Post your polyphasic sleep logs here

[JoeBlogs]

I overslept badly today due to staying out until very late last night. I'm going to resume my biphasic sleeping from tonight.

[Ati]

--Well, first of all one must remember the tryptophan in turkey !!

--Forgot to even set alarm last night and didn't awaken til called by hospital at 730am, had to go in.

--I find that the biggest thing that "gets in the way" of this is social--there are things I like to do with friends and family. My daughter's home for the Tday weekend....and except for my being on call we're off and doing things 'round the house for the weekend.

--It is a good thing, that I have these things . It also means that I will need to pay attention to three things, as I am thinking abt this now: 1) easy, rapid transition from free sleeping times because of various social "interruptions", back to my biphasic schedule --that should be very possible; 2) preparation and pre-planning for these sorts of occasions, best I can; 3) keeping to 90 minute cycles one way or another probably a good thing...

11/24 Friday Day 10 Nap (11/23) 530-700P; TurkeyNight 1130-730A [1:30 + 8:00hrs = 9:30hrs(!!!)/570m/6Cycles PLUS 30 min

11/23 Thursday Day 9(am) Nap (yesterday) 330-500P; Night 1115-345A
[1:30 + 4:30h = 6hrs /360m/ 4Cycles
11/20 Monday Day 7 Nap 5-630P Nightsleep (oops!) 1130-530A (didn't wake on my own, didn't hear the alarm cat didn't either ) [1:30 +6:00hrs =7:30 hrs]
11/19 Sunday Day 6 no nap: Nightsleep 11P-345A [4:45 hrs] (3~+ cycles)
11/18 Saturday Day 5 NO NAP; Nightsleep 130AM-800A [6.5 hrs]
11/17 Friday Day 4 Nap 4-450P awakened by early arrival of one guest: Nightsleep 1230P-7:30AM [:50 + 7hrs=7:50hrs, but freesleeping, pretty much]
11/16 Thursday Day 3 Nap 615-745P; Nightsleep 1115P-345A [1:30 + 4:30 hrs=6hrs]
11/15 Wednesday Day 2 Nap ("Nap") 800-1100PM then to bed
Nightsleep 1130-345AM---3:00hrs + 4:15 hrs//Total: 7:15hrs
11/14 Tuesday Day 1 Nap (++) 730-1030PM---3:00
Nightsleep 1130-400AM---4:30hrs// Total: 7:30hrs
11/13 Monday Start, with first Nap) 630-800PM---1:30hrs
Nightsleep 1130-400AM--4:30hrs total ending in am: 6hrs

90 min Cycles: 1=1:30hrs; 2=3:00hrs; 3=4:30hrs; 4=6:00hrs; 5=7:30hrs

Originally Posted by David Hausladen

Biphasic Sleep, Day 6
I've been having trouble getting to sleep quickly in my core sleep, and I've been thinking that I need to add some time to the beginning of each sleep period so that I actually sleep for the right durations in each sleep period. I'm thinking I'll actually keep the sleep periods the same but add a 30-minute block of reading-in-bed time before each of them. This will ensure that I can fall asleep quickly every time. And if I fall asleep early for a sleep period, it won't be as harmful as falling asleep late (falling asleep up to 30 minutes early means I wake up within the first 30 minutes of a new sleep cycle—Stage 1 and 2 sleep—which is much easier than falling asleep up to 30 minutes late and waking up in the last 30 minutes of a sleep cycle—Stage 4 sleep and REM sleep.

I need to post my logs earlier in the day; I've once again passed my scheduled bedtime (doh!). I'll schedule my sleep from 2am to 5am for tonight to stick with the "90-minute multiples" rule (plus, of course, the new 30-minute reading-in-bed period from 1:30am to 2am).

I do this, David, most of the time and I think it's real good. Also helps to make sure I get to bed on time to aim a little earlier. Trying to hit 11:15PM for sleep as close as possible, give or take a little.

Originally Posted by JoeBlogs

I overslept badly today due to staying out until very late last night. I'm going to resume my biphasic sleeping from tonight.

And just like my experience, I think this is really natural. We are social beings and there are other things which "get in the way". We don't really want to be automatons do we?

So finding out the best way to have the best of both worlds seems the thing to do.

[David Hausladen]

Biphasic Sleep, Day 7

The good news is I had no oversleeping today. I probably could have made it through the morning with no problems if I hadn't gotten bored (didn't have anything to do this morning) and decided to take a half-hour nap...following by another half-hour nap...and another. It shouldn't interfere with adaptation too much, but I still want to get through the morning without those short naps.

Tonight I'm trying the half-hour of reading before bed to help me fall asleep easily, so tonight's rest should be the best I've had thus far on this schedule--I'm very much looking forward to it.

Actually, I'd better get to that now!

[Ati]

That was weird....Yesterday, I came back from the hospital at just before noon and was really sleepy. Still the turkey??? Thought about that and it didn't make any sense at all, since I'd had so much sleep the night before, but there it was...So went ahead with a 90 minute nap wondering just how that would go.

We're taking the weekend more or less off except my hospital rounds, so a lot of freely schedule-able time these few days.

Woke up just before the ringer at 89 minutes , had plenty of energy the rest of the day, to sleep at 11:15P and up on time at 3:45 this morning.

Well, even if morning naps are the best for me physiologically, I'm not sure I want to turn other people's worlds upside down to accomplish that bit of scheduling ! (I guess a nap at noon is a good 8 hours into the day for me, so if I was getting up at 7am, I'd be getting that nap in at 3)

David, I've read somewhere that morning might be a good time for naps...have you ever tried doing your naps in the morning routinely, or are you like me and it wouldn't work schedule wise?

Strategy next couple days will be to try to stick with 430-6 as nap time, see how that feels. I'm thinking that for both nightsleep and naps, it might be a good idea to have a set time, then if something gets in the way, adjust to that with emphasis on the 90 minute blocks...


