It's hard being Vegan

[VeganMelissa]

Hi everyone, this is my very first post on any forum ever so please don't eat me alive! Anyway, I was hoping that other vegans out there might have some ways of dealing with nonvegans and food. I've been vegan for three months now and getting though the holiday at work was difficult. I have told MANY people that I am vegan but they don't seem to get it. For a Christmas party I had to call the place ahead of time to find out if they could make me a vegan meal because the woman who was setting up the party chuckled at me when I asked about the menu and told her I was vegan. For a Christmas lunch I caught hold of a (thankfully) vegatarian waitress who quickly got me a huge salad and a sweet potato. Now, we have to work this weekend and they always provide us food. So I went to our directors office and told her that I was Vegan (she should have caught on at the 2 parties we were at together but I'll let it slide) and could she order a pizza with just veggies on it because I do not eat cheese. I won't tell you the entire conversation (becuase I might bore you) but she ended up throwing her pen dramatically across her desk while saying in a very nasty tone, Send me an email of exactly what you want and that's what I'll get. I just told her what I wanted, what is the big deal. Why do non-vegans freak out about food requests. If I had asked to make sure there was pepperoni pizza there would she have made a big deal about it? I don't think so. It's really starting to get to me. Do I just work with a bunch of inconsiderate people or has anyone else experienced this? I really thought that choosing this life style would be a good thing and physically for me I think it has but other people are really rude about it.
I also must mention that I got 4 boxes of chocolate from people at work that know I'm vegan. What is that about???

[Lucas]

My biggest advice would be not to rely on other people. If you are going to a party with a majority of non-vegans, take something with you. My gf and I just did that with some sweet potato chili, and some vegan chai latte muffins. They were a huge hit. At places, dont ask for special treatment, try to find it yourself..dont make it a big deal in anyway. As for the pizza, make it not sound like a big deal..tell them a veggie lovers type pizza with no cheese. No cheese isnt going to be a weird request for pizza places, trust me.

As for the gifts, people not in your paradigm wont see that, so just thank them for the gifts and give them to chocolate loving friends.

Oh, and honestly, from my short perception it sounds like you are sort of forcing your veganism on other people, or making it known that you are different. Like "I AM A VEGAN, DUMBASS!!" kind of mentality.

If not, I apologize.

[Cron]

Support For New Vegans: Vegan Buddies Project

[VeganMelissa]

Thanks for the advice Lucas. I really don't have the mentality of "I'm a Vegan you Dumbass!" At least I'd like to think I don't but you obviously perceived me that way so maybe that is what I'm doing. I don't want to be that way. I purposefully went to each of these people when no one else was around because I didn't want to make a big deal about it. I guess I'm just being crabby about because the situation just happened and I'm feeling like such an outcast. Maybe you're right, I'm the one outcasting myself. Hmmmm.

[Erin Pavlina]

Hi Melissa,

Your situation is very common among new vegans. We probably have an article at my magazine, VegFamily, that covers it. Browse around and see.

But in general, you cannot expect anyone to make special arrangements for you. You can hope. You can even request. But never expect. Always have a back up for yourself because even if someone does order something special for you, in my experience, about half the time it comes out wrong. Like they sprinkle cheese on an otherwise perfect salad.

At work, always bring your own food, even if the company is providing for you. At events, I like to contact the catering manager directly and ask for a vegan meal. I make a simple request like a fruit plate or grilled veggies in just oil. But I will often eat a medium sized meal before going to an event just in case they have nothing for me when I get there. I also usually smuggle a few energy bars in my purse for extreme hunger emergencies. Sometimes I'll just slip into the bathroom to eat one, or I'll just whip it out at the table.

In time, your coworkers will get used to your lifestyle choice, but it does take time. People will make snide comments. People will make encouraging and curious comments. You'll get it all.

One thing I used to do when I worked in a corporate environment was go up to the person in charge of ordering for the event and say, "Hi Mary, as you know I'm vegan. I was wondering if you were planning to order anything for this event that I'll be able to eat. If not, I'll just plan to bring my own food or eat before I come. I just wanted to find out the situation in advance."

Now notice I didn't ask her to order me anything but made her aware of my situation and left it up to her. Nine times out of ten she would be delighted and pleased to help me out, going out of her way to find out what I could eat. I find that when you don't expect people are often willing to help.

Anyway, give it a try.

