How can anyone consider animal flesh or products healthy?

[Rachelle]

... especially after you watch this video?

Foods that kill healthy Eating

[Trezker]

This video was done over a generation ago?

Why the hell are we still having these problems? Why are people <20 yrs old still eating beefs and dairy like crazy?

Why do I? I'm not crazy about it, but the food market around here is based on what the last generation ate. I simply can't find decent vegan foods. The mainstream food markets view on vegan food is based on Quorn and other weird ****. All I want is proper fruits and vegetables.

[KeithS]

I eat meat, I love every second of it. We all die someday and as long as I think I look good and I feel good I will continue to eat what I want.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by KeithS

I eat meat, I love every second of it. We all die someday and as long as I think I look good and I feel good I will continue to eat what I want.

It's very questionable how good you would look and feel at 50 to 60 years old with heart disease from a meat based diet.

Most 50-60 year olds eating SAD are not lookers.

[WhiteCrow]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

It's very questionable how good you would look and feel at 50 to 60 years old with heart disease from a meat based diet.

Most 50-60 year olds eating SAD are not lookers.

Why do you think a meat based diet is automatically the SAD?

You assume to fast my friend.....

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by WhiteCrow

Why do you think a meat based diet is automatically the SAD?

You assume to fast my friend.....

I don't know about the Netherlands, but in the US the vast majority of "meat based diets" are fast foods based.

[WhiteCrow]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

I don't know about the Netherlands, but in the US the vast majority of "meat based diets" are fast foods based.

Yeah I know. My point was rather that people posting here might be just a little more conscious than the average american, and thus select more healthy meats and supplement with a lot of veggies and fibers on with it ofcourse.

[funchy]

I think one of my big 'wake up' moments about my own diet was when I was in front of the TV and some health show came on. I started paying attention when the doctor brought his overweight patient to an anatomy dissection room to show her actual human hearts, arteries, and intestine: normal vs unhealthy/enlarged. The heart of a person who gets overweight on a high (saturated) fat diet is enlarged and yellowy from the blobs of fat, and if it gets too enlarged, it loses its ability to pump efficiently. Then the damaged artery was presented, which looked just like the yellow greasy mess in OP's video link. I found it scary to think how much we can destroy ourselves with a few back food tendencies.

Thanks, Rachelle, for posting this good video.

Originally Posted by KeithS

I eat meat, I love every second of it. We all die someday and as long as I think I look good and I feel good I will continue to eat what I want.

The whole point of the doctor's speech is that you can't eat what you want AND feel good forever: choose one or the other.

That video is worth watching. Did you watch it to the end?

Originally Posted by Trezker

This video was done over a generation ago?
Why the hell are we still having these problems? Why are people <20 yrs old still eating beefs and dairy like crazy?

For the same reason KeithS does: he was raised this way and it's a hard habit to break. Or some resist just because they don't like other suggesting a change to them. Or some make a good part of their living somehow involved in the meat/dairy/animal-fat product industry.

Maybe part of the problem is that young adults aren't taught anything about nutrition except that absurd USDA food pyramid they handed out to us in High School Health class? And to admit there might be a better way calls into question what our kids are being taught in public schools. There are some powerful groups who want to keep teaching kids to "eat lots of protein" [from animals], meat is "healthy", and dairy "gives us required calcium".

I don't believe the general pubic is as aware and/or concerned about personal health. Take a look at sodas as a prime example: it has zero nutritional value and some of the ingredients may be harmful, but it's still a multi-billion dollar industry.

Why do I? I'm not crazy about it, but the food market around here is based on what the last generation ate. I simply can't find decent vegan foods. The mainstream food markets view on vegan food is based on Quorn and other weird ****. All I want is proper fruits and vegetables.

I have the same problem, living in a rural area where most supermarkets sells comfort foods & convenience foods, not necessarily healthy foods. I just dug a little deeper and found a health food co-op store, a huge year-round produce market, and other niche retailers. Maybe I have to drive a little to get to them, but I just do fewer-but-bigger trips.

Quorn isn't that weird. If you like mushroom, that's kind of what quorn is.

My problem is I can't eat out anywhere unless I want to stick with saltines and water. I'm in one of those areas where almost every place is either a chain restaurant (=greasy comfort food) or it's a diner ("homecooking" = covered in butter and cheese).

I wish I could find somewhere to move that was more progressive.

To give you an idea how backwards this place is: one of the big events listed in the paper this weekend was the local dog-hunting club's public dinner, featuring fresh killed muskrat.

[IceWolf]

I noticed the history chart near the start of the video, and the doctor's commentary on it, covered consumption of grain, potatoes, milk, beef, and poultry; but there was no mention of fruit or green vegetables. I find this odd.

