Breakfast - Not the weight loss fairy it's supposed to be?

[Atrox]

In any weight loss program, we are told to eat in the morning, because it will make a huge difference in our diet. We are constantly advised on the importance of a solid breakfast.

This is the theory.

But in practice - and I'm speaking strictly in regards to MY practice - I have observed a number of people with whom either I live, either are family, either are very close friends, and so on, which is to say I know them quite well. Those people who never have breakfast, are damn skinny, and have been so for all their life.

For instance, to give some random examples, a friend of mine: she never eats until 3-4 in the afternoon. Her last meal is somewhere at midnight, before going to bed. I have never seen her gain weight. A member of my family: he wakes up at about 5 a.m. every morning. His first meal is never earlier than at noon, so 7-8 hourse after he woke up. And I have a few more people in mind, but I will not develop further. I'm not saying that their lifestyle is great&healthy, I'm saying that they do not gain weight because they eat more in the evening as opposed to eating more in the morning.

The purpose of this thread is either 1) to validate my observations or to 2) invalidate them and point out where I'm wrong. At this point, the conclusion that I am drawing is that eating breakfast is not that important as it is claimed to be.

[ssandra]

From what I recently saw on tv (an australian show called "what is good for you, aired in Belgium on Vitaya") is that breakfast is important.

The reason is that scientist have discovered that you brain gets a boost from eating in the morning, and therefor you are more alert and capable of doing things. It also gives you more energy to go out and move instead of doing nothing.

So, of course there are people who do not eat breakfast and are thin. But.. everybody who can go for 7 / 8 hours without food I think has it more easy to be thin. Breakfast or no breakfast...

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Atrox

In any weight loss program, we are told to eat in the morning, because it will make a huge difference in our diet. We are constantly advised on the importance of a solid breakfast.

Yes, I have found it odd how diet programs push this idea of having breakfast - to get the metabolism going (whatever that means).

In the past, when I have had breakfast before I go to work, I have tended to put on weight (even though I was following a diet). Whether I have breakfast or not, I still feel hungry around 10 a.m.

Also, doing cardio on an empty stomach is supposed to be good for burning fat. So, by not having breakfast, doing a little exercise before having a snack at 10, I am burning fat!

Also, the less calories you have during the day, the more you can afford to eat and drink in the evening. Nothing worse than being starving at 8pm and you have already had your day's worth of calories!

However, I do enjoy a good fry-up at weekends (but not too early)!

[Orecle]

where to begin


First is natural speed of metabolism. You can have 2 people eat exactly the same foods for years and one will be fat and one will be thin. i have seen this with so many siblings. Speed of metabolism is the speed at which your body burns calories for the same job. Think of it like driving 100 miles in a porsche vs a 1.4 litre diesel. so sounds like the lady in question has a porsche metabolism

then, losing weight is primarily calories in vs calories out

Then, nutrient type ie if your calories are from carbs, proteins and fats. Then comes your activity level. Do you have a job that keeps you on your feet all day, heavy lifting or exertion

these 3 supersede what time you eat breakfast

but from experience, if you had 2 individuals both wanting to lose weight and one eight breakfast early and then an additional 3 - 4 small meals through out the day. then you had dieter number 2 eat in the late afternoon, lets say they both did cardio 3 -4 times weekly with abit of weight training.

results
the late eater will lose more muscle and strength and will have that skinny fat look. They are also more likely to binge eat at night time, and even if they dont they will have a harder time losing bodyfat because their body will be in survivor/ starvation mode. this is where your body assumes there is a famine since it has been a long time, since it has been fed. so if our dieter has their last meal at 10pm, then does not eat till 3 the following day, thats almost 17 hrs of starvation, so the body holds unto bodyfat just in case of famine and then turns lean muscle back into glucose for energy. this is why alot of people who starve themselves and then do crazy amounts of cardio, lose weight (muscle) but keep their stomachs (also why you see alot of vids of starving kids with big stomachs)Your body acheives this by slowing down your metabolism so it takes more activity to lose the weight (this is why alot of dieters find they start losing more weight when they increase their meals (sensibly) and their frequency.

Eating speeds up the metabolism (espiecally protein), for this reason it is better to eat in the morning

but make sure , you are taking in less calories, and the right type. also add in cardio which also massively speeds up metabolism. which is why athletes outeat a majority of obese people (alot of athletes eat junk food - Micheal phelps, usain bolt) and are still in terrific shape

[angies]

Check this out WarriorDiet - Home

I have been asking myself the same question. You can find the answer on this link. He even has a free e-book. I am not saying this diet is for everyone, but it works for me. Some people likes to eat 6 meals a day. Me I find it is troublesome and time consuming. 6 eals a days never work for me. I am just far to busy to plan and cook and pack and then remember to eat every 2-3 hours.