11/25 Saturday Day 11 Nap (11/24) 12N-130P ; Night 1115-345A [1:30 + 4:30 = 6:00hrs/ 4Cycles]

11/24 Friday Day 10 Nap (11/23) 530-700P; TurkeyNight 1130-730A [1:30 + 8:00hrs = 9:30hrs(!!!)/570m/6Cycles PLUS 30 min
11/23 Thursday Day 9(am) Nap (yesterday) 330-500P; Night 1115-345A
[1:30 + 4:30h = 6hrs /360m/ 4Cycles
11/20 Monday Day 7 Nap 5-630P Nightsleep (oops!) 1130-530A (didn't wake on my own, didn't hear the alarm cat didn't either ) [1:30 +6:00hrs =7:30 hrs]
11/19 Sunday Day 6 no nap: Nightsleep 11P-345A [4:45 hrs] (3~+ cycles)
11/18 Saturday Day 5 NO NAP; Nightsleep 130AM-800A [6.5 hrs]
11/17 Friday Day 4 Nap 4-450P awakened by early arrival of one guest: Nightsleep 1230P-7:30AM [:50 + 7hrs=7:50hrs, but freesleeping, pretty much]
11/16 Thursday Day 3 Nap 615-745P; Nightsleep 1115P-345A [1:30 + 4:30 hrs=6hrs]
11/15 Wednesday Day 2 Nap ("Nap") 800-1100PM then to bed
Nightsleep 1130-345AM---3:00hrs + 4:15 hrs//Total: 7:15hrs
11/14 Tuesday Day 1 Nap (++) 730-1030PM---3:00
Nightsleep 1130-400AM---4:30hrs// Total: 7:30hrs
11/13 Monday Start, with first Nap) 630-800PM---1:30hrs
Nightsleep 1130-400AM--4:30hrs total ending in am: 6hrs

90 min Cycles: 1=1:30hrs; 2=3:00hrs; 3=4:30hrs; 4=6:00hrs; 5=7:30hrs

[David Hausladen]

Biphasic Sleep, Days 8 and 9

(Just realized that I forgot to post Day 8's log yesterday.) More sleeping incidents: yesterday, I woke up at 5am, but went back to bed later for several hours. Today, practically the same thing happened again.

I'm think I'm going to rearrange my schedule to place my nap in the morning (as Ati suggested in her post this morning)--my schedule will permit it easily and it would probably be much more compatible with what my body seems to want to do. Since alertness hasn't been a problem after 1pm on any particular day, moving my afternoon nap forward by a few hours shouldn't cause any trouble later in the day. I'm also thinking since I rarely can get myself to bed by 12:30am, I'll shift an hour and a half from my core sleep to my nap, putting them both at three hours.

So my thought is that starting tomorrow I'll have core sleep from 2am to 5am and then my nap from 9am to 12pm. For both, I'll include a half hour of reading-in-bed time beforehand (from 1:30am to 2am and from 8:30am to 9am) to allow me to wind down so that I can fall asleep as close to the target time as possible.

[David Hausladen]

Ati: Thanks for the suggestion! As you can see, I've decided to incorporate it into my just-revised schedule. Hopefully this one will be easier to follow.

[Ati]

David, good luck with that, it will be interesting to see what happens!

I think I'm a bit off just because of a different sort of schedule...I didn't actually expect that for this weekend. Yesterday slept 1 to 230P, then stayed up with family but fell asleep reading a book, finally to bed around midnight so really didn't do the schedule at all, not even sure how long I slept !! Got up at 5am for some reason.

I think I won't actually post the last 24 hours, instead post Day 13 tomorrow morning after getting in a later nap today (more like what I can do during the work week and during most weekends, actually), since tomorrow it's back to a usual schedule. I can't say I was overtired yesterday, more a lack of discipline or something...

Have a good Sunday!

[David Hausladen]

Biphasic Sleep, Day 10 (Day 1 on the revised schedule)

The core sleep from 2am to 5am went off without a hitch--some strong sleep inertia afterward, but it faded quickly over the first 10 or 15 minutes that I was awake. I didn't experience any drowsiness from then to 9am, which is a great thing! The nap from 9am to 12pm was not as restful--kept getting woken up by one of my cats who doesn't understand this schedule and just had to have my total attention--but I did get some sleep and I do feel fairly rested now. I think this revised schedule is going to work out very well--it's certainly off to a great start! (Thanks again for the suggestion, Ati!)

[David Hausladen]

Biphasic Sleep, Day 11 (Day 2 on the revised schedule)

This morning I started a regular running program right after my core sleep from 2am to 5am--it helped with waking up then, though I think it also drained my energy a bit over the morning in general. When I woke up from my 9am to 12pm nap, I had some major grogginess that didn't want to go away, so I had an extra 25-minute nap that seems to have put that tiredness to rest (no pun intended). I've had basically no problems since then, so I think I can chalk this down as a successful Day 2 on the revised schedule.

[Ati]

David, very interesting how you've split your 6 hours in half...will be really interesting to see how this works. You've got 3 hours, then 4 hours awake, then 3 hours. So that's 10 in all with 14 awake between times you hit sleep. Never mind me, I'm just doing the math That's really interesting....

11/28 Tuesday Day 14 Nap 530-700; then got really, really tired/sleepy in the evening while playing scrabble --we do that a lot evenings my daughter's home so nothing new there--4th pm scrabble game in a row--couldn't wait to get to sleep, really different. Woke up before the alarm went off, still feeling tired and just slept til 530AM... fine today so far... will get a nap in again at 530 or so and see what happens! Maybe it's time to pay attention to drinking plenty of water, eating more veggies, something! This was not explainable. but we'll see maybe just a glitch...


