New low carb diet - Do you have any thoughts on Quinoa?

[Tabs]

I discovered and ate quinoa to me it tastes like cous cous, or rice or palenta I could name a couple other carbs it could replace, I really like it. According to my immunity boosters book, it is a "perfect food" a complete protein with 8 amino acids (don't ask me why I need amino acids, I don't know yet ). What the book or any online information doesn't say if it has carbs in it (you know like beans).

What is a complete protein? Do you have any information to share on Quinoa? All I can say it that I love it and I am about to start eating it every day or every other day starting tomorrow. Oh yes, it can pass for mashed potatoes too.

-Tabs

[kpollock]

Sorry, it's carby as a very carby thing! I dunno why people get excited about it.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

per 100g raw:
Energy kcal 368
Protein 14.12g
fat 6.07g
Carbohydrate 64.16g

[Joeschmoe]

Yes it has "carbs" in it (thank goodness). It's a grain, it should.

Don't but into the complete protien hype, all plant foods have all 8 amino acids. Some just have them in different amounts. Someone came along and arbitrarily decided what the best profile was and called it "complete."

[JSB]

Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins. Every protein is a long chain of amino acids arranged in a certain sequence and "folded" into a certain shape. Almost everything in your body is composed of proteins, and your body needs amino acids to construct them. Out of the 20 amino acids that make up all of these proteins, your body can build 12 of them "from scratch" and the other 8 need to be absorbed from your food.

The idea of a "complete protein" is one that is highly bioavailable because it contains all 8 amino acids in the proper ratios for your body to absorb. If the ratios are out of whack (too much of one and too little of another) the body will not absorb the amino acids as efficiently. So complete protein foods can be used more efficiently.

The usual cited example of combining food to get a complete protein is rice and beans. Each food on it's own has protein that the body can only absorb inefficiently (much of the protein is eliminated), but combined, the amino acid ratios are such that the total protein can now be absorbed with much higher efficiency.

I can't vouch for accuracy, but I've read that it's less important to have a complete protein at every meal than it is to make sure you ingest the proper amino acids over the length of the day --- apparently the body will not eliminate excess aminos of one type right away, so if you eat more protein at supper that complements the protein you had at lunch, the body will combine them for higher bioavailability. Can anyone comment on whether this is accurate?

[Joeschmoe]

I'm sorry, that's just not true. You don't need them in any sort of balance. All whole foods (even plants) have more than enough of each, if you eat enough calories.

The "balance" that is spoken of is in comparison to the amino acid profile found in meat. It was assumed that this was the proper balance. That is a fallacious argument. It would be comparable to looking at an orange and deciding that an orange has the proper balance of vitamins and minerals, and should therefore combine foods to make sure they have the nutrient profile of an orange. The truth is that if you get more than the minimum amount of each amino acid then you are fine. A full days calories worth of any whole food on earth (except gelatin) will have more than the minimums of each. The exception being some fruits, which is easily made up for by eating the highest protien food on earth, greens.

Here is a write up of the retraction made by the very person who introduced it in the first place.

The protein combining theory was based on interpretation of studies performed in the early 1900s on the growth of rats. The theory entered popular consciousness with the publication of Frances Moore Lappé's 1971 bestseller Diet for a Small Planet. In later editions of Diet for a Small Planet, beginning in 1981, Lappé changed her position on protein combining. In this later edition, Lappé wrote:

"In 1971 I stressed protein complementarity because I assumed that the only way to get enough protein ... was to create a protein as usable by the body as animal protein. In combating the myth that meat is the only way to get high-quality protein, I reinforced another myth. I gave the impression that in order to get enough protein without meat, considerable care was needed in choosing foods. Actually, it is much easier than I thought.

"With three important exceptions, there is little danger of protein deficiency in a plant food diet. The exceptions are diets very heavily dependent on [1] fruit or on [2] some tubers, such as sweet potatoes or cassava, or on [3] junk food (refined flours, sugars, and fat). Fortunately, relatively few people in the world try to survive on diets in which these foods are virtually the sole source of calories. In all other diets, if people are getting enough calories, they are virtually certain of getting enough protein."[3]

And to clarify Okinawans traditionally eat a diet based on sweet potato (about 70% of calories) and don't have problems getting protien form veggies.

