The Vegetarian Myth!

[Bleicke]

Originally Posted by vMike

If there was an indisputable evidence that eating meat harms my health I could probably give up.

There is - in fact is has already been quoted and linked to in this thread. Eating animal products (like meat) is directly linked to heart disease, diabetes and cancer. Read "The China Study".

Originally Posted by vMike

What I'm saying is calling meat eaters killers is just wrong.

By definition a killer is someone who kills. To get meat on your table, an animal has to be killed. You pay someone who kills the animal for you and rips it to pieces.

I will repeat that:

You pay someone to kill for your food.

Originally Posted by vMike

I don't consider animals on the same level as us and so I don't see any reason why we should justify killing [..] them.

That's called racism. Try replacing the word "animals" with "blacks" or "jews".

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Ryan Bailey

Let me start by saying I completely support everyone having the right to choose what they eat and why they eat it - for I feel like I deserve the same respect from others.

My belief - is First off, we need to look at the evolution of man and food.

First off, vegetables are definitely a staple of our diets.
Shortly there after does come the meat – yes, meat of all shapes and sizes. We need to wake up.
But not the free-range, grass-fed beef from the local farmer that our bodies are designed to eat and thrive off of!

We need to put into perspective what is causing the major source of dis-ease in our country.

We had wild meats that we hunted as nomadic people. We had wild berries and nuts along with some veggies of the wild sort.
We did not farm and we did not have animals that we raised ourselves. This, my friends, is the root of all problems when it comes to food.

So to conclude, I do not agree 100% with a Vegan or Vegetarian diet.

Whether it be for personal or religious reasons, I do believe we need meat
Other resources on this subject www.pricepottenger.org, Weston A. Price Foundation.

You are most certainly entitled to your own opinions. The facts indicate:

Type A blood-type individuals: often get physically sick,
on more than a couple bites of sea-foods, poultry, & other animal-proteins, unless rationed to couple times weekly.

Type O blood-type individuals: often get physically sick,
unless they eat 1-2 ozs. of such animal proteins daily.

[ggwbach]

the issue of diet is a vexed one.

every body needs a different food intake which can be affected by:

1) age
2) gender
3) general health (liver issues, etc)
4) physical workload
5) climate
6) season
7) engrained habits

meat may or may not play a factor in all this.

just like too much raw food can hurt some people, too much meat can negatively impair others.

each to their own, and no prescriptions.

I've learnt this lesson the very hard way

[funchy]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

You are most certainly entitled to your own opinions. The facts indicate:

Type A blood-type individuals: often get physically sick,
on more than a couple bites of sea-foods, poultry, & other animal-proteins, unless rationed to couple times weekly.

Type O blood-type individuals: often get physically sick,
unless they eat 1-2 ozs. of such animal proteins daily.

I had not heard that before. Can you cite this source(s) of this information? Thank you.

[Raymond Burton]

ggwbach, way off topic but what an awesome and truly unique blog you have. Just awesome. Keep it up.

[liamona]

What a great thread! Nutrition is one of my passions, as I've turned my health around by following the the dietary information that researcher Weston A. Price wrote about in Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.

For most of my thirties, I had moderate hormonal problems that became severe (in addition to many other health issues) while trying to follow low-fat vegetarianism. What a mistake! I feel so much better now that I eat a lot of fat, especially saturated fat. I am so grateful that I found information that works for me, although it's tinged with a bit of regret because I wish I didn't have to eat dead animals to feel well. I assuage my guilt by finding the ones that were treated well: truly pastured animals. I've been fortunate to find a ranch that raises buffalo, and get eggs from small farms that I can visit to see the chickens' living conditions. One of these days I hope to raise some of my own chickens.

On the advice of a holistic practitioner, I tried the Blood Type Diet last year, which since my type is A meant that I had to eliminate most meat. I felt fine at first, but then about a month into it I started having the same issues I had in my thirties, so it's back to something closer to the Optimal Diet, popularized by Polish doctor Jan Kwasniewski.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by funchy

I had not heard that before.
Can you cite this source(s) of this information? Thank you.

You can google over 3000+ such sources; here's one -

Blood Type Diet
Michael Lam, MD, MPH, ABAAM is a specialist in Nutritional and Anti-Aging Medicine.
Dr. Lam received his Bachelor of Science degree from Oregon State University and his Doctor of Medicine degree from Loma Linda University School of Medicine, California. He also holds a Masters of Public Health degree, and is Board Certified by the American Board of Anti-aging Medicine. Dr. Lam is credited for being among the first to formulate the three clinical phases of aging, and is a pioneer in using non-toxic natural compounds to promote healing of many age related degenerative diseases. His clinical specialty focuses on the use of optimum blends of nutritional supplementation that manipulates food, vitamins, natural hormones, herbs, enzymes, and mineral into specific protocols to rejuvenate cellular function. He is a recognized expert in nutritional medicine, with over 50 published articles in natural medicine.
Author of three books - The Five Proven Secrets to Longevity, Beating Cancer with Natural Medicine and How to Stay Young and Live Longer.
He was a Board Examiner for the American Academy of Anti-aging Medicine.

