Vegetarian vs delicious meat

[Sukotto]

This comic so perfectly sums up the tension between desiring to try going vegetarian and the delicious taste of meat that I thought I'd share it. [Edit... I meant the tension of my desire. I didn't mean to make that a general statement applying to everyone (since obviously lots of people are very happy giving up meat). Sorry for the confusion there folks]


(Reproduced here using code supplied by the author on his site.)

See more hipster robot webcomics and pixel t-shirts at Dieselsweeties.com

[Stephen]

Actually, when you do give up eating animals, you develop quite naturally a disgust for seeing dead animals being eaten.

This is no different from when smokers actually stop smoking. They see the light and develop disgust for the taste and smell and filth of smoking tobacco.

I don't know whether you are vegetarian or not, but the cartoon could be applied to any vice that humans get themselves into.
Alcohol, animal meat, heroin, tobacco, etc etc

Therefore if the cartoon is trying to send out a message that because a human struggles to give up animal foods, then he must be meant to eat them (which is the message I'm reading) then it's obviously logically and empiricly flawed by the examples above.

Otherwise we would be meant to consume crack cocaine, alcohol, tobacco...

The cartoon doesnt in your words ""perfectly sums up the tension between desiring to try going vegetarian and the delicious taste of meat""

What it does is highlight the struggle humans have to give up vices.

Delicious? I suppose a heroin hit is delicious at the time, or a cigarette after a meal.

I think satisfying to the vice is a more appropriate phrase.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Actually, when you do give up eating animals, you develop quite naturally a disgust for seeing dead animals being eaten.

If so, it takes a while to kick in. I've given up meat for a month or two, and was quite happy to eat it again afterwards.

Originally Posted by Stephen

Therefore if the cartoon is trying to send out a message that because a human struggles to give up animal foods, then he must be meant to eat them (which is the message I'm reading) then it's obviously logically and empiricly flawed by the examples above.

I suspect you're reading more into the comic than was intended. It's probably just a bit of "isn't that character quirky!?"-based humour.

If you want to read a message into it though, you could do worse than "If you love something, don't overdo it - you'll appreciate it more in moderation".

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Keith

If so, it takes a while to kick in. I've given up meat for a month or two, and was quite happy to eat it again afterwards.


I suspect you're reading more into the comic than was intended. It's probably just a bit of "isn't that character quirky!?"-based humour.

If you want to read a message into it though, you could do worse than "If you love something, don't overdo it - you'll appreciate it more in moderation".

Yes Keith, you are probably right. I may have been more accurate to say.."When you truly internally give up eating animals rather than just abstaining"

Well we wont really know what the intention of the cartoon was. How can I be reading more into it in that case?

But the logic is flawed in it regardless.

[Rose of Cairo]

I agree with you Stephen, when you make the internal shift it becomes disgusting.

What also cured me from eating meat was to eat it without salt, and without any spices, herbs, sauces or other stuff. Just the blank meat. Then I realized that what I used to love was the salt and spices on it, not the meat itself. The meat without salt tasted like a mix of blood and ♥♥♥♥♥ (sorry).

[Akashic_Librarian]

Last night I saw a good episode of South Park that funnily enough highlights this issue, it was the episode where Stan's dad thinks he is an alcoholic and he believes that he has to either be totally without, or full on with alcohol.

Well I believe its similar with meat, taking ethical issues aside I believe a little bit of a meat diet, but also a bit of vegetarianism can be good for the better, maybe even better than a full vegetarian diet in terms of psychological happiness and well being.

[beautyscientist]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Last night I saw a good episode of South Park that funnily enough highlights this issue, it was the episode where Stan's dad thinks he is an alcoholic and he believes that he has to either be totally without, or full on with alcohol.

Well I believe its similar with meat, taking ethical issues aside I believe a little bit of a meat diet, but also a bit of vegetarianism can be good for the better, maybe even better than a full vegetarian diet in terms of psychological happiness and well being.

And given that meat production costs a lot in environmental terms, I think in the long run we are all going to have to get used to eating less meat. I tend to agree that it is delicious too, but I could live with having it much less often and it being a bit of treat rather than a staple.

[Akashic_Librarian]

I don't each much myself these days, the occasional bit of bacon, a burger now and then, chicken once or twice a month, not much really.

[beautyscientist]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I don't each much myself these days, the occasional bit of bacon, a burger now and then, chicken once or twice a month, not much really.