[escapee]

In contrary to pure vegan diet, The Okinawan eat fish in their daily diet. That more or less ensure they receive ample amount of complete protein, Omega 3, Zinc, B12, Vitamin D (also through sun ) & Iron without resorting to man made supplements that didn't exist in olden days. The intake of high portion of carb is burnt off through hard word on the field and traditional Karate exercise. They also practice Hara Hachi Bu ( calorie restriction ), which is another critical factor of long life expectancy.

Hara Hachi Bu

In summary, the Okinawa approach is:
# Consciously controled portion sizes through the practice of Hara Hachi Bu: eat until you are 80% full.
# A low-calorie, mostly plant-based diet with plenty of fish and soy foods, a great variety of vegetables as well as moderate amounts of the monounsaturated fats and Omega 3’s. Include high fiber whole grains and starches.
# Regular, life-long physical activity. Tai Chi, walking and gardening are common forms of exercise.
# Staying lean and fit. The combination of diet and activity keeps body fat low (BMI 18-22).

[JSB]

Originally Posted by Joeschmoe

I'm sorry, that's just not true. You don't need them in any sort of balance. All whole foods (even plants) have more than enough of each, if you eat enough calories.

The "balance" that is spoken of is in comparison to the amino acid profile found in meat. It was assumed that this was the proper balance. That is a fallacious argument. It would be comparable to looking at an orange and deciding that an orange has the proper balance of vitamins and minerals, and should therefore combine foods to make sure they have the nutrient profile of an orange. The truth is that if you get more than the minimum amount of each amino acid then you are fine. A full days calories worth of any whole food on earth (except gelatin) will have more than the minimums of each. The exception being some fruits, which is easily made up for by eating the highest protien food on earth, greens.

Here is a write up of the retraction made by the very person who introduced it in the first place.



And to clarify Okinawans traditionally eat a diet based on sweet potato (about 70% of calories) and don't have problems getting protien form veggies.

Interesting. The idea seems to have sunk its hooks deeply into the popular consciousness; I even read it in a biology textbook. I'll have to do some research on this.

[Joeschmoe]

Originally Posted by escapee

In contrary to pure vegan diet, The Okinawan eat fish in their daily diet. That more or less ensure they receive ample amount of complete protein, Omega 3, Zinc, B12, Vitamin D (also through sun ) & Iron without resorting to man made supplements that didn't exist in olden days. The intake of high portion of carb is burnt off through hard word on the field and traditional Karate exercise. They also practice Hara Hachi Bu ( calorie restriction ), which is another critical factor of long life expectancy.

Hara Hachi Bu

Well that's not quite right. They ate very little meat at all (this is all pre-western influence)

Food group Weight in grams (% total calories)

Grains
Rice 154 (12)
Wheat, barley, and other grains 38 (7)
Nuts, seeds <1 (<1)
Sugars 3 (<1)
Oils 3 (2)
Legumes (e.g., soy and other beans) 71 (6)
Fish 15 (1)
Meat (including poultry) 3 (<1)
Eggs 1 (<1)
Dairy <1 (<1)

Vegetables
Sweet potatoes 849 (69)
Other potatoes 2 (<1)
Other vegetables 114 (3)
Fruit <1 (<1)
Seaweed 1 (<1)
Pickled vegetables 0 (0)
Foods: flavors & alcohol 7 (<1)

Data derived from analysis of U.S. National Archives, archived food records, 1949 and based on survey of 2279 persons.

Looks like total they ate less than 4% of their total calories from animal sources. About 1% from fish, 1 to 2 grams of protien from fish per day. About 4 to 8 grams of protien from all animal sources.

That's compared with the 25-50 grams of protien they got from plant food per day.

Somehow I doubt they ate fish for the the protien.

[Tabs]

Thanks everyone, I apparently will not be eating quinoa everyday, for helping me out with the information. I will however, be eating quinoa instead of rice and mashed potatoes.

-Tabs

[Keith]

Originally Posted by JSB

Interesting. The idea seems to have sunk its hooks deeply into the popular consciousness; I even read it in a biology textbook. I'll have to do some research on this.

In a nutshell: Both parties are right. Very few plants individually contain good quantities of all eight amino acids. But, so long as you eat a decent variety of (amino-acid-containing) plants over the course of a day, your body will put it together into a complete protein.

Originally Posted by Joeschmoe

Looks like total they [Okinawans] ate less than 4% of their total calories from animal sources. About 1% from fish, 1 to 2 grams of protein from fish per day. About 4 to 8 grams of protein from all animal sources. [...]
Somehow I doubt they ate fish for the the protein.

