going raw is becoming intolerable -help

[funchy]

End of week #1 of the Raw diet :

Any advice for someone who doesn't think I can make it even 30 days on a raw diet? I've been to every grocery and market around trying to find things I can make myself eat. Can I make this work if I slip in a small amount of cooked food?

Ever eat to much of something and then you can't force yourself to take another bite? I hit that wall on raw broccoli on day 1. By Day 4 I was tiring from carrots, even the baby and yellow ones. Day 6 I'm sick to death of leafy greens. The thought of something like a raw green pepper is making me really unhappy.

I've done as many fruits as I can find, too. I'm still able to tolerate an apple or two a day. I've eaten so many bananas I felt like all I could taste was banana. I'm literally feeling sick when I think about more oranges or grapes. I can still eat some strawberries, but a food I loved has turned into ugh when I'm forced to eat it.

I've picked up avacadoes, sprouts, seeds, any of the nuts I can tolerate. I've opened up cookbooks and made my own tahini and guacamole. Ive done smoothies and fruit cocktails.

I'm also getting really sick of water. I pour myself a cold glass and then I stare at it, procrastinating having to drink it. I feel dehydrated.

I am forcing myself to eat the quantity I need to get enough food. I have lost 5 lbs so far but it may be mostly water. No bad adjustment period for me or detox symtoms.


It's dinnertime and I'm hungry, but I can't seem to force myself to eat anything (at least nonthing raw). But my mind keeps wandering to chocolate and something with rice and pasta. I am extremly unhappy right now. But if I break this and have a real meal, I don't think I can stomache another full week of raw.

Help!

[Steve Pavlina]

The first week is always the hardest. It gets easier.

One thing that helps a lot of new raw foodists is to eat your fill with every meal, so you won't be hungry for a while. Don't worry so much about mixing foods improperly. Just aim to stay 100% raw, and make refinements later when you're past the hump.

Juicing has been working really well for me lately. I try to drink about 32oz of fresh veggie juice per day. That seems to balance out the sweet fruit I eat.

Snacking on lots of veggies may not be that helpful, since veggies don't have many calories. Better to make a big salad with a high-calorie dressing and/or some avocados and olives, or a smoothie with 4 bananas to keep the calories high.

If you're hungry all the time, it basically means you aren't eating enough calories -- aim to consume more fruit and/or fat.

[Dimond]

The key to being and staying raw is finding foods you enjoy. From your description, you're literally forcing yourself to eat things you don't like. That's not going to benefit you. You need to find raw equivalents to cooked food. Not necessarily the same foods, but ones you enjoy equally if not more. There are many raw websites and forums that post recipes and where you can get support and ideas.

It also sounds like you're following some specific way of being raw that isn't working for you. Usually the best way is to eat whatever you want as long as it's raw. When that becomes easy, then you can adjust your diet to suit any health issues or lifestyle. You also may not be someone who can go 100% immediately and that's alright. Becoming raw doesn't need to be difficult at all, other than possible detox.

[TonyToneTone]

Eat what feels right for you and your system.

[Dimond]

Originally Posted by TonyToneTone

Eat what feels right for you and your system.

Or what he said.

[NickW]

--trying to find things I can make myself eat
--you can't force yourself to take another bite?
--The thought of something like a raw green pepper is making me really unhappy.
--I'm literally feeling sick when I think about more oranges or grapes.
--I'm also getting really sick of water.
--I am forcing myself to eat the quantity I need
--I'm hungry, but I can't seem to force myself to eat anything (at least nonthing raw)

funchy, why are you doing this to yourself? Have you inquired? Why turn food into a distracting, painful fetish? It's only lunch, for God's sake. Eat, enjoy, relax. Are you using food as a way to express some strange mental disorder?

You need to read the articles from this page:

The Psychology of Idealistic Diets

The Psychology of Idealistic Diets
Orthorexia Nervosa: Obsession with Dietary Purity as an Eating Disorder

"Why do some people become so enamored of a dietary ideal that they throw common sense to the winds, react in hostile or hateful fashion to questions and challenges, and persist on a diet even in situations where their health begins to fail?"

"Obsession with dietary perfection can sometimes do more harm than good, says a physician in alternative medicine (and one who has been there). Originally published in the October 1997 issue of Yoga Journal, and reprinted here by permission of the author, this piece coins the term "orthorexia nervosa" in describing a novel eating disorder of recent years: extreme fixation on eating proper food that becomes pathological."

