soy vs meat - pros and cons?

[Ralph]

Which one is healthier? What are the pros and cons?

I feel lighter, more energetic and clear-headed when I replaced meat with soy substitutes so I'd like to do it long-term.

However, I would love to hear your opinion about pros and cons of both soy and meat. What would be the downside of replacing meat with soy? Any side effects to be expected?

Thanks a lot for your guidance
Ralph

[Akashic_Librarian]

I tend to eat a combined diet of both Meat and Soya products (I prefer Quorn to soya though) I have the same results you do, clear headedness, and clarity of thought, plus more energy, less bloatedness, better sleep etc...

However you just can't beat meat for flavour and texture!

When they invent a soya-Donner I will be happy.

[Byron]

Generally, if you're replacing meat with protein substitute, it would be best to choose a non-estrogenic source, like rice protein, or any vegetable protein.

If you're replacing it for prepared meals, substituting vegetables is ideal.

Soy itself is not a suitable human food (has estrogenic properties that are meant to ward of pests, and are emasculating for males of species)


@Akashic: surprised that you say you are a vegetarian. How, as a darkworker, do you get your daily supply of blood? For what reasons, of animal suffering, lucidity of thinking, moral, or environmental could these be?

[Cran]

Byron, you ARE aware what important role estrogen takes especially for women?
Soy is, for example, associated with a lessended risk for breat-cancer in women, but this seems to be hardly the issue here. But there are studies that might indicate that it lessens the risk for coronary illness, but this might not be due to soy, but in general to the asiatic diet.

The negative sides for substituting soy are in my opinion (I do it myself, as I am vegan):
- no B12 in it
- heavily processed food
- do not taste as well as the real thing
- more expensive

But for me, the benefits are greater:
- increased clarity and well-being
- a BETTER spurce of protein than meat
- lots of phyto-estrogen
- other minerals, vitamins and even some essential fatty acids

[lifeforce]

I don't want to tell anyone that they are wrong. You see its about truth and everyone has a different perspective.

So... Those rats they tested soys estrogenic qualities on... If it was a human, you would have to eat close to 600 grams of pure soy protein to get this estrogenic effect everyones raving about.

[JSB]

Healthwise, meat is fine (as part of a balanced diet) if it is organic and the animals eat a natural diet (no animal feed, corn, grain, etc.)

Ethically, it's a decision you'll have to make for yourself.

Eating local wild game or locally raised grass-fed beef causes less environmental damage and fewer animal deaths than eating soy (when you take into account land cleared, petrochem fertilizers, small animal killed in harvesting, transporting the product hundreds or thousands of miles, factory processing, etc.). However, most people don't have the opportunity to hunt and live off wild game, and most people don't have small-scale organic free-range cattle or sheep ranches nearby.

Originally Posted by Ralph

Which one is healthier? What are the pros and cons?

I feel lighter, more energetic and clear-headed when I replaced meat with soy substitutes so I'd like to do it long-term.

However, I would love to hear your opinion about pros and cons of both soy and meat. What would be the downside of replacing meat with soy? Any side effects to be expected?

Thanks a lot for your guidance
Ralph

[funchy]

Originally Posted by Ralph

I feel lighter, more energetic and clear-headed when I replaced meat with soy substitutes so I'd like to do it long-term.

However, I would love to hear your opinion about pros and cons of both soy and meat. What would be the downside of replacing meat with soy? Any side effects to be expected?

I'd argue that soy and other vegetable protein sources are healthier than meat. You won't have problems with cholesterol, saturated fats, meat contaminants, and the other health issues tied to meat. One of the biggest killers is heart disease, and one of the big risk factors is a high-meat diet. There's also a huge problem with antibiotics in meat (google 'antibiotics meat'). You might be able to offset some of this by sticking with free-range poultry or grass-fed beef, all organically produced.

Some people cite studies that soy is bad due to phytoestrogens. However the studies aren't conclusive. You'd need to eat a massive amount of soy, and IMO it hasn't been studied well enough to really understand what phytoestrogens do in the human body. It's far better than all the hormones put in meat; we definitely know growth hormones and steroids aren't good for people.

