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Rapid · #1 (**permalink**) 07-28-2008, 08:23 PM

I lost another 2 lbs. in one week. Exercised two times this week (same as the week before) - been consistent about the frequency. I will work to increase the frequency.

Some other changes/challenges:
1. Eating more frequently. I'm still trying to figure out how much fruits I can/should eat. I would eat three fruits for breakfast (water fills me up, I guess) and feel pretty satisfied and then be hungry again maybe two hours later. It's a little annoying.

2. Problem with gas. I think the cause is improper food combining. I haven't been able to do mono (fruit) meals consistently. I've looked up different categories of fruits (sweet, acid, sub acid, melons) and combination rules and applied them this morning and felt better.

3. More frequent elimination (softer stools). I don't know whether this is bad.

4. One time I got overly hungry when I was out and about and wanted to go into California Pizza Kitchen! Instead I went to the drinking fountain and drank lots of water. I was able to stave off hunger and maintain clarity until I got home.

5. I find it challenging to eat vegetables raw because they don't taste as good as fruits.

6. It used to be that cooked meals with meat and heavy sauce would make me feel lethargic. Now I find that cooked veggie dishes make me feel less alert for a little while (different feeling than what I experienced with meat/heavy sauce dishes though). Why?

7. I get up early with less problem.

8. Since I don't have any junk food in the house, I reach for fruits for snacks.
While out with friends at social events this week, forbidden sugary/meaty foods were available. I either took small quantities of such foods, stayed away from them, and/or brought my own food. For example, I took 2-3 small bites of a cake, experienced slight head discomfort immediately and stopped eating. Definitely experiencing a decreased desire for processed sweets.

By the way, this weekend I watched a documentary film on a raw vegan family (The Garden Diet - Raw Food Family Site). Among other things it talks about the importance of exercise on this way of eating (since it's really easy to lose weight on this and other similar diets, you see a lot of vegetarians and vegans looking emaciated). Another thing talked about was: underweight is not (necessarily) the same as being sick. Storm (the father) said that people would say to him, where are you going to get B-12 if you don't eat meat? He would reply (I'm paraphrasing), well, cows get B-12 from what they eat, and I'm eating like cows!

lasti · #2 (**permalink**) 07-28-2008, 08:33 PM

Hey Rapid,

keep going!

You may try Nutridiary :: Free Online Diet Diary if you don't do it already. There you can log your food and calculate what you need.

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I find it challenging to eat vegetables raw because they don't taste as good as fruits.

That's also a problem for me. I'm not a raw foddist but I think it wouldn't hurt me to eat more raw vegetables. Unfortunately I don't like the taste so much...

Ceros · #3 (**permalink**) 07-28-2008, 08:52 PM

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2. Problem with gas. I think the cause is improper food combining. I haven't been able to do mono (fruit) meals consistently. I've looked up different categories of fruits (sweet, acid, sub acid, melons) and combination rules and applied them this morning and felt better.

3. More frequent elimination (softer stools). I don't know whether this is bad.

I had this as well while I was a vegan, possibly due to the large amounts of processed soya I ate in order to substitute for the meat.

Today, I cut out all soya from my diet, and am 95% raw vegan - the only animal food I eat in my diet is 416g of pink salmon every day, and the only other processed food that I eat is wheat bran.

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He would reply (I'm paraphrasing), well, cows get B-12 from what they eat, and I'm eating like cows!

That's some messed up 'logic' at work here.

Cows don't get their B12 from what they eat. They have bacteria in their stomach that convert what they eat into B12. Humans have the same bacteria, but it lives in the colon and therefore too low in the digestive tract for you to absorb.

And yes, as a raw vegan you are deficient in B12. You either get it from animal products, or from fortified products, non of which are present in a vegan diet.

I'd love to be proved wrong, though, so do try if you can.

Rapid · #4 (**permalink**) 07-28-2008, 11:01 PM

Ceros: Thank you for your feedback. I have little knowledge of nutrition, except for what's been taught to all of us. I welcome all and any feedback.

I was just reading about someone's experience going from being frutarian to lacto-vegetarian, etc. Some words of caution in the article. Just wanted to give you all another perspective.

