Busting Belly Fat

[Manomanman]

Hey gang,

I set a goal earlier this year to reduce my waistline back down to a size 30 (my pre-20's size) from something like a 34-36. Being in grad school has packed on some unwanted flubber down there. It's shaped like a "Santa Claus" belly, pretty round and when I squeeze it all together, it's a mound of fat the size of a softball concentrated right around my bellybutton. I also have fatty flanks on both sides of my waist.

Anyway, I started doing a lot of low impact cardio about a month ago, and have held to a 5-workout a week routine. My average time is about 35 minutes, and my average intensity is about 125-130BPM heartrate. I focus on "calories burned" estimates that I get from integrating chart information with machine information. I burn 300 three days a week, and 375 two days a week. To acquire this awesome habit, I simply used Steve Pavlina's identity shift method, and have not looked back.

This week, after a month of steady workouts, I am able to get my heart rate into the 145 range without suffering pain, and my lactic acid levels are extremely low. Additionally, my endurance is going up a lot. I have not yet seen substantial fat loss, however (the fatty area feels "lighter" but the fat bodies are still fully-engorged).

I haven't changed much in the way of my diet - I avoid all processes food and all dairy. I mostly eat a "healthy" SAD, with turkey/hummus/cucumber sandwiches for lunch, and a lean meat dinner like turkey meat spaghetti with lots of veggies or crispy orange chicken stir fry with no stirfry oil and lots of veggies. (I will make the vegan switch within 2 or 3 months).

My family is all fat, due to munching on processes food, inactivity, stress, and bad genes. I'm the thinnest person in my extended family. But I'm also the only one who has ever worked out regularly. Ethnically, I come from an Anglo background of tall and sinewy people. We tend to be a little bit grissly, but not obese or porky. I do not believe genetics determine my potential, but they do serve as a cautionary tale for how hard I must work.

I'm getting my own 1br apartment in June, which will reduce my stress a lot.

Questions: In the LONG TERM, what things can I do knock this fat off my tummy and keep it off? Will I see the best results when my overall stress is lower? Should I increase how hard I work out? And will the results not show up until I switch to mostly-raw vegan? How long after repeating the current routine should I expect results - if I don't see measurable loss in another month, should I begin tweaking what I'm doing, or just be patient?

I'm interested primarily in FAT loss at this point - everything else on my body is great. In other words, I want to have a tight body (i.e. stripper body), which will make me fell a LOT better physically.

[rocksupreme]

I would suggest gradually replacing your low-impact cardio with higher-intensity sessions. For example, run (or bike, or whatever) at a sprint pace for as long as you can keep it up (30 seconds or so is fine), then slow down to a slower pace for a minute to recover. Repeat for ten to fifteen minutes. You'll burn more calories in less time this way, but it's harder.

Start with one session a week. Then another. Try for three sessions at high intensity each week - with a day or two between them for recovery. You can keep doing low-impact cardio too (since it's a habit, and you've probably come to enjoy it).

Also look in to cutting back on the refined grains like bread and pasta. They're delicious, and I love them, but they cause fat storage in the body. Try to focus on meat and veggies for most of your calories (and fish or whatever else you like eating) and only eat bread, pasta, or rice once a day max. Cut out any sodas or candies (or just cut back if you really, really enjoy them).

Also, you should know that you can't just burn belly fat. Fat loss is generalized in the body. If you tend to store fat on your belly, that may be the last place to show signs of reduction. You may even see it in your face first. Don't give up because your waist doesn't change - you are probably making progress.

Keep up the good work and stay positive. Your effort so far is going to make things easier for you when you optimize your diet and workouts. Keep changes gradual.

[David Cain]

I highly recommend investigating kettlebells, if fat loss is what you're after.

DragonDoor.com is the hub for kettlebellers, and once you see their results, you'll never want to waste your time with run-of-the-mill cardio again. I never really enjoyed working out until I discovered kettlebells, and I'm never going back to ordinary hum-drum stairmasters and treadmills.

The person who introduced me to kettlebells lost almost two hundred pounds in a year (he was 365 to begin with), and now he is strong as an ox and he simply does not ever get out of breath. He's advanced to VO2max training, but he's become a superman in about 12 months.

I'm not working as intensely but I've seen huge improvements in a short time. I'm starting to get cut. I look awesome naked now.

With KBs there is no need to work out for 30 or 35 minutes at a time. Ten or twelve minutes will leave you absolutely smoked. Your legs, abs and back will grow rock hard. Kettlebells are great at conditioning the connective tissues and joints, and they're fun!

