The Vegetarian Myth!

[Excellent Lodestar]

If Joel Salatin is the only sustainable farmer in America, maybe Everyone here should drop this until we actually get our there and experience PolyCulture first hand. I'm game.

Until then. eat broken glass folks; I'm not selling here--there's no money in it. I have no stake in what anyone here believes. Everyone believes something, and they have all the proof it seems...until they change those beliefs again.

I was presenting links that I believe ,based on my experience, present viewpoints for those who are seeking answers; not to those who've made up their minds.That's what a FORUM is for. I thought.

When a person's mind is made up, they're Identity gets involved...when that happens EVERY "opposing" viewpoint becomes a a personal threat.

I was Every shade of Vegan you can name over a 17 year period as well a semi-pro athlete. I had all the "science" behind me back then too...I don't know what's good for anyone, but I'll share what works for me based on that time spent living in this body and i apologize that I have no Peer reviewed studies to confirm my Reality

Peace folks

[Steve23]

Originally Posted by funchy

Comparative anatomy: are humans more like carnivores or herbivores?

Wow! Very Interesting!

[lgm27]

[QUOTE=funchy;283014]That is a big claim to make. Can you explain or cite sources?

Can you define "biodynamically"? I am not sure what you mean exactly. Thanks.



The problem is that the people we can easily measure are those who are living in developed countries. In America, we consider ourselves very 'developed' but we also have some of the most processed, dead, stale, tainted, and engineered food in the world. You're asking for the impossible.

By promoting a high meat diet, you're also making it harder for such a study to be done. Where would we find hundreds of thousands of people in one location if they're all following your diet advice?



The philosophy of Hinduism emphasizes living without causing cruelty to others, so many Hindu followers choose not to eat meat.

Also consider many of the major religions also had a form of murder, war, infanticide, lowering women to the level of property, acknowledgment of slavery, in some cases child or spousal abuse, and other things that most of us don't feel are such good things.

If you're Christian, you could interpret the bible to say we should not eat meat. Before we were thrown out of the Garden of Eden, we did not and everyone lived in harmony. Eating of meat is one of those things we were cursed with when we fell from grace.

Why Should Christians be Vegetarians? - Splash page
Was Jesus a Vegetarian?



Why does it make sense? What "laws of Mother Nature" are you talking about?



We all have our beliefs.



If you believe in Chi, you should be against eating meat. If you believe this theory, you understand that the energy contained in the animal is transferred to you when you eat it. The last hours or days of the animals' life was on a crowded livestock truck, then chased up a chute, then whacked over the head with a captive-bolt gun. All that stress and terror is the last thing the animal knew, and the body physiology reflects this.



But are not lions. It's more like as normal as giving ground-up sheep meal to cattle to give them cheap protein. Oh, wait, cattle are better off without meat. (Side note: we created mad-cow disease by actually doing this to cattle)

We can argue that it must be natural or else we wouldn't crave meat, right? But many of us crave soda -- what's the difference? Once people try it, many of them crave heroin which is simply a natural drug made from poppies.

The latest news is that there are compounds in dairy and meat that are proven to be addictive to humans.
AR-News:Meat and Cheese Addictive
Chocolate, Cheese, Meat, and Sugar - Physically Addictive Foods - Video Library: All Creatures Articles Archive - vegan, vegetarian, human rights, animal rights, people, animals, love, compassion, peace, justice, righteousness, God, Jesus, Christ, Ho
Casomorphin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
QUOTE]

[joelr]

[QUOTE=lgm27;433367]

Originally Posted by funchy

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We can argue that it must be natural or else we wouldn't crave meat, right? But many of us crave soda -- what's the difference? Once people try it, many of them crave heroin which is simply a natural drug made from poppies.

Soda is sugar which our bodies naturally crave.

Heroin cannot be compared to food in the "craving" sense. We crave meat and simple carbohydrates (sugar) because there are things in them our bodies want and use in a positive way. So our bodies release natural opiates to give us a (slight) feeling of pleasure when we eat them.

