Anyone New to Smoking?????

[yacapo]

I have a question that's been bugging me for quite a while. Are there actually people that are starting to smoke for the first time, after all we know about how it can KILL you???

I can understand the people that have been doing it for a long time, who didn't really know how harmful it really was. What makes me angry is when I see young people who should be well aware of what can happen to them.

Are people just stupid or what?? I know it's hard to quit, but it's not hard to never start.

It's just unbelievable how freaking dumb human beings can be. We just don't learn from past mistakes. It's amazing!!!

Are there any new smokers on this forum? If there are, can you give me a valid reason why in the world you decided to pick up this stupid, deadly habit? Also, convince me how you can be an intelligent person and still decide to start smoking. This will be quite a challenge!

[Angela]

Like the fast food industry, the tobacco industry has all kinds of money for marketing to young people. It takes a real act of strength and will to resist the incredibly pervasive influence of these powerful entities. It's not stupidity, I don't think; just malleability.

Posts like yours are good for fighting off the evil marketing influences!

[alexb5784]

People are brainwashed by the media to think something is cool. Even on the subways, I've seen ads for Bud beer. Why would they advertise beer on the subways? Little children see these ads and all the happy people in them. In return, they grow up believing that this is the way to get friends as an adult.

And even some of the commercials on tv for medicine, are bad. They tell people that it's okay to overeat and be unhealthy, because all you need to do is take a Tums or Pepto-Bismol, and you're better again! I can't believe I even know how to spell Pepto-Bismol! There are more important words to know. But as I've seen these commericials thousands of times in my life, I know how to spell the product name. That's advertising!

Kids can spell product names these days, but can't spell the names of States or vocabulary words in spelling bees.

[John Wesley]

It's perceived as cool. It gives you a buzz. All the bad asses are doing it on tv and in the movies. It's sexy. It's something older people do.

It makes perfect sense for teenagers to be curious.

[yacapo]

Originally Posted by John Wesley

It's perceived as cool. It gives you a buzz. All the bad asses are doing it on tv and in the movies. It's sexy. It's something older people do.

It makes perfect sense for teenagers to be curious.

That's exactly what's wrong with people! Everyone is trying to be like everyone else and nobody wants to be themselves. Nobody wants to be original.
Someone with a strong personality who is secure about him or herself wouldn't need to do what others are doing to feel cool or feel like they have to fit in. I never once tried any type of illegal drug while I was in school, or now for that matter.

It seems to me like the problem lies with people's insecurities and weak personalities. I don't have any kids yet (maybe in a year), but you can bet that one of the things I will try to teach him or her is how uncool it is to try to be like someone else. I mean, if you don't want to be you, then why are here? Why are you alive? It seems to me that you have to have a very low opinion of yourself to think that being yourself just isn't good enough. Maybe I'll make a commercial

[yacapo]

Originally Posted by John Wesley

It makes perfect sense for teenagers to be curious.

Did you say it "makes perfect sense?" Let's think about this for a second. There is something that can kill you and yet you are willing to try it because you are curious and see others doing it?? You can't be serious!

I think I've just identified another problem with society. We think this kind of stuff makes sense?? Does it make sense when you are lying on a hospital bed asking God why this is happening to you? Kids need to grow up, plain and simple.

We keep treating kids like they're stupid and immature and they will keep acting this way. We need to stop EXPECTING kids to be stupid by saying their behavior makes sense. When you expect people to be stupid, that's exactly what they will become.

[SmellyOrc]

Originally Posted by yacapo

We keep treating kids like they're stupid and immature and they will keep acting this way. We need to stop EXPECTING kids to be stupid by saying their behavior makes sense. When you expect people to be stupid, that's exactly what they will become.

Amen to that.
Being a teenager myself, I never have and never will smoke. Never even got tempted to smoke. I do not care if it's hip, cool or whatnot, I just won't do something to belong to a group or w/e. I also don't know why people would do that. Sure, you might be 'cool' (whatever ), but health and being yourself is more important than being cool in my opinion.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by yacapo

Kids need to grow up, plain and simple.