[MariaG]

@funchy - When it comes to dietary changes, I do better with gradual change. It took me 4 years to stop eating meat, but I've stuck with it for over 10 years now.

I'm slowly transitioning to veganism with more raw foods thrown in there. I've started with having a green smoothie for breakfast. This is a small change that is very sustainable for me. Sure, it will take longer for me to transition than if I did an all out 30 day trial, but I know from experience that I can manage this pace. Maybe you would benefit from a more moderate approach as well.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

The first week is always the hardest. It gets easier.

One thing that helps a lot of new raw foodists is to eat your fill with every meal, so you won't be hungry for a while. Don't worry so much about mixing foods improperly. Just aim to stay 100% raw, and make refinements later when you're past the hump..

I really respect you and what you do. Your input means a lot to me!

I made it through that night by just not having anything to eat. The next day it didn't seem so bad. Maybe I'm going to have days like this from time to time?

Today I'm not even hungry. It's not good to go all day on just a few hundred calories, but today I just don't feel like eating. Odd for me because I'm always a strong eater. Well, if nothing else this has been a good learning opportunity.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by NickW

funchy, why are you doing this to yourself? Have you inquired? Why turn food into a distracting, painful fetish? It's only lunch, for God's sake. Eat, enjoy, relax. Are you using food as a way to express some strange mental disorder"

I have the same strange mental disorder 60% of American adults have: I am overweight to the point it's unhealthy. In my case, it just got worse as I got older.

I have an overactive appetite plus I have the metabolism to hold onto weight, even with daily exercise. I weigh 290, even with being very active; a healthy weight for me is 185-190 lbs.

Eat, enjoy, relax is literally killing me. I'm only 36, and my BMI is over 40. I've been to doctors, nutritionists, regular diets, blood tests, counselors, you name it. I completely gave up sugar-soda, fast food, and chips. I've done south beach, low-carb, low-fat, fasting diets, supplements, etc. I was at the Y doing exercises classes 5 days a week. The next step my doctor said is gastric bypass (stomach stapling surgery), if I don't immediately made a radical change.

"Normal" food will be my demise. I feel like I need to go through an extreme temporarily to regain a normal relationship with food, when living in a world where all the food around me is over-processed, over-salted, artificial, and for lack of a better world 'dead'.

I originally saw a CNN story on a woman who lost half her body weight going raw, and I was intrigued. I am already vegetarian. So when I came across Steve's inspiring journal explaining how easy raw is, I wanted to try it. If nothing else, it just wanted to see what it was like.

I was just puzzled why I hit a roadblock that made me not want to eat at all, as that doesn't usually happen to me. All the books say it's terrible to drop under 1500 or 1000 calories/day, so I wasn't sure if was a big deal if it only happened occasionally.

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your thoughts!

[NickW]

funchy, if you'd mentioned your medical condition earlier, I wouldn't have commented.

[tyre]

One thing i've read regarding the first week is training your taste buds. Heres a link..

Basically, after a week you will have new taste-bud cells that will most likely be more in-tuned (or shaped for the right molecules) with a raw diet and hopefully will taste better. Thus, the loathing of broccoli might let up

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by funchy

I originally saw a CNN story on a woman who lost half her body weight going raw, and I was intrigued. I am already vegetarian. So when I came across Steve's inspiring journal explaining how easy raw is, I wanted to try it. If nothing else, it just wanted to see what it was like.

I'm currently including much more raw food in my diet with the intention of eventually eating all (or at least, mostly) raw.

With any diet changes, I like to make the transition slowly since it helps me manage the change more easily and doesn't require me to learn a whole new paradigm in a few days just so I can maintain my health. I think if you make the transition too quickly, it can have dangerous side effects (mostly due to ignorance or lack of support, financial, emotional, informational, or otherwise). Given your condition, though, it may be more dangerous not to make a drastic change. Only you can determine what is true for you.