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by Rachelle

... especially after you watch this video?

Foods that kill healthy Eating

simple, not everyone is either/or, some of us actually eat all things in moderation. Besides all that, the theory of subjective reality says I can be an exception to the rule if I choose to be.......So, I choose to be. You can't have it both ways, subjective reality in some areas, but not in others, plus it relieves me of the need to form judgments and take sides in things like this. Once it really soaks in it's simple. You seem to need a "cause" to give your life meaning and you choose the "meat thing" to be one of them. Have fun with that, I've opted out of "causes".

[Parthon]

Originally Posted by funchy

The whole point of the doctor's speech is that you can't eat what you want AND feel good forever: choose one or the other.

Sure you can, but the food you like has to be healthy.

Humans in modern society eat for taste, to feel full and for emotional reasons, few of us eat for the health aspect. If we didn't have taste buds or emotions then it would be dead easy to just eat healthy all the time.

The only thing we can do is train ourselves and our taste buds to enjoy the healthy food more than the unhealthy food. The problem is that we are raised on unhealthy food since birth, so it becomes natural to us. Breaking 20+ years of conditioning is the hard part.

[Rachelle]

Originally Posted by jeff3

You seem to need a "cause" to give your life meaning and you choose the "meat thing" to be one of them. Have fun with that, I've opted out of "causes".

I wouldn't say I *need* a cause to give my life meaning, but I do find joy in empowering others with information needed to make conscious life choices.

Originally Posted by Parthon

Sure you can, but the food you like has to be healthy. The problem is that we are raised on unhealthy food since birth, so it becomes natural to us. Breaking 20+ years of conditioning is the hard part.

Breaking 20+ years of conditioning isn't as hard as you might think. I did it cold turkey, and that was over 7 years ago now. I believe 21 days is the magic number in making or breaking habits. this video -( Chocolate, Cheese, Meat, and Sugar -- Physically Addictive Foods ) - talks a bit about the addiction aspects of certain foods, but the doctor giving the presentation also tells a story near the end how his own mother decided to become vegan at quite a late stage in life (late 70's? I can't recall her exact age) because of her crazy-high cholesterol levels.

I think it comes down to a simple matter of making a choice or decision, setting priorities for ourselves (health vs. "taste", environment vs. "taste", well being of others vs. our own "comfort") not only as individuals, but also as beings that have the future of the planet in their hands.

[Parthon]

It seems easy now Rachelle, but what was it like when you actually did it? It's only hard for those that haven't done it, once you get past it you don't know what the big deal is about.

I haven't made a permanent change to my diet, but after watching that entire video, and having a healthy, intelligent doctor confirm everything that I've learnt in the last 2 years, I'm definately going to make a change.

I wish I had seen this video 10 years ago.

[Aleksander Krstic]

Thank you very much for the video! You are great!

However, my mom won't allow me to go vegan. I am a vegetarian right now though and can't wait till I start earning my own money and cooking my own food!

[sirkinm]

I eat some meat, and I certainly don't eat SAD. I'm 31, and I spent about 6 years as a vegetarian, and I feel much healthier now that I've incorporated meat into my diet.

I've noticed that many vegetarians and vegans are overweight. Obviously, not all are, but my observation is that it's a trend where I've lived (Detroit, Chicago, & San Francisco). The reality often is in contrast to the veggie literature. I realize that veggie doesn't necessarily mean healthy, but I think vegetarians make the link too often.

I know the typical vegetaria/vegan stance on protein (I started my vegetarian journey by reading Diet for a New America, and I've read a lot more since). I personally believe that a higher protein diet than what many vegetarians (and Steve) recommend suits me best. Basically, I don't think I'd be more healthy if I stopped eating all meat; on the contrary, I think I'd feel less vitality, health, strength.

For me, there was a lot of ego involved in sticking to vegetarianism -- I started it because of compassion for animals, and leaving it to pursue better health was hard. partly because of my ego's attachment to the accomplishment of being a veggie. Ultimately, I feel good about my decision, which isn't to say I won't try vegetarianism/veganism again in the future.

[painofsalvation]

Originally Posted by sirkinm

I started it because of compassion for animals

May I ask you what happened to that compassion?

I've seen very few vegans for ethical reasons going back to meat and every time I see it I try to understand the reasons.

Knowing what I know about animal exploitation, I could never go back to dairy or meat, even if these were the healthiest foods on earth.

[evildon]

I love to eat food..
No matter what happens i think its good..

[sirkinm]

Originally Posted by evildon

I love to eat food..
No matter what happens i think its good..

I guess I'm not a typical meat-eater: I'm not interested in pig or red meat. I mostly eat fish and just a little poultry, but I don't really like poultry much. I do like eggs, esp. made with parsley and pepper, with buttered sourdough toast on a lazy Sunday morn in the winter. But I digress...