11/27 Monday Day 13 Nap 530-700P; Night 1115 to 345AM [1:30 + 4:30 =
6:00hrs/ 4 cycles
11/26 XXX
11/25 Saturday Day 11 Nap (11/24) 12N-130P ; Night 1115-345A [1:30 + 4:30 = 6:00hrs/ 4Cycles]
11/24 Friday Day 10 Nap (11/23) 530-700P; TurkeyNight 1130-730A [1:30 + 8:00hrs = 9:30hrs(!!!)/570m/6Cycles PLUS 30 min
11/23 Thursday Day 9(am) Nap (yesterday) 330-500P; Night 1115-345A
[1:30 + 4:30h = 6hrs /360m/ 4Cycles
11/20 Monday Day 7 Nap 5-630P Nightsleep (oops!) 1130-530A (didn't wake on my own, didn't hear the alarm cat didn't either ) [1:30 +6:00hrs =7:30 hrs]
11/19 Sunday Day 6 no nap: Nightsleep 11P-345A [4:45 hrs] (3~+ cycles)
11/18 Saturday Day 5 NO NAP; Nightsleep 130AM-800A [6.5 hrs]
11/17 Friday Day 4 Nap 4-450P awakened by early arrival of one guest: Nightsleep 1230P-7:30AM [:50 + 7hrs=7:50hrs, but freesleeping, pretty much]
11/16 Thursday Day 3 Nap 615-745P; Nightsleep 1115P-345A [1:30 + 4:30 hrs=6hrs]
11/15 Wednesday Day 2 Nap ("Nap") 800-1100PM then to bed
Nightsleep 1130-345AM---3:00hrs + 4:15 hrs//Total: 7:15hrs
11/14 Tuesday Day 1 Nap (++) 730-1030PM---3:00
Nightsleep 1130-400AM---4:30hrs// Total: 7:30hrs
11/13 Monday Start, with first Nap) 630-800PM---1:30hrs
Nightsleep 1130-400AM--4:30hrs total ending in am: 6hrs

90 min Cycles: 1=1:30hrs; 2=3:00hrs; 3=4:30hrs; 4=6:00hrs; 5=7:30hrs

[David Hausladen]

Biphasic Sleep, Day 12 (Day 3 on the revised schedule)

Another successful day. No tiredness in the morning this time, despite having gone on an even longer run than yesterday! Some tiredness after lunch--about 3pm--which I took an extra 25-minute nap to remedy. I'm thinking the flexible and optional 25-minute nap may become a staple of my schedule, since it helps with unpredictable bouts of tiredness that seem to be able to pop up at any time of day. As long as I stick to an average of one 25-minute nap a day, it shouldn't be a problem with adaptation or biphasic sleep in general.

A brief, totally unnecessary aside on terminology: I have my "core sleep" and "nap" and now another optional 25-minute sleep period that I ought to name differently to easily differentiate it from the others. I think the right term to use would be "catnap" ("powernap" would work too, but I think the term is too gimmicky).

[Ati]

Reporting for yesterday--

11/29 Wednesday Day 15 Nap 6-730P; Night 1130-4AM [1:30 + 4:30 = 6:00hrs/4Cycles
11/28 Tuesday Day 14 Nap 530-700P; Night 1130 to 530AM [1:30 + 6 =7.5hrs/ 5Cycles UNEXPLAINED OVERSLEEP
11/27 Monday Day 13 Nap 530-700P; Night 1115 to 345AM [1:30 + 4:30 =
6:00hrs/ 4Cycles
11/26 XXX
11/25 Saturday Day 11 Nap (11/24) 12N-130P ; Night 1115-345A [1:30 + 4:30 = 6:00hrs/ 4Cycles]
11/24 Friday Day 10 Nap (11/23) 530-700P; TurkeyNight 1130-730A [1:30 + 8:00hrs = 9:30hrs(!!!)/570m/6Cycles PLUS 30 min OVERSLEEP
11/23 Thursday Day 9(am) Nap (yesterday) 330-500P; Night 1115-345A
[1:30 + 4:30h = 6hrs /360m/ 4Cycles
11/20 Monday Day 7 Nap 5-630P Nightsleep (oops!) 1130-530A (didn't wake on my own, didn't hear the alarm cat didn't either ) [1:30 +6:00hrs =7:30 hrs] OVERSLEEP--SITUATIONAL RECOVERY
11/19 Sunday Day 6 no nap: Nightsleep 11P-345A [4:45 hrs] (3~+ cycles) NO NAP
11/18 Saturday Day 5 NO NAP; Nightsleep 130AM-800A [6.5 hrs] NO NAP/OVERSLEEP/SITUATIONAL
11/17 Friday Day 4 Nap 4-450P awakened by early arrival of one guest: Nightsleep 1230P-7:30AM [:50 + 7hrs=7:50hrs, but freesleeping, pretty much] OVERSLEEP/SITUATIONAL
11/16 Thursday Day 3 Nap 615-745P; Nightsleep 1115P-345A [1:30 + 4:30 hrs=6hrs]
11/15 Wednesday Day 2 Nap ("Nap") 800-1100PM then to bed
Nightsleep 1130-345AM---3:00hrs + 4:15 hrs//Total: 7:15hrs OVERSLEEP
11/14 Tuesday Day 1 Nap (++) 730-1030PM---3:00
Nightsleep 1130-400AM---4:30hrs// Total: 7:30hrs OVERSLEEP
11/13 Monday Start, with first Nap) 630-800PM---1:30hrs
Nightsleep 1130-400AM--4:30hrs total ending in am: 6hrs

90 min Cycles: 1=1:30hrs; 2=3:00hrs; 3=4:30hrs; 4=6:00hrs; 5=7:30hrs
__________________

[Ati]

OK, 16th day here, probably time for some consolidation of data

I went through the data below and see that I have actually only actually slept my 1.30 +4:30=6hrs/4Cycles SEVEN times out of 16 !!! I'll call these "proper days" or "sleeping proper"....

The other times have been way off, really--

**2 oversleeps right after starting

**Then after just one proper day, 3 situational oversleeps and 3 situational recovery(?) oversleep or freesleeps--[that's recovery "from" oversleeping, not from less sleep, mind you/me ]

**Then 2 individual oversleep and 1 just off in the remaining 8 days

So I've had a grand total of 5 single proper days with at least one off/oversleep day between these, and only the last 2 days as the first two days in a row of proper days

What's really interesting abt that is that I feel so good ...If I had just guessed, I would have thought at least 50/50, not such a seemingly "poor" showing of biphasic sleep accomplishment..