In terms of some resources that might help you with eating raw food (I'm not a raw foodist myself, so I can't really help you; only point to those who probably can), here are some resources:

• A guy who was also bound for the gastric bypass route until he switched to raw food: LOVINGRAW - Tools To Transform Your Life - Home (I'd probably pay attention here if I were you since this guy basically solved the problem you're having and seems to be doing fine now, although further inspection may be required). A quote from the site:
  
  

  Who Is Philip McCluskey?
  Philip McCluskey is a 31-year-old entrepreneur, motivational speaker, blogger, and is incredibly passionate about raw foods! Being overweight his entire life, with 30 failed diet attempts, he surpassed morbid obesity and skyrocketed to a max weight of 400 lbs. After hitting rock bottom he was ready to go the gastric bypass route when he discovered raw foods. By switching to a 100% raw vegan diet overnight, he's lost nearly 200 lbs and is on the fast track to rediscovering his new superhero existence.
  
  Everything in his life changed, including health, mental clarity, spirituality, a new purpose, and a passion for spreading the raw food word. He shares his message through inspirational blogs, videos, pictures, and advice at Lovingraw.com, as well as touring the country speaking about his experiences, inspiring countless people everywhere. He has also begun writing his first book, which should be available in stores next year.

• Steve's Twitter account. Steve follows many raw foodists that you may like to check out. Twitter / stevepavlina
• Some raw food sites with either people or products that seem promising: Karen Knowler - The Raw Food Coach (a holistic approach to raw food) and Learn Raw Food (Steve recommends the book featured on the latter site; it looks pretty good, kind of like a "raw food for smart people" book. Well-presented and set out compared to most cookbooks I know)
• Here's a pretty decent raw food community that I just joined (exploration in progress): Give it to me Raw - Raw Food Community (definitely look at Steve's post history there, both posts he's replied to and threads he's started. Steve isn't a raw expert, but he seems to be doing ok. What's most beneficial is that Steve is highly effective and intelligent in terms of living and personal development, so in general, you get exposure to good resources and whatnot when you explore where he hangs out. Personal development experts, in my opinion, are some of the most effective people in the world since their expertise is so universally applicable)
• I haven't fully explored it yet, but this site seems to have an abundance of high quality, comprehensive content: We Like It Raw - Raw Food Goodness (they just posted an audio interview with Steve that's over one hour long. Apparently Steve shares lots about his past, and current raw food diet--worth a listen. I'll be listening to it ASAP)
• Steve made a post about the challenges he had with eating so much sweet fruit. The post and the responses to it should prove helpful:
  Tips for eating low-fat raw efficiently? - Give it to me Raw - Raw Food Community
• A place with hundreds (probably thousands) of raw recipes: Welcome to Gone Raw - a place to share and discuss vegan, raw food recipes! I'm not a fan of that site, though, since the organisation doesn't cater to my preference or recipe. I prefer getting recipes from people I can individualise and learn a bit about first so I can put the recipes in a larger context.
• Falling into the "notable mentions" category is this site: Raw Food Diet, Bodyweight Exercises and Self-Mastery | Raw Food Diet, Bodyweight Exercises and Self-Mastery (by someone who Steve consulted with. Find the phone call Steve had with him here). Roger is a long-term raw foodist, but I can't remember how long for.
• Falling into the "things I haven't looked into much yet, but seem worth a look" include this site: go_raw_now (this recent speech from that site looks interesting) and this site: Raw Success (Matt is a long-term raw foodist--I think close to 10 or 15 years. Usually long-term is good because it means people have found a healthy, effective, sustainable way to maintain something)

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by funchy

Help!

Oh, and how many green shakes are you making per day?

How much juicing are you doing (both home-juiced fruit juices and vegetable juices)?

Steve drinks about 1L of juice per day (as he mentioned), and I believe he has either one or two green shakes per day.

For some decent smoothie recipes that I actually use (bar the one with nuts in it; I no longer add nuts in smoothies), search for "Bruce" on the following page:

9 Fail-proof Tips for Eating Healthy at Social Gatherings | Zen Habits

Two 4-banana smoothies per day will give you close to 1,000 pretty tasty calories.

I also enjoy eating mono-meals of about 4 mandarins. A mono-meal is a meal where you eat only one type of food (i.e. only bananas, only mandarins, only mangos, etc).

[Fullcrum]

Enjoy in season fruits for lots of calories.

I can eat pounds of blueberries a day if they're in season.

Same with mangoes. Love that stuff.

[tnoranges]

Funchy, I just want to say that I know you can stick this out if you just give it a little bit more time. I have been mostly raw for almost a year now and have had tremendous improvements.

