Alcohol - What's your stand?

[Cassie]

I see nothing wrong with alcohol in moderation. I'll consume one to two glasses of red wine per day a few times a week for circulation purposes (and it tastes marvelous with some dishes). Alcohol is one of this things that are unfortunately easy to abuse. I show proper respect to alcohol and am very careful not to go overboard. Therefore I have had no problems with it.

[joelyle]

hi,

For me: nothing is as refreshing as cold beer. The problem comes in when it gets past refreshment and into a means of escapism/alcoholism. For the six years I did not drink alchol: I drank more soda and coffee. My body has told me to lay off the soda and reduce the coffee; I feel much better. I have also drank so much, at times, that I woke up the next morning wondering why I felt as I did (I thought I had not drank). There is also definite impairment the next day. I believe that alcohol is a depressant. One glass, per day, of wine or beer, seems to be about right.

[RandomGuy101]

belugagirl:

Yes you are correct, if I am driving I do not have more than 2 drinks. I have definitely learned from my mistakes with alcohol and I feel lucky to be alive and not in jail.

That being said, I have friends who I know still regularly drive while under the influence. Driving drunk used to be such a regular occurance in my social circle that it did not seem like a big deal at all, it was even encouraged sometimes as being cool and fun. Most of my friends grew out of this phase but some have not. I believe about 30% of my friends have had DUIs, some have had accidents.

[Maxwell]

Moderate drinking is good for your heart. Social drinking is good for meeting new people and establishing new relationships. Many people of prominence go to the local restraunts in my town. I also go there a few nights a week.

[The David]

Can someone give us a reason to drink alcohol that doesn't fall into these categories:

1. It's not as bad as something else.

2. Everything in moderation is okay.

3. It's legal.

4. Red grapes have antioxidants.

[Angela]

Other than 6. Social Lubricant, you mean?

7. It's fun.

[Angela]

Oops. Probably forgot #5 because of delayed onset alcohol damage.

[Maxwell]

Originally Posted by The David

Can someone give us a reason to drink alcohol that doesn't fall into these categories:

1. It's not as bad as something else.

2. Everything in moderation is okay.

3. It's legal.

4. Red grapes have antioxidants.

1. You are coming off as a little biased to me. Its beneficial to your heart health, and not just red wine.

2. I disagree with that. Is smoking crack in moderation ok?

Here is another two, not sure why you need more than #1. Your heart health is important to you, is it not?

It tastes good.

It makes you feel good.

[belugagirl]

RandomGuy, I'm glad to hear it. Good for you.

If you see friends about to drive under the influence, though, you would be absolutely right to try to stop them. They may resist or give you a hard time, but you may be saving their lives, and other lives as well.

It's a BIT off-topic, but I've periodically wondered about this myself: What is a good way to coax a friend into handing over the keys if that person has been drinking and does not seem sharp enough to drive? Anybody have ideas on this one?

[Cassie]

I'm extremely firm and do whatever it takes to get their keys. If they're happy drunks, its usually not too difficult. If they're being billigerent, I let them throw a hissy fit and take their keys anyway. If they didn't want to be coddled, they should have been more responsible with their drinking, shrug.

I've unfortunately gone through this many, many times with my older brother. i love him very much but he doesn't make the wisest decisions sometimes.

[SamBeaven]

I'm very much in favour, especially at this time of year. I ove being in a warm pub on a dark night with my friends about me, good conversation and roaring with laughter. It's like we're chasing the night and the cold away with drink and song.

Good times. But only in moderation. I don't get passed out or puking my guts out drunk (I vomited once on a night out, but that was more due to the designated driver's poor driving. If someone's too brake-heavy I'll spew, guaranteed), and we take a taxi home when we're in the city. The fact that I'm a happy drunk certainly helps.