So what does this mean? Not at all sure yet, but again amazed at how good this feels, just the same in regards to energy. Perhaps the effort has effect, and of course, doing something new.

So, I will re-capture the first 16 days as a summary of sorts for this log--which is very helpful to me--thank you David and others for the idea and this active logging thread and proceed onward. In spite of the fact that we have much potential "situational" stuff coming up, with holidays and a week-long trip out of town to visit my parents, mid December, I'm going to see just what I can do to regularize the process so I can see what say 3 or 4 days in a row sleeping "proper" will feel like, and maybe how a week or more does . Who knows what 30 days will bring??


11/30 Thursday Day 16 Nap 6-7:30P; Night 1145-415AM [1:30 + 4:30 =6:00hrs/4Cycles
11/29 Wednesday Day 15 Nap 6-730P; Night 1130-4AM [1:30 + 4:30 = 6:00hrs/4Cycles
11/28 Tuesday Day 14 Nap 530-700P; Night 1130 to 530AM [1:30 + 6 =7.5hrs/ 5Cycles UNEXPLAINED OVERSLEEP
11/27 Monday Day 13 Nap 530-700P; Night 1115 to 345AM [1:30 + 4:30 =
6:00hrs/ 4Cycles
11/26 XXX
11/25 Saturday Day 11 Nap (11/24) 12N-130P ; Night 1115-345A [1:30 + 4:30 = 6:00hrs/ 4Cycles]
11/24 Friday Day 10 Nap (11/23) 530-700P; TurkeyNight 1130-730A [1:30 + 8:00hrs = 9:30hrs(!!!)/570m/6Cycles PLUS 30 min OVERSLEEP ??TURKEY SITUATIONAL???
11/23 Thursday Day 9(am) Nap (yesterday) 330-500P; Night 1115-345A
[1:30 + 4:30h = 6hrs /360m/ 4Cycles
11/20 Monday Day 7 Nap 5-630P Nightsleep (oops!) 1130-530A (didn't wake on my own, didn't hear the alarm cat didn't either ) [1:30 +6:00hrs =7:30 hrs] OVERSLEEP--SITUATIONAL RECOVERY
11/19 Sunday Day 6 no nap: Nightsleep 11P-345A [4:45 hrs] (3~+ cycles) NO NAP/SITUATIONAL
11/18 Saturday Day 5 NO NAP; Nightsleep 130AM-800A [6.5 hrs] NO NAP/OVERSLEEP/SITUATIONAL
11/17 Friday Day 4 Nap 4-450P awakened by early arrival of one guest: Nightsleep 1230P-7:30AM [:50 + 7hrs=7:50hrs, but freesleeping, pretty much] OVERSLEEP/SITUATIONAL
11/16 Thursday Day 3 Nap 615-745P; Nightsleep 1115P-345A [1:30 + 4:30 hrs=6hrs]
11/15 Wednesday Day 2 Nap ("Nap") 800-1100PM then to bed
Nightsleep 1130-345AM---3:00hrs + 4:15 hrs//Total: 7:15hrs OVERSLEEP
11/14 Tuesday Day 1 Nap (++) 730-1030PM---3:00
Nightsleep 1130-400AM---4:30hrs// Total: 7:30hrs OVERSLEEP
11/13 Monday Start, with first Nap) 630-800PM---1:30hrs
Nightsleep 1130-400AM--4:30hrs total ending in am: 6hrs

90 min Cycles: 1=1:30hrs; 2=3:00hrs; 3=4:30hrs; 4=6:00hrs; 5=7:30hrs
__________________

[Ati]

Originally Posted by JoeBlogs

That sounds like a good idea, I will post brief summaries here as well as continuing the blog. I'm actually using the blog to help me get out of bed! I decided to make posting in my blog the first thing I do after waking up in order to hopefully give me a reason not to lie-in and remind me that I do want to get up!

...

Day 1:

Core sleep: 02:00-07:00 (woke up an hour early as I messed up my alarm!)

Nap: 11:30-13:00 (woke up after 45 minutes but then went back to sleep)

I have felt fine throughout the day though maybe a little more tired than usual after 11pm. I am looking forward to my next core sleep which begins in 40 minutes. It's a bit annoying that my core sleep is a full 6 hours, I wish it was 4.5, but I think that I shouldn't try and push myself too much yet and plan on getting into the schedule before reducing the number of hours.

Originally Posted by JoeBlogs

Day 2:

Core sleep: 03:00-08:00 (went to bed late and didn't get to sleep straight away so only got 5 hours again)

Nap: Didn't! (had forgotten about a meeting which got in the way and I was just too busy to find the time. But at least it shows that I can move a nap or not take one at all and still manage the day without too much tiredness.)

------

Day 1:

Core sleep: 02:00-07:00 (woke up an hour early as I messed up my alarm!)

Nap: 11:30-13:00 (woke up after 45 minutes but then went back to sleep)

I have felt fine throughout the day though maybe a little more tired than usual after 11pm. I am looking forward to my next core sleep which begins in 40 minutes. It's a bit annoying that my core sleep is a full 6 hours, I wish it was 4.5, but I think that I shouldn't try and push myself too much yet and plan on getting into the schedule before reducing the number of hours.

Hey JoeBlogs how's it going?

Originally Posted by David Hausladen

Biphasic Sleep, Day 12 (Day 3 on the revised schedule)

Another successful day. No tiredness in the morning this time, despite having gone on an even longer run than yesterday! Some tiredness after lunch--about 3pm--which I took an extra 25-minute nap to remedy. I'm thinking the flexible and optional 25-minute nap may become a staple of my schedule, since it helps with unpredictable bouts of tiredness that seem to be able to pop up at any time of day. As long as I stick to an average of one 25-minute nap a day, it shouldn't be a problem with adaptation or biphasic sleep in general.

A brief, totally unnecessary aside on terminology: I have my "core sleep" and "nap" and now another optional 25-minute sleep period that I ought to name differently to easily differentiate it from the others. I think the right term to use would be "catnap" ("powernap" would work too, but I think the term is too gimmicky).