Yacapo, kids grow up at their own rate and in their own time. In the meanwhile, they're vulnerable, not because they're stupid, but for a lot of other reasons that have to do with nature and nurture. Big corporations are able to exploit that vulnerability to their very great profit by studying and understanding the soft spots kids have. The corps understand that if you get a consumer young, you've got 'em for life.

I don't think blaming and shaming these vulnerable targets is going to do much to help them say no to smoking (or big macs, or count chocula). John Wesley's right, it is natural for kids to be curious and rebelious, and I think it's harmful for Big Money to exploit that. It's those companies that need to be blamed and shamed and punished (and boycotted), not their victims.

[yacapo]

Originally Posted by Angela

It's those companies that need to be blamed and shamed and punished (and boycotted), not their victims.

Yeah, let's blame Mcdonald's for people being fat. That makes sense. Companies make money by giving people what they want. I don't care how many times a company tries to sell me something. If I don't think it's healthy for me, I'm not going to buy it. And if I do, I won't blame them for it. That's what you do when you have a business. You find out what people need or want and you provide it. If people weren't weak to begin with, they wouldn't have any customers.

I'm only 24 years old. I remember exactly what it was like to be 14, 16 or whatever. SmellyOrc is absolutely right! Those are the kinds of people that will make something of themselves. Most of the people I went to high school with have kids but no career and their life just stinks. But at least they had a good time being "kids."

You know what I find funny? When teenagers reach the age of 18, we expect them to be adults, when just two years earlier at 16 we thought they were vulnerable and shouldn't be blamed for doing certain things. Does that make sense?

We expect kids to become adults as soon as they reach 18, but they are treated as kids right up until they reach that age. People don't grow up from one day to another. It's gradual, which is why they need to start being held responsible for their actions way before they reach the age of 18. We need to stop making excuses for them, or our future as a society looks very sad.

[Angela]

Yacopo, I'm all for personal responsibility, but it's clear to me that kids are no match for the insidious marketing aimed at kids. Remember Joe Camel? That was aimed at preadolescent children, not teenagers, because Camel knew that if they could intrigue those soft little minds, they had them in the bag as not-too-distant future consumers. McDonald's, similarly, uses Ronald McDonald, playgrounds, and other tricks to lure the little ones into their greasy mitts.

It takes education for consumers to see through and resist the insidious efforts made by these companies. I think the corporations should be held responsible for addicting children to cigarettes and fast-food.

That said, I'm all for an advertising campaign aimed at teenagers: a photo of a person dying of lung cancer with the caption, "Are you STUPID??? don't smoke, you nincompoop!! What an *********************!"

That might work.

[alexb5784]

Just last weekend, I was watching The Twilight Zone on DVD and the host of the show was promoting cigarettes at the end of the program. He said that cigarettes were tasty, healthy and chic. But back then (in the 1950's) people didn't know cigarettes were bad. Heck, even doctor's recommended them!

Angela is right, it's all about self-education. And that's hard to do when the media and society persuades you to behave in a certian way. Many people say smoking is bad, but yet they abuse their health in other ways. Children look at this and say "Daddy doesn't smoke, but he drinks. What's wrong if I smoke? He's no better than me. I'm not doing anything wrong." We have to set examples in the home first, if we want our children to respect their health

Check out this advertisment from the 1950's and you'll understand just how much control the media has over people.

More Doctors Smoke Camels (1950's)

[fballer11]

isn't that a south park episode. I forget who, but some guy despises smoking, and stuffs himself with McDonalds every five minutes.

Man, South Park gets it every time.

[The David]

Watch your blood pressure, Yacopo.

[alexb5784]

I have a friend who has all the South Park episodes on DVD, I'll have to find that one

[John Wesley]

Did you ever think it might be fun to do something bad, just because it's bad? Because people are preaching nonstop about how bad smoking is, it has acquired this air of mystery that makes it appealing. Also, there is no guarantee it will kill you, and if it does, it won't be for 40 years.