[Pavel Alasheev]

Originally Posted by The David

Can someone give us a reason to drink alcohol that doesn't fall into these categories:

1. It's not as bad as something else.

2. Everything in moderation is okay.

3. It's legal.

4. Red grapes have antioxidants.

From what i know, there is absolutely nothing good about alcohol. Therefore i see no reasons to consume it.

Regarding this list:
1. That's not a reason. Nobody makes you choose from either cocaine or alcohol. Why not abandon both of them? (along with other drugs and poisons)
2. "Okay" meaning "does not kill you instantly"? Not a reason either.
3. Cyanide is also legal. But nevertheless it will kill you in a second.
4. Then eat red grapes. Of all alcohol only good red wine can have a positive effect on your health, but it's not related to alcohol itself! The alcohol contained in a glass of wine is harmful nevertheless. There are many antioxidant supplements out there which have same positive effect as red wine, but without the negative effect of alcohol.
6. As for its effect on socializing, it's kind of like saying "Killing people is good, cause it makes me feel self-confident". It's much better for you and the whole world, if you find other ways to build your confidence.
7. Yeah, fun it is. It kind of makes you feel connected to other people. But this feeling is based on "lower" parts of human nature. After you experience a feeling of connectedness based on higher vibrations, then you'll clearly see that the fun inspired by alcohol is somewhat false.

Personally, i drink very seldom, and i'm going to give it up for good in the nearest weeks.

[Fusebox]

Dont drink dont smoke. Ever. Simple really.

[jbischke]

My $0.02

Everything we ingest into our bodies affects us in some ways. I know some people who wouldn't touch alcohol but will make multiple trips to the buffet line and stuff themselves with food. Is that any better or any worse? I don't think there's an easy answer.

I think a key thing to this conversation is awarness. Awareness of what alcohol does to your body (both good and bad), how it affects your psychology (both good and bad), why you drink, etc. (And this isn't just about alcohol...I'd extend the importance of awareness to everything including what you eat, the decisions you make, etc.).

If you're not aware, that's a bad thing period.

If you're aware and don't want to drink (or overindulge) but find yourself doing it anyway, that's also a bad thing.

If you're aware and make a conscious decision then I see little wrong with it.

It's like a line from the movie "The Doors" where one of the band members pulls Jim Morrison aside (this was later in their careers) and says something like "We took drugs to open our minds not to escape from our lives." Sadly, most people use alcohol/drugs/food/sex as the latter. That's ultimately where the real harm comes from...IMHO...

[Athena]

How about this question, which PDers should really be asking: Is alcohol compatible with optimal health?

I say absolutely not.

==

Like stated above, alcohol is a poison, and is detrimental to both your body and mind, and spiritual clarity as well.

Who is drinking primarily because they think it is beneficial to their health? Has anyone started drinking in order to be healthier?
Cardiovascular benefit comes from about a hundred different healthy things you can add to your regimen; drinking alcohol for some supposed benefit to your heart is not worth the damage to your liver or brain.

And you guys probably know that already, right?

[The David]

I know it can have positive effects, and I'm not saying whether or not there's a place for it. But if you're going to defend it from a nutritional standpoint, you need a better reason than red grapes. You can get red grapes anywhere.

[The Probabilist]

Thanks to everyone who replied by sharing their views. Even though (somewhat surprisingly) most of you approved of alcohol consumption in moderate amounts I'm holding on to my initial goal of excluding it. I'll focus my effort on improving my social skills so that alcohol doesn't have to do that part for me. I know that there's no resistance or awkward moments ahead for me by doing this and there simply isn't any form of attachment to or difficulty rising from doing this. I guess I'll keep myself free and clear from alcohol for this whole year and make a re-evaluation next winter.

Thanks again for all your input.

[The David]

If you have any sort of apprehension regarding alcohol, then I would indeed advise you to stay away from it.

[zgatt]

I had this same curiosity, here's my thinking.