"30 years of transitions: from fruitarian to living foods to lacto-vegetarian":
Tom Billings: dietary bio, Part A

I've dropped 3 kg during the past two weeks or so. I'm a little worried because that's a lot of weight lost for me. Although my pants are looser, I'm more concerned about following a healthy diet that's right for my body. I don't want to become emaciated.

Earlier today for lunch, I had ripe sweet mango and yellow peach and experienced a little "crash" afterwards. Kind of like what the guy talked about in his article - what you experience when you consume too much simple sugar. Perhaps my body does better with fruits that are less sweet or less ripe? (my comment about eating greener banana in another post)

Rapid · #5 (**permalink**) 07-29-2008, 01:43 AM

"Setting the scientific record straight on humanity's evolutionary prehistoric diet and ape diets."
Humanity's Evolutionary Prehistoric Diet and Ape Diets

This article is several pages long. I've posted a section below:

"How are we to determine an optimum diet for ourselves, then, given that some genetic changes may be more or less complete or incomplete in different population groups?

I think what all of this points to is the need to be careful in making absolute black-and-white pronouncements about invariant food rules that apply equally to all. It is not as simple as saying that if we aren't sure we are fully adapted to something to just eliminate it from the diet to be safe. Because adaptation to a food does not necessarily mean just tolerance for that food, it also means that if we are in fact adapted to it, we would be expected to thrive better with some amount of that food in our diet. Genetic adaptation cuts both ways.
This is why I believe it is important for people to experiment individually. Today, because of the Neolithic transition and the rates at which genetic changes are being discovered to take place, it is apparent humanity is a species in evolutionary transition. Due to the unequal flow and dissemination of genes through a population during times like these, it is unlikely we will find [more] uniform adaptation across the population, as we probably would have during earlier times. This means it is going to be more likely right now in this particular historical time period that individuals will be somewhat different in their responses to diet. And as we saw above (with the two genes ACE and apolipoprotein-B) these genetic differences may even confound attempts to replicate epidemiological dietary studies from one population to another unless these factors are taken into account.*

Conflicting data from various modern lines of evidence means people must experiment and decide for themselves. So while it is important to look for convergences among different lines of evidence (evolutionary studies, biochemical nutritional studies, epidemiological studies and clinical trials, comparative anatomy from primate studies, and so forth), it is well to consider how often the epidemiological studies, perhaps even some of the biochemical studies, reverse themselves or come back with conflicting data. It usually takes many years--even decades--for their import to become clear based on the lengthy scientific process of peer review and replication of experiments for confirmation or refutation.

Openness means challenging any rigid assumptions we may have through experimentation. So my advice is: don't be afraid to experiment. Unless you have specific allergies or strong food intolerances and whatnot, the body is flexible enough by evolution to handle short-term variations in diet from whatever an optimal diet might be anyway. If you start within the general parameters we've outlined here and allow yourself to experiment, you have a much better chance of finding the particular balance among these factors that will work best for you. If you already have something that works well for you, that's great. If, however, you are looking for improvements, given the uncertainties above we've talked about, it's important to look at any rigid assumptions you may have about the "ideal" diet, and be willing to challenge them through experimentation. In the long run, you only have yourself to benefit by doing so."

More:

"Ward, we still have some space here to wrap up Part 2. Given the research you've done, how has it changed your own diet and health lifestyle? What are you doing these days, and why?

I would say my diet right now* [late 1996] is somewhere in the neighborhood of about 85% plant and 15% animal, and overall about 60% raw and 40% cooked by volume. A breakdown from a different angle would be that by volume it is, very roughly, about 1/4 fruit, 1/4 starches (grains/potatoes, etc.), 1/4 veggies, and the remaining quarter divided between nuts/seeds and animal products, with more of the latter than the former. Of the animal foods, I would say at least half is flesh (mostly fish, but with occasional fowl or relatively lean red meat thrown in, eaten about 3-5 meals per week), the rest composed of varying amounts of eggs, goat cheese, and yogurt.
Although I have to admit I am unsure about the inclusion of dairy products on an evolutionary basis given their late introduction in our history, nevertheless, I do find that the more heavily I am exercising, the more I find myself tending to eat them. To play it safe, what dairy I do eat is low- or no-lactose cultured forms like goat cheese and yogurt.*

Where the grains are concerned, so far I do not experience the kind of sustained energy I like to have for distance running without them, even though I am running less mileage than I used to (20 miles/week now as opposed to 35-40 a few years ago). The other starches such as potatoes, squash, etc., alone just don't seem to provide the energy punch I need. Again, however, I try to be judicious by eating non-gluten-containing grains such as millet, quinoa, or rice, or else use sprouted forms of grains, or breads made from them, that eliminate the gluten otherwise present in wheat, barley, oats, and so forth.*

In general, while I do take the evolutionary picture heavily into account, I also believe it is important to listen to our own bodies and experiment, given the uncertainties that remain.

