How not to lose weight on a raw diet

[The Cloud]

Ha, sound to me like you have exactly the opposite problem that most overweight people have. They want to eat unhealthily and be thin, whereas you want to eat healthily and be fat. Unfortunately, they both seem to indicate the same fundamental issue, and I wouldn't want to see you go down the path of fatorexia (don't look this up on Wikipedia, I made it up ). You seem attached to a body image like you were before, the only difference being that you currently have the body to fit the image.

I don't know what your exact feelings on this are, and whether it's a detrimental state of mind or not. I just wanted to point out the possiblity that you haven't taken care of your fundamental issue, you've just replaced the word thin with fat and unhealthy with healthy. If this isn't the case, then have fun and don't let me rain on your parade .

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by The Cloud

Ha, sound to me like you have exactly the opposite problem that most overweight people have. They want to eat unhealthily and be thin, whereas you want to eat healthily and be fat.

Hahahaha! you're right, lol

Unfortunately, they both seem to indicate the same fundamental issue, and I wouldn't want to see you go down the path of fatorexia

lolol fatorexia

Oh my, thank you for this brilliant post The Cloud, you had me laughing out loudly so much

I don't know what your exact feelings on this are, and whether it's a detrimental state of mind or not. I just wanted to point out the possiblity that you haven't taken care of your fundamental issue, you've just replaced the word thin with fat and unhealthy with healthy. If this isn't the case, then have fun and don't let me rain on your parade .

I thought I had explained it... I've been disliking my body for so many years, and now that this is over, I just feel the need to enjoy being overweight for a while!

I want to buy nice clothes and think "wow! What gorgeous boobs I have in this shirt!" instead of "oh my this looks crappy on me anyway, with such a figure". I want to have sex and feel sexy, instead of feeling ashamed. I want to dance and be happy with my body, instead of thinking that no matter how good I am, the dance cannot possibly be beautiful if I'm not thin. And so on.

I just want to go around loving my body, as a way of making peace with it and forgetting about 15 years of war. If I lost weight immediately now, it kinda would be like saying that I don't like it that much the way it is after all, since I want to get rid of it. I don't understand why nobody understands that!

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I thought I had explained it... I've been disliking my body for so many years, and now that this is over, I just feel the need to enjoy being overweight for a while!

I want to buy nice clothes and think "wow! What gorgeous boobs I have in this shirt!" instead of "oh my this looks crappy on me anyway, with such a figure". I want to have sex and feel sexy, instead of feeling ashamed. I want to dance and be happy with my body, instead of thinking that no matter how good I am, the dance cannot possibly be beautiful if I'm not thin. And so on.

I just want to go around loving my body, as a way of making peace with it and forgetting about 15 years of war. If I lost weight immediately now, it kinda would be like saying that I don't like it that much the way it is after all, since I want to get rid of it. I don't understand why nobody understands that!

Lol I do understand what you're talking about, it just seemed weird to me that you would deliberately alter a diet you love and that does you so much good in order to maintain a certain body type. But it's not my place to judge whether great boobs are worth eating 15 bananas and a bucket of avocados a day

[Rose of Cairo]

OK, I give up!

It's just impossible not to lose weight on a raw diet when you're overweight.

I've been 100% raw for ten days now and lost 4kg (9lbs). I'm really stuffing myself all day long with grapes, melon, bananas, dates, avocados, raw peanuts, sunflower seeds... I just cannot eat even more!

It's hopeless! I give up. (I give up trying not to lose weight of course, not the raw diet)

[makessense]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

OK, I give up!

It's just impossible not to lose weight on a raw diet when you're overweight.

I've been 100% raw for ten days now and lost 4kg (9lbs). I'm really stuffing myself all day long with grapes, melon, bananas, dates, avocados, raw peanuts, sunflower seeds... I just cannot eat even more!

It's hopeless! I give up. (I give up trying not to lose weight of course, not the raw diet)

I think Steve had the same problem in his 30-day raw trial, right? Isn't timing in when you eat your foods really important as well? Eating avocados and peanuts, seeds, all together won't do any good ... etc. etc.

[danas]

eat alot of Raw Tahini and Brazil nuts. Youre bound to gain weight from that.

