Meditation question

[Datum]

I started mediating about a week ago. I can handle 10 minutes, but I after that I fall asleep. I try focusing on breathing, but it 10 minutes my mind wanders somewhere else, my thoughts jump around and I fall asleep. I am not tired, and sleep is not an issue. If I would not meditate I would not even think about sleeping. So the meditation is the cause of my sleepiness. Any idea how to beat that?

[Ralph]

Originally Posted by Datum

I started mediating about a week ago. I can handle 10 minutes, but I after that I fall asleep. I try focusing on breathing, but it 10 minutes my mind wanders somewhere else, my thoughts jump around and I fall asleep. I am not tired, and sleep is not an issue. If I would not meditate I would not even think about sleeping. So the meditation is the cause of my sleepiness. Any idea how to beat that?

An easy, fool-proof, though uncomfortable way: sit straight, without leaning on the chair. It might feel extremely uncomfortable at first, but you will get used to it over time

[Datum]

That is exactly how I do it. But nonetheless can't help but drift away. I get very sleepy, so I have to lay down, and in a second I am gone. If I stay up, I can't hold my head straight )))

An easy, fool-proof, though uncomfortable way: sit straight, without leaning on the chair. It might feel extremely uncomfortable at first, but you will get used to it over time

[therisingsun09]

There are many different postures ("Asanas" in sanskrit if it helps your googling!) you can try. Types of Yoga Asana Postures

The one that works for me is the basic sitting on the bed hands on your knees. It's important that you don't try to relax completely. The best way I could describe the ideal physical state is to be braced, like a tiger just before he pounces. You also shouldn't move once you are in your posture. You will get cramps with any position (note: cramps and pain are different things!) but if you allow it to distract your attention you'll miss out on the experience of meditating properly.

Edit: Also perhaps you might like to try Yoga instead as you can keep moving. I really like Surya Namaskara (literally Sun Salutations), you can get videos of them on youtube

[MartialDev]

Originally Posted by Datum

I started mediating about a week ago. I can handle 10 minutes, but I after that I fall asleep. I try focusing on breathing, but it 10 minutes my mind wanders somewhere else, my thoughts jump around and I fall asleep. I am not tired, and sleep is not an issue. If I would not meditate I would not even think about sleeping. So the meditation is the cause of my sleepiness. Any idea how to beat that?

You may think you are not sleepy, but your body is telling the truth.

Have you tried going for a jog, and meditating immediately afterwards?

[magi13]

Originally Posted by Datum

I started mediating about a week ago. I can handle 10 minutes, but I after that I fall asleep. I try focusing on breathing, but it 10 minutes my mind wanders somewhere else, my thoughts jump around and I fall asleep. I am not tired, and sleep is not an issue. If I would not meditate I would not even think about sleeping. So the meditation is the cause of my sleepiness. Any idea how to beat that?

don't meditate straight if you can't handle it, divide your time into chunks.

For example:

I plan to meditate for 8 hours.

I'll meditate for ten minutes then do the exact opposite of that for 5 minutes. and meditate again. till I reach my quota.

[KatJ]

What is meditating, exactly?
What are you trying to do while meditating?

Sorry for the naive questions!

[therisingsun09]

Originally Posted by KatJ

What is meditating, exactly?
What are you trying to do while meditating?

Sorry for the naive questions!

Good point actually, it's a very ambiguous word. I'd also like to ask you what your goal is with meditation

[KatJ]

Well, I don't really have one being as I don't know what it is!

[Acting Like Godot]

Your mind is a crazy horse. All day long, it runs from place to place, generating thoughts at random and you essentially have very little control over it. In a day, you generate 60,000+ thoughts, a significant percentage of which are repetitive, non-constructive and beyond your control.

For example, you may worry a lot about something you cannot help. You may even realise that there's nothing you can do about it; and that your worrying does not help the situation. Yet you worry and worry and worry .... because you simply cannot stop your mind. Your mind controls you, not the other way around.

The above is a small example of your own lack of control over your mind. There are numerous other kinds of examples. Eg you lose your temper when you know you shouldn't; you continue to carry out addictive patterns of behaviour even though you want to drop them; you feel shy / nervous / insecure in certain kinds of environments, even though you know perfectly well that there is no reason to feel like that.

Very often, you may even mistake your thoughts for an "objective" reality. For example, you may feel that your mother-in-law is a ♥♥♥♥♥; your boss is unappreciative; the world is coming to an end; your tummy is too fat; your penis is too small; your father was too unkind to you when you were a child; you're going to get retrenched; and maybe that lump in your throat is cancer.

To what extent are those "facts", and to what extent are they "thoughts"? In meditation, you will begin to experience .... something.

So you may see that meditation is how you begin the process of reclaiming some degree of control over your poor little overwrought panicky fearful angry excited impulsive monkey mind.