I'm more OK with the killing of animals now. We like to identify causes and think that we can reduce the suffering of others. It's a kind of egotism to say that others are in need of saving and we have the appropriate response. How, for example, do we know that the cow is suffering? Is it regretful that the cow in that burger over there (I'm not really pointing to a burger ) is dead now? Where has it gone, and would it like its life back? If you have the answers to these questions, please let me know.

Regardless what people say about protein requirements, I feel much better on a heavier protein diet. My strength is important to me, and it just doesn't come as easily without protein-dense foods from animal sources. I'm very familiar with the vegetarian lit that says I don't need any of it, and experience for me has been contrary to their (very agenda-driven) lit.

I'm really grateful to the animals that have given me this strength and vitality. Is it possible that the fish I'm going to eat for lunch is in another realm, grateful to me for the opportunity to give me sustenance? I think the spirit that animates animals is a mystery, and we may not be able to know its motivation for living/dying/etc. I certainly don't think that vegetarians are necessarily serving their purpose and I'm subverting it. An elaborate justification for eating meat? Perhaps.

All I know is that as I became more calm and centered throughout my years, my self-righteousness in this area diminished and I gradually started to eat meat again in a balanced fashion that serves me well. And remember: Even the Dali Lama eats a little meat, so suck on that, motha fo's!

[openeyes]

I like the example set by Paul Bragg (and carried on by his student Jack LaLanne), eating a mostly plant based diet, fasting occasionally, exercising vigorously, and eating meat when his body seemed to want it. Or as Michael Pollan would say: Eat food. Mostly plants. Not too much.

My diet changes over time, sometimes being more drawn to a semi-veg diet, other times feeling better with more meat. Right now I still eat some meat, primarily rare steak, sushi, and oysters, but not much more than once every week or two. The only non vegetarian item I have daily is lemon flavored cod liver oil, for it's health benefits.

Even though I have a couple pounds of fruits and green veggies each day via smoothies and bowls of steamed veggies, the bulk of my calories still come from cheese, butter, eggs, and dark chocolate. That doesn't bother me as I can opt for high quality items, and my health is quite good.

The last time I had my cholesterol checked I was eating 12-18 raw eggs in shakes each day, and I was said to have excellent hdl levels. Only eating a few raw eggs per day at this point, I just ordered a new blood test from Life Extension Foundation to see what my levels are now. So far I know my blood pressure, blood sugar, and bodyfat % #s are all optimal. I eat for enjoyment and health.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by jeff3

simple, not everyone is either/or, some of us actually eat all things in moderation. Besides all that, the theory of subjective reality says I can be an exception to the rule if I choose to be.......So, I choose to be. You can't have it both ways, subjective reality in some areas, but not in others, plus it relieves me of the need to form judgments and take sides in things like this. Once it really soaks in it's simple. You seem to need a "cause" to give your life meaning and you choose the "meat thing" to be one of them. Have fun with that, I've opted out of "causes".

Be careful with beliefs about subjective reality. In this case, you have already manifested a world in which meat eating is generally unhealthy. Making a new belief on top of that is likely to involve a denial of reality - deliberately looking away from what you've manifested. SR doesn't give you complete control over your reality - you need to feel it through. I sure as hell haven't got close to finding out the extent that reality is malleable, but I have burnt myself several times pretty badly by being too cocky with it.

[sirkinm]

Originally Posted by openeyes

The only non vegetarian item I have daily is lemon flavored cod liver oil, for it's health benefits.

...

The last time I had my cholesterol checked I was eating 12-18 raw eggs in shakes each day, and I was said to have excellent hdl levels. Only eating a few raw eggs per day at this point, I just ordered a new blood test from Life Extension Foundation to see what my levels are now. So far I know my blood pressure, blood sugar, and bodyfat % #s are all optimal. I eat for enjoyment and health.

I have fish oil capsuls daily too. Can you say more about the benefit of raw eggs, and how you make them palatable in shakes? Do you get the omega-3 eggs or what?

[brandongilbert]

Originally Posted by Rachelle

... especially after you watch this video?

Foods that kill healthy Eating

I eat raw-local-grass-fed dairy almost daily and have experienced totally beneficial results. I was a strict vegan for 3 years.

This being said, pasteurized factory farm animal products are not food and I would never consume them.

The only thing worth eating is raw and local products.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by sirkinm

I have fish oil capsuls daily too. Can you say more about the benefit of raw eggs, and how you make them palatable in shakes? Do you get the omega-3 eggs or what?