Heroin IS an opiate, it's generally the same chemical nature uses to get us to like things for survival. So it's not really something that can be compared to food.

[MichaelMaxwell]

I tried posting this yesterday. I hope it doesnt show up and double post me...I've heard it said that meat is vital to the brain. So I looked up some links:

On the brain's evolution: 06.14.99 - Meat-eating was essential for human evolution, says UC Berkeley anthropologist specializing in diet
On toddler brain development: Fortified Milk And Red Meat Aid Toddlers | VisitBulgaria.info - Latest Newspaper Headlines, Current Events
On brain regeneration: Science Links Japan | Meat Protein and Brain Function

I havent too thoroughly researched this but it I think it does stand to be looked at further if you are planning on pursuing a vegetarian diet or raising children vegetarian. I.e. are there amino acids, or something else, in meat that you cant find in other foods and that is important for brain function and development?

[funchy]

Originally Posted by MichaelMaxwell

I havent too thoroughly researched this but it I think it does stand to be looked at further if you are planning on pursuing a vegetarian diet or raising children vegetarian. I.e. are there amino acids, or something else, in meat that you cant find in other foods and that is important for brain function and development?

There are NO amino acids in meat that you cannot obtain from other sources. Most aminos we can make ourselves from molecules in our diet. There are a few we cannot ("essential" aminos), but all of these are present in plant foods.

And the beautiful thing about our body is that we can make any of the proteins we need, as long as we have the building blocks (the aminos). Where do you think a cow or horse gets what he needs to build all that muscle? Horses dont eat meat. Yet there are some human bodybuilders who are convinced they need to eat the cow's muscle to give them muscle. The truth is that when you eat animal or plant, those proteins are broken back down into basic amino acids during digestion. There is no mystery protein or magical power that meat possesses.

For every study the pro-meat people put together, I can find one that supports the theory veg'ns are as smart as or smarter than the meat-eating general public.
BBC NEWS | Health | High IQ link to being vegetarian
"A Southampton University team found those who were vegetarian by 30 had recorded five IQ points more on average at the age of 10. "

I can tell you personally I've been meat free for over half my life. Yet still somehow I manage top test scores and have been holding a 3.98 GPA. For entrance into my school's program last winter, I scored in the 99% percentile nationwide (meaning only 1% people did better). I am not trying to brag; I say this only to illustrate that nobody "needs" meat. I have vegan friends who are equally successful, both in their academic lives and in their careers. I know of vegans who even run marathons or who body build. The only thing a meat-eater does better than a vegan is statistically have higher rates of cardiovascular problems, stroke, and some kinds of cancer.

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by funchy

The only thing a meat-eater does better than a vegan is statistically have higher rates of cardiovascular problems, stroke, and some kinds of cancer.

Actually no. A standard american diet does this. If you look at cultures who eat meat, but don't eat the way most of the western world eats they have little to no heart disease, cancer, or any other degenerative diseases to speak of. Meat is not the culprit, man made crap is. Eat whole foods, and you will be healthy.

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by scorpio1980

Actually no. A standard american diet does this.

Indeed it does, but the standard American diet is based on meat. It is a combination of both a general unhealthy diet and a diet high in meat that causes the strokes and heart attacks. I can choose to include meat in my diet, and eat a diet of whole foods, and I probably won't have a stroke. I can choose to be a vegan, and include junk food in my diet, and I probably won't have a stroke. Seeing as how there is nothing I need in my diet that is only found in meat, and that there is nothing I need in my diet that I can only get from junkfood, I can choose to include neither. This is ideally where I want to be.

I'm okay with the way you eat meat, you've made a conscious decision and have done it as healthy as possible. As much as I sometimes might like to try, I'm not going to convince you otherwise. I'd much rather show people who eat meat in an unhealthy way how to be healthier, and if they want to try going vegetarian or vegan, that's good too.