I've gone without meat for about 15 yrs now. I do admittedly eat some eggs and cheese. I enjoy soy and other vegetable protein products. There are a wide range of non-meat protein products on the market.

And don't forget: if you eat more like the raw-vegan diet, you will me consuming more pounds of food to get the same number of calories. This translates to mean that even if the item has a low grams-protein/serving, you'll be eating more servings, and therefore getting protein in supposedly "lower protein" foods.

[pyrogen]

I have ADHD and frequent issues with brain fog. I'm going to be the odd person out and say that I don't think there's a one-person-fits-all diet.

I've felt the most clear-headed, functional, and heck, even closer to the earth when I manage to eat a diet that resembles that of our pre-agricultural ancestors... meat and fish, veggies, nuts, and fruits. There's still the awareness of what goes into my mouth, which I think is the point when people go on a particular diet for spiritual reasons.

I made this discovery during two years when I was on the Atkins diet. I modified the diet for myself, getting most of the fat from fatty fish, olive oil, avocados, and nuts, and I ate a lot more vegetables in much greater variety than I've managed to, before or since. Of course, this way of eating included a lot of Omega-3 so maybe that's why I felt so good.

I may actually have issues with gluten, though. Who knows which is the issue, gluten or carbs? I know that after I eat a bowl of pasta, I'm stupid. I feel spacy and confused. My ability to focus is directly related to what I ate. If it's tuna salad with avocado, or salad topped with chicken, I'm good. If it's a sandwich, I'm an idiot.

I used to be a vegetarian and struggled for a long time with feelings of being light-headed (not in the GOOD way), spacy, foggy. I struggled with this, because was under some conception that being a vegetarian made me more spiritual.

I've had lifelong metabolic issues, and I just can't get enough protein from non-animal sources, without carbs attached, to keep my blood sugar from pingponging all over the place.

I just wanted to voice a dissenting opinion. I don't think being a vegetarian makes you more "spiritual", one way or the other.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by Cran

The negative sides for substituting soy are in my opinion (I do it myself, as I am vegan):
- no B12 in it
- heavily processed food
- do not taste as well as the real thing
- more expensive

Can I politely disagree?

Soy doesn't have to be heavily processed. Look for edamame or "green soy beans", available in your fresh veg section, freezer section, and most Chinese restaurants. And there are other unprocessed non-meat sources that have good amounts of protein. Those who stop eating meat aren't stuck with only soy to choose from.

I disagree on taste. I never cared much for the taste of most red meats (greasy or gristly), fish is often too "fishy" tasting, and seafood such as mussels were rubbery livers-of-the-sea. Yuck. lol

Soy is cheaper than meat. Some grocery stores that sell very little soy products really mark it up high because they see it as a specialty item. Shop around. You can also buy bulk tofu at co-ops/natural food stores. It only gets costly when you buy the pre-prepared dinner items such as Boca or Worthington Foods; however, comparing apples to apples it's on par with pre-made, separate frozen burger patties.

You're right on the b12 not present in soybeans; however, the needs for b12 are pretty low. Also, your body can store b12 long term. You can easily get it through sources such as fortified soy milk, nutritional yeast, or a vitamin.

[Cran]

Funchy, try living in my area
Germany is a bit, ah underdeveloped (not in the big cities, but I do not live in Berlin) concerning such things as exotic food. Green soy beans - no no.

And taste is of course, taste, but I do miss the "real" thing and I am very disappointed when they claim "tastes like xy" and it doesn't. Many times, the only thing that resembles the original is the form. Tofu sausages, for example. But maybe I am living in the wrong country again. I have only two brands of tofu products available, all others must be ordered via internet.


Same goes for prices. Organic meat is as expensive as soy products, but normal meat is cheaper here, because we do not have the market for it, it only sells in very small quantities.

And I do not take supplements, I have no intention on putting fortified or otherwise additional stuff into my body - I eat sauerkraut, we will see how it turns out in 20 years...