I think some of you are taking a one sided approach to this question. There is obviously an appeal there because everyone knows about the health effects and tons of people still smoke. To call everyone that smokes stupid is to make an enormous generalization.

I'm not say it's a smart move, but people have the right to make their own choices without others looking down their noses at them.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by John Wesley

...people have the right to make their own choices without others looking down their noses at them.

They do? Really, a right?

[BettyBoo]

For smokers who want to quit I recommend Paul McKenna "Stop smoking for good" hypno-therapy.
its working for me for the past 18 days. I can't imagine myself taking a cigarette right now. I can't believe it. But it does makes me nervous, don't know what to do with my hands. Little off subject, but it's good to know.

[Matthew Shea]

It's too bad this thread has such a negative attitude. The way the OP was worded, I'd be very surprised if anyone even had the guts to respond to the question that was put forth. If you want information from someone, you don't ask them a question, then proceed to insult them for their poor choices in life. The people responding so far are just as bad for the most part.

Personally, I'd say that 10 years ago or more, those who are blaming the tobacco companies would be right. Those same companies have been severely punished for their behavior, however, and currently have their tail between their legs to the extend of funding all sorts of anti-tobacco advertising, web sites, and various other programs. These days, I'd venture to guess that those who start smoking do it out of a sense of rebellion or because they're emulating a bad example given to them by trusted adults or peers.

[Adam]

Ya know, it's all the advertiser's fault.

It's also all the fault of the people who purchase the product.

What organ's fault is it that you're alive right now, your heart, your lungs, or your brain's fault?

So, who's fault is it that people smoke? The advertisers, the consumers, and the people who make smoking such a mysterious and appealing way to rebel. The economy is organic. Without the producers, smoking would dissapear. Without the consumers, smoking would disappear. Without the advertisers or the unwitting anti-tobacco groups advertising for smoking, smoking would be seriously damaged.

When I started smoking, it was because it was a bad thing to do. Plain and simple. The anti-tobacco groups probably helped to pressure me to smoke more than my peers and the advertisers did. It was still my own choice, though. Without the anti-tobacco groups, I probably would not be smoking today. Without the tobacco companies, I definitely would not be smoking today. Without myself, obviously I wouldn't be smoking today.

In fact, I would even go as far as to say that people who don't do *enough* to stop the tobacco companies are just as much at fault as the smokers, tobacco companies, and the groups who are advertising for cigarettes (whether they intend to or not). The only people who aren't at fault are those who just don't care.

Now, are we done laying blame, so that we can move on and get to the root of the question, or do we want to keep arguing over who is responsible? (Aren't we supposed to want to take responsibility, since we are working towards personal development?)

The question is, why do people start smoking, even though they know that it will probably be a large factor in their death.

Because teens think that they are immortal. At least, they believe that they will live long enough that the choices they are making now will not affect them their entire lifetime. The fact that smoking contributes to fatal diseases does absolutely nothing to affect the decision making process of teens and young adults, simply because they have not developed a sense of mortality.

Here's a quick exercise that will demonstrate the lack of logic that goes through a teen's mind. Find a child about 5 years old and tell them that if they clean their room right now, you will give them as much candy as they can eat tomorrow, but they can get a piece of candy now and not clean their room, but they will be grounded tomorrow. In almost every case, the child will choose the instant gratification despite the consequences. As the child matures, their perspective of time improves and the need for instant gratification diminishes, but a true sense of mortality (not just knowing intellectually that things can die, but knowing emotionally and intellectually that you will die) does not develop until a person is in their early twenties, on average.

A more effective way to keep teens from smoking is to forget all about the deadliness of smoking and point out the immediate effects of smoking. Tell kids that the first time they smoke, they'll probably cough their lungs out. The first time that they seriously inhale, they will get light headed and sick, probably even throwing up in the process. Each time they smoke, they are raising their blood pressure, which makes them weaker and reduces oxygen to the brain, making them temporarily stupid. For about 15 minutes after they smoke, they will be able to create more memories easier, but when they aren't smoking, it will be much harder to remember things. Since they can't smoke in class, they won't be able to learn in class as effectively as before, so their grades will suffer.