[Atrox]

Thanks for your answers!

ssandra - See, that's exactly what I was talking about. "We are told ", "we are constantly advised" - TV show counts as advised, doesn't it? What I want is personal experience and/or personal observation. But you are right about the 7/8 hours.

Cantando - Same here, it seems 10ish is a hunger hour no matter what.

Orecle - I can definitely see your point, there are many factors involved in losing weight. But none of the people whom I've set as an example work out and none live on lean proteins. I will accept the metabolism issue though, however small or big the difference it can make. I'm still at doubt about the starvation mode "everyone" is talking about.

angies - I did chek it out, thank you for the link! I can definitely see some sense into his method. Though one late meal per day might not be my thing, there are other ideas to be noted from the Warrior's Diet.

[rocksupreme]

Whether or not one eats breakfast is just one of about a million factors that determines one's health and wellness.

Nobody has every claimed that eating breakfast was like flipping a "skinny" switch. But eating the right things at the right times (varies according to who you are, where you are, and where you want to be) is one of the key ways to improve your health.

This kind of vast oversimplification is one reason for all the fad diets that people try and can't figure out why they're still fat.

For the record, my bodyfat fluctuates between 8 and 12 %, and I eat eggs, sausage, and butter every single morning. My cholesterol is low and my triglycerides are extremely low. I look at least five years younger than I am (and I ain't old). Is it because I eat breakfast? Probably not, but it certainly isn't hurting...

[vmiller]

It's a smart idea to have breakfast every day because it reduces physiological stress on your body. If you don't eat, it kicks in an adrenal response to break down your own tissue to provide energy. This is stress on your body and can lead to adrenal fatigue (which is bad news).

In regards to weight loss, when you skip meals, you can put your body into starvation mode which will cause it to preserve body fat and slow down metabolism. This is an evolutionary survival mechanism and will obviously make it more difficult to lose weight. Different people have different thresholds, so it's useless to go by what works for someone else. Along these lines, we all have unique nutritional needs, and this is why it's important to consider Metabolic Typing.

Finally, breakfast foods are traditionally very high in sugar and refined carbohydrates, and these foods are the absolute worst offenders for weight gain. Again, some people tolerate them better than others, which is why Metabolic Typing is important, but in general, they're not healthy for anyone. People who think they're helping themselves lose weight by having a bowl of cereal, a glass of orange juice and a piece of fruit are on the wrong path.

[James81]

The starvation mode thing is a myth.

The Starvation Myth

[vmiller]

Originally Posted by James81

The starvation mode thing is a myth.

The Starvation Myth

Perhaps I'd be more inclined to believe that if it didn't come from WeightWatchers ... the place that encourages you to have a beer instead of a steak based on their points system.

Science aside, think about this from an evolutionary perspective. We rely on body fat and muscle tissue to survive when we don't eat. The faster this process happens and depletes our remaining resources, the less time we have left to live.

Despite my bias against WeightWatchers, I am interested in reading more about this being a myth. Do you know of any other sources?

[James81]

Originally Posted by vmiller

Perhaps I'd be more inclined to believe that if it didn't come from WeightWatchers ... the place that encourages you to have a beer instead of a steak based on their points system.

Science aside, think about this from an evolutionary perspective. We rely on body fat and muscle tissue to survive when we don't eat. The faster this process happens and depletes our remaining resources, the less time we have left to live.

Despite my bias against WeightWatchers, I am interested in reading more about this being a myth. Do you know of any other sources?

Just found another one:

Nutrition Diva :: Metabolism Myths

Don't know how reputable that site is either (nutrition diva?? lol), but the arguements she raises seem sound.

But don't be so quick to discount weight watchers. There are a LOT of misconceptions floating around about them too.

[Aware]

Originally Posted by Atrox

In any weight loss program, we are told to eat in the morning, because it will make a huge difference in our diet. We are constantly advised on the importance of a solid breakfast.

This is the theory.

But in practice - and I'm speaking strictly in regards to MY practice - I have observed a number of people with whom either I live, either are family, either are very close friends, and so on, which is to say I know them quite well. Those people who never have breakfast, are damn skinny, and have been so for all their life.