One time they ordered a cheeseless veggie pizza along with 3 other pizzas dripping with cheese and meat. When people came into the conference room everyone dove into the cheeseless veggie pizza! Leaving none for me! Even though they all requested the pepperoni. After that, I always made sure I got to the conference room first to grab a couple slices of the cheeseless veggie pizza. Finally someone got the clue and started ordering 3 cheeseless veggies and only one pepperoni. Weird huh?

Good luck to you

[elainevdw]

I personally haven't been able to stick to a strict vegan lifestyle.

But when I was trying it out, I found it helped not to explain why you do or don't eat something. It's easier just to say, "No thanks" when someone offers you a nonvegan food item, and to simply say, "It sounded tasty" when somebody asks you why you got the veggie sandwich at the cafeteria instead of your usual turkey sandwich.

Of course, when you have coworkers who really like to treat you to cookies and stuff, because they KNOW you love cookies, and you suddenly start turning them down -- they WILL question you and try to change your mind and get you to eat their cookies again! In the cases where you say "No thanks" but they still force food onto you... I'd sneak it into the garbage or pass it on to someone else as soon as they leave. Just because someone gives you food doesn't mean you have to eat it.

I guess one important thing to remember is that food is very social, and by rejecting someone's food, some people feel rejected themselves. You'd think food would be a completely neutral topic, but as you continue your vegan lifestyle, you'll find out that it's extremely tied in with people's emotions, self-worth, and views of the world.

Good luck!

And no, I didn't get the "I'm a vegan, dumbass" feel from your post, so don't worry about it. I think the problem is more that you don't expect it to be a big deal, but the people in the world who think that chicken is a vegetable (or "bruchetta doesn't count" -- yes, they exist) will have no friggin' clue what you're talking about. I can't tell you the number of times a well-meaning cook I know has gone to length to create me a "vegan" dish, just for me to find out that it's slathered in butter or something.

[Erin Pavlina]

If they are your close friends and co workers, you gotta tell them you're vegan if they keep giving you foods that aren't. If you accept them and throw them away, eventually the friend will find out you're vegan and say, "Hey, but what did you do with the fudge I gave you?" If you tell them you threw it out that's even worse than a polite thank you with an explanation.

I just say, "Oh those cookies look great, but I can't eat them since I'm vegan. Would you mind if I passed them along to someone else?" or ask if they would like to give them to someone else.

If people feel rejected and you did not intend to reject them, that's their issue to work out.

On the other hand, you want to be careful not to offend people outright by saying something like, "God, I can't believe you would disrespect my lifestyle choice by offering me fudge. Are you trying to say you don't respect me?"

[Andrew Brunelle]

Originally Posted by VeganMelissa

Hi everyone, this is my very first post on any forum ever so please don't eat me alive!

Funny thing, if I was a vegan, eating you alive would be wrong from many moral standpoints. I know what you are saying, the fact that you feel like people get all pissed off when you eat vegan because they think you're crazy for eating that way, that it is unacceptable to do something that other people dont. I've tried going vegan, but to no avail yet, although I'm making many leaps as I'm at vegetarianism. I know dairy products are awful. I hardly eat them, but if someone in my family cooks a great meal that just happens to contain cheese, how can I turn it down? It would be an insult to whoever cooked it. It can be very isolatory unless you have people around you that are also vegan/vegetarian. Do what feels right.

[elainevdw]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

If they are your close friends and co workers, you gotta tell them you're vegan if they keep giving you foods that aren't. If you accept them and throw them away, eventually the friend will find out you're vegan and say, "Hey, but what did you do with the fudge I gave you?" If you tell them you threw it out that's even worse than a polite thank you with an explanation.

I guess the problem was that I told my coworkers no thank you, then they kept trying to give it to me, then I told them I wasn't eating it because I was vegan, and they still kept forcing it on me. (People like to feed me for some reason.) There was no arguing with these people. To them, Elaine = Somebody Who Likes Cookies (and fudge? oh god, yum!!!), so they tried to force me back into that personae, even though I was trying to change my personae to Elaine = Somebody Who Doesn't Eat Animal Products. It was like, heaven forbid that Elaine no longer = Somebody Who Likes Cookies. Why it never occurred to them that I LOVE vegan cookies, I have no idea.

Thanks for the clarification, though -- friends do deserve an explanation. My problem is that they never listened to or respected my explanation. Which is where the trusty old trash bin came in handy!

[VeganMelissa]

Thanks so much for the advice. It's so great to hear some advice from people who get it!