I am not a nutritionist, but I wouldn't mind betting that was about the optimum amount from a health point of view. And much more sustainable for the planet than eating it nearly every day like I do.

Thanks for giving me a nudge.

[Sukotto]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Actually, when you do give up eating animals, you develop quite naturally a disgust for seeing dead animals being eaten.

[snip]

I don't know whether you are vegetarian or not

I have not had that experience... Even after 30 days or more of meatless and/or dairyless eating I continue to find meat very appealing as a food. When I return to eating it my body does not have a sickness-reaction or revulsion that Steve (and several forum members) talk about having.

Perhaps my mental makeup is different? I dunno.

[Remiel]

Originally Posted by Sukotto

I have not had that experience... Even after 30 days or more of meatless and/or dairyless eating I continue to find meat very appealing as a food. When I return to eating it my body does not have a sickness-reaction or revulsion that Steve (and several forum members) talk about having.

Perhaps my mental makeup is different? I dunno.

Thats my guess. Personally I'm not a vegetarian here so I can't say fore sure first hand. I don't have the time, discipline, or means to really attempt it seriously so I'm half raw foods half cooked / meat . No clue if it helps me at all but hey its better than fast food. I do know that when I do go full raw I will experiment to see what effects meat would have on me after being raw without any meat for 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 1 month and 2 months periods. It would be a fun experiment imo.

Anyhow I find it hard to think that meat in and of itself would become mystically bad unless you had the mindset that it was bad. Lets look at another food for example. Chocolate. So if you gave up chocolate for a year is chocolate going to magically going to start tasting bad? I think the revulsion is knowing what you are eating and having moral problems with it more than it is a physical revulsion to it.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Remiel

Anyhow I find it hard to think that meat in and of itself would become mystically bad unless you had the mindset that it was bad. Lets look at another food for example. Chocolate. So if you gave up chocolate for a year is chocolate going to magically going to start tasting bad? I think the revulsion is knowing what you are eating and having moral problems with it more than it is a physical revulsion to it.

I don't completely agree with you here. Let's take chocolate. I used to LOVE chocolate and chocolate cake. After several weeks of eating raw, I ate some chocolate cake. No moral problem with that. And to my great surprise, it tasted awful.

Same with milk. As I wrote in another thread today, I used to love milk, and had no moral problem with it back then. Then I had to cut it off my diet for two months. When I drank some milk again I vomited, it was unbearable.

[Remiel]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I don't completely agree with you here. Let's take chocolate. I used to LOVE chocolate and chocolate cake. After several weeks of eating raw, I ate some chocolate cake. No moral problem with that. And to my great surprise, it tasted awful.

Same with milk. As I wrote in another thread today, I used to love milk, and had no moral problem with it back then. Then I had to cut it off my diet for two months. When I drank some milk again I vomited, it was unbearable.

Interesting. I suppose going from unhealthy to unhealthy won't cause much of a problem (like a chicken and beef sort of thing, or potato chips to candy bars). I look forward to the day that I can experiment with going full raw.

[jeff3]

If you look at what people eat all over the world you should quickly notice that they 'learn' to enjoy whatever they have. This notion of one thing or another being revealed to us as disgusting, or us "seeing the light" about it is not an accurate description of what really happens. I can think of many foods that I used to love but don't any more simply because of them being removed from my environment or vise-versa, I know this does not mean they were bad or evil, I just quit eating them and 'lost my taste' for them. Remember that first beer or cigarette, how terrible it was, then after a few months or years they become good or great, then when you quit them they are not so good again.......simply a matter of developing taste for them, then losing it, nothing mystical nor any deeper meanings about it, it's just human adaptation.

Now, if you attach 'personal significance' to any of these things, and that's your right, it may have these meanings.....to you, just remember that your perception, your experience, that does not make it universal. After you quit eating meat you may indeed realize that now you are disgusted by it and that you find it disgusting that anyone else would eat it, you may even wonder why they can't see it your way....because it's so obvious.

This ability to place personal significance on pretty much anything is part of being human, it helps organize our thoughts and also plays a part in our self image, but........it is a very human flaw to project our personal reality onto others or try and force them to conform to our ideas.