For instance, to give some random examples, a friend of mine: she never eats until 3-4 in the afternoon. Her last meal is somewhere at midnight, before going to bed. I have never seen her gain weight. A member of my family: he wakes up at about 5 a.m. every morning. His first meal is never earlier than at noon, so 7-8 hourse after he woke up. And I have a few more people in mind, but I will not develop further. I'm not saying that their lifestyle is great&healthy, I'm saying that they do not gain weight because they eat more in the evening as opposed to eating more in the morning.

The purpose of this thread is either 1) to validate my observations or to 2) invalidate them and point out where I'm wrong. At this point, the conclusion that I am drawing is that eating breakfast is not that important as it is claimed to be.

That is because they eat when they are hungry, and if you eat breakfast when you don't need it OR for emotional reason's, it will be stored as fat/emotional fat.

[Eric Roosevelt]

Originally Posted by Orecle

First is natural speed of metabolism. You can have 2 people eat exactly the same foods for years and one will be fat and one will be thin. i have seen this with so many siblings.

Yes, and a lot of this is genetic. When we compare our eating habits and health with others we often forget that we were born different. It's good educate yourself about your diet and physiology, but at the end of the day we all have experiment until we find something that works for us.

Nobody is going to take your place, so you might as well do what you think is best for you. Personally I find breakfast to be essential.

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by James81

The starvation mode thing is a myth.

not true, this source admits starvation DOES slow it down.

The Starvation Myth

Originally Posted by James81

Just found another one:

Nutrition Diva :: Metabolism Myths

Don't know how reputable that site is either (nutrition diva?? lol), but the arguements she raises seem sound.

But don't be so quick to discount weight watchers. There are a LOT of misconceptions floating around about them too.

both quotes admit it slows down metabolism, the latter states it does not do it after 4 hrs like people fear, it takes 3 days, which I accept as truth

starvation mode is just a name and not literal. I promise you people who diet sporadically like that lose a great deal of muscle and water first before bodyfat, and then the fat loss halts

Lack of food definately slows down metabolism which is what the starvation mode is about. Does it litarally slow it down, No. Next time you watch a program with starving african orphans and their parents, you will notice the kids have big disdended stomachs and in many cases their mothers look fat, Why because of a slowed down metabolism from not eating regular.

I have personally seen alot of people lose weight, when they eat more and regularly. One of the fastest ways to plateau and not lose any fat on a diet is to exercise and barely eat, this is a fact.

If losing fat was as easy as starving yourself and then exercising alot of people would be happy, and lose several pounds of bodyfat weekly. How many people do you know lose several pounds of bodyfat, all the way to ripped abs from startving themselves?

[James81]

Originally Posted by Orecle

both quotes admit it slows down metabolism, the latter states it does not do it after 4 hrs like people fear, it takes 3 days, which I accept as truth

starvation mode is just a name and not literal. I promise you people who diet sporadically like that lose a great deal of muscle and water first before bodyfat, and then the fat loss halts

Lack of food definately slows down metabolism which is what the starvation mode is about. Does it litarally slow it down, No. Next time you watch a program with starving african orphans and their parents, you will notice the kids have big disdended stomachs and in many cases their mothers look fat, Why because of a slowed down metabolism from not eating regular.

I have personally seen alot of people lose weight, when they eat more and regularly. One of the fastest ways to plateau and not lose any fat on a diet is to exercise and barely eat, this is a fact.

If losing fat was as easy as starving yourself and then exercising alot of people would be happy, and lose several pounds of bodyfat weekly. How many people do you know lose several pounds of bodyfat, all the way to ripped abs from startving themselves?

You are pulling on extremes to support your position.

Nobody is saying to starve yourself to lose weight. If you accept that it takes 3 days for your body to go into "starvation mode," then someone who doesn't eat breakfast isn't going to slow their metabolism enough to make much of a difference. We're essentially talking about, at most, 12-15 hours between meals.

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by James81

You are pulling on extremes to support your position.

Nobody is saying to starve yourself to lose weight. If you accept that it takes 3 days for your body to go into "starvation mode," then someone who doesn't eat breakfast isn't going to slow their metabolism enough to make much of a difference. We're essentially talking about, at most, 12-15 hours between meals.

no, i am not. Waiting 12 - 15 hrs to eat will slow your metabolism to a crawl and will burn any muscle you have, guaranteed except in extreme mesomorphs

[sirkinm]

I think that some people will be skinny regardless of breakfast (a nutritionist might call them a high metabolizer"). However, I see overweight people making the same misstake:

Skip breakfast
Normal or light lunch
Big Dinner
Appetite gets out of control at night, and they snack like crazy

That's because they are leaving too big of a caloric deficit by the end of the day.

