimming upstream as they were leaping up a small waterfall. In the other program there were a billion (yes a billion!) sardines migrating and dolphins and a certain species of diving bird were waiting for them... watching this i was overcome by the strongest emotional craving for sardines!... all with no feeling of physical hunger . This lead to a strong craving for nuts as well. This was my strongest temptation so far, but i focused on my desire to reach the 20-30 day goal. It's not like i could eat the foods i craved anyway (needing to gradually work towards them over several days), so this provides an added layer of protection against a premature breaking of the fast. Once i feel this strong of a craving (and not before), it helps me to take in the aromas of food. So i opened up a can of sardines and poured some mixed nuts and a little piece of the sardines into small containers and enjoyed whiffing them for about a half hour . So i will continue one day at a time, enjoying each day as much as possible and i hope soon to have achieved my 20-30 day goal... and once again i would be immensely delighted to encounter "a return to genuine hunger" within that timeframe. Oh, i almost forgot the weight log. Weight log at 8.4 days: Scale weight and "estimated real weight" upon start of fast: 192 Scale weight today: 174.25 Estimated real weight today: 184.4 Overall weight loss (which still means nothing to me): 17.75 Estimated real weight loss (fat loss): 7.6 Estimated temporary weight loss incl. water, intestinal content and other (i consider the small amount of protein i am losing to be temporary as well, expecting to put back double that amount within a very short time upon refeeding): 10.15 Today i found myself reaching the mini goal of 185 real pounds. The next mini goal of 180 is 6 days away. The body fat is melting away quickly . Last edited by MightySunTzu; 05-31-2009 at 06:04 PM. |
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06-03-2009, 03:54 AM
| #24 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| Quote:
. Actually i have seen various big game feasts and had no such reaction. Two examples that come to mind are several lions took down an elephant and one of them nabbed a zebra. Something about those sardines . I was given 3 trout today which i scaled and put in the freezer without any desire to eat them. Since the night of day 8, no repeat instances of immense cravings.Thank you very much SarahJaynee for your interest and support . | |
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06-04-2009, 06:44 PM
| #25 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| 12.5 Days Now Ok, we have reached 12.5 days and the fast continues to go well. I continue to hike, walk or bike 2 hours per day, physical hunger remains absent and cravings continue to arise occasionally. When the last couple of cravings have arisen, they have been for mixed nuts. The temptation has been quite strong, but the desire to reach my goal has been stronger. I feel fine, even well. My symptoms have been quite light, primarily consisting of the usual light headedness when rising too quickly. Oh, also the coated tongue, most especially first thing in the morning. At this point, 20+ days is looking very good. It is mostly a matter of patience. I miss food a lot, but it can wait. The deep pain in my left ankle is getting better each day, but it's a stubborn "injury". I would estimate it to be about 60% healed since the start of the fast. The tiny growth under my left eye which is also very stubborn continues to decrease in size little by little. But the sore foot that i had healed completely by about day 5. I have read good things about "dry fasting", that it actually allows us to cleanse at an even faster rate than water fasting. What i have been doing in the past 3 days is drinking to thirst within a 4 hour window including the period of what has become usually 2 hours of morning exercise... which has been about 6-8 cups with the exercise... and going dry for the next 20 hours. I wouldn't do this personally in the first few days, but in many ways i believe it can actually make the fast more comfortable at some point after this. At 10.3 days i experienced an actual solid bm, the first of the fast. I was so delighted and proud . The next day there was more bowel activity of a looser nature, which i also celebrated. Weight Log at 12.5 days: Scale weight and "estimated real weight" upon start of fast: 192 Scale weight today: 171 Estimated real weight today: 181.4 Overall weight loss: (which still still still means nothing to me ): 21Estimated real weight loss (fat loss): 10.6 Estimated temporary weight loss incl. water, intestinal content and other (i consider the small amount of protein i am losing to be temporary as well, expecting to put back double that amount within a very short time upon refeeding): 10.4 The water loss has slowed considerably and the fat loss has actually eclipsed it. I would say i have lost basically no water in the past 4 days and wouldn't expect to be losing much more, if any, throughout the fast. The mini goal of 180 in real weight is now just 2 days away and in this i am most pleased . Last edited by MightySunTzu; 06-05-2009 at 12:24 AM. |