[gberardi]

I'm still periodically getting comments like "Yeah, we already knew you were weird" or "You can't eat anything anymore". People aren't being mean in general, and I just take the comments as "You're being different from everyone", which is not exactly the worst thing in the world to be.

Part of the problem is that the word "vegan" can mean nothing to someone who hasn't ever heard it before. Vegan sounds like vegetarian, and all most people know about vegetarians is that they don't eat meat. Of course dairy and eggs would seem to be fine! Who doesn't love chocolate, cheese, and omelets?

Also, since vegan-friendly food is generally harder to find, it will seem to many people that you are deprived. I noticed that my usual interaction with other people is to say "Oh, I can't eat that", and so of course they are going to look at me as the deprived, starving, weirdo vegan. B-) I eat a LOT when I am at home and can prepare my own food, but going out to eat with friends isn't as easy as when I could just point my finger at any item and order it.

So, I guess you're not alone. It is hard being different. When the company provides food, there is NEVER anything without cheese or meat in it, so I just don't eat at the events or I bring my own food. I guess I feel lucky because the only people who don't seem to understand are my parents and cousins, and I generally only eat with them once a week. B-)

[Erin Pavlina]

It can take people a while to update their files on you. Family can be the slowest to get the change.

For at least 2 years after I'd gone vegan my mom still offered me tuna. Ugh. I would just stay silent until she remembered.

[Healthyfit]

Originally Posted by Lucas

My biggest advice would be not to rely on other people. If you are going to a party with a majority of non-vegans, take something with you. My gf and I just did that with some sweet potato chili, and some vegan chai latte muffins. They were a huge hit. At places, dont ask for special treatment, try to find it yourself..dont make it a big deal in anyway. As for the pizza, make it not sound like a big deal..tell them a veggie lovers type pizza with no cheese. No cheese isnt going to be a weird request for pizza places, trust me.

As for the gifts, people not in your paradigm wont see that, so just thank them for the gifts and give them to chocolate loving friends.

Oh, and honestly, from my short perception it sounds like you are sort of forcing your veganism on other people, or making it known that you are different. Like "I AM A VEGAN, DUMBASS!!" kind of mentality.

If not, I apologize.

Great Advice...many people react negatively to people choosing a healthy lifestyle because it seems to others that this person thinks that he or she is "better"

You may not feel this way but downplaying your requests might do the trick. You decided to be vegan so make sure that you are prepared in every situation.

Good Luck!

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by gberardi

I'm still periodically getting comments like "Yeah, we already knew you were weird" or "You can't eat anything anymore". People aren't being mean in general, and I just take the comments as "You're being different from everyone", which is not exactly the worst thing in the world to be.

Part of the problem is that the word "vegan" can mean nothing to someone who hasn't ever heard it before. Vegan sounds like vegetarian, and all most people know about vegetarians is that they don't eat meat. Of course dairy and eggs would seem to be fine! Who doesn't love chocolate, cheese, and omelets?

Also, since vegan-friendly food is generally harder to find, it will seem to many people that you are deprived. I noticed that my usual interaction with other people is to say "Oh, I can't eat that", and so of course they are going to look at me as the deprived, starving, weirdo vegan. B-) I eat a LOT when I am at home and can prepare my own food, but going out to eat with friends isn't as easy as when I could just point my finger at any item and order it.

So, I guess you're not alone. It is hard being different. When the company provides food, there is NEVER anything without cheese or meat in it, so I just don't eat at the events or I bring my own food. I guess I feel lucky because the only people who don't seem to understand are my parents and cousins, and I generally only eat with them once a week. B-)

Heh, I can definitely relate (not just to GBeradi, but to all vegans in general). And on a random note, damn, what is it with cheese, milk solids and, well, dairy products in general? They’re in practically everything these days! Soon you’ll look on the back of a clothing label and you’ll see the words “Made from 95% cotton and 5% milk solids. May contain traces of nuts, seeds, and eggs. Warm machine was only.” Oh and I found it particularly amusing when I noticed that the “vegan” cheese I was looking at a while ago contained casein.

Anyway, I personally found it really easy to drop meat and other animal products (I just... stopped eating them -- no cravings, withdrawals, or ritualistic sacrificial behaviour ), and actually started to like the concept of eating those things much less after I transitioned to a vegan/mostly whole food diet (from my experience, meat/dairy/eggs become quite repulsive once strip yourself free of the social conditioning of the “normal” diet and experience what it’s like to go without them for once in your life. I could probably eat meat again if I had to for some reason, but I’ll pass on the dairy and eggs, thanks). The two things I've found (and am still finding) most difficult dealing with though is the complete lack of support I get from local shopping venues in terms of availability of vegan-friendly products, and, much like you, VeganMelissa, people who really have issues dealing with the diet choices of someone else.