Personally, I'm from a family predisoposed to being overweight. I lost weight and have kept myself in my ideal range (no gut!), and an ample breakfast is key to me. I find that most breakfast recommendations (say, a grapefruit and bowl of oatmeal) are too modest.

I go for a big breakfast (it's my fave meal of the day!), and then I snack between b-fast and lunch. My appetite tapers down as I go throughout the day. I have a light dinner and snack and I'm good.

If I eat too little in the day, I tend to gorge myself by the day's end. People overestimate the role of will-power: If there is food in front of a hungry human, he will generally eat, despite all the resolutions to the contrary.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Orecle

no, i am not. Waiting 12 - 15 hrs to eat will slow your metabolism to a crawl and will burn any muscle you have, guaranteed except in extreme mesomorphs

Why would metabolism "slow to a crawl" just because you choose to eat later in the day?

Especially if you make a habit out of it. The more you repeat a behavior with your body, the more your body will adapt and adjust to that behavior.

And let's face it...weight loss is regulated by a simple formula:

calories in > calories out --->Gain weight
calories in =calories out ---->Maintain weight
calories in < calories out ---->Lose weight

That has very little to do with metabolism. Metabolism regulates the amount of activity you need to do or the amount of calories you take in to maintian/lose/gain weight.

Someone who eats 6 small meals a day at 2000 calories will see no difference than someone who eats 2 large meals a day at 2000 calories.

The same person eating the same amount of calories per day will not cause a noticeable shift in metabolism so long as the amount of calories coming in stays at the same rate everyday.

[Atrox]

Some really interesting replies!

One idea is slowly building up from your posts: that even more important than taking or not taking the breakfast is the habit of taking it or not taking it. A person who for years has been skipping breakfast will gain weight by suddenly eating a big meal in the morning. One who has a solid breakfast in the morning, will gain weight by suddenly eating more in the evening. The body simply adapts to what you give it, as long as you give it constantly, over a longer period of time.

rocksupreme - "But eating the right things at the right times (varies according to who you are, where you are, and where you want to be) is one of the key ways to improve your health. " - Care to expand that? Or point out where it has been already developed?

Eric Roosevelt - Absolutely, finding what works for you is essential. The problem with that is that you can't find out until you've tried many variants.

sirkinm - For me it's exactly the other way around. The bigger the breakfast, the more I need to eat during the day. It's like I'm setting a standard for how much my stomach is allowed to expand, right then in the morning. The downfall of this is that I'm feeling sluggish and tired all day. Skipping it is not a solution either. So my choice for the first meal of the day, for some time now, has been fruits and nothing else. After that the rest of the meals follow in a constant pace.

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by Orecle

no, i am not. Waiting 12 - 15 hrs to eat will slow your metabolism to a crawl and will burn any muscle you have, guaranteed except in extreme mesomorphs

If you usually eat crap and have a sedentary lifestyle, maybe this is accurate. BUT, I can tell you for a fact, that it is not true for me (former "skinny-fat," so NOT a mesomorph). I fast one day a week and burn fat every single time.

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by Atrox

rocksupreme - "But eating the right things at the right times (varies according to who you are, where you are, and where you want to be) is one of the key ways to improve your health. " - Care to expand that? Or point out where it has been already developed?

How much expansion do you want? I do private consulting for $100/hour, and others have written books on it.

The different macronutrients have different effects in various combinations and in proximity to sleep and exercise. These effects are more/less pronounced in bodies that are trained to utilize fuel in various ways, and also according to the individual's body composition (%fat vs muscle, etc.).

This much is not a mystery, I hope.

Diet is not arithmetic. Most people talk as if the things we eat are like a certain number of red and blue Legos being stacked and unstacked somewhere in the body. But that's BS.

There are a huge number of insanely complicated chemical reactions going on in the body. Everything plays a part: hormones, emotions, disease, rest, exercise, food, genetics, habit, social conditioning...

Anyone who tells you that activity X is always going to reliably result in a particular outcome for your body is lying. End of story.

[Atrox]

rocksupreme - Thank you, that was some interesting insight. And yes, you are right, most people do the red and blue Lego talk. The trouble is that it's hard to resist an aritmetic promise that you will lose weight.

So how much do I owe you for that post?

