Alcohol - What's your stand?

[The Probabilist]

I've noticed that Steve hasn't addressed his stand on alcohol very significantly through his blog posts and this goes for forum entries by various users as well. So even though it is a very significant part of today's society, maybe we could get a thread going on each person's standpoint on the issue when it comes to weighing pros and cons.

On my blog I posted an entry of new years habits and one of them is entirely removing alcohol from my consumption. To this point in time I've been consuming alcohol once or twice per month and I'd have to say that I enjoy the time out. But my liver doesn't share the same perspective.

Those who are familiar with MBTI and the science of Carl Jung are aware of the concept that alcohol (and stress) brings out the least dominant, 4th function of our personality traits. For instance, I'm a very introverted and intuitive person and once I consume alcohol I become extremely talkative and sensory. As a result, the next day I spend most of the time alone to recuperate from the overload of behaving against my dominant functioning.

Then there are the negative sides of alcohol that we're all aware of. Perhaps you could all share some of the experiences you've encountered that happened due to the influence of alcohol. Are there actually any really lasting and powerful positive results that have happened or are there only really powerful negative sides to it, like accidents and damaged relationships?

[Cathy]

My stand is, it depends....

For me, with lots of family history of alcoholism, I've ranged from a complete alcohol abstainer to an occasional (few times a month) glass of wine drinker. There is substantial evidence that moderate alcohol consumption, especially red wine, can have overall positive health effects (vs. non drinkers). Obviously if you can't stop at just one, having none is likely better overall.

For me, wine consumption triggers migraines about 50% of the time. So, for me to enjoy a glass, the wine must be of very high quality & savored. Otherwise, why bother?

Also, alcohol generally impairs my fitness training so I tend to be pretty cautious with it overall. Your body won't metabolism fat until the alcohol is cleared so it is especially bad for dieters.

Also, I'm a firm & vehement "do not drink and drive" person. Get a designated driver (often me) or drink at home or close to home so you can walk if need be. It's one thing to take risks with your own body but once you get in a vehicle (alone or with friends & family) the risk is far to great.

Anyway, all that being said. I like wine. I adore fine wine. I drink it occassionally, with great enjoyment, generally at home. Ah...

Have a safe holiday all. And Don't drink & drive.

[stephencp]

I would say that I drink wine and/or beer probably once or twice a month, typcially so as not be anti-social or make a big deal about turning it down. Alcohol has no redeeming qualities that I can think of and should be treated just like any other drug (which, leaning libertarian I am opposed to regulating.)
Occasional alcohol consumption should be thought of as just as good or bad as occasional marijuana (which probably has a greater claim to beneficial uses...)

Stephen
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[Jill]

Alcohol - What's your stand?

I like it. Pretty much every day.

[tc33]

Originally Posted by The Probabilist

Then there are the negative sides of alcohol that we're all aware of. Perhaps you could all share some of the experiences you've encountered that happened due to the influence of alcohol. Are there actually any really lasting and powerful positive results that have happened or are there only really powerful negative sides to it, like accidents and damaged relationships?

Good question. I was down in New Orleans a few weeks ago with some friends and we were all having a great time thanks to one, maybe two (or 10...ok I lost count) alcoholic beverages. I distinctly remember thinking to myself how interesting it is that we allow our personal "walls" to come down when we get drunk. As I've heard said, "alcohol is the window into the soul." With these "walls" effectively removed, it seems to be much easier for two people to connect at a potentially much deeper level as compared to sober moments. Moreover, any positive experience that is shared by two or more people generally results in an emotional bond. Add alcohol to the mix and you have a synergistic combination. In sum, my theory is that drunkenness and shared fun can result in enhanced interpersonal relationships.

Thoughts?

Tom

[skydust]

i think we all are aware of both the pros and cons of alcohol. we also know that both events that can be perceived as positive and negative have occurred as a result from it. in moderation, i think more 'positive' experiences occur than negative ones, but the body would probably disagree. i say each to their own.

[Adam]

I am a recovered alcoholic.

It should come as no surprise that my answer is "none for me."

I don't believe, however, that alcohol is the root or cause of any evil. I believe that society gives alcohol much of its power to provide pleasure beyond the dizziness and disassociation. Yes, alcohol does provide some pleasure, but from what I have found, it will not make you have a good time.

As far as its health benefits, in small doses, and with the right supplementary diet, some forms of alcohol can have positive effects. What I interpret this to mean is that anything beyond the second glass does more harm than good, and unless you are already eating an entirely mediterranian diet, (not just a pasta bowl at Olive Garden or any other americanized mediterranian restaurant) then even that first glass could do more harm than good.