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06-08-2009, 07:49 PM
| #27 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| Ok, we have reached 16.5 days and the fast continues to go well... still no nasty symptoms of any kind, not even a moment of heartburn. As with each day leading to this one, i continue to hike, walk or bike 2 hours per day. Physical hunger remains absent and cravings in the past 3 days have diminished from what they were in the days leading to them... making the whole adventure proceed with even greater ease even than it had been . Mixed nuts remains my food of choice to whif on a little bit, even if cravings are well under control. I only do this on some nights once l settle in to sleep which is when any cravings, however slight, tend to arise. Enjoying the aroma of the nuts is a sensory delight, one which makes the day a better one . I continue to feel well and keep wondering if a "healing crisis" will arise to make the fast "even a little bit difficult". Still dealing with the coated tongue (coated mouth is more accurate), most especially first thing in the morning and to a lesser extent throughout the day. At this point, 20+ days is looking like a near certainty, unless something exceedingly unexpected came up. As i said in the last post, it is primarily a matter of patience and also of enjoying each day immensely. I do still miss food, sometimes a lot, and i am very excited about getting to the point where i can enjoy it again, but it can definately wait. The benefits i achieve in this fast will be magnificent... so it is well worth the sacrifice. I actually "dry fasted" (no water) for about 18-20 hours per day for 3 days then launched into a 40 hour dry fast which was very difficult for me. 20 hours seems to be what my body is happy with and i can do this comfortably, with only minor feelings of thirst in this time. I am confident my body's water reserves can handle this very nicely. However, in the 40 hour "fast within a fast", i was pretty thirsty the entire 2nd half. I took a couple of days to help assure i was fully rehydrated and now i will be back to drinking to thirst within a 4-6 hour window (surrounding my 2 hour period of exercise) and then dry fast the other 18-20 hours per day for each remaining day of this fast. My "thirst" is demanding about 6-8 cups and this would be considerably less without 2 hours of walking. No more bowel activity since day 10 and 11, but that's ok and to be expected. Weight Log at 16.5 days: Scale weight and "estimated real weight" upon start of fast: 192 Scale weight today: 164.75 Overall weight loss: (which still still still means nothing to me ): 27.25Estimated real weight today: 178.6 Estimated real weight loss (fat loss): 13.4 Estimated temporary weight loss incl. water, intestinal content and other (i consider the small amount of protein i am losing to be temporary as well, expecting to put back double that amount within a very short time upon refeeding with a newly rejuvenated supercharged body): 13.85 Note that this 13.85 pounds of temporary loss will most assuredly be back on my body within 2-3 weeks of breaking the fast. Feeling pretty great. Next mini goal is 20 days which i am very excited about. Last edited by MightySunTzu; 06-09-2009 at 12:02 AM. |
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06-09-2009, 08:56 AM
| #28 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 3,747
| I had never heard of the dry fast except with the Muslims not drinking during the day and then drinking and eating like a pig at night. Dr Fuhrman had a lady who would have problems with fasting after a couple of days on her own. Under his guidance she had them but learned that she was not drinking any water. It was fixed with her drinking water. Fuhrman and Shelton never used dry fasting according to their books. People just drink what they need-- no less and no more. The coated tongue is there all of the time until you break the fast. Say you break the fast with fruit and start another fast right after that. The tongue clears and then it gets coated again. How long it takes to get coated is how long it takes for the body to go into the fasting mode. I say on my site that during the fast, the mouth becomes an organ of elimination. Also you are seeing the mental addiction that people have to food. It sounds like the dry fasting is an