Smart Drugs: Provigil

[Dan.Linehan]

I am thinking about giving this pup a try.

My experiment with smart drugs

Modafinil - Wikipedia

What do you guys think?

[martin]

Damn... I want some.

I just wonder what the long-term effects are.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I wonder if rather than use an artificial chemical to alter our brains, we should try to find out what message our bodies are trying to send when we feel fatigued or stressed, etc.

I don't know. I've always been leary of the rush to use medication for anything, particularly when it's not necessary. I don't think I would do it. On the one hand I believe we are a very intelligent species with the ability to create these drugs that can enhance and heal us. On the other hand, I think we have created a lot of new, and possibly as yet unknown, problems by relying on artificial drugs. And that's in addition to the myriad of chemicals we are subjected to from industrialization, cleaning products, etc. It feels to me like we are altering our basic biology without knowing all the concequences.

If you do go through with it, let us know about your experience.

[escapee]

Another "wonder drug" by Big Pharma, my opinion is only use the drug as a last resort.

[Dan.Linehan]

I've always had pretty severe ADD.

That's not a bad thing by any means. Learning about lots of different fields has given me a huge pool of knowledge and ideas to pull from. But what ADD does do is it kills my implementation. It is very difficult for me to sit down and implement any of the many ideas that I have.

Steve's approach, shutting the door to his cave, works for me sometimes. I think it's a good solution. The problem for me though is that I work in an office every day with a bunch of loud, friendly, sociable people. I tend to get very little done during my time there (ironic, huh?) as I am constantly pulled out of focus by small distractions and conversation around me.

I have after-hours access to the office, so I can stay late and continue to work, but after already being on the computer for eight hours during the day, it's not that much fun to stay on-line all night too and continue to more work on the computer.

Normally, I am very much against medication. I don't like the idea that people should look for answers outside of themselves. I think many drugs can cause negative, even violent behaviors. Disassociation is not the same as emotional well-being. The effects of coming off a dissociative drug can be unpredictable, to say the least. I don't take any meds; the only time I have was when I took Ritalin for a brief time in college.

Speaking of taking Ritalin, that was a pretty interesting experience. I realized that focus is a constant trade-off. I also realized that I'm pretty lucky that my default setting is distraction.

For example, I got really great at solving complex calculus problems while taking Ritalin. In theory, I probably could have always solved them. But being in a classroom, even one where most of the people are being quiet, is very distracting to me. I would generally get so distracted that I would just skip the longest problems so I could watch the other students or look out a window.

Once I started taking Ritalin that changed. I would number crunch every last thing on the page. Then, and I had never done this before, I would double check all my work. I would redo every last equation to make sure it was exactly right.

That type of focus made me great at math. It also made me terrible at English.

Strong writing is all about flow. It's about carrying an idea through to a logical conclusion. When I would write a paper while taking Ritalin it would have no flow. Each sentence would be perfect. In fact, read independently, each sentence would express it's very own perfectly unique concept, completely apart from the rest of the paper. You just wouldn't want to read a whole paragraph at once! Let alone ten pages of sentences that didn't interrelate.

I wouldn't even realize anything was wrong with my writing until the next morning, when the effects of the drug had wore off and I would re-read a paper.

Conversations are also a flow. Ritalin would sometimes gave me a slight stutter in conversations because I would over-focus on a thought before I could finish saying it.

The slogan should be: Ritalin! Great for math equations, but don't try writing English papers on it..

Drugs like Ritalin and Adderall are trade-offs. You're definitely giving up a part of yourself. Specifically, you're giving up the part of yourself that has an overwhelming curiosity and wonderment about life. You're trading it in for a very narrow, focused perspective for a few hours. And during that time, and because of that focus, you tend to get a lot done.

At this point, it's a trade-off I'm willing to try again.

Over the past two years I've tried very hard to stay focused on several long term projects I want to complete. I've broken them down into incremental steps. I've written schedules, I've said affirmations, I've visualized. And I've been moderately successful. But the spot where I constantly fail is staying on task when completing the to-do lists I have set for myself. Day to day distractions consistently take me out of focus.

