Is meat making me sick?

[Bitsy]

I have to provide a little background for the setting of this question:

I have a rare metabolic disorder called PKU (phenylketonuria). It is a disorder in which my body lacks the enzyme to process the amino acid phenylalanine (phe), or else the enzyme is not working properly. The result is that unless I follow a certain diet, I perpetually have excessive amounts of phe in my blood. The PKU diet is awful, more restrictive than any sort of food diet, like a raw-food diet, and it includes a putrid tasting, exceedingly expensive powder that makes up the core of the diet and it becomes very difficult to eat enough calories in a day. The powder contains all amino acids in protein except for phenylalanine. The diet eliminates all meat and most dairy products and flour products. (I can eat spoonfuls of sugar and fat until my heart's content, bleh.)

Now the symptoms:

I have suffered from severe dizziness, nausea and fatigue episodes, such that I can't even move. I have to remain lying down and still. If I even turn my head on the pillow, it induces a feeling of vomiting. I used to think these episodes were caused by my not following my diet, but this past January I saw the possibility of a connection between my eating meat and the dizziness/episodes.

I have been off the diet for nearly a year because I spent 7 months in a developing country and wasn't eating much meat--only European canned tuna--because of the unsanitary conditions and, frankly, the way they hung the severed sheep body parts, dripping with blood, out in front of their shops was enough to make most normal people stop eating meat. During those 7 months, I never experienced any dizziness, not even the underlying perpetual mild dizziness that I have experienced in the past. [Note: I have never experienced a severe dizziness and nausea episode while on the diet, however, I don't perpetually experience such episodes while not on the diet]

At the end of December, I had to leave the country and I went to my brother's. The first thing I noticed there was their diet, which I had to start eating according to. Basically, to me, it looked like they were eating meat on top of meat, and not just light meat, like poultry or fish, but heavy red meat. Anyway, within a few days of my arrival there, I felt suddenly an inexplicable depression or emotional heaviness came over me and I knew it was the meat, even if I wasn't eating much meat (I lost weight there, I really didn't like all the meat). After some more time, I felt my perpetual mild dizziness return, and I made a connection between the meat and my dizziness, not just between my dizziness and my PKU diet. After 7 months not on my PKU diet and no dizziness, suddenly I'm eating what is, for me, a lot of meat, and my dizziness comes back...

There seems to be a connection between the dizziness and nausea I experience and eating meat. I don't know. Yesterday, though, and continuing to today, I had such an awful and long episode of nausea and dizziness that starting yesterday I am not going to eat any more meat and see if the episodes stop. Really, I spent all of yesterday lying down in bed and feeling like I was going to throw up any minute. Right now I am still very dizzy, but thankfully the nausea part went away. When I'm in a life situation where I can go back on my PKU diet, I will do that too.

I just wondered if anyone has any knowledge about meat protein that could somehow make it worse for my condition than vegetable protein, or if it is different somehow?

I will see, anyway, if not eating meat will stop these episodes. (I had had another episode some weeks ago. That episode didn't last nearly as long as this one is lasting.)

[Joeschmoe]

Some here will disagree with me but I know of studies that link increased consumption of animal protein with various diseases. Vegetable protein intake does not have the same correlation.

I do not know, since i am not a doctor, if it is a factor in your particular symptoms.

[Rose of Cairo]

There's a simple way to find out: eat no meat for three months, and see how you are. Eat meat again for three months, and see how you are. Compare. Done.

I know some here will disagree with me, but I feel physically crappy when I eat animal products. You have to find out for yourself though.

Btw, I'm glad you're back Bitsy

[SomebodySomewhere]

Here's a good way to test this out: GO SEE A DOCTOR!

[Jennihul]

I'm maybe not reading thoroughly enough but you are on a diet where you aren't supposed to eat meat and you are now eating meat and it's making you feel bad and you are asking why?



Jennifer

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

I'm maybe not reading thoroughly enough but you are on a diet where you aren't supposed to eat meat and you are now eating meat and it's making you feel bad and you are asking why?

