Minimizing sleep

[toasterwater]

I regard sleep as a waste of time. I hate sleeping, especially if i sleep excessive amounts. For instance, today i woke up at 730, which was fine- i went to sleep around midnight the night before, so i was happy with 7.5 hours of sleep. However, I became tired as the day progressed (probably due to the sedentary nature of reading and conducting business online), and around 1pm i laid down on my bed and fell asleep. I slept for about 3.5 hours. This is 3.5 hours of potentially productive time that i cannot get back. The plans that i had for the day arent completely lost, but nontheless, this was a complete waste of time. I have undergone several lifestyle changes lately to try to minimize my sleeping habits. I became a vegetarian about 6 weeks ago with the hopes that it would increase my energy levels throughout the day and prevent those most despised "afternoon naps". Along with this I changed my sleeping schedule. I now wake up at 4am every weekday (work doesnt start until 5:45am or 7am) and i tend to go to sleep between 9pm and 11pm following the when-im-tired rule. I cannot follow this schedule on the weekends, however. I have to be awake between 11:30pm and midnight on Friday and Saturday nights. Because of this I have chosen to adapt my weekend schedule to go to sleep after midnight, and wake up around 730am. I currently excersize 3 times a week.
It seems that with a healthy, vegetarian diet; a refined sleep schedule; and a decent physical exercise regimen, i should be able to snub this little sleeping problem. Unfortunately, i still find myself becoming fatigued during sedentary activities (reading, online activities, etc.) and every once in a while I lose the battle and take a nap.
I am willing to try any reasonable suggestion if it leads to the correction of this problem. Sleep is the enemy- today i lost a battle, but the war is far from over...

[andrew]

As much as I feel as if sleep is a wasit of time that you can be doing more productive things, I love it. Sleeping I find wonderful and if you wake me up, watch out. But still, I hate when I sleep like 11 hours because I stayed up so late. I agree totaly.

But sleep is very important, and your body needs it. I would recommend getting the most out of your sleeps. I posted a thread about pzizz, software that helps you nap and sleep. Try it out, maybe it can make your sleeps more productive, requiring you to sleep less. Napping for 20 minutes is really great too. Also maybe invest in a better bed. This is something I need to do myself, one of those sweedish foam with magnets and stuff. I figure you spend 1/3 of your day sleeping, might as well do it right.

-andrew

[Matt]

Next time you feel tired in the middle of the day, set an alarm to wake you up in 15-20 minutes after you lie down. Short naps will make you feel more alert and refreshed. Longer naps (for me) don't seem to work as well and if they aren't timed right I will actually feel lethargic afterwards.

Another approach would be to vary your schedule so you aren't sedentary for long periods of time. Get some quick chores done, catch up on some phone calls, talk to your significant other, go for a walk, etc.

[micth]

try bi-phasic sleep schedule
a popular one i found was sleeping 4.5 hours in the night, then 1.5 hours in the afternoon. apparently this is good because it fits in with your 90 minute 'caridian cylce' (sp?) or whatever it's called, which makes you wake up feeling more refreshed. Personally i haven't tried it, but give it a go.. i mean, what's the worst that can happen? It would probably fit in with your schedule well, as you'd be able to go to sleep at midnight and get up at 4.30am

Also, I was thinking of becoming vegetarian aswell, one of the reasons being that apparently you need less sleep. There's alot of stuff flying round, some saying vegetarians have low energy levels, some saying the need less sleep, etc. Has anyone actually felt any effects such as they after they became a vegetarian?

[kljsadfhklj]

Originally Posted by micth

Has anyone actually felt any effects such as they after they became a vegetarian?

Nothing big, except that I don't feel sleepy after eating a lot anymore.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by kljsadfhklj

Nothing big, except that I don't feel sleepy after eating a lot anymore.

From what I understand, the "food coma" effect happens when there's a spike in your insulin response (because of too much simple carbohydrates). The blood sugar levels go way up, then come crashing down.