As for “public exposure”, I generally don't call attention to my diet choice unless it's necessary/unavoidable, but even so, once someone gets word of it, I find they like to call you out on it every chance they get (<insert condescending tone> “Oh, that’s right you’re vegan, you can’t eat that”, etc.). It's generally highly unnecessary and proves that some people have some real acceptance issues, but eh, I’ll take my healthy, disease/sickness/ailment-free body and let others take shots at me in between complaining about their various bodily issues. (I mean yeah, I too could call out many people for the absolute rubbish they willingly choose to shovel down their throats, but if they won’t listen to the cries of help from their body, I’ll have little chance of getting through to them. Apparently it’s only time to pay attention once you’ve had a heart attack or something equally as damaging).

To anyone who finds themselves being bombarded with ridicule from an inconsiderate meat-eater who's just looking to look big and tough though in front of their ego, I’d bring their dietary choices into their awareness and ask them if they’d be willing to slaughter the animals they consume. If they are amenable to that, add their favourite pet into the equation and see how they fare. It may sound a little harsh, but your goal is not to insult them, rather, you're looking to bring their behaviour and consequences of their diet (consequences they are often unconscious of until they actually think about it a bit and say "damn... didn't think of it like that") into their awareness and invoke some compassion, or at least, some intelligence and awareness.

From my experience, one of the biggest issues most people get caught up with when it comes to veganism is the fact that you give your diet a name/label (although you could easily give the standard, chronically unhealthy diet most people eat a name such as “you’re going to die if you keep eating like that” or “mmmm, processed chemicals... my favorite!”). I don’t really need a label to remind me of what I do/do not eat, but I do find it easier to call myself a vegan over “someone who doesn’t eat meat, cheese, eggs, or drink milk” when I need to describe my eating habits to other people. And I too find it rather amusing when I get looked at (or ridiculed) as the “deprived, starving, weirdo vegan”.

You try to tell people you’re not missing out on much (most semi-healthy people aren’t even aware that a lot of what they eat can actually be considered to be “vegan”, and most other food is probably about as healthy as licking a street pole), but sadly, virtually everyone (bar maybe 2 people) who are aware of my diet choices are usually too busy focusing on diet comparison/ridicule to even take an interest exploring the notion of a vegan diet or taking the opportunity to discuss the matter with reasonable intelligence with a hope of learning something. Even before I was vegan, I was always open to learning from others and making improvements to/experimenting with my diet (one of the many reasons why I’m experimenting with a veganism in the first place).

Overall, I think you can only do your best and take pride in the fact that you’ve made a conscious, informed decision in an attempt to improve your health and the well being of the few animals who no longer has to be subject to excessive cruelty just to sustain your existence (although I do feel for the plants that must be harvested to sustain me, but they don’t seem to mind too much).

[elainevdw]

Bruce, your post made me laugh! But it's so very true.

[Naomi Matalon]

Good for you for going vegan! It can be frustrating sometimes dealing with an uncomprehending world.

My take on your co-workers' behavior is that they weren't necessarily being rude or inconsiderate; they may not have realized how important your dietary choices are to you or understood what vegan really means.

I've been vegan for nearly 17 years and I handle most events such as these by making do with whatever vegan food is available, asking questions about ingredients when necessary. When ordering off a menu in such a situation, I'll ask the server for more details about ingredients and whether certain variations are possible, keeping in mind that it's always a gamble whether their information is accurate.

It's true that this approach may not always yield the most exciting meal, but I realize that I'm in a minority by my own choice, and don't wish to give whomever's organizing the event one more thing to worry about. I recall one wedding during which I ate nothing but white rice, and another at which my meal consisted of two small dinner salads -- I was grateful those options were available, as it would've been awkward to have nothing to put in my mouth while everyone around me was eating.

Don't get me wrong, I'm into good food and I'm not a martyr! When dining with omnivores on a more personal level, I don't hesitate to steer them toward vegan (or at least vegetarian) restaurants. Over the years, certain people have demonstrated what seems like a bit of hostility (my father) or passive-agressiveness (my partner's mother) when it comes to where we eat or what is served at home, but those are the times I get to show my flexibility!

