What is the point of Tai Chi?

[Tabs]

I love the idea of tai chi, I even love doing it but I don't know what the purpose is? Is it meditation? Exercise? what?

I ask the question because when I am working out on a treadmill, I know I am working out my body, heart, lungs and reducing stress. So I can set intention and visualize the results I want, but with tai chi??? Even books I own don't say much.

Can anyone tell me how they have benefited from tai chi and most important what is it supposed to do, I get the quite the mind thing but other than that I am clueless...

Thanks

[newmark]

Originally it taught fighting, and I have met a few people who could use it this way. Unfortunately, though, most of this skill has been lost, probably forever.
Tai chi still gives some gentle exercise. It can help with relaxation, flexibility and balance if practiced correctly. It is also a form of qigong and can help with reducing blood pressure.
Most of the above benefits I've already gained from other exercise, but tai chi has definitely helped me to become more relaxed.

[Tabs]

Newmark,
Thank you so much, relaxation, flexibility and balance, okay, that works, I am a very visual person so if I can't construct it in my head I have a hard time grasping certain concepts.

Thanks a million,

[Swannie]

Originally Posted by newmark

Originally it taught fighting, and I have met a few people who could use it this way. Unfortunately, though, most of this skill has been lost, probably forever.

It still does today. I know many people who can use it. Though for many of those people they started with more "easily" recognised kung fu.

I say more easily recognised because tai chi is kung fu. This is one of my favourite clips:

YouTube - (Ma Yue Liang, Taiji Master, 92 years old

Tai chi - the entire practices - can give you so much. I don't really want to give you a list because that might limit your perspective. However, here are some of the things I get from it.

Improved balance. My balance on one leg has massively improved, and slowly continues to do so as I learn to use my hip/pelvis muscles more efficiently. My mental balance has improved too. Doing push hands pushes your buttons on competition, self-belief, etc.

Just last week I had a hard time dealing with a training partner. He's a great guy, but I was getting more and more frustrated with him. Because he kept "winning". His skill at tai chi is a couple of years behind mine, yet there he was pushing or pulling me around - and there was little I could apparently do about it. Even after switching partners it was getting to me. It is good to experience emotions like that knowing you are in a room full of people who care about you and your personal development. When those emotions come up in a less friendly environment I know that I can recognise it, and deal with it.

Doing the forms improves my co-ordination and concentration, it's massively improved my body awareness, ability to isolate and control individual parts of my body.

I find "moving meditation" to be true. I am concentrating so much on my body, etc. that I can lose a lot of time, after which my mind is very quiet.

Chi kung exercises can and should have the effect of pumping blood to parts of the body that don't usually do anything. Well practised tai chi should be using the majority of muscles in your body, so that no individual sets do work. Some exercises should be giving you essentially an internal massage.

[Jonathan Mead]

I think "moving meditation" is a great description. I'm interested in learning Tai Chi or some other type of soft martial arts, this is very valuable. Thanks Swannie.

[newmark]

Swannie; I stand by what I say on tai chi no longer teaching fighting. Yes, I know that there are some people who can use it this way, but they nearly always have a background in other styles of kung fu.
I would really love you to prove me wrong on this one, but I've spent a lot of time living in different parts of Asia and Europe and have watched, practiced with and spoken to a great many tai chi teachers and the vast majority do not emphasize martial training in their syllabus. Push hands by itself is not enough.

[TheIronStar]

Originally Posted by Tabs

I love the idea of tai chi, I even love doing it but I don't know what the purpose is? Is it meditation? Exercise? what?

As the others here have stated, most practice it as exercise and as a a moving meditation and/or spiritual discipline, although it did at one point have a martial focus.

The traditional weapons associated with it are, if I remember correctly, primarily the longsword and occasionally the saber, although the saber associated with tai chi is of a different design than the saber associated with, say, the Shaolin arts. I'm not a tai-chi'ista, though, so do take this with the proverbial grain of salt.

[Playlife]

Why is it important that tai chi would still be about fighting? I thought that the more we evolve the less we have to fight anyway. Fighting to me seems kinda primitive anyway, no matter if kung fu or tai chi or fist fighting.

JMHO.

[newmark]

Originally Posted by Playlife

Why is it important that tai chi would still be about fighting? I thought that the more we evolve the less we have to fight anyway. Fighting to me seems kinda primitive anyway, no matter if kung fu or tai chi or fist fighting.

JMHO.

There are a number of reasons why it is important that tai chi and other styles of kung fu retain their martial heritage.
(1) The martial training is harder and much more thorough. It has to be. This in turn gives the body a great workout. Actually a better one than health only tai chi. Ironically, martial tai chi, in the few places you can find it, provides greater health benefits than health oriented tai chi.
(2) When you cut the roots of a plant it dies. This could happen to a martial art too. The roots of tai chi are as a martial art.
(3) Sometimes fighting to defend yourself or others is necessary. Actually having some ability usually gives people confidence and makes it easier to avoid conflict. A rough translation of the name of my old kung fu club is 'No fight martial art' which indicates the philosophy of the teacher.
(4) Training in a martial art focuses the mind very well and improves concentration.
(5) Fighting in a gym is better than on the street. Usually good moral training is given to martial artists. Although there are a few exceptions, the majority of martial artists that I've met would be more likely to help defend others than attack them.
These are just some of the reasons why I think keeping a connection with the martial aspects is important.