No, I am supposed to be on a diet where I'm not supposed to eat phenylalanine.

Here's a good way to test this out: GO SEE A DOCTOR!

No, seeing a doctor is not a good way to test this out, but thanks for yelling it at me.

Btw, I'm glad you're back Bitsy

Thanks Rose, I'm trying to hide from someone, so shhh, ok?

[SomebodySomewhere]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

No, seeing a doctor is not a good way to test this out, but thanks for yelling it at me.

Right right, not seeing a trained professional, asking a bunch of anonymous people on the internet is a much better choice. Of course! makes so much sense! This is your health! why are you screwing around with it?

[veranadine]

Hi Bitsy.

I cannot say much about your specific disease. But what I can share is my own experiences with meat before going vegetarian.

I did not choose to go vegetarian due to any outstanding love of furry creatures but due to the reactions that I was feeling when consuming meat.

My energy was so fluctuating.

Chicken made me depressed and weepy for about 36 hours after I consumed it.

Pork made me feel dizzy and nauseous almost immediately after eating it.

Beef made me so angry and tried and made everything in life seem negative and impossible for days after eating it.

I don't know if the same would be true for anyone else but I know that this is how these animal products effected MY energy.

After several 30-day trials, in which I removed various things, I eventually came to a place where I do not eat meat and also do not eat dairy. Eggs are the only animal product still in my regular diet.

It may be difficult to do a 30-day no meat trial, especially with your restrictive diet, as getting a grasp of what to eat can be hard in the beginning. But my secondary blog has several tasty vegetarian recipes that you could try.

Good luck! And, though I am no big fan of western medicine, I might suggest having a full dietary work-up done by an eastern Ayurvedic doctor, if you can locate one.

Blessings,

Vera Nadine

[Jennihul]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

No, I am supposed to be on a diet where I'm not supposed to eat phenylalanine.

Sorry, it must have been this paragraph that confused me...

The PKU diet is awful, more restrictive than any sort of food diet, like a raw-food diet, and it includes a putrid tasting, exceedingly expensive powder that makes up the core of the diet and it becomes very difficult to eat enough calories in a day. The powder contains all amino acids in protein except for phenylalanine. The diet eliminates all meat and most dairy products and flour products.

Jennifer

[Joeschmoe]

What is Not Included in a Low Phenylalanine Food Pattern?
Foods that contain large amounts of phe must be eliminated from a low phe diet. These foods are high protein foods, such as milk, dairy products, meat, fish, chicken, eggs, beans, and nuts. These foods cause high blood phe levels for people with PKU.

So yes, meat will make you sick. It's funny ot me that they make you eat only healthy foods for this diet. Fruits,vegetables, starchy vegetables, and grains. But then they give you that other junk, because that diet is supposedly "deficient."

It's funny because that's the stuff i eat everyday, and lots of other people do too. It is the basis of a Low-fat vegan diet.

Take a Look at drmcdougall.com for more information on this diet. It is by no means deficient! There should be no need for any supplemental, processed additive.

Check out this diet someone on the board put together. It surpasses all RDA's for all nutrients except for B12 (unless of course you pull you organic produce directly out of the ground, and don't wash it very well )

8 Cups Sweet Potato
1 Cup Cooked Collard
1 Cup Cooked Kale
1 Cup Adzuki Beans
1/2 Cup Blueberries
1/2 Cup Mango
1 oz Nut/Seeds (4 tsp flax/1 tsp brazil/1tsp sunflower)

At 2000 calories it surpasses every single vitamin, mineral, carotenoid, etc known that we have a DRI/RDA for except for B12. It is 8% fat.

(all numbers based on the USDA SR20 as accessed thru the CRON-O-Meter, version 0.9.3)

The Omega 6 is 5.7
The Omega 3 is 2.8

All of that is on your diet. And it sounds really good to me. Loosely based on an Okinawan diet.