If people had told me the short term effects of smoking, I probably wouldn't have started. Since I only heard the "serious" long term effects, I didn't care one bit. At the time of my first cigarette, thirty years was over twice a lifetime away, so dieing in thirty years was beyond my ability to imagine, even though I could grasp the words behind the concept intellectually.

[skinnyninja]

How I started smoking....

I was very well educated about the ill effects of smoking when I first started. And, I have moderate to severe asthma, which my parents assured me that I could never even conceive of smoking. It was unthinkable for me to smoke.

Before I was ever a smoker, I saw very clearly the mindlessness of smoking. All of these people, mindlessly taking puff after puff, not even conscious of it, not even savoring any of it. I even asked some smokers if they enjoyed it. "Not really. I wish I could quit" seemed to be the universal response. Based on all of this, I had a certain attitude towards smokers....I judged them in my mind to be either stupid or weak-willed. Something must be wrong with these people, I thought.

Apparently I was destined to learn a lesson here, because I eventually picked up the habit. The best way I can explain it is to blame alcohol. Yep, cigarettes seem like a worthwhile experiment when you're drunk. So I smoked heavily and daily for ten years straight.

I quit smoking 1 year, 2 months, and 22 days ago. The lesson I learned is this: don't turn up your nose at other people the way that I did. Be compassionate. Any one of us is a potential addict--whether the addiction is nicotine, drugs, alcohol, sex, or whatever. I thought I was "above" those stupid smokers....until I became one.

We are all human. Try to be helpful. Be compassionate.

[Angela]

Adam, my parents took the bull by the horns. They actually made me and my brothers take a drag on their own cigarette. It was awful for all three of us -- we hacked, got sick, turned grey. One brother and I grew up to be adamant non-smokers, and the other brother smokes to this day.

I believe I DID address the root of the question: why do people start smoking, even in light of its obviously being bad for you? One big reason: the diligent efforts of tobacco companies to manipulate young people through aggressive marketing that appeals to their little unconscious minds.

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but it had emphysema and I was beating the tar out of it.

[belugagirl]

Adam, I totally agree: for most kids, the threat of eventual horrid death from a related disease means little. What is it going to do to me NOW? That's the question whose answer may keep them away.

You made some good points about immediate and chronic consequences. I've got another that I'm sure would have an impact for most teens: it makes you unattractive to the opposite sex (for a host of reasons, like, how it will make you smell, how your kisses will taste, how it will affect your skin and appearance, and what it says about your level of independence from the crowd).

I remember an anti-smoking education commercial a few years back that did exactly what I had been thinking for a couple years that "someone" should do. It began with a pair of attractive teenagers making subtle, flirty eye contact across a room at a party. She begins walking in his direction with her friend. He takes out a cigarette and lights up. She makes a face of disgust to her friend, and they veer another way.

Yes, tell kids that smoking can make you ill and can kill, but once they're into puberty, also tell them it's a turnoff.

[The David]

Fortunately, I've never heard anyone say that smoking is a turn-on.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Angela

I believe I DID address the root of the question: why do people start smoking, even in light of its obviously being bad for you? One big reason: the diligent efforts of tobacco companies to manipulate young people through aggressive marketing that appeals to their little unconscious minds.

You're right... You did address one root of the problem. I was simply pointing out that, without all of the roots, each of the other roots would be ineffective. I didn't say that you were wrong... In fact, the first line of my post was agreeing with you. I just didn't think that it was constructive to only give responsibility to one small aspect of the entire problem. That's like saying that your liver is solely responsible for keeping you alive. Yes, it is vital to your survival, but it isn't they only organ that is vital. If every doctor in the world only treated liver problems, then there would be a lot of dead people walking around. Alright, yeah, so they wouldn't be walking around... but you get my point. Similarly, if we only gave responsibility for smoking to the advertisers, and ignored the responsibility of the manufacturers and people's personal responsibility, then it becomes much more difficult to reduce smoking.