issue of control with you. You want to control something (your mind wants to control something). The fast is where you do not control anything with ingestion and your body drinks when it is thirsty. Your mind is not involved when you drink when you are thirsty. But with this dry fasting then your mind can decide if you drink no water for 10 hours or 15 hours or 21 hours or 40 hours. You can then debate with yourself what is the ideal number of hours to dry fast. Then it is not perfect since your are making a choice. But when the body drinks when thirsty, you do not make a choice. Then it is perfect. The body has its own intelligence just like with an animal. But people have a mind that can decide all sorts of strange things that are against survival. Fasting is not the mathematician's operating table. It is God or nature's operating table. |
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06-09-2009, 05:43 PM
| #29 (permalink) | ||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southern California
Posts: 775
| Quote:
Has it ever perhaps occurred to you that some Muslim individuals as well as others might become offended by your choice of words, especially since their view of pigs is such a negative one? Also, the idea of dry fasting is very new to me as well. I like what i read about it, so i decided to incorporate it into my water fast. Aside from the 40 hour experiment which i don't intend to repeat, i am basically "drinking to thirst". For the 18-20 hours dry, i have little or no thirst. Quote:
Yes or until the return of genuine hunger at which point your tongue becomes uncoated and your breath which has been nasty throughout the entire fast becomes sweet . To those who don't believe fasting detoxes the system, i would enjoy listening to them attempt to explain that away . As to the mouth being an organ of elimination, i agree and help that bad stuff out as much as i can, particularly by brushing my entire mouth and rinsing and/or wiping many times throughout the day. Quote:
An interesting theory. Perhaps a wee bit of over-analyzing though . To me it's not about control whatsoever. It is about researching the subject of intermittent dry fasting and becomming convinced that this is the most effective way (swiftest way) to eliminate toxins, perhaps 2x faster than water fasting... and then implementing it. In my previous 24 fasts of 7 days or longer, i never dry fasted because i had never heard of it, let alone knew of its benefits. By the way, strict dry fasting is supposed to be devoid of Bathing, showering, hand washing, brushing teeth or rinsing the mouth. I violate all 5 of these... i am just not drinking in that time. But in listening to my body, i will no longer do 40 hours which was more of an experiment than anything, partly of seeing if at a certain point it would become easier... which it didn't. Drinking only to thirst within a 4-6 hour window surrounding my 2 hours of exercise and then going dry for 18-20 hours, however, is quite comfortable for me. Any feeling of thirst or temptation to drink that does arise in that time has been quite mild in each of the 6 or 7 days i have done it. I don't even know if it could be called "thirst". Day versus night comfort levels as compared to the 2nd half of the 40 hour experiment where the thirst became very strong and persistent. Quote:
Last edited by MightySunTzu; 06-09-2009 at 06:47 PM. | ||||
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06-12-2009, 08:27 AM
| #30 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Singapore
Posts: 236
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This is currently the best thread on this site IMO. MightySunTzu I admire you doing this fast and letting us observers in also. Gingko, thanks for replying with all your informed posts - they are great. Although I have to agree with Might over your choice of words re Muslims and "eating like pigs". Made me LOL! So MightSunTzu, how are your sleep patterns? have they changed since starting the fast? I know its quite intimate but what about your sex Life? I read the Shelton book excerpt (I dont have the book but have ordered it now) on Fasting and Sex and I wondered if you had notice a difference in ability/cravings/desire etc. Also what about your concentration levels? have they increased/decreased. have you been more productive or less so.....? I am SERIOUSLY thinking about doing a prolonged fast. I currently "don't eat" every Tuesday (Monday dinner at around 6pm and then breakfast at 7:30am Weds). In your (Mighty and Gingko) opinion how many days should I aim for as my first prolonged fast. I'm looking to sleep less, revitalise my skin and shed the last of my baby weight (she is 7months now and I'm not breastfeeding). |
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