One thing that has helped me is that I found a really great raw granola that I love, made by goodstuff by mom and me. I add almond milk (I make this myself, easy to do and delicious)and a banana in the morning and it is a delight. I can eat it almost every day and not get bored.
Lunch is a really big salad, lots of greens, reds, yellows. I like to mix it up with different combinations every day I throw in some olives, radishes, celery, avocado, beets,sprouts, nuts, dried fruits, etc... and I like to make a nice dressing or just add some squeezed lemon and sea salt.

Dinner I am having smoothies, usually spinach, frozen banana and then berries, pineapple or another tart fruit.

It is great, I can vary what I put into my salads and smoothies and sometimes I try simple recipes like raw zucchini pasta with marinara... out of this world.

And I lost stubborn weight that would not come off for years. It seemed to melt right off of me.
Dont be hard on yourself either if you submit to a non raw food once in a while.
All the best !!!!!!

[Zwynd]

I heard cruciferous veggies weren't too good for the human body in moderate amounts. But meh, one study says things are good while others say they are bad...

People have given good advice in here but no one seemed to mention your water issue yet.

Add some lemon or lime juice to your water. It'll be like a bitter lemon/lime aid but will have a different taste than the boring water. Lemons are good for your system so you could add as much as you'd like. Alternatively you could also heat up your water for a warm lemon drink.

Actually, you're probably likely to find just limes for the next while rather than lemons due to that hurricane issue or whatnot.

You could also dilute apple juice or some other fruit and drink that heavily to get your water supply back up.

[Lenie]

Don't eat foods so singularly.
Get a blender.
A Juicer.
A dehydrator.

Make the recipes on WeLikeItRaw.

Repeat.

[HenriettaWill]

Lenie touched on this already--but I think one of the most important things to learn when you're first starting out is how to make raw recipes that are tasty. I have tons of raw cook books, and by far my favorite is Alissa Cohen's Living on Live Food (available through amazon.com or at alissacohen.com). She has lots of reasonably simple, palatable recipes.

My favorites are:
1) the Mock Salmon Pate (which is delicious on celery sticks):
recipe (look for version 1) posted here: Mock Salmon Pate

2) the Sunny Pate (which I eat wrapped in nori with peppers, lettuce, and tomatoes):
the recipe's posted here (look for the sunny pate version below the basic pate): The Vegan News

3) Date Nut Torte (which makes a super rich, yummy dessert):
How to Make a Date Nut Torte | eHow.com

All three of these recipes are good because they don't really taste like their ingredients--so if you're getting tired of certain foods, this might be a good way to get some taste-variation.

Good luck!!!

[Lenie]

Now I wanna make the pate. Yum.

[Dimond]

Raw offers the most amazing, delicious foods. I can't imagine eating any differently. Would much rather have raw lasagna or raw pizza, than cooked. Would rather have raw ice cream, mousse, or fudge than the junk available in stores or restaurants. There are so many options that it should never be difficult to enjoy eating this way.

[Bruce Achterberg]

I just updated my post with the big list in it to include this site:

Welcome to Gone Raw - a place to share and discuss vegan, raw food recipes!

Also, I want to let you know that Karen Knowler is having a sale on her raw food related ebooks and products.

To quote her Twitter page:

50% OFF Birthday Sale: eBooks half price (great!) *BUT* if you sign up to eZine you get 2 FREE GIFTS no-strings! Successfully Raw Ezine - Sign Up Here!

If you sign up for the newsletter now you might still have a chance to get the two free gifts. The 50% off sale lasts till 12 October, UK time (not sure exactly what timezone).

I could publically post the URL for the gifts, but I probably shouldn't. Maybe if you sign up to the newsletter and ask Karen for them via her website contact page she'll send them to you (or I could, but they're not my resources to share, so contact Karen).

I plan on buying quite a few products; I'm just assessing my decision to determine a good route (darn my maximiser talent theme for manifesting as if it's the strategic theme, heh. Sorry, that was just a bit of strengths-theory humour).

[Barcs]

This may sound silly, but I'm looking to start a raw trial sometime within the next couple months. Is sashimi (raw fish) allowed? Obviously you can't have the cooked rice, but I was wondering if it's strictly fruits/veggies/nuts, or if you can eat fish as long as it's not cooked. If it's allowed, I'll have absolutely no problem with it.