Now, back to the social aspects of alcohol. You're having a good time because you think you're having a good time. When you look back on what you did when you wake up the next morning, you have forgotten most of the night already, so all of the boring parts are out of your mind completely. It's like holding down the shift button when you delete a file from your computer; it's gone for good, and only close examination will show you that something is missing. There is no "recycle bin" for your memories when alcohol is involved.

So, this question is for those who believe in either intention-manifestation or its close psychological neighbor, self-fulfilling prophecy (SFP): what happens when you do something thinking that you'll have a good time? Well, usually, you go ahead and have that good time. From what I have found, that is the power of alcohol; it lowers your capacity to reason clearly enough that if you think you should be having a good time, then you're happy. If you factor in the fact that you forget anything boring, then you're left with either the happy or not-so happy memories of that night, so the next time you drink, IM/SFP takes over and you're happy again.

My stance is that occasional drinking can enhance your pleasure. Whether the pleasure is purely chemical or if it has some psychological nature is debatable, but I'm leaning on the side that psychology has some effect. Of course, if you can't stop drinking (like I found myself) then one drink even occasionally just isn't worth it.

[Adam]

I do have to make a quick addendum...

Alcohol gets people to talk, so long as you don't drink so much that you can't communicate effectively. Anybody who has been to Callahan's Place will tell you that shared pain is diminished, and shared joy is increased. What better way to share than to talk?

[Baltar]

I never liked alcohol of any kind so I don't drink at all basically. My whole family drinks during celebrations, holidays, birthdays, etc. so I take a sip or two. Every time I do it just confirms how much I hate the taste though. And I'm talking about champagne/wine here, I've never touched hard liquor. Yuck! I did try drinking alcohol in some meaningful amount (about half a glass of champagne) a few times but I remember getting a headache some of those times. Other times it simply made me feel really weird, and whatever the feeling was I didn't like it.

I haven't done much research on alcohol but here's some info from a few sites I just googled up:

• More than one or two drinks a week promote aging
• Continued alcohol use can cause depression
• The stomach is irritated by alcohol, causing increased stomach acid production, causing heartburn and eventually ulcers
• Alcohol use leads to destruction of liver cells
• Alcohol negatively affects the reproductive system
• Alcohol depresses the body’s immune system making it easier to get sick

Alcohol Awareness Page
Drug Information - Alcohol

[mattsonn]

Two years in a fraternity made me pretty comfortable around alcohol. Of course alcohol is bad. But I don't think that those two years left any lasting negative effects on me.

[ReallyGoodIdeas]

I drink alcohol regularly. Maybe 4 nights a week, usually 1-3 drinks. When I go over that, I usually regret it. I have had many happy evenings over a couple of drinks, and I think it does seem to act as a social lubricant. I'm an extravert, but shy as well, so I'm aware that I use it for that. I definitely loosen up after a drink.

I also really enjoy a nice wine for the flavour. Since I drink almost nothing else except water and coffee, it's nice to have something different to drink...

Once I've dealt with coffee, I'm going to have a 30 day trial on alcohol...

joy to you
Hazel

[jbischke]

This is an interesting issue. One of the things that I've been playing with lately is whether it is possible to get a similar state change without alcohol. Tony Robbins talks about this somewhat on his CDs (Personal Power I think). After all, that's the main benefit of alcohol for most people...to feel more social, relaxed, fill in the blank...

My early research and experimentation makes it seem to me like there is a lot that can be done to get state change similar to alcohol but that it is a lot of work and at first will seem very minor. In my case I do a visualization/anchoring exercise that helps change my physiology. I'm still in the opening innings of doing this but I'm pretty optimistic about it. My goal is to replicate that unstoppable/disinhibited/top of the world feeling that I've had in the past after some drinks with no alcohol or prehaps only a drink or two. I'll keep ya posted!

[mattsonn]

Forget it. I was going to say something, but the Animus is right. If your goal really is personal development, then using alcohol is not the right way to go.

[The Animus]

OMFG. Can't even believe you people are asking this question.

Is it okay to ingest toxins 'well, only one or two glasses a day, or, only on special occasions, or, the toxins will help me with spiritual clarity! or help me to connect to other toxic people!'

Very disappointed in you all.


Where are all the smart people???

[The David]

They're right next to you, in that plastic bubble of yours.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by The Animus

OMFG. Can't even believe you people are asking this question.

Is it okay to ingest toxins 'well, only one or two glasses a day, or, only on special occasions, or, the toxins will help me with spiritual clarity! or help me to connect to other toxic people!'

You're right, it is a drug after all. It just happens to be legal like nicotine and caffeine. But given the ubiquity of it in western society, most people don't see it as something really bad. Everyone knows it's bad in large quantities, but it's probably a lost cause trying to convince people that even small amounts of it are bad. Most people I've come across in my lifetime have this notion that "everything is ok in moderation." I've always wanted to say "is poison ok in moderation too?"