[WordKeeper]

I have done something much like meditation for 15 years. Ultimately the goal is to sit for 2 20minutes periods per day.

That you are meditating 10minutes in the first week you started is significant. Meditation takes practice. You have jumped in with both feet. Try backing off. Set a timer for 5 minutes and do this a couple of times per day increasing slowly. You decide the rate.

Perhaps increasing 1 or 2 minutes a week.

I agree that you may not feel tired but that your body is telling that you are. Are you sure it is a bad thing that you are falling asleep?

[KatJ]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Your mind is a crazy horse. All day long, it runs from place to place, generating thoughts at random and you essentially have very little control over it. In a day, you generate 60,000+ thoughts, a significant percentage of which are repetitive, non-constructive and beyond your control.

For example, you may worry a lot about something you cannot help. You may even realise that there's nothing you can do about it; and that your worrying does not help the situation. Yet you worry and worry and worry .... because you simply cannot stop your mind. Your mind controls you, not the other way around.

The above is a small example of your own lack of control over your mind. There are numerous other kinds of examples. Eg you lose your temper when you know you shouldn't; you continue to carry out addictive patterns of behaviour even though you want to drop them; you feel shy / nervous / insecure in certain kinds of environments, even though you know perfectly well that there is no reason to feel like that.

Very often, you may even mistake your thoughts for an "objective" reality. For example, you may feel that your mother-in-law is a ♥♥♥♥♥; your boss is unappreciative; the world is coming to an end; your tummy is too fat; your penis is too small; your father was too unkind to you when you were a child; you're going to get retrenched; and maybe that lump in your throat is cancer.

To what extent are those "facts", and to what extent are they "thoughts"? In meditation, you will begin to experience .... something.

So you may see that meditation is how you begin the process of reclaiming some degree of control over your poor little overwrought panicky fearful angry excited impulsive monkey mind.

So basically meditation is just sitting without thinking about anything?

[Writertype]

Originally Posted by MartialDev

You may think you are not sleepy, but your body is telling the truth.

Sounds about right. In today's society (at least in the United States) people tend to sleep deprive themselves. You may not notice it, but you are probably running at a sleep deficit. If you were fully awake I think you would have a hard time dropping to sleep in ten minutes at any random time throughout the day.

Try getting more sleep and see if anything changes for you.

[therisingsun09]

Great post Acting like Godot.

Originally Posted by KatJ

So basically meditation is just sitting without thinking about anything?

Don't try to reduce it to anything. When your brain is quiet you hear the sound of the universe (ok that's a bit cheesy for me too), and no words can ever come close to conveying it, only the experience.

In the upanishads there is a way of teaching this state of being known as Neti Neti ("neither this, nor that"). Any attempt to rationalise it, to put it into words dissolves the essence of it.

At the start of the Yoga Sutras: "Yoga is the intentional stopping of the spontaneous activity of the mind". You are described as a great ocean, and the mind is described like a great wind. It goes on to say "let that wind depart, let the water be still" or something to that effect.

Long story short, just try it!

Still listening? I must sound like I'm talking a load of bollox The question in my earlier post was for the original poster btw

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by KatJ

So basically meditation is just sitting without thinking about anything?

It depends, as there are many different types of meditation.

For example, in some forms of meditation, you do not seek to stop thinking, but instead carefully observe your thoughts as they arise. In other forms of meditation (eg Buddhist analytical meditation), you may deliberately meditate on certain types of topics (eg relating to death, or impermanence, or compassion) so as to gain a deeper understanding of such matters.

Meditation can also lead to several different kinds of benefits, and so people may meditate for different reasons.

If you meditate regularly, these are some of the benefits you may expect to experience (in your everyday life, not just during your meditation sessions):

(1) increased powers of concentration

(2) greater sense of peace, calm and serenity

(3) sudden, spontaneous insights into your issues and problems (you become wiser, basically)

(4) you enjoy your daily activities more (the simple reason is that your mind stops dancing around randomly, so you actually become more present and more attentive to what you are actually doing - after that, even simple activities such as drinking a cup of tea become more pleasurable).

(5) you lose your idiosyncratic little fears and insecurities

(6) you have greater capacity to choose your responses to the situations that appear in your life. You become less likely to act out a conditioned response (eg you won't automatically get angry, just because your partner / mother / child has just done something which normally automatically makes you get angry).

[therisingsun09]

(7) You'll have realisations as normal and will have no problem putting them to practical use. e.g. for weight loss I realised that I connect food with desire instead of appetite (i.e. "I want it" vs. "I'm hungry"). A few years ago I could have realised this but nothing would have changed. Now just the knowledge of it seems to be enough for me to put it to use.

[KatJ]

Okay, thank you for all the info!