I tried store brand bulk eggs for a while just because they're so cheap, but I'm going back to local free range eggs. In a smoothy with a couple bananas or plenty of berries and green veggies, and just a few eggs, the taste is hardly noticeable, although high quality yolks by themselves can actually taste rather good. Many foods, such as mashed potatoes, shakes, and ice cream can easily have yolk added to them and far from it harming the taste, it become richer (Ben & Jerry's ice cream has egg yolk).

I don't get eggs specifically for omega 3, as cod liver oil is a much better source, but eggs are an excellent source of raw fat and protein in addition to various other nutrients.

WHFoods: Eggs

[Rachelle]

Originally Posted by Parthon

It seems easy now Rachelle, but what was it like when you actually did it? It's only hard for those that haven't done it, once you get past it you don't know what the big deal is about.

I haven't made a permanent change to my diet, but after watching that entire video, and having a healthy, intelligent doctor confirm everything that I've learnt in the last 2 years, I'm definately going to make a change.

I wish I had seen this video 10 years ago.

To be honest, Parthon, it honestly didn't seem difficult at all when I first went vegan! The only thing I missed was cheese because I used to really love cheese. But knowing what I know, I didn't and don't really want to eat cheese ever again. Especially when I found out what rennet was. :P

Good luck on whatever changes you decide to make.

[Aleksander Krstic]

Originally Posted by sirkinm

And remember: Even the Dali Lama eats a little meat, so suck on that, motha fo's!

I won't try to explain to you that meat is bad for you. But no matter from which point of view, calling someone a mother****er isn't funny.

[sirkinm]

Originally Posted by openeyes

I tried store brand bulk eggs for a while just because they're so cheap, but I'm going back to local free range eggs. In a smoothy with a couple bananas or plenty of berries and green veggies, and just a few eggs, the taste is hardly noticeable, although high quality yolks by themselves can actually taste rather good. Many foods, such as mashed potatoes, shakes, and ice cream can easily have yolk added to them and far from it harming the taste, it become richer (Ben & Jerry's ice cream has egg yolk).

I don't get eggs specifically for omega 3, as cod liver oil is a much better source, but eggs are an excellent source of raw fat and protein in addition to various other nutrients.

WHFoods: Eggs

Thanks! My only concern is that it doesn't make the shake too foamy. I love making elaborate breakfast shakes in my magic bullet (my only regret is that the magic bullet is so small), and it never occured to me to add a raw egg. I know a lot of Americans are afraid to eat raw eggs because of food poisening -- I know that concern is a little overblown, esp. when you get the egg from a reputable sources. Asian peeps eat raw eggs all the time -- when I lived in Japan, a man in my household would put a raw egg into a glass of sake

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Be careful with beliefs about subjective reality. In this case, you have already manifested a world in which meat eating is generally unhealthy. Making a new belief on top of that is likely to involve a denial of reality - deliberately looking away from what you've manifested. SR doesn't give you complete control over your reality - you need to feel it through. I sure as hell haven't got close to finding out the extent that reality is malleable, but I have burnt myself several times pretty badly by being too cocky with it.

Actually not everyone in the world who eats meat is unhealthy, only those under the "meat is unhealthy spell", either by choice or by default. If you don't have your own mind, you will fall in with the "collective mind" or "mass mind" as some have put it, the religious call it the "world" , like in "even as I overcome the world, so shall you", referring to belief trumping reality. So I'm not denying reality, I honestly never bought into the meat is unhealthy view anyway. Where SR causes problems is with conflicting beliefs, and in this particular area of my life my beliefs are well formed. I've read all the arguments and moral/ethical issues and still what I see, in my world, is something different. It is interesting though, that we be in the same game but have different rules. I just started to choose new rules, like other people trying to make changes in their reality.

It's actually kinda' funny you would say "be careful with beliefs........." , I've manifested one more person telling me "I can't _____", that started when I was a child and continues to play interference.

[sirkinm]

Originally Posted by Aleksander Krstic

I won't try to explain to you that meat is bad for you. But no matter from which point of view, calling someone a mother****er isn't funny.

It was a joke -- I said mutha fo's, not mother f*****, because I think the term mutha fo is funny, and I added it as an ironic joke to punctuate a not-very-relevant point about the Dali Lama, to make light of how these debates can get so serious and accusatory. I didn't mean to upset your sensitive nature

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by sirkinm

It was a joke -- I said mutha fo's, not mother f*****, because I think the term mutha fo is funny, and I added it as an ironic joke to punctuate a not-very-relevant point about the Dali Lama, to make light of how these debates can get so serious and accusatory. I didn't mean to upset your sensitive nature

Careful with that, I got my hand slapped for much less.

[sirkinm]

Originally Posted by jeff3

Careful with that, I got my hand slapped for much less.

I will be, with mutha fos like Aleksander walking around in a virtual nun's habit with his ruler at the ready. I'm just joshin'