I noted Steve mentioning it just twice, once to say he drank more before he was 20 than since, and once to, as I read it, scoff at the idea of ordering a drink with dinner. He chooses not to address the issue directly. Erin made a pretty clear statement of her preference (dry) in a forum post, and summed up with (paraphrase): if you like enjoying life to the fullest you'll drink alcohol, if you can't abide an unclear head you won't; very nonjudgemental on the issue, IMO.

This is not simply a matter of introspection, history can tell whether dynamic people have used alcohol. I think the conclusion is, it is not a necessary condition one way or the other. OTOH, there is plenty of evidence that it is very destructive for some, so something to be vigilant about.

FWIW, my own experience with (not) teetotaling are inconclusive.

So my summary is: take care not to let alcohol interfere with your purpose, but it may be sympatico with your recreation.

[Shaden]

No - two reasons. First is moral, second is just common sense.

As for the common sense bit, it seems a lot of people aren't aware of the well-documented placebo effect associated with alcohol. In other words we get drunk because of the chemicals, but our own expectations of such a result magnify it's effect ten-fold.

Won't go into the moral reasons...

[John Wesley]

The key is to do what works for you. If you would rather abstain, thats fine, and if you enjoy alcohol in moderation, that's perfectly fine as well.

I think alcohol does have some positive effects. First of all, a slight buzz is certainly pleasurable, a couple drinks can really help you relax and become a more sociable person. Many of the most interesting conversations I've had have come over drinks.

Can these same benefits be obtained without alcohol? Of course, it just takes a bit more effort and the desire to go against common social norms. If you need to stay away from places people drink because you want to abstain, it will likely have a negative effect on your social life.

The only real problems with alcohol are caused by a lack of moderation or poor judgment. Using it properly is something that is hard to master because you're always tempted to go a bit further.

[Love]

I really don't like the taste of alcohol. After trying some things, it seems rather amazing to me that a whole society is actually convinced that this stuff tastes good. It seems to me to be an episode of the Emperor's New Clothes. Anyway, I don't drink at all now, except when there's nothing else (like at a dinner table in France). And it's kind of a blessing and a curse. I won't ever become drunk or start puking everywhere. However, bars really don't have an interest for me (why pay for a more expensive coke?) and I have no fascination with other drunk, stupid people, which is really kind of horrible because I'm so young and it's supposed to be the thing to do for young people.

[dalante]

Up until now, alcohol has been associated with going out. I.e. everytime I have gone out, met friends, etc, I would drink (more or less heavily)

Recently, I am associating alcohol with celebrating. It makes me ask the question: what exactly am I celebrating all the time? And the sad answer is... not much really. I have considerably cut down consumption, and would like to only drink when I have something to celebrate. I have to admit that it really helps to wind down and put your worries away when meeting with friends (because you don't want to bore them with worries)...

[Matthew Shea]

Originally Posted by zgatt

I had this same curiosity, here's my thinking.

I noted Steve mentioning it just twice, once to say he drank more before he was 20 than since, and once to, as I read it, scoff at the idea of ordering a drink with dinner. He chooses not to address the issue directly. Erin made a pretty clear statement of her preference (dry) in a forum post, and summed up with (paraphrase): if you like enjoying life to the fullest you'll drink alcohol, if you can't abide an unclear head you won't; very nonjudgemental on the issue, IMO.

This is not simply a matter of introspection, history can tell whether dynamic people have used alcohol. I think the conclusion is, it is not a necessary condition one way or the other. OTOH, there is plenty of evidence that it is very destructive for some, so something to be vigilant about.

FWIW, my own experience with (not) teetotaling are inconclusive.

So my summary is: take care not to let alcohol interfere with your purpose, but it may be sympatico with your recreation.

Zgatt, you have a very balanced perspective. I agree completely. I'll add that, if at any time someone suspects, however slightly, that they may have gotten out of control with regard to alcohol, they probably have indeed done so. At that point, a re-evaluation of alcohol's place in one's life would be an order.