[nslayton]

@Barcs: I've been wondering the same thing about sashimi in my transition to raw. There is no doubt it is pure deliciousness, however, through a little research and contemplation here is what I've discovered. For one it definitely would not be considered "raw vegan" since it actually is an animal which refutes the whole vegan part. This leads to ethical problems with large scale fishing as well since the practices used to catch most are simply unsustainable in the long run. Some hardcore vegans also like to bring up the unnecessary suffering of the fish in order to please your taste buds. (This is not my personal reason for going raw but after Steve's post about the spider it made me question some values.) And then we have the ordeal of fish, especially tuna, being polluted with high amounts of mercury, so it might not be the healthiest choice in the long run either.

But really its not a matter of whether a food is "allowed" or not; just make the highest conscious choice that is best for you. Because I know if I ever get the whiff of some fresh sashimi I'll probably be dropping my vegan tag for a little while.

So what do you think? Is it "ok" to be a raw foodist (non-vegan) and still eat fish?

[Lauxa]

@Barcs: There's all kinds of raw, including raw meat/milk eaters. Just depends what you want to do.

@funchy: What about eating dried fruits? You can get a lot of calories that way for less effort. Also try making a raw mayonaise, then you can add it to shredded carrots/cabbage/broccoli for salads. Also raw corn is pretty easy to eat. Also try spicing up your foods with lime juice and jalepenos. Good luck on your trial.

[Ninja]

Maybe you aren't feeling hungry because your body has started to tap into its fat reserves for energy? Your lack of appetite might actually be a good sign! Just make sure you get all the nutrients you need and don't fuss over calories so much.

[funchy]

Well, it's day 11. I am adjusting better but I'm just finding myself not hungry for a few hours, at times I think I am supposed to be eating.

I've lost about 7lbs so far. All the diet books say don't lose weight too fast.

My big crisis day also tied in to the start of my monthly hormonal shift. I don't call it pms because I never get crabby. I just neglected to take into account my body isn't static.

My theory so far is that the occasional mental discomfort is coming from me having to adjust to how I see food. In other words, food is no longer recreation, social bonding, a tranquilizer, or a sugar rush. I never realized so much was tied into the simple act of eating.

I am also noticing other peoples' reaction when they see me eating only healthy food. Some try to connect by talking about someone they knew who went raw. Some don't understand. My mother said "that's great" and proceeded to make me *cooked* applesauce. (She means well, bless her!)

I still hate water. I know coffee and tea aren't "raw", but I've got to drink something. I dilute them and add lemon. I am coming from a diet where I used to drink nothing but soda all day, everday, and so this is a big change.

I keep looking at juicers online, but I've yet to order one. I am not sure I'd drink the juice. Fruit smoothies in the blender didn't do much for me.

Overall, I'm hanging in there and it's getting easier.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by Barcs

This may sound silly, but I'm looking to start a raw trial sometime within the next couple months. Is sashimi (raw fish) allowed? Obviously you can't have the cooked rice, but I was wondering if it's strictly fruits/veggies/nuts, or if you can eat fish as long as it's not cooked. If it's allowed, I'll have absolutely no problem with it.

In terms of the... terms, "raw" can include anything that's raw, from meat, to fish, to dairy, to chicken, etc. Just because something is raw doesn't necessarily mean it's healthy.

"Raw vegan" includes raw fruit, nuts, vegetables, and seeds; no animals or animal products, or as I like to say, "if it has a face, it's not vegan; if it's cooked, it's not raw."

Based on my observations, raw veganism is the healthiest route. It also makes the most sense to me.

[Peaceflmeadow]

I am working my way to raw a bit slower, trying to gradually increase time I am raw each day and see how it goes.

I switched to all raw breakfasts first (about 3-4 weeks ago), once I was comfortable and in that habit, I started in on lunch. At first, I made a big salad for lunch, and then had a small serving of cooked dinner leftovers around 3 or 4 pm, that need for extra protien was a hard habit to shake...plus I was getting used to the volume I needed in raw food.

Now that I have more recipes, and am getting into my shopping habits, I have changed all my snacks to raw, no more hot tea, and I eliminated the afternoon 'protien' snack.