Did you cut out a lot of simple carbs?

[kljsadfhklj]

Originally Posted by Henry

Did you cut out a lot of simple carbs?

I'm not sure, but I did cut that biology class where they tell me what foods have carbs and what foods haven't. Haha. So, maybe I did, I don't know, I just eat anything I feel like eating.

Edit: But the sleepyness thing is from eating meat. I've eaten meat like two or three times since I went vegetarian and I was sleepy after eating all those times.

[nikewong]

i love dreaming, dreams just give me lots of ideas

[thef0x]

Originally Posted by nikewong

i love dreaming, dreams just give me lots of ideas

Haha, right on.

To address the sleeping and eating thing, I noticed I fall asleep much quicker when I quit caffeine and when I'm not digesting huge pieces of dead animals in my stomach. I try to eat only complex carbs which provide a ton of energy for me throughout the day. Quiting meat helps for the 2 hours after you eat a meal, where upon I now have the most energy instead of having the least. Quit the dairy also.

I do love a good 20 minute power nap. Seriously I highly recommend it.

I also listen to NLP tapes when falling asleep as the relaxation techniques always loosen me up.

[Guinevere]

I second Matt's suggestion of setting an alarm clock for 20 min.
When I feel an afternoon need to rest I either lie on the floor with my feet up visualizing a nice, natural place like a beach, or I listen to an hypnosis CD or something to make that time more productive.

I've also read a 10 minute brisk walk can make us feel more alert, but I can't say I tried that option.

[elimisteve]

I sleep 6.5 hours per night regularly and I really, really like it. As long as I'm motivated (I work on something I REALLY enjoy working on every night and morning) and have specific goals for the next day (which I write on a Post-It note the night before), it's not at all a problem. I also find that the later I stay up, the longer my brain has to recover for. In other words, go to sleep early (before 11pm, 11:30 max) and you may find that you function perfectly well on less sleep.

By the way, I've tried the Uberman/polyphasic sleep schedule, and while it was really, really interesting (I had lucid dreams for the first time), I found it to be too unstable. It's probably worth trying one summer if you're really curious, but it's probably unhealthy for your brain if you're too young (under 18 especially).

[toasterwater]

I find it interesting that so many of you seem to be advocates of the 20 minute nap thing. I have always heard that because you dont reach your REM sleep until after (what like 90 minutes?) it is almost pointless to take a short nap. However, after hearing all of you promoting it, i will have to try it... i will have to use extreme caution though, because i can be a very, VERY deep sleeper, and in my field of work, that can equal disaster. Ill just have to try it with really loud alarms.

[David Hausladen]

micth: Don't know what the scientific name for it is, I've always heard it just called the sleep cycle. Basically, in normal sleep your body cycles through Stages 1-4 sleep and then REM sleep, and on average that whole cycle takes 90 minutes. Since Stages 1-2 and REM sleep are not as deep, setting your sleep schedule up with those 90-minute intervals in mind is supposed to give you much greater energy for the time invested. I can't report any results personally from when I've tried the 90-minute interval method, but I've read on several blogs reports of people having had success with it.

toasterwater: Yeah, in most circumstances any nap under 45 minutes will not get into deep Stage 3 or 4 sleep, so while it can be refreshing in the short term, it's not enough to affect the amount of deep sleep you need at night; nor is it likely to "trap" you in a deep sleep that you feel tired waking up from. (The exception is that polyphasic sleepers, from what I've read, reach deep sleep much more quickly and visit different stages in different naps so to get the right amount of each. This explains why polyphasics can get by with just short naps.)

[Trustme]

Originally Posted by David Hausladen

micth: Yeah, in most circumstances any nap under 45 minutes will not get into deep Stage 3 or 4 sleep, so while it can be refreshing in the short term, it's not enough to affect the amount of deep sleep you need at night; nor is it likely to "trap" you in a deep sleep that you feel tired waking up from. (The exception is that polyphasic sleepers, from what I've read, reach deep sleep much more quickly and visit different stages in different naps so to get the right amount of each. This explains why polyphasics can get by with just short naps.)