David-- The 25 minute nap idea is really interesting, I'm not sure how it fits in theoretically but I can see it being helpful...since it always used to be when I used 30 minute naps alone to "power up".... I take it you are still getting your 90 minute "biphasic nap" in the mornings? I wonder if the tiredness has to do with the timing of the longer stretch of wake time.

My long stretch is between 3:45am (or so) and 5 (+/-)pm. During this time, I'm real busy and involved with others or on active projects. Then when I get home, the first thing I want to do is zone out on the couch...So I wonder abt how the relationship between activity highs and sleep times works during the day in regards to energy level, wakefulness etc.

I'm still quite sure that a lot more than just sleeping times and durations, is involved here...

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by David Hausladen

I've been having trouble getting to sleep quickly in my core sleep, and I've been thinking that I need to add some time to the beginning of each sleep period so that I actually sleep for the right durations in each sleep period.

David,

I was initially adding 30 minutes to the beginning of each sleep period, just to fall asleep. This amount has gradually reduced, so it isn't as bad as it sounds. I can now pick the best time to have the alarm go off based on how tired I feel, so if I tell myself 'fall asleep in 10 minutes' I'll fall asleep within 8-12 minutes.

Give yourself too much rather than too little time to just fall asleep. You'll probably wake up after n cycles anyway.

[David Hausladen]

Day 13 (Day 3 on the revised schedule)

Well, I have no one to blame but myself for my sleep schedule getting messed up today--I ended Day 12 staying up two hours past my planned bedtime (out of a three hour core sleep!), so there was little possibility of being rested by the time my alarm went off. That said, I was pleasantly surprised that when I did oversleep, I only slept a total of six hours, which is the sum of my planned sleep time. So in the end, I didn't really lose any time, I just lost control of when my sleep time was.

[Ati]

Hmmmmm.....Another oversleep through the night maybe due to late nap...didn't set alarm...blizzard here, different sort of day with inter-town travel, later return, nothing real dramatic...

I've redone my log to highlight "proper sleep" days by separating them spatially from days with oversleep or skipped naps, etc. Please let me know if for any reason the posts are too long in regards to scrolling, etc. (I don't think so.... ) I would log this anyway and I'm just putting the log here "on request" in case it might be helpful to others.

The spread is interesting as I mentioned yesterday. Perhaps all that is minimally needed for the improvement in energy (for me right now?? or more generally///) is regular periodic "proper sleeping"...I'm using this shortcut term to mean--

------sleeping in 90 minute cycles (or naturally modified sleep stage cycles, heralded by spontaneous awakening earlier than 90 min), with a biphasic 24 hr sleep cycle distribution----- WOULD YOU MODIFY THIS DEFINITION IN ANY WAY ???

I'm still going to see what I can do to lengthen the number of sequential days with "proper sleep" and see what effect that has on daytime energy as well as regularization of sleep pattern.

David--I see we are having similar experiences in our planned sleep cycles going haywire for various reasons. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's interesting to see how little control we seem to have, isn't it? Do you have some ideas about what the major factors are that contribute to this disruption in well thought out plans??

Scott--(is that a good name for you ? ?, or shall I add the Bird?) I have found exactly the same thing, for both naps in the living room, even with family around and night sleeps, I just nod right off, while earlier on, I had the same situation as you describe, I'd go for sleep and lie there waiting for it to happen. (I miss my reading time, have to put it in elsewhere since I always have a book going...but the sleep effects are interesting)

I think there are fascinating subtleties to all this...

good day!

Ati

-------
Day 17 12/1 Fri Nap 8:30-10P//1:30+6:00=7:30hrs/5Cycles OVERSLEEP

Day 16 11/30 Thurs Nap 1:30 + 4:30 =6:00hrs/4Cycles
Day 15 11/29 Wed Nap 1:30 + 4:30 = 6:00hrs/4Cycles

Day 14 11/28 Tues Nap 630-8P//1:30+6=7.30hrs/5CyclesOVERSLEEP?ETIO?

Day 13 11/27 Mon Nap 6-730P//1:30+4:30=6:00hrs/4Cycles

Day 12 11/26 Sun XXX

Day 11 11/25 Sat Nap 12N-130P//1:30 + 4:30 = 6:00hrs/ 4Cycles

Day 10 11/24 Fri Nap 530-700P// 1:30 + 8:00hrs = 9:30hrs(!!!)/570m/
6Cycles+30m OVERSLEEP ??TURKEY???

Day 9 11/23 Thurs Nap 330-500P//1:30 + 4:30h = 6hrs /4Cycles

Day 8,7 11/22,21 Wed, Tues XXX
Days 6 11/20 Mon Nap 5-630P//1:30+6:00=7:30 hrs OVERSLEEP
Day 7 11/19 Sun NO NAP//0 + 4:45 hrs (3~+ cycles)NO NAP
Day 6 11/18 Sat NO NAP//0 + 6.5 hrs NO NAP/OVERSLEEP
Day 5 11/17 Fri Nap4-450P//:50+7=7:50hrs/5Cyc/InterruptedNap,OVERSLP

Day 4 11/16 Thurs Nap 615-745P// 1:30 + 4:30 hrs=6hrs/4Cycles

Day 3 11/15 Wed Nap 800-1100PM// 3:00hrs + 4:15= 7:15hrs OVERSLEEP
Day 2 11/14 Tues Nap 730-1030P//3:00+4:30=7:30hrs/5Cycles OVERSLEEP

Day 1 11/13 Monday Nap 630-800PM---1:30+4:30=6hrs/4Cycles

90 min Cycles: 1=1:30hrs; 2=3:00hrs; 3=4:30hrs; 4=6:00hrs; 5=7:30hrs
__________________

[David Hausladen]

Biphasic Sleep, Day 14 (Day 4 on the revised schedule)

I think it's safe to say that my body is starting to become well-adapted to six hours of sleep a night in two blocks (though not yet to the specific schedule I've tried to lay out for it). I was unable to sleep during my normal core sleep hours due to a severe thunderstorm in the area, yet when I did go to sleep at about 5am, I woke at about 8am--the same length of sleep as the core sleep that I missed! Then, hoping to get my schedule back on track, I went to sleep at 9am, the normal time for my nap, and I woke naturally about ten minutes before my alarm went off at 12am. No oversleeping, no significant sleep inertia, and no significant tiredness, despite the disruption!