[Rose of Cairo]

I do eat a lot of raw tahini! directly from the jar, with a spoon But I hate brazil nuts

[makessense]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Hahahaha! you're right, lol


lolol fatorexia

Oh my, thank you for this brilliant post The Cloud, you had me laughing out loudly so much


I thought I had explained it... I've been disliking my body for so many years, and now that this is over, I just feel the need to enjoy being overweight for a while!

I want to buy nice clothes and think "wow! What gorgeous boobs I have in this shirt!" instead of "oh my this looks crappy on me anyway, with such a figure". I want to have sex and feel sexy, instead of feeling ashamed. I want to dance and be happy with my body, instead of thinking that no matter how good I am, the dance cannot possibly be beautiful if I'm not thin. And so on.

I just want to go around loving my body, as a way of making peace with it and forgetting about 15 years of war. If I lost weight immediately now, it kinda would be like saying that I don't like it that much the way it is after all, since I want to get rid of it. I don't understand why nobody understands that!

I agree, but why do so many people have to question you want to gain weight thinking there's something wrong w/ you? There was a time when I was having a conversation with a few "fat" people and the topic of weight came up. I said I wanted to gain weight and they went ballistic on me. "What? Are you crazy?! you should be grateful you're skinny! God!" ... I turned it around and said sarcastically, "What? are you insane!? you should be happy you're fat!" Never talked to them since as they were random acquaintances, haha. It's ok to be called skinny, as they were doing towards me, but not ok to be called fat. People easily call me skinny without a hint of discomfort. Now that I think about it, I don't have any fat friends. hmmm

[Fullcrum]

A lot of us asking if we can gain weight on the raw diet are trying to merge two concepts:

1) More muscles, a 6 pack, great strength

2) The healthiest diet that leaves you feeling great all day, doesn't leave residue in your body, and lets you live a super long life.

Many old bodybuilders look terrible today. And many raw dudes have great health and appearance but are perpetually thin.

So all of us asking to gain weight are not just being vain. We want the best of both worlds. We want to bridge the gap. It's called innovation; personal development - it's why we're here.

[medaille]

I agree with your recent conclusion that you're going to have a really hard time not losing weight on a raw diet. You're giving your body the perfect fuel to create the physical you it wants and your not weighing it down with stuff that's counterproductive to that goal.

In my opinion, your problem is in your head and not your body. I think that you know that though.

I thought I had explained it... I've been disliking my body for so many years, and now that this is over, I just feel the need to enjoy being overweight for a while!

I want to buy nice clothes and think "wow! What gorgeous boobs I have in this shirt!" instead of "oh my this looks crappy on me anyway, with such a figure". I want to have sex and feel sexy, instead of feeling ashamed. I want to dance and be happy with my body, instead of thinking that no matter how good I am, the dance cannot possibly be beautiful if I'm not thin. And so on.

I just want to go around loving my body, as a way of making peace with it and forgetting about 15 years of war. If I lost weight immediately now, it kinda would be like saying that I don't like it that much the way it is after all, since I want to get rid of it. I don't understand why nobody understands that!

I read this and I end up thinking that a ton of people exercise religiously running fearfully away from themselves, hating who they are, thinking that if they just get skinny they'll be pretty and be able to like themselves. I like that you have the strong desire to like yourself no matter what your shape is. While you are clearly past the people that are running from themselves, I think it has been too recent a change for you to really understand at a core level that loving yourself and your body image are separate things. It's like you've found a whole new way to be dissatisfied with yourself.

I bet if you tried to could make a pretty damn good list of:

I am beautiful because ___________.
I love how I ____________.
etc.

As you lose weight, you're going to find a new reason every day or every week to find yourself beautiful. Today, you might think you fill out a shirt in a most delicious way. Tomorrow, might involve how persistent you are. A month from now, you might start to love your slender arms or your swanlike neck.



I would recommend reading this book review for Raw Emotions by Angela Stokes.

Raw Food, Right Now! Bringing Raw Food To Your World.: Raw Emotions by Angela Stokes [Raw Book Review]

A lot of people find that their emotions go into a period of flux and that going raw can be stressful as a lot of buried emotions work their way to the surface. You might find yourself in this category.