This argument is used for consuming just about anything ranging from alcohol to high sugar content soft drinks to all kinds of animal products. In reality many things (like refined sugar) are not good for you in any quantity, but try telling that to most people...

[Angela]

Are you nay-sayers completely disdaining the studies that have shown a glass of red wine a day will help you live longer, and reduce your risk of heart disease?

[RandomGuy101]

I don't know about you guys but most of my social outings involve large amounts of alcohol. Whenever it is someone's birthday they are targeted with extreme peer pressure. The goal of my friends seems to be: make the person take as many shots as possible so they pass out, puke, and get kicked out of the club. Then my friends write things on their face with permanent marker.

My last 2 bdays I have ended up passed out and puked in my sleep. I believe I was very close to death from alcohol poisoning both times.

I don't know if I have a skewed view but a lot 20 somethings in the San Francisco bay area seem to do a lot of binge drinking. I personally used to black out at least once a week, sometimes even driving and not remembering anything. One quote I will never forget is one morning I woke up at my house and didn't remember the night before. I asked my roommate "Dude, how did we get back last night?" His response: "Dude you drove us all back! You said you were fine!"

I now have much better control over my drinking and I limit myself to 4 drinks if I go out and one if I want a drink with dinner.

I Don't really know where I was going with this post just wanted to share.

[The Animus]

Yes, just as much as oxygen is good for you and will help you live longer, so why don't you go breathe it through a few cigarettes?

The studies of red wine are on the antioxidant benefits of the grapes, not the alcohol. Alcohol itself is a toxin.

[Angela]

Everything's a toxin, if you take the wrong dose.

[mattsonn]

Tons of normal, smart, and happy people drink alcohol too. For those people, it's just not a big deal.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by Angela

Are you nay-sayers completely disdaining the studies that have shown a glass of red wine a day will help you live longer, and reduce your risk of heart disease?

There may be some benefit, but from reading the Wikipedia article on Alcohol Consumption and Health it looks like those who don't already drink shouldn't start regardless of any potential benefits. Also, that article says that some amount of alcohol is always naturally present in our bodies because "many of the bacteria in the intestines use alcohol fermentation as a form of respiration." I figure my body will create its own alcohol if it needs it.

"Given that there is a vast panoply of very effective and under-used cardiovascular drugs and that the beneficial effects of alcohol are small and ill-understood, all those present at the Novartis Foundation meeting concurred that global recommendations such as '1-3 drinks per day are good for you' are not only meaningless but also irresponsible."

"People who choose not to drink alcohol should not be urged to drink to gain any potential health benefit… Non-drinkers can use other strategies, such as regular exercise, giving up smoking, and a healthy diet, to gain protection against heart disease."

[shesaboutspirit]

For me, the concern is more about, am I choosing to drink because I can and feel like it's an okay choice for me? Or am I feeling more of an addiction sort of non-choice? Usually, it's the latter. That's where my concern is. I think many of us are in denial about this addiction...because it's socially acceptable to do every day to some degree.

I've had good experiences and many bad as well, while under the influence. Mostly, I find an "acceptable" level of one or two glasses of wine in the evening. It calms my over active mind in many ways...yet more than likely, brings a bit more drama to my emotions...which is already usually a bit much to begin with.

I wrestle with this regularly...and would like to come to a place of peace, where I feel more in charge of what part of me is choosing. Not sure if this made any sense, as I'm starting that second glass of wine as I speak

Cheers?

Pam

[tc33]

Originally Posted by The Animus

OMFG. Can't even believe you people are asking this question.
...
Where are all the smart people???

So I was out the other night drinking a bottle of pure sulfuric acid, and I thought to myself, "hmmm...will this help me with my personal development?"

Animus, was this a smart move? You're obviously the only smart guy on this forum. Maybe I should have had the liquid dran-o instead? What do you think?

[sfh123]

I enjoy drinking socially, when I'm feeling celebratory. It often helps overcome my shy nature and allows me to "let it out", unabashed.

But I'm considering stopping it all together. I heard it destroys ones will power and I can sense that kind of effect on me...I'll start drinking and all discipline for wholesome activities goes out the window. It becomes all about the senses....

two cents,

Leon

[belugagirl]

RandomGuy101, please tell us that your new "controlled" 4-drink limit also includes a designated driver?

You should be thanking your lucky stars that you didn't kill anyone--including yourself and your passengers--the times that you've been driving drunk. It's no joke. Please have a designated driver or call a cab in the future. A long cab ride may be expensive, but far less expensive than an accident.