1% of calories from fish would make little difference on the protein front, but it would make a big difference to the micronutrient intake. That's a much bigger concern than protein, and B12 in particular is very hard to get from plants.

Like escapee said "That more or less ensure they receive ample amount of complete protein, Omega 3, Zinc, B12, Vitamin D (also through sun ) & Iron".

[Joeschmoe]

Keith that is still not right. There is no whole plant food (with the few exceptions) that is deficient in any amino acid if eaten in proper quantities.

Take brown rice. Brown rice is slightly lower in lycine than the arbitrarily determined "complete" protein. However, 2000 calories of brown rice has 1782mg of lysine. The rda for lysine is 13 mg/kg. For an 80 kg male that would be 1040mg. Rice, even though it is "incomplete" has a lot more than the rda.

This is why there are no recorded cases of protein deficiency with proper caloric intake, that I'm aware of. I do believe i read about a case where someone ate nothing but citrus fruit. That holds true even for vegans who don't "combine."

As far as the micronutrients go

8 Cups Sweet Potato
1 Cup Cooked Collard
1 Cup Cooked Kale
1 Cup Adzuki Beans
1/2 Cup Blueberries
1/2 Cup Mango
1 oz Nut/Seeds (4 tsp flax/1 tsp brazil/1tsp sunflower)

At 2000 calories it surpasses every single vitamin, mineral, carotenoid, etc known that we have a DRI/RDA for except for B12. It is 8% fat.

(all numbers based on the USDA SR20 as accessed thru the CRON-O-Meter, version 0.9.3)

The Omega 6 is 5.7
The Omega 3 is 2.8

This is a 2:1 ratio

That is from a nutritionist posted on the McDougall forum. The only one it doesn't have enough of is B12, but that is another long discussion. it's not even made by animals. It's made by bacteria that are ubiquitous when not sanitized out of existence. An d since you need so little of it, deficiency is rare in vegans. Most people with B12 deficiency are older and have damage to the calls that make intrinsic factor. These cells are killed by antibodies made in response to some inflammatory factor in diet. What that factor is is up for speculation.

Bottom line is that it is possible to be an extremely healthy vegan, without having to worry about protein combining.

[escapee]

Well that's not quite right. They ate very little meat at all (this is all pre-western influence)

A bit of fish protein in Okinawan diet do make a big difference on Zinc, Iron and Copper absorption.

Effect of Protein Level and Protein Source on Zinc Absorption in Humans -- Sandström et al. 119 (1): 48 -- Journal of Nutrition

The effect of increasing levels of various protein sources on zinc absorption from a legume-based meal was studied in humans with the use of a radionuclide technique. The meals were extrinsically labelled with 65Zn and absorption was determined from measurements of the whole-body retention of the isotope. The mean fractional zinc absorption for the 13 meals was 24.7 ± 6.9% and was only influenced by the protein content of the meal to a limited extent (r = 0.45). However, the amount of zinc absorbed from the meals was strongly correlated with both the protein (r = 0.85) and zinc content (r = 0.86): 5.9 ± 1.7 µmol of zinc was absorbed from the basal bean meal which had the lowest protein content; the addition of low zinc chicken doubled the protein content and increased zinc absorption to 10.3 ± 2.0 µmol; the addition of zinc-rich beef also doubled the protein content, however, zinc absorption was increased to 15.9 ± 4.7 µmol. It is concluded that the zinc content of the main protein source of the diet determines the amount of zinc absorbed to a large extent. However, relatively small amounts of animal protein can significantly improve the value of a legume-based meal as a source of zinc.

Zinc Absorption from Plant-based Diets Improves with Diary

Consuming small amounts of milk or yogurt can significantly increase zinc absorption among impoverished people living on plant-based diets, but has little effect on iron absorption, according to a CNRC study recently published in the Journal of Nutrition.

Meat Protein Fractions Enhance Nonheme Iron Absorption in Humans -- Hurrell et al. 136 (11): 2808 -- Journal of Nutrition


Prevent Disease.com - Zinc, Folic Acid Shown to Boost Sperm Count

Treatment with folic acid and zinc supplements may raise the sperm count of some men with fertility problems, new research suggests.

I think the Okinawan diet represents the best of omnivore diet and lifestyle.