Edit - This is not medical advice and you would have to check on the nuts and beans with a doctor. And you really shouldn't be taking any advice from a discussion board, without running it by a doctor first.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

Sorry, it must have been this paragraph that confused me...




Jennifer

The point is that all foods except fat and sugar contain phenylalanine, so why should I be able to eat other food without getting sick, but then get sick when I eat meat?

And to Joeschmoe: the diet I have to follow is highly deficient. I would starve to death without the yucky powder. I am allowed to eat only 350 mg of phe per day to maintain normal phe levels. Just a very small amount of sweet potatoes contains too much phe for me. I can't eat much normal food at all without surpassing 350 mg of phe. To give you an idea, one medium-sized egg contains about 350 mg of phe. Nuts and seeds are almost entirely out of the question. Broccoli, which I can eat a small amount of and douse it with butter for extra calories, contains .86 mg of phe per gram (yes, I have to weigh all of my food and then calculate the amount of phe I eat every day, and also calories to make sure I eat enough). Corn has over 1 mg of phe per gram. Things like lettuce are out of the question, because they are low-calory, high-phe. When I'm on the diet, it's like a game to eat enough calories every day without exceeding 350 mg of phe. And that, even though the powder gives me 864 calories every day.

The point is, the only food I could eat freely is fat and sugar, and that's just gross (although I have to admit, the US has a wonderful vast array of all-sugar candy , but I haven't been in the US when on the diet). Vegetables and fruit, most all food is far too high in phe for me to eat more than a small-medium quantity of. If I eat 350 mg of phe in sweet potatoes, for example, plus the yucky diet powder, I would still be many hundreds of calories short of 1950, which is about how much I should eat a day. And you only do this diet under the supervision of a PKU specialist and a PKU dietician. It's highly specialized, you don't do it by yourself, and they take regular blood tests to monitor the phe levels.

Anyway, I have stopped eating meat now and I'll see how it goes. I'm still dizzy, but the nausea ended late on Sunday.

Edit - This is not medical advice and you would have to check on the nuts and beans with a doctor. And you really shouldn't be taking any advice from a discussion board, without running it by a doctor first.

Don't worry, I know the diet and the doctors and what they say.

[ithaca]

My dear bitsy,
I joined this forum specfically to reply to your post. having stumbled upon it, i felt compelled to respond to this. I am not a doctor, but it is precisely these kind of problems that encouraged me to study clinical nutrition. What i want to say is that while my problem is not nearly as serious as yours (autoimmune), i know what a restricted diet can do to your entire life. It affects your mental state (psychological stress), your relationships and interactions and even the way you identify yourself.
What advice i can give you is that you must never and i mean NEVER stop searching for a treatment or a cure. Your illness is genetic, which makes it difficult to treat, but you most definitely are not being propely nourished and this leads to other problems. That is why i will suggest a very special man, whom i have the utmost respect and faith in. Try to look up Patrick Holford and if possible get hold of someone who is trained by him. Furthermore, become completely educated about your illness - why it happened, what causes it and what treatment is available.
Currently there is research surrounding stem cell treatment for this condition, and it may be worth contacting professionals involved in this research. Join medical journals such as Pubmed and get proactive in finding your own treatment. Doctors are wonderful and they have diagnosed you, but now you need to find someone who can help you derive a more substantial nutritional therapy. This is also precisely why people find themselves searching for alternative treatments and looking towards herbalism and homeopathy - beacuse traditional medicine has effectivley failed them.
Look for help in all possible avenues, and don't stop.
Look towards the following avenues:
Clinical nutrition
Clinical ecology
By all means attempt to contact Patrick Holford.
If you need anything at all...let me know.

[Conan Stevens]

Straight to the point - don't ask these people. Don't ask me either.

Search Google for the name of your disorder and see if you can find others with this problem. I was researching low protein diets and came across a mother who put a website up with a lot of recipes that tasted good and avoided protein as much as possible due to her son's condition

Now that is the sort of person you should be looking for to speak with, and don't forget usenet and the 'older' internet areas that might have special interest groups