Using kettlebells, I have rehabbed the shoulders I thought I had wrecked permanently in a snowboarding accident. I couldn't throw a football for years, and now I can do it again, painlessly.

I can't believe I used to grind out 30 boring minutes on the stairmaster. Never again. I work out six days a week for a total of maybe 75 minutes. It's short and intense and fun. It doesn't only burn fat, it makes you tough as nails. You'll see what I mean.

Take a look at dragondoor, those people really know what they're doing and they have a great forum.

[Manomanman]

ROFL, kettlebells look intense! I don't consider my cardio workouts to be a grind. On the contrary, I jump out of bed every morning unable to contain my excitement for the next workout.

I mix up bike machines, eliptical machines, ergometer/rowing machines. I'm about to throw in some circuit training stuff.

I've avoided the intense workout stuff thus far due to pain levels - if something is really painful, it will cause a lot of aching which forces me to quit prematurely. The low-impact has worked to get my general fitness up to a level that will allow me to do some higher-impact stuff, which I will begin probably next week.

Edit: I've been looking into raw foodism for some time now, and I believe that long-term cleaning over several months, mixed with de-stressification will allow me achieve a MUCH more ideal physical form.

[wayne60618]

there's nothing wrong with what you are doing...If you are losing weight. If not, you need to change. It's simply a matter of calories in vs. calories expended.

Someone mentioned that you should up your intensity. That may be an answer, or it may not be worthwhile at all. Higher intensity efforts are great for conditioning. If you do a sport, you'll get a lot out of them. For fat loss, they have their place, but you are best served with burning max calories.

However, this gets confusing, because there are calories burned while you exercise and there a re calories burned while not exercising. That's one of the reasons why weight training is a good addition to your routine. You'll burn more calories by adding muscle. About another 40-50 cals a day from adding a pound of muscle.

If your concern is only to burn calories while you run, you should try to be just below your anaerobic threshold. This will allow you to run for a while without completely gassing, but at a rate that is fast enough to really make you work and burn calories. Don't do this everyday though, you'll burn out.

Wayne

[silicon toad2000]

for any results you need to work as hard on your nutrition as you do on your workouts. I would go as far as suggesting replacing one workout with a nutrition planning and learning session every week.
Look at things like eating small snacks every 2-3 hours to keep the metabolism bubbling along. macronutrient portions, total calorie consumption...

[sirkinm]

Kettlebells are great and when I was working out with them, I felt awesome. I especially like how I had to work up a bit of callousness in my formarm to handle it -- I felt like I was being manly :-)

I'm buying a weighted vest, and I'm hoping it takes off that last layer o' fat.

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by wayne60618

there's nothing wrong with what you are doing...If you are losing weight. If not, you need to change. It's simply a matter of calories in vs. calories expended.

I switched to higher resistance 2 days a week, something like moving from an 8 to a 12 resistance level on most machines. I come away feeling like I've done more intensive muscle workout. Rowing machines build this vigor too, but they destroy your back if you've got pain already.

I like these theoretical explanations, esp. the idea of burning calories when not working out. Stuff like that makes sense. I'm still in the VERY early phases of working out. I'm not expecting my body to start burning large amounts of fat for another 1.5 months. If I get to mid-May and I haven't seen results, then I'll start tweaking hardcore. I won't be discouraged at any point, because I ENJOY what I'm doing, and at the very minimum I'm 1) listening to uplifting podcasts, when I otherwise wouldn't be, 2) sweating out crap from lymph nodes, 3) improving cardio.

The thing is, a LOT of changes are happening in my life, along with the exercise. I've reduced my stress by about 50% in the last couple of months, and it's getting lower by the day. This make working out less painful. In addition, I got a juicer and have been downing a glass every morning. Also, I've been taking Omega 3 and some other stuff I probably need more of.

I think using a holistic approach, with diet, exercise, mental health, and spiritual health combined, I can achieve a more desirable physical form. I think you've gotta have the spiritual side, or your body won't "find the purpose" in doing the overall task of becoming healthier. In other words, the fat burning is a desired end of exercising, but there's a lot more to life than having a well-shaped body. If the body shapes comes naturally, without struggle, then I feel I will have succeeded.

[rocksupreme]

That's Great! It seems like you're on the right track.

Gradually adding some higher intensity, working with diet, building some muscle - all of these things will help you get where you want to be. You're doing it right by keeping your expectations realistic and taking small steps.

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by silicon toad2000

Look at things like eating small snacks every 2-3 hours to keep the metabolism bubbling along.