You have my best wishes

[The Cloud]

I think the reason that everybody (myself included) is having so much trouble understanding your not wanting to lose weight is because it's such an alien mindset. It brings to my mind something I read about a guy that had a disorder where he hated his leg. He just could not stand it. There was nothing wrong with it, it didn't hurt and worked perfectly well, he just didn't like it. So after 20 years he finally got a doctor to saw it off. Weeks later, he sent the doctor a note saying how happy he was without this leg bothering him.

That's how I see you're reticence about being skinny. Being skinny would be the equivalent of that other guy having a leg. There was absolutely no logical reason that he could give for not wanting a useful leg, he simply didn't want it. That seems similar to me for your logic on wanting to stay overweight. You have no logical reason for wanting this socially and physically detrimental state, your only defense being that you want it. Now far be it from me to condemn behavior in someone that harms no one else, but your stance on your weight is almost as alien to me as that mans stance on his leg (no pun intended). That is likely why so many people on this thread are against you on this. But nobody can argue with the logic of "I want something because I want it," so none of us are going to be able to convince you of anything different because logic doesn't enter into the equation. Personally, I think that this is a detrimental mindset, but I'm not able to argue with you so I'm not going to. Please don't take this the wrong way; I'm not saying you have a disorder, I just can't understand your fundamental mindset on this issue.

[Rose of Cairo]

@Cloud: I don't have a feeling that anybody is against me in this thread, don't worry. You're all being supportive and nice, and I thank you all very much for that.

I don't think there is no logic in my reasons for not wanting to lose weight. There is and I think I explained it already. Imagine there is someone that you don't like. Then suddenly you discover that this person in fact is totally great and lovely. Isn't it logical to want to spend some time with her? If you're fond of her, would you tell her "ok, I love you now, but would you please go?".

I know overweight is not that healthy but when you've been overweight half of your life, a few months more or less aren't going to change much in the long run.

As for the socially detrimental side of overweight, I don't care about what people think about my weight.

@medaille: thank you for your nice wishes. Reading Angela Stokes' books is planned already!

I know loving myself and body image are two separate things. I didn't say that I didn't love myself, I said I didn't like my body until recently. That's different, my body is only a small part of me and has nothing to do with who I really am.

@Fullcrum: you are right. However, I'm not talking about muscle mass that I don't want to lose, I'm talking about fat.

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

There is and I think I explained it already. Imagine there is someone that you don't like. Then suddenly you discover that this person in fact is totally great and lovely. Isn't it logical to want to spend some time with her? If you're fond of her, would you tell her "ok, I love you now, but would you please go?".

I think I see where you and I (and few other people, it seems) differ. You hated your fat body. I didn't and don't hate it. I hated my inability to do anything about it. I hated the powerlessness of being conflicted and unable to maintain any efforts toward thinness for longer than a few months. I think that I am close to breaking that block, and to a degree I have. With that power, I am taking immediate action. I can't fathom having that power and not using it. After years of struggle, being unable to truly do anything about the issue, it makes no sense at all to me to wait and relish my ability to do something without actually doing it.

I understand your logic for why you want to keep your weight on . It is your principles in the matter that I don't understand. You've chosen a fundamental basis for your logic that I would not choose, and so nothing I can say based in my logic will have any effect on yours. I could give you 10,000 reasons why I'm right, but not one would mean anything to you because you're operating on a different principle. I see no reason why being fat would be desirable as an end in itself, separate from any possible uses or benefits that fat could provide. You do. It's as odd to me as a man who doesn't want his leg, who has the power to walk but chooses crutches instead. But if you make crutches your goal, then that leg is just a hindrance. I can't see why someone would choose crutches over a good leg. But that's not a proper analogy from your point of view, and that's why I don't understand.

[Parthon]

The Cloud:

I think you might have missed the point entirely. You aren't here to help Rose, or fix her, or convince her on anything. You are here to open up your mind and see a different point of view.