Keep up the good work!

[VeganMelissa]

Thank you EVERYONE for responding to my post. I don't know how to express how great it is to get opinions and ideas from other vegans.
PS. The work/food situation worked out this time and I had a few really great vegan options to choose from, in the end I'm glad I spoke up.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Being vegan is something I will definitely do very soon. Fruits and vegetables are what I eat mostly anyway, and some nuts/seeds. Meat is unnecessary in a diet, so is dairy. I hate dairy products and can always find an alternative snack/drink. Herbal tea for drink, or simply plain water, possibly spiked with lemon. Chocolate is my only vice. It is too good. Maybe I should find vegan chocolate, made with nut milk or rice milk. Not soymilk, though. I'm not a big soy fan. I'll figure out what I have to do soon. Raw veganism is probably where I want to be. It would be a less of a burden on the electric bill and less burns from the stove. May be worth it.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Being vegan is something I will definitely do very soon. Fruits and vegetables are what I eat mostly anyway, and some nuts/seeds. Meat is unnecessary in a diet, so is dairy. I hate dairy products and can always find an alternative snack/drink. Herbal tea for drink, or simply plain water, possibly spiked with lemon. Chocolate is my only vice. It is too good. Maybe I should find vegan chocolate, made with nut milk or rice milk. Not soymilk, though. I'm not a big soy fan. [...]

I rarely buy chocolate, but if I do, I buy the chocolate bars from Sweet Williams. As far as I understand it, they aren't made with any soymilk. The ingredients list on their "Original" (plain) chocolate bar is as follows:

Ingredients:

• Cane sugar
• Cocoa butter
• Soy flour
• Cocoa mass
• Emulsifiers (Soya lecithin, 476)
• Flavour

[...] May contain traces of almonds. Trans fatty acid free. GMO free - supplier certified. Suitable for vegan.

Nutritional information is as follows (I won't list everything, just the more important ones... and since I live in Australia, everything is in metric measurements -- just whip out an online conversion table [scroll down to the brown table for weight measurements] if you want conversions):

Serving size = 50g = 1 bar

• Fat- total = 18.3g. DV = 28%
  • Saturated = 10.0g. DV = 50%
  • Trans = 0.0g
  • Monounsaturates = 6.2g.
  • Polyunsaturates = 2.1g
• Cholesterol = 0.0mg
• Sodium = 7mg. DV = 0%
• Protein = 5.3g. DV = 11%
• Lactose = 0.0g
• Cocoa solids content DV = 38%

* Percentage Daily Values (DV) of Percentage Daily Intake is per serve, and is based on a diet of 2000 calories (8350k). Your daily intake may be more of less depending on your energy needs. Nutritional values based on average.

* Natural fats are from soy and cocoa.

You can check out their product range (ie. the range of flavours/types the bars come in) here.

In terms of taste/texture, I think they are pretty good (which is saying something, since I used to buy mostly high quality "gourmet" type chocolate when I was not vegan and don't really like low quality "candy" type chocolate that is used for just about everything). Since they aren't made with any dairy products, they have what I would describe as a "smoother", "cleaner" taste that isn't as milky as normal chocolate made with dairy. I actually prefer it to normal chocolate, as to me, the flavour is more intense and higher quality (although I do miss Guylian chocolate sea shells). Personally, my favourite flavour is the Original flavoured bar. I don't like the Tangerine flavoured bar (it just doesn't go well with the chocolate flavour, in my opinion) and I haven't tried their sugar free bars, chocolate spread, or Easter/Christmas products due to lack of availability

In terms of availability, I live in Australia, and these are the only vegan chocolates available in my area (as far as I know). You may/may not be able to get them in your area. For more information, check out the Sweet Williams International Sales and Enquiries page.

Update10/January/07:

While browsing Steve's blog archives, I found a comment where Steve gave a link to a website where you can find gourmet vegan Belgian chocolates. It seems to be something available in the USA, so those in the USA shouldn't have much trouble with availability since they offer delivery options (not sure about those outside of the USA, you'd have to either contact them and ask or try it out yourself... although they seem to offer options for international delivery in their ordering process). You can find the website here:

Rose City Chocolatier's Vegan Chocolate Selection - No dairy or milk products used.

[ticktockclok]

I tried being vegan for a couple days, and then decided that its not worth reading labels my whole life, always cooking/preparing special foods, and never being able to eat out at all. It seems to me like the runner who runs for 3 hours a day and brags about the extra five years of life he's getting for all his efforts.