So now that my body is used to the sleep duration and the split into two sleep periods, the next step is to get the sleep periods consistent enough that it gets used to the specific times. I appreciate the flexibility which this schedule is demonstrating, but I want to get to where I naturally get tired before my core sleep and nap, rather than having to use reading to help myself sleep. To get the ball rolling on this I think I need to get to bed at the right times consistently for at least a week. So call this Day 1 for an uninterrupted week of consistent sleeping (unless we have another big storm tonight).

[David Hausladen]

Originally Posted by Ati

Perhaps all that is minimally needed for the improvement in energy (for me right now?? or more generally///) is regular periodic "proper sleeping"

[...]

I'm still going to see what I can do to lengthen the number of sequential days with "proper sleep" and see what effect that has on daytime energy as well as regularization of sleep pattern.

From my experiences, I would say your comment on regular "proper sleeping" is fairly accurate: I've had plenty of energy as long as I did get the six hours of sleep, even when it was off-schedule. As I said in my Day 14 post, I still think it would be valuable to reach consistency with my sleep schedule so that my body can start making me tired at the appropriate times (and not tired at inappropriate times)--that is to say, so that my body can move my circadian rhythm to coincide with the new schedule. I think that's what a lot of "sequential days with 'proper sleep'" will do for me. In the long-term, I think consistent sleep is also important if I want my sleep cycle to eventually shorten so that I don't need so much of it.

Originally Posted by Ati

David--I see we are having similar experiences in our planned sleep cycles going haywire for various reasons. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's interesting to see how little control we seem to have, isn't it? Do you have some ideas about what the major factors are that contribute to this disruption in well thought out plans??

My guess would be that the main problem behind these disruptions is simply that the body is still working on getting in line with the timing and amount of sleep on the biphasic schedule. As you know, I had to move my nap backward to 9am because my body was still expecting most of its sleep in the morning (and almost none of it afterward). I think with time it will get easier and easier to keep on schedule--except for difficulties caused by circumstances* (severe thunderstorms, staying out way too late with friends, etc.)--as the schedule gets more and more physically ingrained.

I think we'll see whether that theory's true as we get into the latter half of our respective 30-day trials.

* Place here an obligatory Law of Attraction-based admonition that I need to stop attracting problematic circumstances.

[Ati]

Originally Posted by David Hausladen

From my experiences, I would say your comment on regular "proper sleeping" is fairly accurate: I've had plenty of energy as long as I did get the six hours of sleep, even when it was off-schedule. As I said in my Day 14 post, I still think it would be valuable to reach consistency with my sleep schedule so that my body can start making me tired at the appropriate times (and not tired at inappropriate times)--that is to say, so that my body can move my circadian rhythm to coincide with the new schedule. I think that's what a lot of "sequential days with 'proper sleep'" will do for me. In the long-term, I think consistent sleep is also important if I want my sleep cycle to eventually shorten so that I don't need so much of it.

Same here, I'd like to see a regular schedule, both circumstantially and physiologically. It also makes sense that using both pure and simple old self discipline and "arrangement" of circumstances as much as possible is one way that a regularized sleep schedule might be accomplished for some number of days. Not easy though and we're picking a heilluva time to try that part of things

Originally Posted by David Hausladen

My guess would be that the main problem behind these disruptions is simply that the body is still working on getting in line with the timing and amount of sleep on the biphasic schedule. As you know, I had to move my nap backward to 9am because my body was still expecting most of its sleep in the morning (and almost none of it afterward). I think with time it will get easier and easier to keep on schedule--except for difficulties caused by circumstances* (severe thunderstorms, staying out way too late with friends, etc.)--as the schedule gets more and more physically ingrained.

Seems so, we'll see. I'm starting to realize that some of my assumptions have been a bit off, most interestingly so! Example, just the tally of number of days I've actually done this in a given day compared to how I've been feeling (last post), doesn't make sense per previous assumptions...

That does call for an empiric test of most of this, doesn't it?

I am aiming for a regularized schedule just for that purpose. If it makes little difference after all, then what may be true is the 90 minute routine--It'll be interesting!

Originally Posted by David Hausladen

I think we'll see whether that theory's true as we get into the latter half of our respective 30-day trials.

If we can do it by then !

Originally Posted by David Hausladen

* Place here an obligatory Law of Attraction-based admonition that I need to stop attracting problematic circumstances.

Yah, in translation!

----

Yesterday, weird day circumstantially, got home in time for a 530P nap, but bipped around the house and on this forum ( ) til 8P, just like that! My time do fly when I'm unfocused. ("pure and simple old self discipline", where'djago??)

Interesting to consider that some of the changes we are seeing may have to do with length of time attempting/doing this.

Day 18 12/2 Sat Nap 8-930P//1:30 + 4:30 =6:00hrs/4Cycles

Day 17 12/1 Fri Nap 8:30-10P//1:30+6:00=7:30hrs/5Cycles OVERSLEEP

Day 16 11/30 Thurs Nap 1:30 + 4:30 =6:00hrs/4Cycles
Day 15 11/29 Wed Nap 1:30 + 4:30 = 6:00hrs/4Cycles

Day 14 11/28 Tues Nap 630-8P//1:30+6=7.30hrs/5CyclesOVERSLEEP?ETIO?

Day 13 11/27 Mon Nap 6-730P//1:30+4:30=6:00hrs/4Cycles

Day 12 11/26 Sun XXX

Day 11 11/25 Sat Nap 12N-130P//1:30 + 4:30 = 6:00hrs/ 4Cycles

Day 10 11/24 Fri Nap 530-700P// 1:30 + 8:00hrs = 9:30hrs(!!!)/570m/
6Cycles+30m OVERSLEEP ??TURKEY???