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

You are most certainly entitled to your own opinions. The facts indicate:

Type A blood-type individuals: often get physically sick,
on more than a couple bites of sea-foods, poultry, & other animal-proteins, unless rationed to couple times weekly.

Type O blood-type individuals: often get physically sick,
unless they eat 1-2 ozs. of such animal proteins daily.

Very interesting. I'm an "O". I can't be vegetarian *even if I do it RIGHT*!

I feel sick, spacy, weird, et cetera unless I eat meat at the very least a few times a week, if not every day.

Contrary to a lot of people's experience I actually feel energy after eating *meat* not carbohydrates. I have a "wake up" after eating certain meats especially - I feel more energy after I eat BEEF! Beef and salmon are the most important animal foods in my diet, and I drink about a glass of milk a day.

Soy and substitutes don't cut it for me. I often feel ill/brainfoggy after eating them!

I'm all for people finding what works for them, and finding out what their morals do and don't allow them to do. What bothers me is how I see people falling into dietary orthodoxy and taking it in a package deal with personal development as if food is going to get them into heaven.

This was a struggle for me for a long time. I was in the trap of trying to follow the latest spiritual diet trend. This robbed me of my time and my power.

For that reason, I have a very deliberate ritual to deal with this issue.

The McDonalds Mass

Eat a McDonalds happy meal. Experience the power of the arches logo in the mass consciousness. Offer to Ronald McDonald. Request that the Hamburgler steal away ignorance. Laugh at the silliness of having a ritual around McDonalds.

The whole idea is to look at what's orthodox then deliberately break the thought patterns of orthodoxy.

and if you can figure out from this what spiritual road I travel and which way I am aligned (I joke that the road to truth is a traffic circle), then we'll have some fun.

Pyrogen

[liamona]

Originally Posted by pyrogen

I feel sick, spacy, weird, et cetera unless I eat meat at the very least a few times a week, if not every day.

Contrary to a lot of people's experience I actually feel energy after eating *meat* not carbohydrates. I have a "wake up" after eating certain meats especially - I feel more energy after I eat BEEF! Beef and salmon are the most important animal foods in my diet, and I drink about a glass of milk a day.

Yep, that's exactly how I feel, but as a type A (lol). I've discovered that my perfect breakfast is eggs and some kind of meat cooked in butter, with a cup of coffee (the only one I have) that has copious amounts of cream. Sometimes I can have oatmeal (properly soaked in an acidic medium like whey overnight), but only if I follow that with a lunch that is meat-based. And the oatmeal has to be drowning in butter, coconut oil and/or cream.

Soy and substitutes don't cut it for me. I often feel ill/brainfoggy after eating them!

I used to be addicted to fake soy meats and soy milk. I think it helped caused the hormonal mayhem I suffered.

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by liamona

Yep, that's exactly how I feel, but as a type A (lol). I've discovered that my perfect breakfast is eggs and some kind of meat cooked in butter, with a cup of coffee (the only one I have) that has copious amounts of cream. Sometimes I can have oatmeal (properly soaked in an acidic medium like whey overnight), but only if I follow that with a lunch that is meat-based. And the oatmeal has to be drowning in butter, coconut oil and/or cream.

I used to be addicted to fake soy meats and soy milk. I think it helped caused the hormonal mayhem I suffered.

You sound like someone who'd do well on low-carb or paleo. I was very successful on low-carb. The reason I don't do it NOW is because now I'm too physically active and need carbs. I function best on paleo (you can do paleo then do your non-meat foods aligned with raw diet, raw totally fits with paleo).

[Bleicke]

Originally Posted by liamona

I used to be addicted to fake soy meats and soy milk. I think it helped caused the hormonal mayhem I suffered.

Eating lots of refined soy products is not necessarily healthy. There's plenty of "real" food out there. Eat beans, lentils (hmmm!) and lots of vegetables.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by pyrogen

You sound like someone who'd do well on low-carb or paleo. I was very successful on low-carb. The reason I don't do it NOW is because now I'm too physically active and need carbs. I function best on paleo (you can do paleo then do your non-meat foods aligned with raw diet, raw totally fits with paleo).

I do extremely well on low-carb, but only as long as I also eat high-fat. The main problem is that my family is not low-carb in any way. It's hard for me to resist grains! *sigh*

[liamona]

Originally Posted by Bleicke

Eating lots of refined soy products is not necessarily healthy.