I don't regret becoming vegetarian however. Its easy, healthy, and cheap. And its funny to hear all the stupid comments about how fish isn't really meat or that you have to have chicken noodle soup if you have a cold.

[Erin Pavlina]

Originally Posted by ticktockclok

I tried being vegan for a couple days, and then decided that its not worth reading labels my whole life, always cooking/preparing special foods, and never being able to eat out at all. It seems to me like the runner who runs for 3 hours a day and brags about the extra five years of life he's getting for all his efforts.

I don't regret becoming vegetarian however. Its easy, healthy, and cheap. And its funny to hear all the stupid comments about how fish isn't really meat or that you have to have chicken noodle soup if you have a cold.

You don't have to read labels your entire life. It does start out that way, but once you know what's vegan and what isn't you just settle into a pattern of buying the same foods. You also get much faster at reading labels as a new product comes out.

Also you get to a point where you're not cooking or preparing "special" foods. They become your "normal" menu. I would be lost if I had to prepare a roasted chicken, but grilling or sauteing some tempeh is easy for me now.

As for never being able to eat out ... hahahaha, I would be very unhappy if that were true! We eat out all the time, including mainstream restaurants like Cheesecake Factory, California Pizza Kitchen, PF Changs, not to mention all the vegetarian and vegan restaurants popping up all over the country.

Transitioning can be tough, but if you really want to be vegan, it's worth the effort. Plus, you can take advantage of all the people who transitioned before you and are now vegan. Much of the legwork has been done.

[Steve Pavlina]

Being vegan is easy. Doing vegan is hard.

If you've undergone the identity shift where you're fully vegan on the inside, it's not a big deal. But if that identity shift is a struggle and you haven't quite internalized it yet, then the actions feel hard.

To me it would be really, really hard to eat animal products because that isn't my identity. It would be like a Fear Factor experience. If I was offered $50,000 to eat a McDonald's hamburger, I really don't think I could do it. Just typing that last sentence gives me a wave of nausea, even though 20 years ago I could have eaten a burger very easily.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

As for never being able to eat out ... hahahaha, I would be very unhappy if that were true! We eat out all the time, including mainstream restaurants like Cheesecake Factory, California Pizza Kitchen, PF Changs, not to mention all the vegetarian and vegan restaurants popping up all over the country.

I'm curious, Erin (and any body else who would like to answer my question)...

What exactly do you order at restaurants such as Cheesecake Factory, California Pizza Kitchen, PF Changs, or <insert name of fairly mainstream restaurant here>?

(Whether or not the restaurants are particular high class and/or fairly deer in price. And feel free to mention things such as desserts, etc.)

I ask because I find it ridiculously difficult to "go out" and find vegan friendly foods that aren't overly bland, highly processed/refined, or inferior to what I could make at home myself (and I’m no chef, so that’s saying something). No restaurants I know of offer any vegan substitutes (apart from maybe tofu, soymilk, or simple things like noodles that aren’t made from eggs), and come to think of it, half of them probably wouldn’t even know what “vegan” means (which doesn’t surprise or worry me, it just doesn’t give me much hope in terms of being able to buy an interesting, satisfying, flavourful meal). I'll admit that I've had some success as restaurants/outlets that serve Asian dishes (since they can usually substitute tofu for any meat, and noodles that don't contain egg for noodles that -- you guessed it -- contain egg), but that's been pretty much the extent of my success.

I'd personally LOVE to order/buy a vegan-friendly pizza from somewhere (I used to love a well made pizza before I was vegan... not the nasty things they pass off as "pizza" from fast food pizza places such as Pizza Hut, though), but with what I'd be stuck with doing (probably tomato paste on a base with some sort of vegetable topping -- no vegan cheese, since it wouldn't be available), I’d be better off making it myself. Although I’d opt not to do that since I’m yet to find a vegan cheese that doesn’t look/smell/taste completely repulsive or contain casein. I’ve made a cheese sauce using nutritional yeast/savoury yeast flakes, but that was a far cry from resembling the taste and texture of actual cheese (not that I expect a cheese substitute to completely resemble cheese, but after sampling what they can do with vegan hotdog frankfurts, and after reading your article on VegFamily, Vegan Grilled Cheese and Other Small Miracles, I think they can do a little better then what I have tried so far).