[HlynurT]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Your mind is a crazy horse. All day long, it runs from place to place, generating thoughts at random and you essentially have very little control over it. In a day, you generate 60,000+ thoughts, a significant percentage of which are repetitive, non-constructive and beyond your control.

For example, you may worry a lot about something you cannot help. You may even realise that there's nothing you can do about it; and that your worrying does not help the situation. Yet you worry and worry and worry .... because you simply cannot stop your mind. Your mind controls you, not the other way around.

The above is a small example of your own lack of control over your mind. There are numerous other kinds of examples. Eg you lose your temper when you know you shouldn't; you continue to carry out addictive patterns of behaviour even though you want to drop them; you feel shy / nervous / insecure in certain kinds of environments, even though you know perfectly well that there is no reason to feel like that.

Very often, you may even mistake your thoughts for an "objective" reality. For example, you may feel that your mother-in-law is a ♥♥♥♥♥; your boss is unappreciative; the world is coming to an end; your tummy is too fat; your penis is too small; your father was too unkind to you when you were a child; you're going to get retrenched; and maybe that lump in your throat is cancer.

To what extent are those "facts", and to what extent are they "thoughts"? In meditation, you will begin to experience .... something.

So you may see that meditation is how you begin the process of reclaiming some degree of control over your poor little overwrought panicky fearful angry excited impulsive monkey mind.

Wow....
out of those 8 things you mentioned 5 of them where actually things I have though greatly about the past days... wow..

[Big C]

When i first started meditating i always fell asleep but took that as a positive sign of being able to relax. Now i can meditate and use visualisations without actually falling asleep. On coming out of the meditation i always feel very refreshed, i started doing 10 min sessions now they last 30-40 mins but really feel like a fraction of that time. Sometimes i use meditation music in the background, i concentrate on my breathing inhaling and exhaling, when my mind started to drift off and i found myself thinking about all sorts i just returned to concentrating on my breathing, this over a period of time i found sort of trained me to be able to clear my mind easier and therefore made it easier to get into the meditation state. Really its just practice.

[Datum]

Today, for the first time, I was able to successfully complete 20 min meditation without falling asleep. Towards the end, for less than a minute, I had this feeling like I was in warm bubble. I could not hold that feeling long enough and had to finish because my legs were falling asleep.
Thank you for your support guys.

[therisingsun09]

Great

[sirkinm]

Personally, I like to lie down when I meditate. I don't fall asleep. I think I read something by Osho that he does this as well. Anyway, whatever works, right. I've heard many wise people say that after repeatedly "failing" at meditation, they went on to practice mindfulness and reaped many benefits.

[Swami ZazvatAnanda]

Many people confuse meditation with a good nap, that is certainly not correct. Meditation is not about going off on a mindless dream, it is the training to focus your mind, building the mental muscle to stay focused and present.

I do not know your practice, so forgive me if i am saying what you already do but try this. Keep the room bright, at least reasonably bright so it is not like night time. Burn a candle if you like to, there is some significance to that, but for now, it is not important to discuss.

No music, preferably no sounds at all if you can have a room that is quiet enough.

if you can sit in full lotus, great, but the point is that in that position, your spine rests naturally straight. so you need a firm cushion to support your bum and back, nothing too comfy.

if you would like to try a flat seat chair, like a kitchen chair, put a phone book under the back legs, you may need one under each leg, of course the same thickness, about 3 inches/ 6 cm. so that the seat slopes downwards.

sit only half way on the seat, not all the way back. have your feet flat on the floor, so make sure the chair is not too high for you. You will find that your spine is naturally straight now.

Let your eyes focus on a point, put a small coin or anything about the size of a coin, on the floor. Keep your eyes open and look only on that one spot.

Make sure the room is well ventilated. often it is just stale air that can cause sleepiness. Long enough in a room with no ventilation and you fall unconscious and die. so it is reasonable to start to fall asleep if this is the case.

Let me know how this goes and then i can give you further refinements and instructions. I have a few more methods that have been very successful at staying awake in meditation.

[ginkgo]

I have had a lot of experience with this. Part of it is meditation dealing with subconscious traumas where you were unconscious or in shock (partially unconscious). So this is part of the healing process (the reliving of traumas).

Also people can only sleep to a certain point due to a normal stress level. Meditation lowers that stress level. So go to sleep and when you wake up start meditating again. Then if you fall asleep again then when you wake up start doing meditation again. The sleep from this is also healing.

I have been doing the same type of mediation for 32 years in the full lotus position. Before that I tried many types for enlightenment. Scientology calls what I first described as "anaten." I would sit down to meditate for many hours and would have to go to sleep. Once all the traumas are healed then it will not happen any more (as described by Big C above). You can sit for 4 hours totally awake.