You can say that again! But they were all the rage in the 90s, although now people are wising up.

There's plenty of "real" food out there. Eat beans, lentils (hmmm!) and lots of vegetables.

I love beans, but they don't agree with me. The same with grains.

Veggies, however are wonderful!

[Joeschmoe]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

You are most certainly entitled to your own opinions. The facts indicate:

Type A blood-type individuals: often get physically sick,
on more than a couple bites of sea-foods, poultry, & other animal-proteins, unless rationed to couple times weekly.

Type O blood-type individuals: often get physically sick,
unless they eat 1-2 ozs. of such animal proteins daily.

Sorry this is just wrong. The Blood Type diet is just another fad diet. There is no scientific evidence to support that the ABO system has anything to do with food. All of these blood types developed long before humans, when all great apes were primarily plant eaters. It amazes me that people still but into this stuff.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Joeschmoe

Sorry this is just wrong.

All of these blood types developed long before humans,
when all great apes were primarily plant eaters.

It amazes me that people still but into this stuff.

You think that is wrong? - think again!

The (ape-to-human evolution) religion is a poor theory,
leaving way more questions???, than it can answer.

Be enlightened : "Billions of missing links" by Geoffrey Simmons M.D.

[painofsalvation]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

You are most certainly entitled to your own opinions. The facts indicate:

Type A blood-type individuals: often get physically sick,
on more than a couple bites of sea-foods, poultry, & other animal-proteins, unless rationed to couple times weekly.

Type O blood-type individuals: often get physically sick,
unless they eat 1-2 ozs. of such animal proteins daily.

That's funny. I have type O blood and it's been 3 years since I last ate animal protein. It's also been 3 years without any sort of cold, flu, fever or headache. I guess I should be dead now. Or maybe the effects of APD (animal protein deficiency) start to kick in only when we're over 100 years old.

[pyrogen]

How about we stop assuming one size fits all, and take people's word for it on what works for them.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by pyrogen

How about we stop assuming one size fits all, and take people's word for it on what works for them.

Are you talking about the Blood Type Diet? Although it didn't work for me, it does work well for a dear friend of mine.

[Joeschmoe]

I don't assume one size fits all. People are free to do what they want and believe what they want. There is still no evidence that blood types have anything to do with food. Blood type diets are bunk even though the diet itself might work for someone.

Also humans are apes.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

You are most certainly entitled to your own opinions. The facts indicate:

Type A blood-type individuals: often get physically sick,
on more than a couple bites of sea-foods, poultry, & other animal-proteins, unless rationed to couple times weekly.

Type O blood-type individuals: often get physically sick,
unless they eat 1-2 ozs. of such animal proteins daily.

Forgive me for sounding skeptical, but it doesn't make sense.

I googled it, and over 40% of Americans are Blood Type A.

Vegetarians make up <10% of the US population and vegans <1%. The rest of the US eats massive amounts of animal protein, more than most other countries in the world.

So if Type A people get very sick from more than an ounce or two of meat, why aren't there more vegans?

[Keith]

Originally Posted by vMike

Humans are definitely superior and the animals are nowhere as evolved as humans.
Animals act mostly based on instincts, they aren't capable of sentient thoughts, imagination, of self-conscience.

Human intelligence has been around for about 2 million years - an evolutionary blip. Let's give it a bit more time before crowing how 'superior' it is.

So far there are signs that it just results in a species self-destructing in a big way.

P.S. Do a little bit of reading on evolution. It's not a ladder, it's a branching tree. Humans are not 'more evolved' than other branches of the tree - just differently evolved.

Originally Posted by liamona

Are you talking about the Blood Type Diet? Although it didn't work for me, it does work well for a dear friend of mine.

I think that's the point. If the blood type diet 'works for some people and not others' then what you've proven is that there's individual variation but that it probably isn't related to blood type.

[vMike]

Originally Posted by Keith

Human intelligence has been around for about 2 million years - an evolutionary blip. Let's give it a bit more time before crowing how 'superior' it is.

So far there are signs that it just results in a species self-destructing in a big way.

P.S. Do a little bit of reading on evolution. It's not a ladder, it's a branching tree. Humans are not 'more evolved' than other branches of the tree - just differently evolved.

Evolution, by its definition, is about survival and adaptation, so think again and tell me where exactly you see "self-destructing" on a global scale.

[Victor Vikingr]

Originally Posted by vMike

Evolution, by its definition, is about survival and adaptation, so think again and tell me where exactly you see "self-destructing" on a global scale.

Does global warming count?

[Bleicke]

Originally Posted by vMike

Evolution, by its definition, is about survival and adaptation, so think again and tell me where exactly you see "self-destructing" on a global scale.

