the irony of a raw vegan diet

[Somi]

Hi guys

I have a question for those of you raw fooders out there and indeed Steve might want to consider posting an article about this at some point?!

I live in Scotland and I wonder how you guys might justify using bananas and many other fruit that are not suitable for such a climate in colder areas?! I mean this both health-wise and also considering the fact that the mass production and importing bananas is not cecessrily a good idea, given the amount energy that is used for importing them! A raw food diet is meant to be one that betters not only the health state of the host him/herself but also supposedly it should be better for the planet etc.

Also I understand that it meant to be about simplicity and keep one satisfied but the irony of it is that everytime I make an attempt to go raw I end up eating more and actually putting on weight because I seem to be hungry all the time no matter how much I eat! Unless one only eat less dense fruit which is impossible for me as I do heavy weight training!

Any thoughts anyone? So there are two issues here 1- Consumption of tropical fruit in cold climates! 2- Ending up eating more and gaining weight on a raw diet.

cheers
somi

[PianoManGidley]

I always thought the irony of vegan diets was that no animal product is supposed to be used in the entire production of the food...but what about the manure used as fertilizer?

[Joeschmoe]

Well, that's interesting. If you can eat local, vegan, wholefoods in Scotland then you will beat raw fooders. But if you eat meat, eggs, dairy etc importing fruit a couple thousand miles is a drop in the bucket compared to your impact. Considering that animal products require so much land for feed, transportation, and processing. And in Scotland you can get a lot of produce from spain, and that not very far at all.

Eating fruit from tree's even far away trees leaves trees intact, and topsoil, maintains habitat, and leaves a whole lot of carbon scrubbing trees behind after you harvest. Since fruit needs no processing, the only carbon cost is transport and refrigeration (if required). There is also a lot less packaging and a no cooking involved, which has it's impact.

Now, it's not perfect and people should do their best to buy fair trade, sustainable agriculture, and even local whenever possible. Because there are problems with tropical agriculture that need to be addressed. But I'll get fruit from central America any day compared to meat that was fed from cleared rain forest.

Thanks for the insightful question.

[Trezker]

Yeah that's interesting thinking.
Meat production is definitely all waste. Huge amounts of land growing stuff for cows could be used for human food directly. The handling of animals requires more transporting and machinery than fruit. Also, the millions of animals that farts greenhouse gases. If we weren't using livestock, the population of wild animals would not fill up the gap. Cows also fart a lot more than wild animals I think since they're bred to produce milk all year long in amounts that are just ridiculous.

Fruit and vegetables then. It's just harvest and transport. It may grow further from you. But it's rather direct transport. I don't think the environmental impact is worth mentioning.

[MasterD]

Originally Posted by Trezker

Yeah that's interesting thinking.
Meat production is definitely all waste. Huge amounts of land growing stuff for cows could be used for human food directly. The handling of animals requires more transporting and machinery than fruit. Also, the millions of animals that farts greenhouse gases. If we weren't using livestock, the population of wild animals would not fill up the gap. Cows also fart a lot more than wild animals I think since they're bred to produce milk all year long in amounts that are just ridiculous.

Fruit and vegetables then. It's just harvest and transport. It may grow further from you. But it's rather direct transport. I don't think the environmental impact is worth mentioning.

Sometimes I am just total astonished when a pound of chicken is cheaper than a pound of grapes.

[Somi]

interesting ideas, but I also what i can say is that you've got to have lived here and tried it. I tried to go raw several times and the longest I lasted ws 6 weeks which is still a good record for this climate.

I'm goin to try until I find a sustainable way of doing it here. But I have to say you will feel like you're freezing! A raw diet decreases the body's tempreture!

Also it impacts my weight training. I'm preparing for a figure competition just now!

In fact I hope Steve spots this thread as I was hoping to ask him if he noticed any muscle loss eating raw! Because when I went raw I definitly noticed a dcrease in muscle size but I don't think it was loss of muscle tissue but muscle glycogen that was lost!


Anyway cheers guys, looking forward to hopefully hear some more insights!

Cheers
somi

[Joeschmoe]

Most people only get cold if they under eat calories. You have to really step up the volume of food.

[MasterD]

I am not cold anymore on the raw diet. Quite warm actually.

[hkalchemy]

I have considered trying a vegan diet but always get put off - it must require a great deal of effort and thought. Is all that time and energy really well spent?

[Rose of Cairo]

Hey Somi,

about consuming tropical fruit in a cold climate: I've heard that we shouldn't do that, because tropical fruits contain a substance that partially prevents the body from generating vitamin D, which is not a problem in tropical areas with lots of sun, but is a problem in cold climates. But I don't know if that's true.

One way or another, we're not forced to eat tropical fruit on a raw diet. We can eat apples, pears, cherries and other european fruits.

about ending up eating more: you didn't say that, but from what you wrote I'm assuming that you eat little greens. When I do that, I have a feeling that what I eat is kinda never enough and I need tremendous amounts of food. But when I stuff myself with greens every day, I don't have this problem. So I would say, maybe try eating lots of greens.

Greens also contain plenty of protein, so that wouldn't be a problem with your weight lifting.

[Joeschmoe]

Originally Posted by hkalchemy

I have considered trying a vegan diet but always get put off - it must require a great deal of effort and thought. Is all that time and energy really well spent?

Straight vegan? What energy and though does it require? Just eat whatever whole fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, grains and beans you want.