Unlike Ritalin or Adderall, Provigil doesn't have amphetamine, so I suspect the effects will be a bit different. I'm pretty sure that my results will end up very similar to those posted in the original link though. I'll keep you all posted.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

It sounds like this could be a good thing for you. I'll be interested to hear your follow up. I've always been sort of anti-pills, mostly after seeing the effects my aunt suffered and how I reacted to drugs for depression when I was in high school. However, of all the choices you have to help with focus, this one certainly seems effective and less prone to problems and addiction than the others.

I hope that you get the results you are looking for! And I also have this feeling that if you expect something to be good for you and not have negative side effects it will be. Since I've always been suspicious of pills, that has reflected in my experience with them.

[escapee]

According to various researches, most of the ADD sufferers are deficient in omega 3 - essential fatty acids, Minerals ( eg : Zinc ) or B vitamins ( eg : B-6 ). So that's something for you to consider before making a jump on the bandwagon of wonder drug.

Just do a google search ..

[Jennihul]

People just love their 'silver bullets.'

My job as a healthcare practioner will always be secure as long as people continue to seek chemicals to enhance their lives. They are seeking almost faster than the drug companies can cook up new batches. So I'm livin' large.

No drug is safe. There are always side effects. Some become evident very quickly, some not for years or decades.

You evolved on this planet as a perfect specimen based on what the planet gave you and gave your ancestors. If you veer from that perfection in your choices, food, drink....extremely or incrementally, you pull yourself away from that perfection. Creating franken-substances is not the answer. It's a perpetuation of the problem, NOT a cure.

But feel free to put food on my table and green in my bank account. I won't complain.


Jennifer

[Logodae]

Jennihul: I'm pretty sure synthetic chemicals have enhanced my life. Among others, I'm particularly fond of my polycarbonate eyeglasses.

Not everyone is "born perfect."

That said... modafinil may not technically be an amphetamine or a stimulant, but the effects described sound similar. And it hasn't been around long enough for anyone to know the long-term effects. I would take it with caution, if at all.

[doppelgaenger]

I have taken that. It's good but it's strong for my stomach, I have to take an antiacid with that.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

People just love their 'silver bullets.'

My job as a healthcare practioner will always be secure as long as people continue to seek chemicals to enhance their lives.

Contact lenses. Wikipedia. Antibiotics. Vaccinations. TCP-IP protocol. Cochlear implant.

These are all silver bullets of technology.

There may not be a drug or surgery to replicate perfect memory yet, but give it ten years.

What is your take on the brain pacemaker?

[ThoughtAddict]

It didn't have a huge effect on me. Then again, at the time I didn't have a secure baseline to launch from. My roommate tried it at one point and reported chest pains. He went to the doctor to verify that everything was alright. A few tests later, he said it was all in his head and he felt fine.

Let me know how it goes. I wonder if it would be good as a temporary crutch to overcome my own ADD...

[Brutha]

A while ago we had a thread about the drug
Eliminating Sleep is Closer Than you Think

A close friend used modafinil for about two years, taking about 4 hours sleep per night during the week and catching up to some extent on the weekends. He had greatly improved concentration and motivation at the time, but he crashed at the end of that 2 year time period. He was so sick that he thought he had cancer and his immune system was shot - he contracted one illness after another. 5 years later he has not recovered psychologically and has bouts of depression and general malaise frequently.

After reading that I won't try modafil until more research is done.

[ThoughtAddict]

Now, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems wise to give a heads up. The US FDA has provigil as a Schedule IV substance now. Basically, it is prescription only like Ambien on Xanax. DEA, Drug Scheduling. Seems like a little while ago it wasn't scheduled at all. The DEA moves fast, huh?

[escapee]

Contact lenses. Wikipedia. Antibiotics. Vaccinations. TCP-IP protocol. Cochlear implant. These are all silver bullets of technology.

Contact lenses, wikipedia , antibiotics, vaccination and etc do not kill 100K+ ppl yearly in US alone like the big pharma wonder drugs do. I regard most drugs by big pharma as the darksides of silver bullets of technology.