We're long beyond the scope of biological evolution. Today "survival" is not so much related to our biology, which is pretty much the same in every human, it's about social evolution, political evolution, etc.

By the way, evolutions way of determining who "survives" is just brute force. Dinosaurs were pretty awesome, then KABOOM. All gone. Sometimes it's just bad luck. So preventing humans from destroying each other or the earth has not much to do with biological evolution.

[alexplatups]

Hello

First of all let me say that this is an amazing thread

it is the first one I read...since i just registered I will not write some....bs...and will say this

every person has a nutrient ratio that makes him feel the best and makes his organism work efficiently

this is why every person has to choose for himself...what he eats, when he eats it....what exercise he does...when he does it.....cardio...weight training...etc...etc...etc

but at the end of the day...it is all about truth, reality, and using a 100% honest approach...and figuring out your unique combination of food that *works* for you

This is a skill and an art that has to be learned and sharpened....one meal at a time

what is the end result that you want......is it a healthy, lean body with 8% body fat, is it vitality, do you want to look like someone that you admire...or is it something else?

because if you really want something *bad enough*...you will find a way to bring it into reality...in fact you can do it without using information from experts...just simply by doing something and then tracking your results....learning from your mistakes...being completely honest with yourself and never giving up

those things that are really important to us we do on a daily basis....even if we just *think* they are important...still....we do them....watch TV, eat junk food before going to sleep, etc...etc...etc

so I think this is where it all starts...with figuring out...what is *really* important to you...this is not as easy as it sounds...and because of this I believe that many people ignore this step

and the reason....all back to reality (and + laziness of course)...because if you admit to yourself that it is important for you to have a healthy, lean body....no more pigging out at midnight...and going to sleep

instead....wake up 5am...go walk for 45 minutes....then eat small frequent meals during the day (made up of high-quality food...that is not as deliscious as three Big Macs and three X-large fries with a large Vanilla milshake)...and in the evening hit the gym...for another 45 minutes

it is simply a lot more comfortable to lie to yourself...and think that *resting* after work is what is really important...then you can simply come home...pig out until you are ready to explode...and *forget* about everything around you

later

Alex Platups

[vMike]

Originally Posted by Bleicke

By the way, evolutions way of determining who "survives" is just brute force. Dinosaurs were pretty awesome, then KABOOM. All gone. Sometimes it's just bad luck. So preventing humans from destroying each other or the earth has not much to do with biological evolution.

it's not bad luck, it's evolution - the fittest survive (not the strongest), dinosaurs couldn't fit to the quickly changing environment, mammals did.

Global warming is a problem, however it's highly overrated and mostly caused by natural events, we do contribute some to speed the process though, but we'll definitely find a way to deal with it to minimize the damage, so no worries.. don't believe everything people who seek popularity say on tv, it's not gonna be the end of the world

[Keith]

Originally Posted by vMike

Evolution, by its definition, is about survival and adaptation, so think again and tell me where exactly you see "self-destructing" on a global scale.

So far intelligence has resulted in:
* massive pollution of the air and the oceans
* massive overpopulation
* extinction or endangerment of much of the biosphere that we rely on for survival.
* ongoing degradation of previously fertile soils
* invention of atomic weapons in quantities that could eradicate humanity, and many other species besides
* not yet for biological weapons, but give it time
* global warming doesn't help, even if your unusually optimistic interpretation is correct

It's far from decisive, but it's also far too early to applaud intelligence as one of nature's more successful experiments.

Originally Posted by vMike

it's not bad luck, it's evolution - the fittest survive (not the strongest), dinosaurs couldn't fit to the quickly changing environment, mammals did.

Yeh, that word 'fittest' is confusing - it brings to mind "bigger, tougher, stronger" when really it means the "best fit" to the environment.

Bleicke has a point though. A random event of sufficient magnitude can stop evolution dead in its tracks. It's a slow process best suited to gradual change.

[lifetimelearner]

there is nothing wrong with a little intelligence
BUT
it has to take a back seat to COMPASSION

if we were all more compassionate towards our fellow man and our environment (including animals) our world would be a better place

[mulbrich]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

there is nothing wrong with a little intelligence
BUT
it has to take a back seat to COMPASSION

It is true that compassion is important, but doesn't one have to be intelligent to be truly compassionate?

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by mulbrich

It is true that compassion is important, but doesn't one have to be intelligent to be truly compassionate?

No but this is just my opinion

I know you can be compassionate and not be the most intelligent person
I have worked with individuals that would be considered Mentally slow which some people call mentally retarded
but they were the most compassionate ,kind people you will ever meet


I am not DOWNPLAYING intelligence at all people !