The research on this is still pretty contradictory. Some people swear by it; some say it doesn't help. I think there are too many factors involved to blindly assert that meal frequency makes much difference on its own. The composition of those meals and their timing around workouts makes more difference IMO.

Still, I would avoid trying to turn this into rocket science (because the working of the body are probably much, much more complicated than rocket science). Eat good food, workout, sleep, be happy. That's the fastest way to make improvements, and it doesn't require too many planning sessions (not that planning is bad, but action gets more results).

[ginkgo]

There is a lot of bad information out there. It has made America the fattest society ever. But it makes food companies and diet companies rich. Learn why salt, black coffee, salt, lean meat, salt, non-fat yogurt and salt are so fattening. SALT HAS NO CALORIES. Nourish your body thin, instead of starving it fat. Never cut carbs, fats and calories.

Eat foods made by nature, not man-made food designed to make you fat and addicted to food. Which has more calories: a plain potato or one with a healthy fat like olive oil? The latter. Which is more fattening? The former. How can this be? The fat slows down the calories going into the blood (see glycemic load and glycemic index) making it less fattening. It is not about how many calories but how fast they enter the blood.

Mark Hyman, MD,
editor in chief of the medical journal Alternatives in Health and Medicine says (in Bottom Line Yearbook 2008), "Myth 1: The less you eat, the more weight you'll lose.... In my experience, the average person who goes on a diet actually gains 5 pound instead of losing weight. Never go on a "diet." Instead eat foods that turn on your metabolism. These are whole foods that come from nature, such as vegetables, fruits, whole grains, nuts, seeds, beans...."

Myth 3: You can control your weight by counting calories.... Losing weight is not about counting calories-- it's about eating the right calories.... Myth 4: Eating fat makes you fat.... Myth 5: Going low-carbohydrate makes you thin. Carbohydrates are the the single most important food that you can eat for long term health and weight loss.... However, just as there are different fats, there are different types of carbohydrates."

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Carbohydrates are the the single most important food that you can eat for long term health and weight loss....

This may be quoted from a doctor, but... Carbohydrates are not a type of food; they are a macronutrient life protein and fat. Saying that carbohydrate is more important than fat or protein is, simply put, not true.

I do agree that most of the nutrition and diet advice thrown around by the mainstream media is misleading and possibly unhealthy. But the way to counter that is not sensationalism. It's not possible to make a claim that one food is more "fattening" than another food because no single food works in a vacuum to produce that result.

Please explain to me how black coffee is fattening. By what mechanism does drinking black coffee (in and of itself) cause excess fat storage?

[Manomanman]

I was bitching in another thread about how worthless science is. It just blows my mind that "science" has failed to give us an answer to this simple question: is eating 5 times a day better for weight loss than eating 3 times a day, all things being equals?

Science disgusts me. I'm going to use an empirical method - it's called the quasi-experiment. You measure your baseline, you change 1 thing, see how it works, change 1 more thing, see how it works. That's the ONLY thing we have to go on in this modern world.

Screw science, I'm relying on theory.

The raw food vegan diet makes sense. Cooking = bad. Human = frugavore/herbivore. Nutrients = good. Eat lots of nuts, beans, berries, fruit, and vegetables. Twiddling around with these small, trivial micromanagement questions pisses me off to no end. Basic, conceptual, theory-based approaches ALWAYS beat the "conventional" wisdom or advice of doctors.

[sirkinm]

Originally Posted by rocksupreme

By what mechanism does drinking black coffee (in and of itself) cause excess fat storage?

I'd also like to know this. But then, I've learned to take whatever Ginkgo writes with a grain of ("so fattening") salt. As Yoda might say, the force (of discerning fact from wild conjecture) is weak in this one.

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

Science disgusts me. I'm going to use an empirical method - it's called the quasi-experiment. You measure your baseline, you change 1 thing, see how it works, change 1 more thing, see how it works. That's the ONLY thing we have to go on in this modern world.

Screw science, I'm relying on theory.

Wow, you really have no idea what science is, do you? Good science is rigorous empiricism. Where do you think theories come from anyway?

The thing to keep in mind is that doing all these experiments costs money. Who has money? People and groups with biases - people who would love to see the experiment turn out in favor of their product, dogma, or agenda.

How does cooking=bad? Learning to cook food was a major fulcrum in the development of primitive man. It meant we could eat less and gave out brains the essential fats to develop as they did. Don't tell me cavemen were munching flaxseed for omega-3s.

Theory is great if it's based on good science, but you can't just believe any crap you read in USA Today - you have to investigate the methods and biases of any study you take to heart.

The problem is not science - it's people who are too lazy to think critically.