[makessense]

Originally Posted by jeff3

If you look at what people eat all over the world you should quickly notice that they 'learn' to enjoy whatever they have. This notion of one thing or another being revealed to us as disgusting is, or us "seeing the light" about it is not an accurate description of what really happens. I can think of many foods that I used to love but don't any more simply because of them being removed from my environment or vise-versa, I know this does not mean they were bad or evil, I just quit eating them and 'lost my taste' for them. Remember that first beer or cigarette, how terrible it was, then after a few months or years they become good or great, then when you quit them they are not so good again.......simply a matter of developing taste for them, then losing it, nothing mystical nor any deeper meanings about it, it's just human adaptation.

Now, if you attach 'personal significance' to any of these things, and that's your right, it may have these meanings.....to you, just remember that your perception, your experience, that does not make it universal. After you quit eating meat you may indeed realize that now you are disgusted by it and that you find it disgusting that anyone else would eat it, you may even wonder why they can't see it your way....because it's so obvious.

This ability to place personal significance on pretty much anything is part of being human, it helps organize our thoughts and also plays a part in our self image, but........it is a very human flaw to project our personal reality onto others or try and force them to conform to our ideas.

Great explanation here. You should have your own blog.

[Dragons80]

Being a meat eater, a vegan, a smoker, a drinker or whatever is all mental. A friend of mine was a vegan for years and then one day she just didn't want to be a vegan anymore and started eating meat. I used to be a smoker and then one day I was like Ehh I don't want to do that anymore. If you don't want to do something and you're strong willed then you won't do it, not because the taste is appealing or not.

[uberinquisitive]

Originally Posted by Sukotto

This comic so perfectly sums up the tension between desiring to try going vegetarian and the delicious taste of meat that I thought I'd share it.

Story of my life!

Thing is - I absolutely adore meat, in a Hannibal Lecter-esque way. I love the blood...the buttery, tender texture...the carnivorous flavors...I've had crocodile meat (delicious), and am looking forward to cobra when I next go to Thailand.

You know how a lot of people crave desserts, or sugar, or bread? I crave extra rare prime rib, foie gras, and delicate slabs of fatty tuna sashimi.

And yet, there is an angel on my shoulder that screams, "Think of the animals! And your cholesterol level!"

Therefore, my compromise: drastically cut back on mammalian flesh. I limit my intake to one meal of delectable, fatty red meat per week. The rest of the week, I have one meal of seafood (usually sushi or sashimi) per day, and a lot of fruit.

I tried going raw for about a month. I lost my desire to eat. It was as if all the color in my life faded into gray. I felt fury towards bananas, like, "I have to eat you muthaf*ckers again? AAAAARGH!"

For me, eating is more than just re-fueling my body. It's an aesthetic and sensual and social ritual. I'd rather live 10 fewer years than give up my beloved Peking-style duck and raw oysters.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Well I believe its similar with meat, taking ethical issues aside I believe a little bit of a meat diet, but also a bit of vegetarianism can be good for the better, maybe even better than a full vegetarian diet in terms of psychological happiness and well being.

Taking ethical issues aside?

How does that work?

[amandalynne]

I have not had that experience... Even after 30 days or more of meatless and/or dairyless eating I continue to find meat very appealing as a food.

^I think it takes longer than 30 days.

I was one of those people who stopped eating meat in this order: pork, steak, ham, hamburgers, hotdogs, bologna, dark chicken, dark turkey, tuna, white turkey, crab legs, white fish, big shrimp, baby shrimp, salmon, baby scallops.

I think it took about 3 years to phase out meat altogether...and at the time, it was more about taste preference than ethical issues or health or anything else. I just hated the taste of beef and ham-- and then I started hating the taste of chicken and turkey. The longer I went without meat, the more repulsive the other forms of meat started to look.

...But I still craved deli turkey slices for at least 6 months, and salmon for at least a couple years. You just have to replace those flavors with new foods, and make sure that you're getting enough protein (and omega-3) from other sources. And as your body chemistry changes, your tastes will change, too.

[Teraleth]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Taking ethical issues aside?

How does that work?

Some people aren't vegan/vegetarian because of ethical issues. I don't eat meat because a vegan lifestyle is healthier, but I could care less if other people ate meat or not. As well as that, if I'm hungry and there's nothing but meat left to eat, I don't have a problem with that as it's only one instance. Respect the opinions of others - while this forum may be more open-minded than most, make sure you don't fall into the trap of becoming close-minded to mainstream views. The irony would be rather bitter.

[Sukotto]

Well, I seem to be swinging back toward the "vegetarian" end of my pendulum again. We'll see how long I last this time :-)