(Mind you, it's not enough to feel like you won't _cause_ an accident. The question is are you sharp enough to avoid one? If you've been drinking, your reflexes can be impaired even if your BAC isn't above the legal limit.)

Stay safe, and keep others safe.

[scottyp]

I know lots of successful and happy people who drink alchohol and smoke marijuana.

Is it healthy? No.

But if you don't think drinking is a problem , I don't see any problem with drinking in moderation; if you think it is negatively impacting your life, then make a plan to stop. Getting drunk often is not a good thing, but if you appreciate the taste of a good wine or beer and don't go crazy with it then I don't see the problem. If the intoxicating effects are what you are after, then it is not a good thing.

[Blaine Moore]

Just about anything in moderation can be good for you. An excess of anything can be bad. Moderation levels can be very low or very high.

Water is good for you; more water is better for you. Until you have had too much water (and ignored the rest of your diet) and you get hyponatremia.

My take on alcohol is that wine and beer can have some positive health benefits as long as you limit how much you drink. I brew my own beer, so I know exactly what is in it, and I tend to drink 1 or 1 1/2 beers a few times a week. I enjoy the taste, and I like to drink it, but I do not like being drunk. I almost never drink rice beers such as Budweiser (or other American macro-brewed pilsners) anymore. The health benefits of wine are even greater than that for an occasional beer, but it costs more and my wife and I do not drink it often enough to finish a bottle in a timely manner very often. As such, we usually only open a bottle when we have guests over or we are cooking with it (which boils off the alcohol itself, by the way).

I did a 35 day test w/o beer or wine before I ran the New York City Marathon a couple months ago, and all in all I do not think that it made a very big difference in my lifestyle one way or the other. I did not sleep as well, but I do not think that that had anything to do with the lack of booze and was probably unrelated. (My wife was sick much of that time and did a lot of tossing and turning.)

I almost never drink any hard alcohol anymore. I enjoy the taste of whiskey, but I tend to get to the buzzed state way too quickly and I do not like to buzzed so I usually just pass on it for the past 3 or 4 years.

In general, I think that drinking beer or wine is better for you than drinking an equivalent amount of coffee or soda. Caffeine is a far worse drug than alcohol (or tobacco) but it is not a controlled substance so people usually ignore that. It is much more addictive. I completely eliminated caffeine from my diet when I went blind for 2 weeks once and I found out that it was one of the catalysts for my cluster migraines I had been having my whole life.

[Adam]

Here's something that many people probably don't know...

People die when they quit drinking alcohol cold-turkey.

In fact, I was hospitalized the first time that I quit drinking... I'd been having an average of 3-5 drinks per night for a month before, then when I quit, I had one day of a hangover, and the next day, I had shakes so bad that my roommates sent me to the doctor. The diagnosis was alcohol withdrawal, and the doctor told me that I was lucky I had roommates, otherwise there was a good chance that I might have died.

Now, besides air, water, and food in general, what else kills you when you quit using it? Perhaps some of the harder drugs do, but innocent alcohol can't cause that much damage! Oh no! (Sorry for the sarcasm... )

If anyone wants to experience the effects of alcohol without taking a drink, go into a decompression chamber. The quickly thinning air will starve your brain of oxygen in the same way that alcohol does, without a hangover, liver damage, or even withdrawal. Just be sure that the person controlling the chamber knows what he's doing, or you might end up with The Bends (nitrogen poisoning). If everything goes right, you'll be drunk in no time without any poisons in your system.

[Dimitry]

Originally Posted by Adam

Here's something that many people probably don't know...

People die when they quit drinking alcohol cold-turkey.

In fact, I was hospitalized the first time that I quit drinking... I'd been having an average of 3-5 drinks per night for a month before, then when I quit, I had one day of a hangover, and the next day, I had shakes so bad that my roommates sent me to the doctor. The diagnosis was alcohol withdrawal, and the doctor told me that I was lucky I had roommates, otherwise there was a good chance that I might have died.

Now, besides air, water, and food in general, what else kills you when you quit using it? Perhaps some of the harder drugs do, but innocent alcohol can't cause that much damage! Oh no! (Sorry for the sarcasm... )

If anyone wants to experience the effects of alcohol without taking a drink, go into a decompression chamber. The quickly thinning air will starve your brain of oxygen in the same way that alcohol does, without a hangover, liver damage, or even withdrawal. Just be sure that the person controlling the chamber knows what he's doing, or you might end up with The Bends (nitrogen poisoning). If everything goes right, you'll be drunk in no time without any poisons in your system.

I think the discussion is here whether quitting alcohol is good or not. Not the actually process of quitting.

And how much for one of those decompression puppies?