Day 9 11/23 Thurs Nap 330-500P//1:30 + 4:30h = 6hrs /4Cycles

Day 8,7 11/22,21 Wed, Tues XXX
Days 6 11/20 Mon Nap 5-630P//1:30+6:00=7:30 hrs OVERSLEEP
Day 7 11/19 Sun NO NAP//0 + 4:45 hrs (3~+ cycles)NO NAP
Day 6 11/18 Sat NO NAP//0 + 6.5 hrs NO NAP/OVERSLEEP
Day 5 11/17 Fri Nap4-450P//:50+7=7:50hrs/5Cyc/InterruptedNap,OVERSLP

Day 4 11/16 Thurs Nap 615-745P// 1:30 + 4:30 hrs=6hrs/4Cycles

Day 3 11/15 Wed Nap 800-1100PM// 3:00hrs + 4:15= 7:15hrs OVERSLEEP
Day 2 11/14 Tues Nap 730-1030P//3:00+4:30=7:30hrs/5Cycles OVERSLEEP

Day 1 11/13 Monday Nap 630-800PM---1:30+4:30=6hrs/4Cycles

90 min Cycles: 1=1:30hrs; 2=3:00hrs; 3=4:30hrs; 4=6:00hrs; 5=7:30hrs
__________________

[David Hausladen]

Biphasic Sleep, Day 15 (Day 5 on the revised schedule)

Ati: Yeah, I need to work on that self-discipline bit--today I woke up at 5 am and decided to take a 25-minute catnap...which was followed by another catnap, and another...Now at some point in this string of catnaps, I decided, "Whatever--since I can't seem to get up, I'm going to get my 3-hour nap now." I didn't set my alarm, as I realized when I woke up some time later, yet when I looked at the clock, the nap had lasted just under 3 hours.

So the four sleep cycles are definitely ingrained in my body at this point, and judging by the fact that I wake up before the target time so often, I would say my sleep cycles are already a little bit under 90 minutes. The only obstacle left--and it's a big one--is to use self-discipline to force some consistency into my sleeping habits.

Maybe I'll go back and read Steve's self-discipline series again (which is, coincidentally, the very first thing I read on this site about eight months ago).

[Wanderer]

Biphasic Sleep Day 1

Cunning Cunning me, I needed to get up for work at 5 this morning, so I made sure i stayed up till 12:30, and then when I got up at 5 I'd had three cycles. At around 17:15 I got into bed for my nap, and slept for just under 80minutes, this was annoying because I didnt feel like Id got the full dose of stage 5 sleep, despite this I am now feeling fairly alert, and hope to do the same sleep tonight

The plan so far then is:
4:30 (3 cycles core sleep at night (12:30-5)
1:30 (1 cycle nap at around 4/5 during the day)

Nap may be a problem as twice a week I stay at school and I dont know how well Ill be able to sleep under a desk. I guess Ill just see how it goes on monday.

So far I've not had any major drowsiness, I like showering after I wake up, so this helps me to come into 'fully conscious' mode. In truth I've not tried to do anything mentally hard since this started so we shall see how I feel after another 3 cycles tonight.

Any advice much appreciated

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

I made sure i stayed up till 12:30

...

The plan so far then is:
4:30 (3 cycles core sleep at night (12:30-5)
1:30 (1 cycle nap at around 4/5 during the day)

Wanderer, welcome aboard. I'm sure you'll love this - it really is fantastic.

Just a quick question: are you allowing any time for you to actually fall asleep? If you plan to sleep from 12:30 - 5 (which sounds fine, btw), are you going to bed a little earlier than this?

[Wanderer]

Yes Im allowing a little fall asleep time
Last night I went to bed at 12, read for about 10 minutes then was asleep within 5 minutes. This morning I feel fine apart from a little lethargic. Is there any particluar information people want from my biphasic sleep posts or just how sucessful Ive been? I like Ati's way of reviewing it each post so if you dont have any objections I think Im going to use that
Cheers
W

[Ati]

Welcome Wanderer!

Yes, thanks for being willing to post. I think we have the potential of really developing some data over time here. Not scientific by any means but it's very helpful to see what others' are doing, what is helpful etc.

I think if you post whatever you think is important in a "log" of sorts with entries every day or so, that would be a great start.

Specifics we've been mulling about recently have to do with what time of day seems best for naps, how important regular scheduling is, what we do if we get off schedule, what kind of snafus or conundrums we run into and what we do abt those.

I'd love to see someone else post an ongoing log ! It's interesting to look back, as you'll see I recently did and find surprising things.

So, welcome, welcome !!

[Wanderer]

Wow, this thread is so very, very, very welcoming

I slept 4.5 hours last night. Unfortunately I had church at 6pm, so after getting home from work at 4:20, I didnt really get a chance for a nap, so while I lay in bed for a bit, I certainly didn't get more than an hours nap. This suggests that I missed out the vital stage of REM sleep that I needed, which has probably contributed to this afternoons drowsiness. Other than that no major problems.
As far as I can tell so far, my nap about 12 hours or so after the end of my core sleep works well, with only 5/6 hours till my next core sleep.
I think regular scheduling is less important than been able to fall asleep as soon as you lie down. If I lay down to sleep once, and I slept for 7 hours great, but if I sleep biphasically, sleep 6 hours, but spend 30mins trying to get to sleep each time not only will I need a two hour break throughout the day, but I will also be sleeping just as much as a monophasic counterpart. I am considering setting a trigger to help me sleep e.g. listen to the same song during sleep for a while so that when I hear the song I feel sleepy - thoughts?

Day 2: 3.5 sleep cycles (5.25 hours) = Fine
Day 1: 4 sleep cycles (6 hours) = Fine

[Ati]

Had to run into hospital just about nap time! So no nap, got home and before I knew it, it was 8pm and I was pretty tired without a nap.

Didn't want to have such a late nap again since I didn't think that worked so well a few days ago (would've been 8-9:30pm nap, then 1115pm to 345am night sleep with only 1:45 between....last time, I overslept my nap and think it may have been because I was too tired that late for my "second morning ).