[Pascal]

Interesting. I was in martial arts 20 years ago and at that time, Tai Chi Chuan was a fighting art. Personally I don't believe that this kind of dance to what it seems to have evolved could have more benefits than any other dance.

[newmark]

Originally Posted by Pascal

Interesting. I was in martial arts 20 years ago and at that time, Tai Chi Chuan was a fighting art. Personally I don't believe that this kind of dance to what it seems to have evolved could have more benefits than any other dance.

I agree, but remember that dance has many benefits of its own, as does every exercise system. They just have their own particular benefits.
Although tai chi has lost a lot, it can still help some people.

[Swannie]

Originally Posted by newmark

Swannie; I stand by what I say on tai chi no longer teaching fighting. Yes, I know that there are some people who can use it this way, but they nearly always have a background in other styles of kung fu.
I would really love you to prove me wrong on this one, but I've spent a lot of time living in different parts of Asia and Europe and have watched, practiced with and spoken to a great many tai chi teachers and the vast majority do not emphasize martial training in their syllabus. Push hands by itself is not enough.

Sure, I have to admit to not having a very wide view of other tai chi styles outside my organisation. I don't feel the need to seek, as I have far far more than enough to work on within my own style.

(However next year I've set a goal for my tai chi, and if I reach it, my "treat" will be to try some other things. Akido and a full on external kung fu style being top of the list).

I'm lucky that the style I practice has tai chi, kung fu, throwing (& associated locking), wrestling & health elements. We have a number of weapon forms. Most of the teachers concentrate on tai chi, which is a shame, but it is usually done with a martial angle.

Even with training in "hard" kung fu styles, I do believe it would take at least 8-10 years before a tai chi practitioner has the skills to overcome a physically stronger, non-compliant, untrained attacker. Not meeting hard with hard is a tough tough lesson to learn, especially if you get a drop of adrenaline...


Why is it important tai chi has a connection with fighting? So we know it is still tai chi! Otherwise it would be a form of dance without music. Every move in our form is said to have 6 martial applications... our master will usually show us one or two, and tells us it is down to us to work out the others. If you struggle to find one that works then you're probably doing the movement wrong.

For example, we teach correct posture for the arms. This is shoulder blades not pulled back, elbows and wrists (generally) are always in front of the shoulders. Movement works shoulder, elbow, wrist. Why do we do this? Because the body works best this way. How do we know? Well, if I can come and stop your whole body moving with one carelessly applied finger to your arm... that's absolutely no good in a fight. In fact it would mean an easy lock for me.

[wolfgang]

I think a lot of the tai chi teachers are teaching it like yoga - just for health. But a good teacher will show the martial apps - because to know the application helps you get what that movement needs for best alignment of the body. That alignment gives you flexibility and strength in connecting up all your body parts as well as allows the body to not have any blockages to the chi energy and be able to move in any direction from any position during any movement.

I would say tai chi definitely has more benefits than just taking dance classes. Even if the teacher doesn't show you the martial apps. Each tai chi move is designed to show you how to be flexible and strong and there are moves that either ward off, roll back, push (and some others I can't remember) - but the point being a dance step is not designed with any martial app in mind.

If you know a tai chi form, it can be part of your reflexes. It can show up when you need it. Like walking in the forest and a branch comes swinging toward you - you might be surprised to see your body do a tai chi move on that branch. This, I think, would translate to someone attacking you. However, more so, is that tai chi practice gives you a peaceful aura and with that there is less chance of needing to fight. Like in the karate kid move "why take karate?" (or tai chi) - "so I don't have to fight".

Balance training that comes with tai chi is amazing. It easily translates to other sports. Like skiing or surfing.

There's a move in tai chi that is "fajing" that is to be used when already engaged with the opponent's movements - such that when you sense the opponent as a little off, you can "fajing" them and they go flying. It's not a strike, typically, but a pushing away by pushing when they are already going that way and knowing when to add to that will "show them the ground".

I've heard that a tai chi "fighter" will not use much energy and can just let the opponent get tired out but not being able to land a punch or get you off balance. Then the tai chi fighter can easily manipulate the opponent by using their energy against them.

Tai chi is pretty physical but not stressful. You do burn calories doing an hour of tai chi. The quads get a work out, there's lots of range of movement that stretches you out. Holding your arms up in all sorts of posses gets all the muscles in use. It may not be body building. Breathing is benefited too. One does get increase aerobic capacity from tai chi. The quads being the biggest muscle group in the body and tai chi requiring bent knees positions - gets blood going through those muscles. The kind of muscle development is inner core muscles. If you touch a tai chi master, their muscles feel like cotton wrapped in iron. They have a soft feel that is really hard underneath.