That point of view is: Skinny isn't everything. There are things to enjoy about not being rake thin. In roses case she has boobs(yay! ). Hugs are much better too suprisingly. :P Aside from all the actual "positive bonuses", some people would like to experience being a new way for a change. It's a tremendous growth experience to be fully accepting of who you are, and to be in a new environment. What rose really wants to get is to explore what it's like being who she is right now, and not miss out on it because she's going to lose weight on the raw diet. She's not obese, I doubt she's even overweight, but she doesn't need to be skinny. She knows all the positives of a living healthy life and all the negatives of living unhealthily and she knows all about how to lose weight.

The tricky part Cloud, is can you accept, and understand that fully? Can you open yourself up to that is a very real place for someone to be in? You don't need to accept it or even agree with it, just realise that it's a place someone can be at in their life.

[munish]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I'm in a strange quandary at the moment.

On the other hand, I don't want to lose weight. And on a raw diet, I do lose a lot of weight.

This is a limiting thought.

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I know this is a strange question, but how to make the raw diet a bit unhealthier?

I know how it looks like when we lose weight that fast. Like ,comments from others"What has happened to you?,is there something wrong with your health?"

As society compares more fats ,with a well fed body.(this is all about social conditioning)

It is impossible not to lose weight. But if you add avocados and nuts you could control that to an extent.

But if you are worried about others' opinion , then this trial gets very difficult.

I suggest you to join a gym, you can compensate lose of weight with toned muscles and an athletic body.

[Rose of Cairo]

No munish, I don't care about what others think about it. It's only for me. You're right, it's impossible not to lose weight on that diet. I eat about two avocados a day at the moment, and lots of sweet fruit like dates, bananas, melon... and lose only 100g a day (0.22lbs). That's ok, I can live with that.

Parthon: Thank you! I feel understood Wanna hug you for that. But I AM overweight

Cloud: If I understand you correctly, you think you are overweight and you would like to lose weight, but you kinda believe you can't do anything about it because you think losing weight requires discipline and effort, and you're not able to maintain such a level of discipline and effort for a long time. Is that about right?

Good news: losing weight requires no discipline and effort. There's a very easy way to lose weight. Just go raw

[Bruce Achterberg]

I think your challenge, Rose, is that with the raw food diet the options you have are (A) muscle and (B) thin.

I'm pretty thin and lean on my vegan diet, but that's because I'm not eating excessive calories (if I did hardcore weight training, I'd be eating a heck of a lot more; at the moment, I'm feeling ok with not eating so much, but that's soon to change as I adopt more crazy training, heh).

Ever considered toning up? You don't have to get jacked with muscle, but you can become more, well, meaty and lean.

A while back I found this site:
TRACY ANDERSON METHOD | Official Site

A quote I like from the site:

Tracy set out testing women of all different shapes, sizes, problem areas, and weaknesses to answer the question, "IS IT POSSIBLE TO TAKE ANY WOMAN FROM ANY GENETIC BACKGROUND AND TRANSFORM THEIR BODY?" Her studies began with detailed research including work with physicians and muscle biopsies. Soon after, she developed a computer software program to guide her and allow her to gage how small she can actually get a person while still keeping them healthy. The program helps Tracy to navigate the muscular design goals she creates for each client. "I found out that everyone is really like a snowflake and we can't group body types to get results that hit a home run," says Tracy.

I honestly can't remember how I found that site, but the fact that this woman significantly altered her physique and created some sort of program that allowed you to "plug in" your data and have something customised for your body type interested and impressed me. The fact that she was also secretly individualising (and probably didn't know it) also impressed me. (Individualisation is a talent theme thing, by the way. I'm the kind of person who thinks there's an underlying geometry to most things, and so far, this is proving pretty accurate--consciousness, personality, effectiveness, "body transformation," and apparently now, relationships.) I suggest you take a look at the site. I'm not saying that you should invest in her products or anything, but at least see it as an example of what is possible and let it give you ideas about what it might take to get there.

Perhaps you'll still say, "oh, but this chick is thin", and well, then I can't help you. At some point I think you'll have to accept that eating raw + your natural body type = low fat.

I could never get fat on a raw diet (or so I reason), unless I just ate in a largely unsustainable way (i.e. 24/7 avocados, or something). My metabolism is simply too fast and my body type just doesn't hold fat at all (we actually have a gene that triggers fat storage in the body; they're doing testing to see if they can't turn it off and on). I'm sure I could gain muscle (significant muscle, I'm not sure on; then again, Bear Grylls has pretty high body fat and he's on a mostly vegan, non-raw diet, so hmmm; perhaps it's just a matter of me stretching with what I believe is possible and then having the evidence manifest in front of me).