[James81]

Originally Posted by rocksupreme

If you usually eat crap and have a sedentary lifestyle, maybe this is accurate. BUT, I can tell you for a fact, that it is not true for me (former "skinny-fat," so NOT a mesomorph). I fast one day a week and burn fat every single time.

Fasting, in fact, is one of the most healthy things you can do for yourself.

[Orecle]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by James81

Why would metabolism "slow to a crawl" just because you choose to eat later in the day?

Especially if you make a habit out of it. The more you repeat a behavior with your body, the more your body will adapt and adjust to that behavior.

And let's face it...weight loss is regulated by a simple formula:

calories in > calories out --->Gain weight
calories in =calories out ---->Maintain weight
calories in < calories out ---->Lose weight

Yes weight loss (muscle, water and a little fat), but not pure fat loss

If you ate the same amount of calories, but different macronutrient amount you are going to have a drastically different affect.

Fat loss is not simply calories out vs calories in. Ever wonder why atkins and low carbs have allowed people and bodybuilders to lose fat at such rapid speeds? Regulation of insulin levels in your blood has a more important affect on speed of fat loss. Ie If you had 2000 cals from white rice, you will get a different affect than if you had it from pure meat, or pure fat

That has very little to do with metabolism. Metabolism regulates the amount of activity you need to do or the amount of calories you take in to maintian/lose/gain weight.

Someone who eats 6 small meals a day at 2000 calories will see no difference than someone who eats 2 large meals a day at 2000 calories.

Again not true, For one, the person with 6 meals would use alot more protein for muscle growth, since the body cannot store protein.
The carbs the body cannot use for glycogen replenishment will be stored as bodyfat.

So by your logic, If I ate 6000 cals evry 3 days, it will be the same (fat loss wise ) as 6 times daily?

[Andrew Brunelle]

A nutritious and healthy breakfast is the way to start a day, whether or not you are overweight or too thin. But if you are not hungry in the morning, wait until you are to have that healthy breakfast. Most people who are overweight either eat more than they should or eat when they are not hungry. Some people are more predisposed to eat more and some people are predisposed to gaining weight following the same diet. It's not just about calories, but good, healthy calories. People who count calories are wasting their time if they are eating unhealthy ones.

I've read and tried out a lot of different approaches to diet and when to eat/how much to eat and I find that eating 4-6 small meals instead of eating 2-3 big meals is the way to go because it keeps your metabolism going all hours of the day up until you go to bed. I lost 10 pounds doing this for 3 months and different variations on diet brought be back up 5-8 pounds at different times. What I was doing for breakfast when I lost 10 lbs was I had 2 apples first, then waited 30 minutes and had Kashi GoLean Crunch cereal. I didn't have much weight to lose to begin with at 6'1" and 180 to start, but now I can say that I'm about as thin as I can get while still staying healthy.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Orecle

So by your logic, If I ate 6000 cals evry 3 days, it will be the same (fat loss wise ) as 6 times daily?

No, because we established that after 3 days, the body enters starvation mode and stores fat more rapidly, remember?

We also established (by the two links I posted above), that the body won't enter starvation mode after a mere 12 hours. Nor will metabolism change that much.

Again, you reach to extremes to try and make a point.

[arogyam]

I guess Breakfast is one of the necessary thing for the diet.

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by Atrox

rocksupreme - Thank you, that was some interesting insight. And yes, you are right, most people do the red and blue Lego talk. The trouble is that it's hard to resist an aritmetic promise that you will lose weight.

So how much do I owe you for that post?

I'm glad to help. This one is on the house...

(And I really am happy you got the analogy - it's tough to find a way to explain this stuff without getting too technical.)

[Adarius100]

The American Dietetic Association says breakfast is the most important meal of the day.Despite the healthful benefits, breakfast may be the meal that is most often neglected or skipped. Eating breakfast not only aids in weight management, it fuels the body to help provide energy, better concentration and problem-solving ability throughout the day, according to the food and nutrition experts at the American Dietetic Association. Forty years of breakfast related studies show that jump starting the day with breakfast benefits everyone -- children, teens and adults. "Eating breakfast is very important for the brain and the body first thing in the morning".

______________________
Online money management

[Atrox]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

But if you are not hungry in the morning, wait until you are to have that healthy breakfast. Most people who are overweight either eat more than they should or eat when they are not hungry.

That, to me, is a very sensible statement. It has certainly worked for me and one of the hardest things to do in order to gradually lose weight and maintain what you have lost is to stop overeating, or even better, stop before you're full on a constant basis.