I am a person who is quitting smoking. (Note: I am not a non-smoker, because they do not have cravings. I am not a smoker, because smokers succumb to their cravings. I am a quitter, because quitters successfully fight off their cravings. Please don't tell me to use a different word than 'quitter' so that I can use positive thinking, because to me, there is nothing more positive than a quitter. I know that nobody has pointed this out to me in this thread, but I have heard it so many times recently that I am getting *extremely* annoyed at it, so I thought I'd mention it before someone does put their foot in their mouth.)

Alright... back to what I was saying before I typed out that rant...

I am a person who is quitting smoking. I am not a victim. I am responsible for every single drag off of every single cigarette that I have taken. I was not unconscious while smoking, and I have never been threatened or forced into smoking. If I were a victim, I would not be able to quit. Victims do not have power, so do not have responsibility. I have power over my own life, so I am not a victim.

The cigarette manufacturing companies are not victims either. The people in those companies have the ability to choose whether they work there or not, so with power comes responsibility.

Nobody is a victim when it comes to smoking. (unless you believe the falsified studies from the EPA and WHO that have both been thrown out by every court that they have come before... Second hand smoking is, at best, very debatable as to whether the health risks can be measured or not.) You can't treat people as though they are victims, because that gives them the ability to give up their responsibility. When you're dealing with something as addictive as nicotine with such painful and deadly diseases associated with it, you can't let anybody give up their responsibility... In fact, as a person who is concerned about the health of your fellow humans, you can't give up your own responsibility for making sure that others keep their responsibility. If you tell a smoker that they are not responsible for their addiction, and they believe you, then you have just removed their only power to overcome the addiction. If you tell the people who work at the tobacco manufacturing companies that they are simply victims of the economy, and they have no choice but to take whatever job they can find (no matter how "evil"), then you are taking away their power to stand up for their own morality.

If I told anyone here that they can't fight against a big business like the tobacco manufacturers and advertisers, and they actually believed that lie, then I would be taking away their liberties by giving them fears. I can't do that. My purpose is to bring peace, no matter who that peace is for, and I can not bring anybody peace if I take their liberties or give them fear. The only way that I can bring people peace is to give them back their responsibilities, and saying that any one group, to the exclusion of any other, is responsible for anything goes against any hope of peace.

That, and I'm also working through a particularly long cigarette craving right now, so I just started rambling on and on... It certainly kept me occupied, for at least half an hour.

[Angela]

okay, Adam, I get your point. But I don't know how much personal responsibility you can assign to children, and I'm not willing to let the TobCo's off the hook for the vileness of being pushers to that, their most important demographic.

Lots of strength and peace to you in your intention to have clean, clear, powerful breath.

[Trina]

Originally Posted by yacapo

Are people just stupid or what?? I know it's hard to quit, but it's not hard to never start.

It's just unbelievable how freaking dumb human beings can be. We just don't learn from past mistakes. It's amazing!!!

Why do people drive cars? They are perfectly capable of walking where they need to go, or riding a bike. Car accidents rates increase all the time, along with fatality rates. Car exhaust is bad for everyone's health and is considered a contributor to lung disease. Why do humans have to immediately be equipped with any and all life lessons when they are born? Just because someone's choices are stupid doesn't mean they are stupid. It's called a learning process. Trial and error. Questioning authority and pushing the boundaries. HUMAN NATURE. So, if that's stupid to you, then YES we are stupid. LOL.

Originally Posted by yacapo

We keep treating kids like they're stupid and immature and they will keep acting this way. We need to stop EXPECTING kids to be stupid by saying their behavior makes sense. When you expect people to be stupid, that's exactly what they will become.