Drugs 'kill 23,000 Alzheimer's victims a year' - Telegraph

More than 23,000 elderly people with Alzheimer's could be dying prematurely in care homes each year after being given drugs to keep them quiet, a report claims today.

Anti-psychotic drugs, which are not licensed to treat dementia but are prescribed to control agitation, sleep disturbance and aggression, are being given to 100,000 elderly people to keep them "quiet and manageable", says a report by Paul Burstow, the Liberal Democrat MP and a campaigner for the rights of elderly people.

What is your take on the brain pacemaker?

Good news for those who are sickened by the diseases. ( no "dangerous wonder" drugs involved )

[Jennihul]

Ok, rabid point-makers, let's stick to the chemicals about which this thread was made: Drugs to "enhance" one's life.

If you read Dan's article, you will see that his point is that this drug can apparently be used, not to cure a disease, but to make a normal person somehow "better" than baseline.

My point is that you cannot change the chemistry in your body without affecting other systems. Your body is a closed refinery. When you turn a dial here, another one goes off-kilter. When you add a few drams of X, then Y is out of balance.

So choosing to enhance your chemistry to affect your alertness or smartness, however that is quantifiable , will affect other things. Which is where my bank account comes in....


Jennifer

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Brutha

After reading that I won't try modafil until more research is done.

Skipping sleep is not how the drug is meant to be used.

Skipping sleep still incurs a sleep debt. Missing sleep for two years would definitely mess you up, which is just what happened.

People who misuse drugs like that give them a bad name. I am not thinking of using Provigil to get less sleep. I'm after better quality / more focused awake time.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

Ok, rabid point-makers, let's stick to the chemicals about which this thread was made: Drugs to "enhance" one's life.

If you read Dan's article, you will see that his point is that this drug can apparently be used, not to cure a disease, but to make a normal person somehow "better" than baseline.

My point is that you cannot change the chemistry in your body without affecting other systems. Your body is a closed refinery. When you turn a dial here, another one goes off-kilter. When you add a few drams of X, then Y is out of balance.

Any 'enhancement' drugs disturb people. Drugs are socially Ok to bring yourself back to normal, but not to make yourself supernormal.

I addressed the trade-offs in my original post.

Drugs like Ritalin and Adderall are trade-offs. You're definitely giving up a part of yourself. Specifically, you're giving up the part of yourself that has an overwhelming curiosity and wonderment about life. You're trading it in for a very narrow, focused perspective for a few hours. And during that time, and because of that focus, you tend to get a lot done.

Jenn, you didn't answer my question about the other silver bullets. I'm curious about what you think of the brain pacemaker.

[Jennihul]

I've never heard of the brain pacemaker which pretty much sums up it's current usefulness.

Contact lenses do not affect your body chemistry. Nor do cochlear implants. Nor do TCP-IP protocols.

I don't take antibiotics unless my life depends on it. Luckily, I rarely need them. I don't take vaccines either unless the disease is so virulent and the effects so heinous as to threaten life immediately before my immune system can do it's job. Rabies would be an example.

Jennifer

[Brutha]

People who misuse drugs like that give them a bad name. I am not thinking of using Provigil to get less sleep. I'm after better quality / more focused awake time.

Before I have only heard of provigil in relationtomaking people sleepless.

Without knowing what provigil does exactly (for which you need more research) it is difficult to decide which uses are abuse and which are okay.
But feel free to try it.

[Doku]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

My job as a healthcare practioner will always be secure as long as people continue to seek chemicals to enhance their lives.

Better living through chemistry!

Seriously 'though, I think that Provigil is one of those drugs that, if monitored properly, can work wonders for those that need it. Unfortunately, because of what it does, it is a drug that is primed and ready for massive abuse.

Also, you might want to look into Adrafinil. It is the precursor to Modafinil, and is not regulated. It is a less potent drug that needs to be built over time in your system. Modafinil is essentially concentrated Adrafinil.

--Doku