But you're the authority on your own body, and your personal development, too. It's up to you to set your limits and decide what's possible. Do you know what body type you have? You sound like an ectomorph from your posts (Google search "ectomorph" if you don't understand). Coming to the forums and asking stuff is good, but it's unlikely you'll get any expert advice. You're looking for things on the leading edge, so you'll have to make your search for such things fit the part. That means looking where you are likely to find things (although honestly, I'd put some trust in the universe; solving problems by "efforting" usually does nothing, heh).

[Rose of Cairo]

Hey Bruce, thanks for the idea of toning up. But you know, this would be a change too, just another one. My whole point is to love my body exactly the way it is right now.

Of course you're right, I will have no other choice than to lose weight eventually, and then I have the choice between being thin or muscular. But I don't think this is really a choice. I am naturally muscular and I don't think this will change. During my previous raw trial I gained even more muscle.

I googled ectomorph. This is what I found:
* Definitive "Hard Gainer"
* Delicate Built Body
* Flat Chest
* Fragile
* Lean
* Lightly Muscled
* Small Shouldered
* Takes Longer to Gain Muscle
* Thin
No, I'm certainly not such an ectomorph!!

I'm small, but I'm not delicate, fragile or thin, and not of very heavy built either. I'm just medium. My bones are medium sized I guess, my joints too. I'm not very fast, but have good stamina. I'm hourglass shaped. I gain weight easily, although I couldn't end up really really obese, because it never gets more than a certain limit. I also gain muscle easily and quickly. I'm naturally very muscular for a woman, and don't need to lift weights to look as if I did. My muscles are kinda big and short, not long and lean as others have them. Even my hands have apparent muscles.

I don't know if I want to develop my muscle mass. I bellydance and I don't think looking like a bodybuilder would help. People already tell me it's too much for a woman, and I don't even do any muscle training. On the other hand, I could decide that having big muscles is just me and give a damn about whether others like it


Edit: How can you guess my body type from my posts??

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Cloud: If I understand you correctly, you think you are overweight and you would like to lose weight, but you kinda believe you can't do anything about it because you think losing weight requires discipline and effort, and you're not able to maintain such a level of discipline and effort for a long time. Is that about right?

Good news: losing weight requires no discipline and effort. There's a very easy way to lose weight. Just go raw

Haha, yeah, I know losing weight doesn't require discipline and effort, as long as I'm not sabotaging myself. But what it boils down to is that you have a different goal than me, one that I couldn't conceive of pursuing. I could see wanting to be fat for some reason, like boobs or becoming a sumo champ. I just would never consider it a desirable state in and of itself. I'm fine with that, it just seems like a weird basic desire to have, especially considering how it conflicts with your lifestyle. That was another thing that threw me off, that you wanted to eat healthy and be fat. But I suppose everybody has to make a choice between conflicting desires, so that's not so strange. Anyways, good luck not getting too skinny .

[danas]

I see a link between the fact that youve finally accepted your body as it is, and the fact that you can easily and enjoyably lose weight after years of struggle.
You now love your body so your body no longer needs the extra pounds of protection it was carrying.
heres an allegory
Lets say a single woman who has a lot of pressure from her mother and from the society she lives in, where she is not the norm, to finally settle down and get married. The single woman wants this very much too. She wants to finally fall in love and doesnt feel comfortable still being single at her age.
Then one day she changes her mind. She says I dont care what society thinks, I dont care what my mother thinks- being single is fun! She is proud to be single, she enjoys every minute of her freedom- and then of course she finds love- but then she says to the man- wait! I love you but I was just starting to love and accept my singleness! I dont want to give in to social norm- let me enjoy my singleness a few more months...

Thats kind of what you are saying...

I think an important part of personal development is to adjust and accept change. You cant keep your old body because the new improved you needs a different body now to experience life in a new way.

