setting alarm 90 minutes before waking time

[rocketman]

as the theory/fact is that we sleep in 90 minute cycles, i have tried setting my sleep schedule to sleep for a factor of 90 minutes as suggested.

my problem is twofold:

1) the time it takes me to fall asleep is never constant and thus, the empty time i am lying in bed throws off the arithmetic and i end up waking to my alarm in a very groggy state. (note: i realize there are factors such as hormonal levels and diet/exercise which are influencing this "fall asleep" time but work with me here, i can't perfect everything at once...)

2) due to work demands, i am not always able to go to bed at the same time.

in either case, if my target is to wake up at 5AM on my own feeling refreshed, it's not happening and i end up waking to my alarm (at 5AM) completely groggy.

i am wondering, if i set my alarm for 3:30, and a second alarm for 5:00, would it have the desired effect? in my extensive sleep research, i haven't seen this would-be "hack" suggested anywhere, so i am naturally skeptical that i am making some intrinsically inaccurate assumption here.

if you set it 90 minutes before you need to get up, since you immediately fall back asleep after turning off the alarm, won't you be completely refreshed if awakened 90 minutes later?

[Marce]

Sleep cycles change throughout the night
As the night progresses you will spend more time in REM sleep and less time in the other stages, in this stage and also stage 4 (the stage before REM) it is hard to wake up and often disorientation and 'grogginess' is experienced
To feel refreashed it is important to get a lot of REM sleep and the deeper stages of NREM (stage 3 and 4) Sleep before 12 is usually better quality sleep

It is very hard if even possible to wake up at the end of the cycle as they are continuous throughout the night

[Brutha]

90 minutes is an average value. The number isn't the same for everyone and can be 80 min for one person and 100 min for the next.

if you set it 90 minutes before you need to get up, since you immediately fall back asleep after turning off the alarm, won't you be completely refreshed if awakened 90 minutes later?

The alarm probably won't totally awake you and there will be still some of the factor that regulate the sleep phase in effect when you go to sleep again.

It is very hard if even possible to wake up at the end of the cycle as they are continuous throughout the night

There are a few techniques that allow the detection of sleep phases and I have heard of alarm clocks that monitor your breathing pattern to find out when you can be awaken the best.
Additionally as long as you wake up during the first sleep phase of a cycle you are fine.

There are also people who naturally awake after sleep phases but go right back to sleep without having memories about the phases in between.

[rocketman]

brutha - what do you suggest that i do?

[rocketman]

Originally Posted by Brutha

There are a few techniques that allow the detection of sleep phases and I have heard of alarm clocks that monitor your breathing pattern to find out when you can be awaken the best.

i'll go ahead and google this but i'm hoping you could elaborate on some of these techniques if you recall off the top of your head.

[MiBeloved]

To find out your own sleep cycle time rhythm, take a week off from everything else where you can spend time relaxing and being away from job stress and relationship worries. Then rest sufficiently at night and during the day take naps. Time these naps by noting when they begin and when they naturally end, without the use of alarm clocks and other alerts. Make a note of the various durations of these naps and then use the average as your sleep cycle time rhythm. It is important that you not be on any medication which affects the brain or breathing and heart beat rate, otherwise you will not get a true average.

[rocketman]

Originally Posted by MiBeloved

To find out your own sleep cycle time rhythm, take a week off from everything else where you can spend time relaxing and being away from job stress and relationship worries. Then rest sufficiently at night and during the day take naps. Time these naps by noting when they begin and when they naturally end, without the use of alarm clocks and other alerts. Make a note of the various durations of these naps and then use the average as your sleep cycle time rhythm. It is important that you not be on any medication which affects the brain or breathing and heart beat rate, otherwise you will not get a true average.

i take a nap every day and it is for about 90 minutes (though i will time again today just to be sure), but how does this address my main problem? the time it takes me to fall asleep in my main sleep period still varies...

[MiBeloved]

It may help you to realise how you can zone in to full relaxation which will bring on refreshing sleep.
The groggy state is occurring because of some type of harmony between your conscious and subconscious minds. Usually that is because of a messed up life style with or without drug influence. So if you take a break from a hassle routine, you can reset your psyche, so that the conscious and subconscious minds get in sync.

[Brutha]

i'll go ahead and google this but i'm hoping you could elaborate on some of these techniques if you recall off the top of your head.

Without claiming that all of the following approach work (I don't know exactly) but to give you some pointers:
1) App Review: Easy Wakeup which monitors sleep patterns through the movement sensor of the iphone
2) HappyWakeUp TM Smart Alarm Clock on Mobile Phone And all mornings are created equal… Happy WakeUp - Smart alarm clock on your mobile phone iphone/nokia clock that uses the microphone to monitor breathing to deduce the sleep pattern
3) Sleeptracker the Unique Alarm Clock, Wake Up Easier - Sleeptracker the Sleep Watch is a hardware watch that does the same thing as the first iphone app
It also allows logs the data about your sleep pattern for your latter review.
4) iMusic | Volume Three by Volition Thought House: your Soundtrack for Morning Success uses brainwave entertainment to control the sleep state and increase the volume till it awakes you over 30 minutes.
5) Waking up without an alarm clock. It's not a skill that I personally have but there are quite a few people who can and it's probably possible to learn it.
Hypnosis might help in that area.
Self hypnosis tapes are also a way to get to sleep at a specific time.
6) The idea of waking up at the same time each day of the week might also allows your body to adept and have it's cycle finished at 5 AM. Your brain can learn to do things. The only problem in sleep is that all the important things are outside your conscious awareness.
This is also one of the reasons why you should wake up at the same time each day.