[newmark]

Swannie, It sounds like you have a good club. Even in Taiwan, not many clubs have such a balanced training.
Which organization are you with?
Good luck with the aikido and external kung fu style. I think it will be easier to adapt to another style of kung fu,than to aikido, because of the closeness of tai chi to other kung fu, particularly the long fist family.

[MartialDev]

Tai Chi is a unique martial art in the degree that it emphasizes using what you have with peak efficiency--in comparison to building more strength, speed, etc.

These values are internalized by being them, not merely by believing in them. And to the degree they are internalized, they can be successfully applied in every sphere of human activity.

This is one benefit of Tai Chi; note that benefits do not imply an intrinsic purpose.

[hkalchemy]

Here in Hong Kong, Tai Chi is a very big thing - people do it in groups in parks and gardens every morning. I'm very skeptical about it's usefulness, but I haven't looked into it. Thanks to those who have provided some info.

[Buttercat Apocalypse]

I've done slow movements of my body in a very amateurish way just because I felt like it, and it does help you get out of your mind and into the world. If no-one else has mentioned this, Eckhart Tolle speaks highly of Tai Chi as a spiritual practise. So I'm interested.

[Pascal]

Originally Posted by newmark

I agree, but remember that dance has many benefits of its own, as does every exercise system. They just have their own particular benefits.
Although tai chi has lost a lot, it can still help some people.

Wasn't here for some time, sorry for the late response. I don't assume that Thai Chi, as it is learnt now, has no positive effect. Of course it has.

The thing which I wanted to mention is: it WAS and IS a martial art. And as most martial arts, without the understanding of the philosophy, of the Why it does exist, it is only partially useful. It is as effective as weight lifting. Of course, this has positive effects for your body. But it is a bit ridiculous to reduce an asian art, which included a history, a philosophy, a way of thinking, to a simple technique of movement. You loose the most important parts of the art.

[Matt Willard]

I'd personally like to try Tai Chi as a martial art, since it emphasizes a flowing kind of style to easily manage an opponent's attack. I'm pretty sure someone's still teaching it like that somewhere...

[bluedragon]

The main thing about Tai Chi is that it is an INTERNAL martial art, which means it is aimed to increase internal strenght - the strenght and health of the vital organs and tendons, as opposed to developping physical strength.
The main benefits and advantages of Tai Chi cannot be aknowledged without the acceptance of the existance of CHI. Chi is the vital energy that informs and animates all things. It can be asimilated in various forms, trough breathing, movement, visualisation, etc. It is also sored inside our bodies in a more subtle form, that of JING, the primordial essence that gives us life. Once the Jing is depleted, according to Taoists, the connection between the spirit and the body dies, thus we die. Chi can be stored in the form of jing by various procedures, thus increasing a person's energy levels.
Chineese medicine holds knowledge about a complex system of energetic meridians underlying the body's physical structure. That's how accupuncture works. Some of theese meridians are closed unless the person practices an exercice that can unlock them. Others are just clogged by stagnant energy. The aim of Tai Chi is to circulate the energy trough these meridians trough a set of special movements, thus increasing its flow and balancing the organs.
For Tai Chi to be effective, other conditions first have to be met (othervise, it's indeed just a slow dance):
-one has to achieve emotional stability, since in chinese medicine emotions are associated with the internal organs. There are better ways of healing the organs' energy and transforming negative emotions into positive ones than Tai Chi. Meditation is one of the best.
-one has to unlock his energetic blockages by gently stretching and flexibilty exercices - especially the spinal pathway. One cannot have a deformed spinal column and be emotionally stable at the same time, according to the chinese medicine. The energy simply won't ascend from the lower energy centers to the higher ones properly.
There is no limit to the benefits that Tai Chi and Chigong (the more static form of energy work) can provide.
As far as martial aplications go, Tai Chi is probably the most difiicult to master martial art, so if one wants to learn how to defend himself fast, western boxing would probably be the best alternative. However, once a certain level of mastery is acchieved, it is one of the most efficient.
There are teachers and masters who only teach the terapeutic form although they do know the martial applications. However, as far as I have heard, there are not many disadvantages of learning it only for terapeutical purposes. However, if you do wish to learn how to use it as selfdefense, it all comes down to being able to find a teacher who would teach you precisely that. Tai Chi Quan means Supreme Ultimate Fist or boxing. It is not called that for no reason.
However, the main benefits of learning Tai Chi are increased overall health, mental clarity, emotional stability, great joint flexibilty and stranght, increased endurance and a powerful protective aura that will keep away not only negative thoughts and influences, but also negative events from occuring, such as someone attacking you on the street, so that you won't even need to fight him.