You've actually inspired me. reminded me that if we want to change something in our life, which is maybe not so easy to change, we first need to love and accept the present situation totally and then change will suddenly be easy- as easy as losing weight on a raw diet while enjoying the process.

[Bruce Achterberg]

@Rose:

Sorry, I should have just linked you to my good source of info on bodytypes. Another case of "doing it the longest way is the fastest way."

Here you go:

Somatotype and Constitutional Psychology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

* Ectomorphic: characterized by long and thin muscles/limbs and low fat storage; usually referred to as slim.
* Mesomorphic: characterized by large bones, solid torso, low fat levels, wide shoulders with a narrow waist.
* Endomorphic: characterized by increased fat storage, a wide waist and a large bone structure.

Forget all that other stuff about ecto's being frail. As I said, I'm an ecto, and while I may be bony, I've never experienced anything that would suggest I have anything other than excellent bone density.

Anyway, the impression I got from your posts here is that you want to not lose weight, but my updated impression is that you want to be congruent with who you are (i.e. your body now). I suspect that there's possibly a desire in there somewhere that's in conflict, but I could be wrong.

I can guess your body type pretty easily; all I do is do is compare aspects of your posts to other things I know, then I take a stab. Whether it's right or not is not really my concern, although I do aim for accuracy. My Activator talent theme generally makes me drawn to the ready-fire-aim approach.

The more interesting answer to your question goes into topics such as the subconscious and competitive games, but that's neither here nor there. (It also helps that I'm a master researcher. )

Overall, it seems to me that you just need to define what you want and align with it. You seem to have a pretty good idea of what you want, but you seemingly resist that. You also say that you're losing weight, but you're already not thin, so I'm kind of confused.

So instead of diving into the complexity of that, here's an example.

When I want to make bodily changes, I identify what I want. E.g. Right now I could use some more muscle mass. I'm not satisfied with my current strength, and I generally prefer being more muscular than I am at the moment.

From there, it's simply a matter of eating intelligently and doing some training (not just any training--it needs to align with your goal--but you get the idea).

Danas (who posted below) made a good point about how you just made a big change in your life and that now you have to accept the full package of the change so you can align with it. Steve covered this in some of his content somewhere. I'm not the Steve-encyclopadae I used to be--it took a while, but for me, all of his concepts have kind of blended into a usable whole instead of being tied to singular articles (which is super-handy for PD, but no ideal for linking to posts in threads). Either way, this quote from this article sums up the idea:

You can certainly have a quantum leap that doesn’t involve dietary changes, but you may find as I do that your dietary leaps induce major shifts in the other areas of your life too. So in order to make the dietary improvement, you have to accept the whole package of consequences. If you resist any part of the package, you resist the dietary change as well.

For now, I'd opt to using truth, love, and power (and the secondary principles, if you have enough understanding about them). Not everyone will be able to do that (I know an aweful lot about Steve and his content, so I can use his concepts pretty well without having read his book), but if you can, it's your best bet for making improvements (or so I currently believe; unlikely my belief will change significantly any time soon). I've been using the model almost exclusively since I found out enough about it for it to be usable (it "clicked" for me when I read his newsletter book update, and other content since then has helped, too).

In fact, the more I focus on trying to look for answers "out there" instead of increasing my internal alignment with truth, love, power (or a combination of), the more drained, disempowered, and less authentic I seem to feel. It's the most uncanny thing, since that didn't used to happen. I guess my awareness has increased, since I feel much more "tuned in", and when I'm not tuned in, I just get crazy synchronicities. I'm not complaining!

Probably the best advice I can give you, whether you use the TL&P model or not, is to go with what feels good. Don't take any action that doesn't feel like it resonates with you. The "action" may make logical sense, but the energy behind it will make it so that any progress you make is kind of like chasing a rainbow: you're doing things and moving towards your goal, but the final destination is constantly just out of reach. Best to turn inward and let that be your compass. For me, my intuition seems best for doing that; thought is too easily influenced by fear. Intuition seems to cut deeper.

[agnostic]

My advice to the OP:

If you don't want to lose weight on a raw-vegan diet, be sure to drink lots of juices and eat lots of high-carb fruit. This will keep your insulin level up and keep your fat where it is. It will also keep you hungry so that you will eat enough calories.

Best of luck.