It's not that easy. LOL. You can't just *POOF* expect a kid to be perfect, let them know they have to be perfect, and then *BAM* they are perfect. You are one influence and you are fighting against the media, society, and peer pressure. What makes you think your logic is going to beat out the "logic" of all of those other influences when they have so many more opportunities to use that influence? I was raised by my grandparents because my mom was a drug addict. They expected a LOT more out of my sister and I than any of my friends parents do. We are both above average intelligence. We both grew up in a VERY loving and stable home. We both absolutely HATED cigarettes growing up, and used to take my moms cigarettes and throw them away when she would visit (which wasn't very often) which angered her to no end. BOTH of us are smokers now. We were raised in the exact manner that you think will stop the problem, and yet, we both did it. It's not that simple. You can't just teach kids things and because you taught them, they will never question it. It is human nature to question authority. That is one of the things that makes our species so great, and one of the main ways we learn and grow. Just because you push the boundaries doesn't mean you have a weak personality or someone must have raised you wrong. It means you are human. You want smoking to be gone, push for legislation outlawing it.

I am kinda surprised that brain chemistry hasn't come up in this topic at all. The prefrontal cortex, the area of the brain that is responsible for impulse control, is still developing into the early 20's, not to mention the hormones and body changes that would be hard enough for a full grown adult with developed powers of reasoning to deal with. Kids aren't stupid because they want to be stupid. I have never wanted to be stupid, have you? But when your brain isn't even fully developed yet and all of a sudden you have massive hormonal changes, is it so surprising that a few bad choices may be made? For those teenagers that get out without making a single stupid decision, well good for them. But most people don't!

I'm not saying it's okay or making excuses for anyone who smokes. I smoke and I would never blame anyone else for it. I know it's unhealthy, but I like it and I will quit when I am ready. I'm just saying, it takes more than a snap of the fingers and an idealistic philosophy to take away a problem. What are you doing to fix it besides venting on here?

[Angela]

Trina, about throwing your mom's cigarettes away -- I did that, too! It didn't work. I'm absolutely amazed that as much as people say they love their children, that love is not enough motivation to give up this horrible addiction. It wasn't enough for my parents, who both died ugly smoking-related deaths.

[SydneyDave]

Wow, the story of my smoking is almost exactly the same as skinnyninja, I actually started working with a guy who smoked and between that and some drunken nights on the town it took me about 4 months between taking my first drag and buying my first pack.

I knew the dangers involved. And I don't think I'm an 'idiot' either ... I graduated from a degree while working 3 jobs and I'd been tested as 138-145 IQ range on a proper test at a university some years earlier ...

Curiosity was definitely a major factor. And, because it is "uncool" to the general public, that kind of attracted me to it as well. I'm definitely not one to follow the general trends.

"Fortunately, I've never heard anyone say that smoking is a turn-on."
I have - in fact just over a year ago I was doing reasonably well with a quit attempt, and that got me going again, but I think I'd had one or two before that.

Now after being a pack a day smoker for the better part of 5 years, I haven't had a single cigarette since December 16th. And I stopped using patches 5 days ago. (I won't joke around, its tough).

[SydneyDave]

Originally Posted by Angela

as much as people say they love their children, that love is not enough motivation to give up this horrible addiction.

I'm very lucky to have parents that stopped as soon as they found out I was on the way. But it still didn't stop me from trying smoking...

[Andrew Brunelle]

The man from South Park was Rob Reiner, in case someone hasn't said anything about it yet. I don't have the willpower to plow through this entire thread, but I do have some input here. Lucky for me, I had a police officer come into my school when I was in fifth grade and tell us of the dangers of drugs and alcohol and cigarettes. I just think that now that we know that cigarettes are bad for you and addictive, that if you are not smoking now, to never start. It's an informed decision. It's up to you if you want to smoke or continue smoking. The consequences are out there and I'm sure many people who smoke don't want to live into their 100s. Not all of them, just many of the smokers I see here in the South, where I've been living for three years. It's a matter of personal choice and personal responsibility. Every cigarette pack you buy has a warning on it. You can choose to ignore it or choose to light up with the realization that this habit will ultimately kill you, barring some other earlier form of death. So, now that you know how bad it is for you, it's entirely up to you. Just don't blow the smoke in my face.