[AlexL]

Some interesting points of view in this thread. I find myself mostly agreeing with rocksupreme here. I've just put up a post on my own blog (link below) called "The Truth About How To Lose Weight" that addresses a number of the questions raised here about the science behind how to lose weight. It's based on the advice I give my own patients who want to lose weight. All facts presented come from my review of the medical literature. It's not the ultimate final answer on nutrition and exercise, but I think you'll find it helpful.

Alex
Happiness in this World

[ReinventingMe]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

It's shaped like a "Santa Claus" belly, pretty round and when I squeeze it all together, it's a mound of fat the size of a softball concentrated right around my bellybutton. I also have fatty flanks on both sides of my waist.

Originally Posted by Manomanman

I haven't changed much in the way of my diet - I avoid all processes food and all dairy. I mostly eat a "healthy" SAD, with turkey/hummus/cucumber sandwiches for lunch, and a lean meat dinner like turkey meat spaghetti with lots of veggies or crispy orange chicken stir fry with no stirfry oil and lots of veggies. (I will make the vegan switch within 2 or 3 months).

I can't offer you anything but my own experience. When I eat anything that's processed I notice I get what I call "the marshmallow" - similar to what you describe around the belly button and flanks. The more/longer I eat anything processed the bigger the marshmallow - we are talking about inches overnight that will go away in 1 or 2 days, so really, in my case I don't think it's fat.
I still eat meat, and cooked foods - but more and more I'm eating mostly raw or steamed with the exception of meat, and maybe 1 time a month I eat out. I make almost everything I eat from the raw (natural?)ingredients. The exceptions being coffee, tea, olive oil, bran cereal, and rarely bread yeast & flour (I don't use sugar or dairy). I'm not extreme about it, or think it's the best way to eat. It is just working for me and I feel better. I imagine I'll gradually progress to completely raw at some point

Maybe I'm sensitive/allergic to some additive in processed food. I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out.

Maybe you are eating more processed food than you think if you are getting the turkey from the deli meats, the Hummus from a container, ready made bread, or your crispy orange chicken from a takeout.

Could be worth experimenting...

[ivo]

ReinventingMe: What you're talking about may be water buildup due to the excess salt or an 'alergic' reaction (for lack of a better word) to additives/preservatives and other such toxins in the food.

Manomanman: I would also suggest using a pulse meter as a guide while you're doing your everyday activities e.g. walking from place to place. You could combine walking with jogging to stay in your target heart rate zone longer. It would also help you pace youself so that you can get the most out of your workout without exhausting youself quickly. Bicycling is also great, especially if you have a lot of extra skin that could be damaged from all the jumping aroung while jogging etc. With a little smart work with the gears you can keep youself in your target zone for extended periods and the rushing air will keep you cool so you don't feel so tired. Plus, it's great fun :-)

[bigadam]

To the OP - can you point me to Steve's "identity shift method" that you mentioned?

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by bigadam

To the OP - can you point me to Steve's "identity shift method" that you mentioned?

I think it's podcast #18. It's dead on. You can't achieve a life-changing goal without becoming a person congruent with the outcome. For example, you may change one belief, like, "I now believe I am too fat," but if you don't change all the other hidden beliefs along with it, you can't change. For example, on making money, "I now believe I am not rich enough...but I still believe you have to work like a dog for every penny, and that money is evil." You won't evolve unless your entire belief system or world view is congruent with the outcome you desire.

I used to believe working out was "work", but it has become fun now.

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by ReinventingMe

Maybe I'm sensitive/allergic to some additive in processed food. I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out.

Maybe you are eating more processed food than you think if you are getting the turkey from the deli meats, the Hummus from a container, ready made bread, or your crispy orange chicken from a takeout.

Could be worth experimenting...

I think you're right on here. The food we eat is more processed than we can even imagine, even if it comes from a "health food" source.

I've already upped my raw intake, from 1 banana a day to 3. I also bought some fruit I've never eaten before, so I don't get worn out on bananas. And finally, I've added raw nuts into my diet.

I have reduced my normal meat portions by about 30% as a result. I think this will help my weight loss along. And it's all been EASY going so far!!! (No diarrhea or exhaustion or anything.)

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by rocksupreme

Wow, you really have no idea what science is, do you? Good science is rigorous empiricism. Where do you think theories come from anyway?

I'm oversimplifying, but like you said, profit drives research in today's world. And therefore, we must dig through and sort out the BS from the truth ourselves on EVERY issue. The Internet is slowly teasing these things apart, but no clear direction seems to be emerging, absent of A LOT OF PEOPLE swearing by alternatives to mainstream health advice.