[Somi]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Hey Somi,

about consuming tropical fruit in a cold climate: I've heard that we shouldn't do that, because tropical fruits contain a substance that partially prevents the body from generating vitamin D, which is not a problem in tropical areas with lots of sun, but is a problem in cold climates. But I don't know if that's true.

One way or another, we're not forced to eat tropical fruit on a raw diet. We can eat apples, pears, cherries and other european fruits.

about ending up eating more: you didn't say that, but from what you wrote I'm assuming that you eat little greens. When I do that, I have a feeling that what I eat is kinda never enough and I need tremendous amounts of food. But when I stuff myself with greens every day, I don't have this problem. So I would say, maybe try eating lots of greens.

Greens also contain plenty of protein, so that wouldn't be a problem with your weight lifting.

Sure I agree with you, Rose of Cairo, in fact the fruit that I crave most are pears, apples too.

Will up the veggies then I love carrots and eat a lot of them and lettuce as well

cheers

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Somi

Will up the veggies then I love carrots and eat a lot of them and lettuce as well

Hi Somi, I meant greens, not root vegetables like carrots. Not saying you should not eat carrots but what really helps me, much more than eating root vegetables or non-sweet fruits, is eating greens, like spinach, chard, rocket or field salad. You can mix them with lettuce to have a great salad.

I posted a little list of greens here if you're interested.

I'm sure eating more greens would help you as well

[Honeywith4bees]

Originally Posted by Somi

I'm goin to try until I find a sustainable way of doing it here. But I have to say you will feel like you're freezing! A raw diet decreases the body's tempreture!

I was eating mostly raw until my acupuncturist advised me not to. He said that my organs were "cold and damp" and that the food I was eating was aggravating the condition.

Another thing about eating imported fruit from South America, I've read that countries like Chile still use chemicals like DDT on their crops, chemicals that have been banned in the US but needed to be sold off by the companies that produced them so that they wouldn't have to take a loss. Fruit like grapes, have been hybridized to be seedless over the years, because consumers are annoyed by the seeds, thus creating a grape that is very thin skinned. The thin skin makes the grape able to "soak in" the pesticides, and there is no way to just wash it off. Eating grapes imported from Chile, is probably one of the worst raw food choices.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Honeywith4bees

. Eating grapes imported from Chile, is probably one of the worst raw food choices.

Ouch. I love eating grapes and eat them almost everyday.

[Technicolor Tim]

I second the comment on greens. Greens are amazing. I do a number of things to stay healthy, but greens seem to have made the biggest difference.

Oh, and I eat a 100% raw diet too, btw. Thank God for real food, took me over thrity years to get it, but now I do. It rocks. It's the way most of us will be eating in the future, I think. Once you try a well balanced raw diet you don't ever want to go back. I didn't know how bad my health was until I started eating live foods and my body started functioning properly again. It rocks.

[Somi]

Rose of cairo thanks for that, it's cool!

Honeywith it's interesting what you say. I do find eating raw difficult but somehow despite feeling cold I really like the feeling I get from it.

Tchnicolour could I ask what is your view of a well balanced raw diet? I'm still trying to figure out. I personally don't do well on too many fruits but also I need to make sure I get enough calories. I don't like sprouts very much so that leaves me with nut and seeds but I think there is limit to how much nuts and seeds one can eat. I think more than 100 grams a day is really not a good idea. My skin breaks out if I eat them more than a 100 grams a day.

I see what you mean about greens and I do eat them but how about calories? it seems like most calory dence raw foods are produced hot climates!

BTW, I do need my calories due to weight lifting. I'm a figure competitor.

[Joeschmoe]

On eating fruit for calories, have you tried lowering your fat level dramatically? I mean like going for a while with no nuts, seeds, or avocados. It is only temporary but many people acclimate to fruit better if they cut out the fatty foods.

[Rose of Cairo]

Why do you need so many calories as a weight lifter? Don't you need mostly protein to build muscle mass? There is plenty of protein in greens. Plus, you could add some high quality cold pressed oil to the greens and eat them as a salad. This way you would have more calories and need less fruit.

Just an idea.

[Somi]

No Fat calories aren't very efficent for weight lifting! You need the kind of calories that will fill the muscle glycogen. Usually you would get that from starches if you weren't eating raw! But if you eat raw, bananas are the best option as far I've learnt but being in a cold climate, I'm looking for an alternative.

You need the calories to give you energy to lift, heavy! Fats don't do that efficiantly! Protein for buiding muscle is a different story, it has nothing to do with one's daily energy levels.

On another note, droping fats to digest fruit better, I shall try that, but often I don't eat fruit and fats together. I have fats in my last meal. But I'll try not using fats at all for a while and see how I get on.

cheers
s

[Joeschmoe]

Let us know how it goes.

There is more support and reading on Vegan & Vegetarian Recipes, Articles, Health Resource in the "raw and sport" catagory that is moderated by Dr Graham. There are endurance bikers(he just won a 24 hour mountain bike race on a low-fat raw diet), personal trainers, and every day people there who have lots of experience.

Remember to eat lots of fruit!

[Rose of Cairo]

And lots of greeeeens!

[Somi]

Ah this is so cool guys, I'll just check it out

[JoeGoldfarb]

the amount of energy required to ship fruit from brazil for instance is less than the energy used in "creating" a steak.