Also, I have to say that I find exercise, rest, and stress management as important as diet in staying energetic, healthy, and avoiding acute episodes of ill-health. Frankly, my experience is that once you reach a certain reasonable level of health improvement based on your dietary disciplines, and things start to level out--but maybe you still aren't where you want to be--most further gains are going to come from paying attention to these other factors, especially today when so many of us are overworked, over-busy, and stressed-out. I think too many people focus too exclusively on diet and then wonder why they aren't getting any further improvements.

Diet only gets you so far. I usually sleep about 8-10 hours a night, and I very much enjoy vigorous exercise, which I find is necessary to help control my blood-sugar levels, which are still a weak spot for me. The optimum amount is important, though. A few years ago I was running every day, totaling 35-40 miles/week and concentrating on hard training for age-group competition, and more prone to respiratory problems like colds, etc. (not an infrequent complaint of runners). In the last couple of years, I've cut back to every-other-day running totaling roughly 20 miles per week. I still exercise fairly hard, but a bit less intensely than before, I give myself a day of rest in between, and the frequency of colds and so forth is now much lower."

Stu · #6 (**permalink**) 07-29-2008, 09:00 AM

It's interesting that you get that experience from eating cake. After cutting out most fatty and sugary stuff I find I'm much more sensitive to that kind of stuff too, and if I overload on it my body lets me know loud and clear.

EDIT: hey Rapid, what was the documentary called and did you watch it online? I went to the website but I didn't see anything about a documentary.

Rapid · #7 (**permalink**) 07-30-2008, 03:36 AM

Hi. Scroll down the main page for a bit. There should be a link to the documentary on the righthand side.

I was telling someone today about my "crash" after eating two sweet fruits for lunch. She asked me, "Have you been drinking enough water?" I admitted that I hadn't. So more water for me.

Rapid · #8 (**permalink**) 08-01-2008, 06:27 AM

I found this troubleshooting article that may be helpful to all of us who are experimenting with vegetarian/vegan/raw food lifestyles:
Troubleshooting Problems in Raw-Food and Living-Foods Diets

After listening to stories about vegetarians, vegans, and raw foodists who suffer from vitamin deficiencies, I think I'll try to take a multivitamin/multimineral supplement daily.

I think that my taste buds are changing. I went to a Mediterranean restaurant on Tuesday and found the cooked appetizers served to be a bit dry. Today I went to Souplantation and didn't like some of their specialty salads with oily dressing already mixed in.

Rapid · #9 (**permalink**) 08-14-2008, 05:14 PM

Hi, everyone. My biggest challenge this past week was: eating and cooking vegetarian/partially raw & vegan on an increasingly hectic schedule. I seem to be able to satiate my stomach pretty easily. But this means that I have to eat frequently during the day, unless I force feed myself after I feel full, I suppose. My taste buds tell me, yum, thanks for the 2 bananas and 1 peach. I reply, you probably need to eat more or else you'll get hungry in two hours! I wish that this experiment were less thinking intensive.

Rapid · #10 (**permalink**) 08-20-2008, 08:46 PM

I pretty much ran out of most fruits and vegetables by last Friday so I resorted to what was left in storage. I had cooked rice and some dried pork things for lunch and dinner. Prior to this I had avoided eating meat. Wouldn't you know it, three pimples started to form next to my chin! (they're disappearing as we speak)

I went grocery shopping Sunday night to replenish my supply. I've been doing well this week eating vegetarian/mostly vegan and partially raw, although I have to admit that I've had cravings for bread (and had a few slices). I'm determined to return to how I was eating prior to my temporary deviation from the path.

PlanetaryNapkin · #11 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 12:12 PM

As of midnight tonight, I'll have finished a one-week raw food experiment. So maybe it'd be interesting to compare notes.

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