My location may not be helping me (I live in Australia and I don’t live close to a major city that would be more accommodating to things like vegetarianism/veganism because of the higher population), and granted, I’m still quite a newbie vegan and I probably don’t know all of the things I could be substituting various ingredient for when ordering a meal (although I do have your book, Vegan Family Favourites, so I am aware of a few ideas when it comes to substitutions... and sorry, I linked to Amazon for your book instead of your actual ordering website because Amazon sure does has you beat on price -- maybe not on service, though ), but there must be SOME hope out there for me when it comes to eating out.

So yeah, I’d definitely like to hear from you (and anyone else interested in replying) on this one so when I go out to eat I'm not left with saying:

“Ah, yes, I’ll have the... lets see here... <insert sarcastic tone> oh, so many choices... <insert disappointed, yet unsurprised tone> *sigh*... I’ll have the salad, please.”

[gberardi]

I've ordered cheeseless pizza in the past couple of months a number of times. Apparently pizza places get much weirder requests than "No cheese, please!"

Of course, I am also curious about what people find easy to order since I have gone to a number of places that only have options such as a fruit "cup" which is more like a shot glass and some juice.

I guess you just quickly learn where NOT to eat, as well.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Hi Melissa,

I’ve already shared my experiences with veganism in one of my above posts in this thread, but to respond to some of your points directly:

Originally Posted by VeganMelissa

I've been vegan for three months now and getting though the holiday at work was difficult. I have told MANY people that I am vegan but they don't seem to get it. [...]

Now, we have to work this weekend and they always provide us food. So I went to our directors office and told her that I was Vegan (she should have caught on at the 2 parties we were at together but I'll let it slide) and could she order a pizza with just veggies on it because I do not eat cheese. I won't tell you the entire conversation (becuase I might bore you) but she ended up throwing her pen dramatically across her desk while saying in a very nasty tone, Send me an email of exactly what you want and that's what I'll get. I just told her what I wanted, what is the big deal. Why do non-vegans freak out about food requests. If I had asked to make sure there was pepperoni pizza there would she have made a big deal about it? I don't think so. [...]

I also must mention that I got 4 boxes of chocolate from people at work that know I'm vegan. What is that about???

Some people may know you are vegan, but from my experience, A) most people will forget since it’s easier for them to remember you eating a standard diet (go-go path of least resistance! ), B) some people don’t even know who or what a “vegan” is, although they’ll readily acknowledge that you are a vegan, regardless of their ignorance as to what the label is actually used for, C) some people intermittently forget you are vegan and may be offering you a vegan-friendly recipe idea one minute, and offering you a steak the next, and D) some people may be aware of what a vegan is but have varying levels of acceptance, tolerance, and abusiveness (or any combination thereof), depending on their mood.

Perhaps when you approached your director about the pizza she was not in a particularly good mood and your request (which most non-vegans would consider to be odd, strange, and/or annoying) threw a figurative, unconventional, animal-friendly spanner in her socially conditioned, meat-eating works and caused her to have a less then positive reaction. I’m not saying that makes it ok to have such a reaction (no offence to her or you, but if something so small causes her to send her pen airborne, she isn’t much of a director), but it is a possibility you may want to consider (for this, and future cases) if you haven’t already.

Either way, while it may not always be comfortable to have these experiences, I’d push through and revel in the fact that you have the resolve to pull away from the brainless, zombie-like masses (and other non-vegan individuals who consciously choose that path) and consciously choose a diet that is somewhat unconventional and probably healthier then what the vast majority of people consume. I think it’s reasonable to expect a bit of resistance from those around you, since if their unconscious diet choices are anything to go by, they definitely prefer the path of least resistance, and from what I’ve found, it’s much easier to be completely inconsiderate and ignorant then it is to be highly conscious and compassionate.

Some people may act as if you’ve greatly inconvenienced or insulted them by being a vegan (almost as if you’re doing a bad thing by no longer contributing to the suffering of animals!), but I’m sure they’d be equally inconvenienced and insulted if you gave them a nice dose of reality and put an intact, dead animal carcass in front of them and told them:

“Come on now, harvest that animal flesh. It’s good for you -- high in iron, and you need your protein! Hurry now, before it starts to decompose.”