Went to bed at 830pm to read a bit, thinking I'd read til 915 or so, then get to sleep for 6 hours/4Cycles, my usual 24 hour total. Didn't set alarm and woke up at 4:43am like clockwork at 7:30 hrs/ 5 Cycles!

So, did I need an hour more sleep/24 hours because I missed my nap? Hmmm.....

One thing that seems most convincing, regular, etc. is the natural adherence to 90 minute cycles. It seems that as long as I don't allow myself to drift off again, I will naturally awaken at the end of some 90 minute cycle or 5 to 10 minutes before. And as long as I get up, I find that I very quickly--within minutes of seeing light--totally wake up with good energy, that's really neat.

(I'm heading to the 21 day mark and then I'll consolidate the essence of that 21 day experience for a shorter review...and continue to add to that....not that anyone's been complaining abt bandwidth or anything )



Day 19 12/3 Sun NO NAP//7:30hrs/5Cycles NO NAP

Day 18 12/2 Sat Nap 8-930P//1:30 + 4:30 =6:00hrs/4Cycles

Day 17 12/1 Fri Nap 8:30-10P//1:30+6:00=7:30hrs/5Cycles OVERSLEEP

Day 16 11/30 Thurs Nap 1:30 + 4:30 =6:00hrs/4Cycles
Day 15 11/29 Wed Nap 1:30 + 4:30 = 6:00hrs/4Cycles

Day 14 11/28 Tues Nap 630-8P//1:30+6=7.30hrs/5CyclesOVERSLEEP?ETIO?

Day 13 11/27 Mon Nap 6-730P//1:30+4:30=6:00hrs/4Cycles

Day 12 11/26 Sun XXX

Day 11 11/25 Sat Nap 12N-130P//1:30 + 4:30 = 6:00hrs/ 4Cycles

Day 10 11/24 Fri Nap 530-700P// 1:30 + 8:00hrs = 9:30hrs(!!!)/570m/
6Cycles+30m OVERSLEEP ??TURKEY???

Day 9 11/23 Thurs Nap 330-500P//1:30 + 4:30h = 6hrs /4Cycles

Day 8,7 11/22,21 Wed, Tues XXX
Days 6 11/20 Mon Nap 5-630P//1:30+6:00=7:30 hrs OVERSLEEP
Day 7 11/19 Sun NO NAP//0 + 4:45 hrs (3~+ cycles)NO NAP
Day 6 11/18 Sat NO NAP//0 + 6.5 hrs NO NAP/OVERSLEEP
Day 5 11/17 Fri Nap4-450P//:50+7=7:50hrs/5Cyc/InterruptedNap,OVERSLP

Day 4 11/16 Thurs Nap 615-745P// 1:30 + 4:30 hrs=6hrs/4Cycles

Day 3 11/15 Wed Nap 800-1100PM// 3:00hrs + 4:15= 7:15hrs OVERSLEEP
Day 2 11/14 Tues Nap 730-1030P//3:00+4:30=7:30hrs/5Cycles OVERSLEEP

Day 1 11/13 Monday Nap 630-800PM---1:30+4:30=6hrs/4Cycles

90 min Cycles: 1=1:30hrs; 2=3:00hrs; 3=4:30hrs; 4=6:00hrs; 5=7:30hrs
__________________

[David Hausladen]

Biphasic Sleep, Day 16

This morning I once again overshot my bedtime (staying up until 4:30am), and decided to try something different as long as I was off-schedule for the day. I went to bed from 4:30am to 7:30am, woke up and fed the cats, and then immediately went back to sleep from 7:30am to 10:30am. My intention was to see how close I could get to monophasic without becoming excessively tired during the day.

Results: When I woke up at 10:30am, I ended up taking another short nap immediately then. I think this was lack of self-discipline and not tiredness, but it happened so I'm putting it on record. So I actually got up at 11am. I didn't experience any really major drowsiness during the day, but I was sluggish for the first few hours after waking up at 11am. I laid down and listened to music for a short while between 2:30pm and 3pm, and this probably included some Stage 1 sleep (but I think the music kept me from falling into Stage 2 sleep).

So the day wasn't too bad under a nearly-monophasic sleep schedule, but there was a feeling of lethargy that convinces me to keep my naps separated as they had been before (i.e. by four hours).

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by David Hausladen

Biphasic Sleep, Day 16

This morning I once again overshot my bedtime (staying up until 4:30am), and decided to try something different as long as I was off-schedule for the day. I went to bed from 4:30am to 7:30am, woke up and fed the cats, and then immediately went back to sleep from 7:30am to 10:30am. My intention was to see how close I could get to monophasic without becoming excessively tired during the day.

Results: When I woke up at 10:30am, I ended up taking another short nap immediately then. I think this was lack of self-discipline and not tiredness, but it happened so I'm putting it on record. So I actually got up at 11am. I didn't experience any really major drowsiness during the day, but I was sluggish for the first few hours after waking up at 11am. I laid down and listened to music for a short while between 2:30pm and 3pm, and this probably included some Stage 1 sleep (but I think the music kept me from falling into Stage 2 sleep).

So the day wasn't too bad under a nearly-monophasic sleep schedule, but there was a feeling of lethargy that convinces me to keep my naps separated as they had been before (i.e. by four hours).

This is interesting. I've tried several things when this happens to me (I get carried away with work and end up staying up well past my designated bedtime); and the one that seems to work best - for me anyway - is to sleep for 3 hours at the time, with a 90 minute top-up a few hours later.

I'm keen to see how you go tonight and tomorrow: my guess is that the times will be back to normal (normal biphasic, that is). Is that what you've got planned, or are you going to tweak things a bit?

[Wanderer]

Biphasic Day 3

Well, as I said yesterday I struggled to take a nap yesterday, and today I overslept so had 4 sleep cycles in my core sleep. Not sure if this was a good idea or not but I decided to forgo my nap as I wasnt at all tierd and just try to get back into 4.5 + 1.5 sleep tonight. We shall see how well it works...

Day 3: 4 sleep cycles (monophasic 6 hours) = Oversleep
Day 2: 3.5 sleep cycles (5.25 hours) = Fine
Day 1: 4 sleep cycles (6 hours) = Fine