If you have better monitoring equipment like an EEGs or maybe heart rate monitors you could maybe do a better job at monitoring sleep states and do an even better job at waking up.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I used to do this when I was still in high school about 9 years ago. I would set my alrarm about 90 minutes before I would actually get out of bed, with the 9 minute snooze going off and I spent the rest of the days exhausted, almost falling asleep on the bus to and from my house. I did wake up less groggy, though.

[rocketman]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Without claiming that all of the following approach work (I don't know exactly) but to give you some pointers:
1) App Review: Easy Wakeup which monitors sleep patterns through the movement sensor of the iphone
2) HappyWakeUp TM Smart Alarm Clock on Mobile Phone And all mornings are created equal… Happy WakeUp - Smart alarm clock on your mobile phone iphone/nokia clock that uses the microphone to monitor breathing to deduce the sleep pattern
3) Sleeptracker the Unique Alarm Clock, Wake Up Easier - Sleeptracker the Sleep Watch is a hardware watch that does the same thing as the first iphone app
It also allows logs the data about your sleep pattern for your latter review.
4) iMusic | Volume Three by Volition Thought House: your Soundtrack for Morning Success uses brainwave entertainment to control the sleep state and increase the volume till it awakes you over 30 minutes.
5) Waking up without an alarm clock. It's not a skill that I personally have but there are quite a few people who can and it's probably possible to learn it.
Hypnosis might help in that area.
Self hypnosis tapes are also a way to get to sleep at a specific time.
6) The idea of waking up at the same time each day of the week might also allows your body to adept and have it's cycle finished at 5 AM. Your brain can learn to do things. The only problem in sleep is that all the important things are outside your conscious awareness.
This is also one of the reasons why you should wake up at the same time each day.

If you have better monitoring equipment like an EEGs or maybe heart rate monitors you could maybe do a better job at monitoring sleep states and do an even better job at waking up.

thanks as always, i will look into all of these.

[rocketman]

Originally Posted by MiBeloved

The groggy state is occurring because of some type of harmony between your conscious and subconscious minds. Usually that is because of a messed up life style with or without drug influence.

uhhh....okay....thanks, i think?

[MiBeloved]

They say that the sky is the limit, but actually there is a limit to the amount of stress each of us can handle before our system gets whacked out. I was referring the inharmony or mismatch between the conscious and subconscious minds. If you reduce the causes of stress, if you scale down and live in a way where you can handle what you have to deal with, your sleep/wake relationship will become more harmonious.

[AskMissK]

I must say this is fascinating and maybe I might need to start setting my alarm earlier to wake up an hour early.

[rocketman]

i have been doing this for the last three nights with great results. for me, even if it's not about waking up during a certain phase of sleep, it's the personal negotiating that is being targeted.

what i mean is this. i wake up at 6:20. normally, when my alarm goes off, the most difficult thing is making yourself jump up. i sometimes naturally start negotiating with myself saying things like 'you deserve to sleep in today' or 'just snooze for a bit longer and then get up'. i usually am able to overcome this, but there are some days when i give in. to overcome this, i try to jump up immediately but this is often difficult to do.

now, i set it for 5:50. when it goes off and my body starts negotiating, i can give in and so psychologically i feel better that i still get a bit more sleep. then, after snoozing for a bit, i naturally wake up about 15 minutes later without the second alarm even going off. so i think the main distinction here is the difference between the finality of knowing that you have to get up NOW with 'ok, i snoozed a little bit, now i need to get up, no more slacking.'

one might ask then why not just hit the snooze button? i think the difference is that with this, you are giving yourself enough time to naturally wake up on your own whenever you are ready since 30 minutes is a big interval. and in the event you don't, the alarm goes off.

[rocketman]

wow, i have been doing this for over a week now and it has been incredible. i've gotten up with ease every single day and haven't been groggy.

[Far3]

Thanks rocketman, I think I am going to try this for tomorrow morning for sure. Set my first alarm at 6:30, then a second one at 7:00am.

I'll let you know how it goes after a couple of days.

[rocketman]

Originally Posted by Far3

Thanks rocketman, I think I am going to try this for tomorrow morning for sure. Set my first alarm at 6:30, then a second one at 7:00am.

I'll let you know how it goes after a couple of days.

how did it work out for you? i want to try and fine tune it a bit but not sure what else to do. i think 30 minutes is ideal because it is a long enough interval to psychologically convince yourself that you have enough time to get some more good sleep in, but it's still short enough that i wake up within that first cycle.