By the way, while checking out Erin's website, VegFamily.com, earlier, I spotted and read a good article that may interest you:

Vegan at Work: Being vegan among co-workers

I definitely like the ideas presented in the article, and if it is appropriate for your workplace, you may want to give them a try. As I'm constantly discovering, if you want to fix a problem, as counterproductive as it may sound, don't focus on the problem! Instead, acknowledge the problem, and immediately focus on what I call an "answer" that takes your mind off the problem and ends up solving the problem through little effort on your part. Often many problems will simply melt away when you take your focus away from them and focus that previously wasted energy on more positive, constructive pursuits (such as those described in the article I linked to). The woman in the article doesn't seem to have any of the problems you describe, so maybe you'd do well to mimic her actions in an attempt to get similar results.

[Cynic]

What's the problem dietwise with the gifts of chocolate you got over the holidays?
Chocolate is fulla' great antioxidant compounds and a great lipid profile.
100grams a day is excellent food!

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by gberardi

I've ordered cheeseless pizza in the past couple of months a number of times.

Thanks; I didn't really think cheeseless, meatless pizza would go too well, but hey, don't knock it till you've tried it, eh? I'll have to see what I can do, although I think I'll go for the home made option since it will most likely be much higher quality (all the decent, non-card board box tasting pizza places in my area closed down ) and somewhat cheaper (pizzas prices are quite the scam these days).

Originally Posted by gberardi

Apparently pizza places get much weirder requests than "No cheese, please!"

Hmmm, I can't think of any requests weirder then "No cheese, please!" -- at least when it comes to pizza. Apparently I'm lacking creativity when it comes to ordering pizza... I'll have to re-read Steve's article, 7 Rules for Maximizing Your Creative Output.

Originally Posted by gberardi

I guess you just quickly learn where NOT to eat, as well.

Heh, my problem is that I have too many places where I've learnt NOT to eat from.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by Cynic

What's the problem dietwise with the gifts of chocolate you got over the holidays?
Chocolate is fulla' great antioxidant compounds and a great lipid profile.
100grams a day is excellent food!

Most chocolate that people would buy as a gift would be made with dairy products (namely milk solids). Sure, you can always give them to other (non-vegan) people to eat, but I don't think that was the original intention of the gift giver.

There are some dark chocolates that aren't made with dairy products (they're usually not that pleasant to eat, depending on how high the cocoa content is), but other then that, you have to resort to specifically buying vegan chocolate, which isn't always easy depending on availability. To give you an idea, my local supermarket has about half an isle devoted to non-vegan chocolate, and about 3 small boxes of vegan chocolate (easily 1% of half an isle) tucked away in a remote area of the store.

It's ironic. I'm sure more people would be willing to try veganism if product availability was better, but before product availability can be better, there needs to be more demand for vegan foods (from people willing to try veganism).

[Erin Pavlina]

PF chang's is especially accomodating. You can order any of their meat dishes and substitute tofu. So we get the sweet and sour tofu, or orange peel tofu, etc. Their coconut curry veggies are wonderful too. Schezuan green beans. Rice. Tofu lettuce wraps. Etc. They use separate oil for all their dishes.

Cheeseless pizza with all the veggies is wonderful.

But if you're used to making great home made meals, you may be disappointed with veganizing foods at restaurants. I, however, don't get much time to cook so it's a nice treat to have an interesting meal out.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by ticktockclok

I tried being vegan for a couple days, and then decided that its not worth reading labels my whole life, always cooking/preparing special foods, and never being able to eat out at all. It seems to me like the runner who runs for 3 hours a day and brags about the extra five years of life he's getting for all his efforts.

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

You don't have to read labels your entire life. It does start out that way, but once you know what's vegan and what isn't you just settle into a pattern of buying the same foods. You also get much faster at reading labels as a new product comes out.

Reading the labels isn’t exclusively a vegan practice; I used to look at labels even before I was vegan, mainly to see how highly processed/refined something was (a long list of ingredients or a bunch of crazy numbers such as "248" and "621" usually indicates it’s been heavily processed) or just to get an idea of the nutritional information. I think it’s good to be aware of what you’re putting in your mouth (refering to what the food is made of, not just the general "label" you give the food), regardless if you eat animal products or not.

As Erin has said though, you don’t always have to read the labels, it’s just something you do until you learn to recognise what you would normally read on the labels by just looking at the food. It’s generally pretty easy to spot the healthy, nutritious food from the things you should probably burn in a sacrificial fire. Although you do have a point when it comes to “cooking/preparing special foods”. You certainly get used to it after a while, but I find I’m constantly aware that I’m eating something different to most people, especially when I see them frying up a steak or biting into some chicken. It doesn’t bother you, but it’s definitely a different experience.