So far, I am now raw from morning until about 6 or 7 pm, and I am moving my dinners to more and more raw content. I am very happy at this state.....I feel great all day, and my medical problems (gastric related), love the raw foods so far.

I have had some cravings for chocolate, and sometimes breads.......but by telling myself to stay 'raw' through the day but not to the point of complete deprivation, I have done better then I have on other drastic food changes. While I do not have a weight problem, medical issues have driven me to A LOT of food restrictions over the last few years, so I have dealt with these crazy cravings before (although I have lost 3% of my body weight over the last 3 weeks which I am not complaining about).

If I get comfortable in this stage (raw until evening), and if it feels right, I will go ahead and replace my dinners as well and make the 100% plunge. But I am not pushing it at this point, I am just watching how my body reacts to different options and combinations, and taking it from there.

I am not a vegetarian right now, so this is double change for me, and something I am surprised at how relaxed and peaceful it feels to move into. Previously I was open to telling everyone around me all about the food path I was heading down now (removal of wheat, eggs, lower carbs......). But with these changes, I have remained silent, feeling like this is more something I would like to take on myself with none of the typical commentary from my coworkers.....and that I would rather see where this journey takes me instead of setting up paticular expectations.

All in all, this raw path has been a pleasant one, and am happy to see where it will take me....which is a first for all the diet related changes I have made over the years. I always felt 'I will do this for 3 months, and then bring such and such back in' kind of approach. This feels more like a permenant shift, and I find myself focusing on the different aspects of the food I am eating, rather then what I am not (example, suddenly kiwis right now are the most pretty and juicy and freshest things I have eaten, and thats so much fun to enjoy in that moment). That keeps me motivated to continue, I am excited to see whats around the next corner.


Erin

[Rapid]

Hi, just wanted to encourage you and everyone else who's trying to go raw to keep going.

As for me, I've had good days and bad days (today was one), battling cravings arisen due to influences of the media, proximity to cooked foods, and unconscious living. For the past couple of weeks I've been slipping on and off the diet, and I'm paying for it now. Weight is still stable, I think, but my skin has been itchy and painful pimples have popped out on my face. My elimination habit has changed as well (not a good sign). The condition of my skin was basically flawless during the mid-summer 'til beginning of fall. So, yeah, your diet does matter. The effect of a slip-up is immediate, at least for me.

Just found out that my fortified soymilk has too much added sugar in it (probably why I haven't been feeling great drinking my green smoothies). So I'll have to find an alternative.

I now know how difficult it is for people to quit smoking and drugs! I think that I need to join some sort of Cooked Foodist/Non-Vegans Anonymous. I don't think that I can really be somewhere between 0% and 100% raw vegan and not suffer cravings if I still let myself indulge once in a while.

I'm drinking a green smoothie now (made of spring mix, tomatoe, and orange), hoping to clear my system or something.

[funchy]

I've gone back to "normal" food for the next few days. Sorry, everyone.

I've gotten very sick, almost bad enough to consider the emergency room. (But then I remember it's a 4 hour wait unless you're missing an arm or leg!) So I made a doctor's appt for ASAP, which to him is Friday morning.

I don't think it's the raw diet that did it. But until I talk to the doctor and I feel better, it's best I stick to what I know. I'm not sure how much information is too much, so stop reading right now if you don't like personal info. For the past week I've been having stabbing lower abdominal pains that feel like a massive bladder infection that won't stop. At times it was so bad I was hunched over in pain and couldn't think. I'm not prone to them, nor have I ever had one even close to this bad. I don't think there's something in a raw, vegan diet that would trigger bladder issues, but maybe I am overlooking something?

I am not a fan of medications, but I tried them first to see if I could get relief. Nothing helped, not even the special otc bladder analgesic.

I ate "normal" food last night... lots of evil fried stuff and some spaghetti. I had a little soda and gulped it down, suddenly thirsty. I hate to say it but by this afternoon, my weird pain is 99% gone.

I am puzzled???? I don't want to write off the idea of better eating, but I need to understand what happened before I go back to raw. If the doctor says anything of interest, I'll let you know.

Again I want to stress that I don't think the raw diet is faulty. It may have been coincidence or perhaps a latent problem that just appeared now. I hope to try raw again, sometime soon.

Well, if nothing else this has been an interesting learning experience.

THANKS everyone for your kind words of support & help.