I seriously reduced my sleep time in the night by taking an evening nap. What additionally comes into play here is that you condition your body to get naturally tired in the evening (for me around 7 pm) and you actually fall asleep. If you are not acustomed to napping at this time you might end up trying to fall asleep for 30 minutes but not get any. I think that even a 30 minute nap affects my total sleep time.

V.

[elai]

The reason why you tend to fall asleep near noon is your sedentary work (like me).

Whenever I'm in front of the computer feeling like I want to fall asleep too early, what I do is go here:

Digitally Imported Internet Radio

choose the hardcore music channel (the really pump-you-up dance music, it's almost always never obscene, have drug references or anything really offensive, it's just really hyper.)

And just dance around however I feel like it. I don't dance around like I'm exercising, trying to push myself to exhaustion. I just do it to pump up the blood and have some fun. A few minutes of that and all of a sudden I'm alert and ready to go.

Get some exercise! Use something like crossfit (google it)

[Gautam]

Originally Posted by micth

try bi-phasic sleep schedule
a popular one i found was sleeping 4.5 hours in the night, then 1.5 hours in the afternoon. apparently this is good because it fits in with your 90 minute 'caridian cylce' (sp?) or whatever it's called, which makes you wake up feeling more refreshed. Personally i haven't tried it, but give it a go.. i mean, what's the worst that can happen? It would probably fit in with your schedule well, as you'd be able to go to sleep at midnight and get up at 4.30am

Also, I was thinking of becoming vegetarian aswell, one of the reasons being that apparently you need less sleep. There's alot of stuff flying round, some saying vegetarians have low energy levels, some saying the need less sleep, etc. Has anyone actually felt any effects such as they after they became a vegetarian?

I did experience a LOT of changes after I've turned to a Dietary Vegan. Some of them are:
-Increased Alertness
-Declination of fatigue
-increased immunity to common cold/ headaches etc.
-loss of fat (without much change in weight)
and finally a overall calm mind and less of agression.

I've turned non-lacto, non-ovo vegetarian over 6 months ago and by far this is the best decision of my life!

[Saidin]

This bipahsic sleep probably needs some getting used to. However, what I'd like to know is whether you can easily switch between 'normal' sleep (I normally sleep 6.5 hours at the moment, but I can't read a book in the evening without falling asleep), and biphasic sleep.

My daily schedule allows me to take a nap after work (around 18:30 to 20:00), and then sleep from midnight until 4:30. However, sometimes I will have a meeting, party or whatever after work. So it would be convenient to mix the biphasic sleep with 'normal' sleep. Does anybody have experience with or knowledge about this?

[Trustme]

Originally Posted by Saidin

My daily schedule allows me to take a nap after work (around 18:30 to 20:00), and then sleep from midnight until 4:30. However, sometimes I will have a meeting, party or whatever after work. So it would be convenient to mix the biphasic sleep with 'normal' sleep. Does anybody have experience with or knowledge about this?

I am on more or less the exact same schedule. My nap is not solid 90 minutes yet so I am planning to reduce my core sleep until it spans 90 minutes.

Mixing monophasic and biphasic does not work for me. I get naturally tired in the evening up to a point where it feels like I have to sleep. When I face situations like you describe I try to get at least a 30 minutes nap or to sleep earlier. This works pretty well for me.

[placebo]

I have a morning routine that includes coffee, few cigarets, chacking mail and stuff. Problem is that i always wake up kind of slowed down. (Don't tell me it is becuse of smoking. It was the same when i wasn't smoking)

I know it is normal that body needs some time to warm up but sometimes it takes too much time. How do you deal with that?

[Strangemagik]

Originally Posted by toasterwater

I find it interesting that so many of you seem to be advocates of the 20 minute nap thing. I have always heard that because you dont reach your REM sleep until after (what like 90 minutes?) it is almost pointless to take a short nap. However, after hearing all of you promoting it, i will have to try it... i will have to use extreme caution though, because i can be a very, VERY deep sleeper, and in my field of work, that can equal disaster. Ill just have to try it with really loud alarms.