The point is, good research is fine and will typically demonstrate some kind of narrow truth about some small and trivial question, but it's still tainted by the profit motive of the researcher in question. And these results rarely go to answer larger questions like, "Which diet is better?"

If science were a benevolent institution, we'd have clear-cut answers to these diet and exercise questions by now.

[WhiteCrow]

I have not read the other people's posts, but this is what has worked for me and my clients, and I will tell you the scientific reasoning behind it:

Diet

1. High protein diet.

Protein is most thermogenic, so it burns the most calories while being digested. It is also the building block for muscle, and more muscle is more calorie burning. Third, it is really hard for the body to use muscle as energy (gluconeogenesis), so you will not get fat from it, if you do point 2 right.

2. High fat diet.

Your diet should be higher in fat, because the body tends to use the macronutritient it gets the most of as fuel. And you want to be burning fat.

3. Low carb diet.

High fat, low carb, as carbohydrates tend to stimulate the biggest insuline spike, and insuline BLOCKS fat burning. Some guy above said that th speed of foods entering your blood stream is important. He is right, so pay attention to 4.

4. High fiber diet (30gr or more a day)

Fibers slow down the digestion, making nutritients etnter the blood slowly. Besides that they detoxify your system.

5. Nutritient timing and combining

The last advice I can give you is to avoid making meals with a lot of fat AND carbs in it. Make combinations of either proteins + carbs or proteins + fat. Never ever FAT + CARBS.

At last, eat the most of your carbs AFTER you workout, OR at breakfast.

Exercise

I can be simple about this. It depends on your fitness level, but if you can manage, 3 weightlifting days (whole body) and 2 H.I.I.T (High Intensity Interval Training).

If you cannot, reduce the intensity of the cardio and just do 2 lifting days.

With this plan you (and everyone else) will lose fat and not muscle. It literally cannot be done faster, but it ofcourse takes a lot. Good luck!

[Manomanman]

Update:

Based on what I'm hearing from people, in addition to some of my observations at the gym, I'm going to start tweaking my routine:

1. As of this Friday, I'll be doing circuit training 3 days a week (M, W, F). I will be doing the entire circuit, around 30 machines, for approx 1 minute each. I will put on enough resistance to feel slight muscle burning at the end of the minute, at which point I'll move to the next machine. My goal is to increase muscle tone without straining the muscle groups, while keeping my heart-rate around 130 the entire time. I anticipate burning 400 or so calories this way. The other 2 days, I will do light cardio (300 calories @ 125bpm) in order to keep my 5-day routine going.

My reasoning: the people in the weight room seem healthier, thinner, and more toned. The people on the cardio machines are all overweight. They sweat a lot, and the ones who seem to have been at it a long time are "stringy" rather than toned. Evolutionarily, it would stand to reason that humans were meant to do a mix of exercises, not just walking a lot and getting lanky.

I don't know if I would have been able to make it this far in my training if I hadn't started with something easy, like low-impact cardio, as I would have become light-headed and sick while doing the circuit training. But at some point, I think you've got to ween yourself off the cardio and start doing something with greater resistance if you don't want to end up a string bean.

2. I've begun reducing the amount of processed foods I'm taking in, and I'm migrating toward a more natural/raw diet. More details to come.

I can start to see the beginning stages of fat cell shrinkage on my abdomen. It's not exteme loss, but it's not as "bloated" as it was at the beginning of February.


Another question: Would preceding the workout with 1.5 tablespoons of Omega 3 fish oil be a good idea?

[ivo]

Originally Posted by WhiteCrow

I have not read the other people's posts, but this is what has worked for me and my clients, and I will tell you the scientific reasoning behind it:

Diet

1. High protein diet.

Protein is most thermogenic,

. . . .

. . . .

With this plan you (and everyone else) will lose fat and not muscle. It literally cannot be done faster, but it ofcourse takes a lot. Good luck!

This is a great short explanation of something I've been trying to understand for a very long time. I'm definitely going to print this out, Thanks.

[rocksupreme]

@Manomanman: OK, now I get where you're coming from.
@WhiteCrow: That's a good breakdown. Thanks for putting it all so simply.

[WhiteCrow]

Another question: Would preceding the workout with 1.5 tablespoons of Omega 3 fish oil be a good idea?

I would not take them right before training, as it makes you burp and that might interrupt training. You should take a table spoon with every meal you eat, as the omega 3 make your body digest the food in the most beautiful way. The fat you eat will be burned, and the carbs you eat will be stored in muscle. Omega 3 is great