I don't believe that REM until 90 minutes stuff. I know they taught that in my psychology class too but I have slept for 15 minutes and DID have dreams which don't those only happen after you reach REM??


I think if you are tired then you probably aren't getting enough at night. Just my opinion though. I agree try to take a shorter nap I have heard that no more than 20 minutes for naps or you will feel worse than before.

Editing to add that I feel sleep is a waste of time too. I used to thrive off only 7 hours but now even 8 doesn't seem to be enough. Of course I haven't had even 7 on consistant basis lately. And sometimes what seems the most waste is that I take up to 3 hours sometimes to fall asleep(no lie) and it drives me nuts the things I could get done in that time if I'm not sleeping anyway.

[tropicality]

The reasons you can't fall asleep for that long are either of or both of the following:

1) You simply aren't tired enough and need to adjust your sleep schedule

2) You continue to conciously use your mind while laying in bed, I used to do this and it could keep me awake for hours until I became aware of it and prevented it. One way to prevent it is to focus in on one thing and block all others out, almost like meditating, bring yourself to the present (this is what 'Dream Play' does). One way to do this is to focus on 3 objects in the room around you, then focus in on 3 objects on your body, and then 3 objects within your body. And not allow your concious mind to drift into thinking about random thoughts.


With my Photoreading course I got the "Dream Play" paraliminal CD and using it, I am asleep in 20 minutes or less. Normally sometimes it takes 1-3 hours. But not once has it exceeded 20 minutes with the Dream Play cd.. which also promotes lucid dreaming!

[Strangemagik]

Originally Posted by tropicality

The reasons you can't fall asleep for that long are either of or both of the following:

1) You simply aren't tired enough and need to adjust your sleep schedule

2) You continue to conciously use your mind while laying in bed, I used to do this and it could keep me awake for hours until I became aware of it and prevented it. One way to prevent it is to focus in on one thing and block all others out, almost like meditating, bring yourself to the present (this is what 'Dream Play' does). One way to do this is to focus on 3 objects in the room around you, then focus in on 3 objects on your body, and then 3 objects within your body. And not allow your concious mind to drift into thinking about random thoughts.


With my Photoreading course I got the "Dream Play" paraliminal CD and using it, I am asleep in 20 minutes or less. Normally sometimes it takes 1-3 hours. But not once has it exceeded 20 minutes with the Dream Play cd.. which also promotes lucid dreaming!

I think its more #2 most of the time. I'm at a hard point in life and have had a really hard time with sleeping last few weeks. Last night I managed to fall asleep within 20 minutes. My mind likes to fly at night. I'll try those tips. I keep thinking I need to start meditating or concentrating my thinking to one or two things instead of jumping around. I'm always on random thoughts, so many people will just look at me like "huh?" sometimes and I realize I have moved on 2-3 subjects in my head since what we talked about with in a few short seconds. LOL

[Keith]

I was just watching a story about sleep deprivation on a science show called "Catalyst". One of the things they said in this story is that extensive studies into sleep deprivation has shown that around 15% of people can get by on (what would be for anybody else) insufficient sleep.

Apparently brain scans show that a different part of their brain kicks in when deprived of sleep and functionality tests (memory etc.) show minimal deterioration.

Interesting stuff, and could explain why some people naturally take to a polyphasic or light sleep schedule (I'm looking at you, Steve!) while others don't...

[Andrew Brunelle]

If you want to minimize your sleep time, you may have to take a nap midday. I wrote a post about this in my blog, and the article is as follows: A Midday Nap. Check it out. Maybe it will help you. It certainly has helped me. Just a small 15-20 minute nap around 4-5 PM to give you that extra boost to last until 10 or 11 or whenever you call bedtime. I enjoy it thoroughly. Peace...