How many think cholesterol is fat?

[Cantando]

Me for a start. In my ignorance, I thought cholesterol was, basically, just fat.
I didn't know that low fat foods can still contain cholesterol
I had my level checked recently and it was 5.7, which is at the high end of the normal range.
Here is some info about cholesterol, which I hope may be useful to some of you.

Why is high cholesterol a problem?
The main risk associated with high cholesterol is cardiovascular disease (CVD). This includes diseases of the heart and blood vessels. High cholesterol causes blood vessels to become narrowed with fatty deposits called plaques. This can result in heart attacks, strokes and blood vessel problems.

Eat Less High-Cholesterol Food
Dietary cholesterol is a waxy, fat-like substance found in foods that come from animals. Although it is not the same as saturated fat, dietary cholesterol also can raise your blood cholesterol level. Therefore, it is important to eat less food that is high in cholesterol. While cholesterol is needed for normal body function, your liver makes enough for your body's needs so that you don't need to eat any cholesterol at all.

Dietary Cholesterol in Food
Cholesterol is found in eggs, dairy products, meat, poultry, fish, and shellfish. Egg yolks and organ meats (liver, kidney, sweetbread, brain) are particularly rich sources of cholesterol. High-fat dairy products, meat, and poultry all have similar amounts of cholesterol. Fish generally has less cholesterol, but shellfish varies in cholesterol content. Foods of plant origin, like fruits, vegetables, grains, cereals, nuts, and seeds, contain no cholesterol.

Since cholesterol is not a fat, you can find it in both high-fat and low-fat animal foods. In other words, even if a food is low in fat, it may be high in cholesterol. For instance, organ meats, like liver, are low in fat, but are high in cholesterol.
Because many foods such as dairy products and some meats are high in both saturated fat and cholesterol, it is important to limit the amount of these high-fat foods that you eat, choosing lean meats and low-fat dairy products whenever possible.

Remember: Organ meats and egg yolks are high in cholesterol. High-fat dairy products, meat, and poultry have similar amounts of cholesterol. Some fish has less. Foods of plant origin like fruits, vegetables, vegetable oils, grains, cereals, nuts, and seeds contain no cholesterol.
Substitute Low GI Carbohydrates for Saturated Fat
Breads, pasta, rice, cereals, dried peas and beans, fruits, and vegetables are good sources of complex carbohydrates (starch and fiber). Low-GI varieties are excellent substitutes for foods that are high in saturated fat and cholesterol. The type of fiber found in foods such as oat and barley bran, some fruits like apples and oranges, and in some dried beans may even help reduce blood cholesterol levels. For details about low-GI foods, see GI Diet.

Contrary to popular belief, high-carbohydrate foods (like pasta, rice, potatoes) are lower in calories than foods high in fat. In addition, they are good sources of vitamins and minerals. What adds calories to these foods is the addition of butter, rich sauces, whole milk, or cream, which are high in fat, especially saturated fat. It is important not to add these to the high-carbohydrate foods you are substituting for foods high in fat.
Remember: Foods that are high in complex carbohydrates, if eaten plain, are low in saturated fat and cholesterol as well as being good sources of vitamins, minerals, and fiber.

Maintain a Desirable Weight
People who are overweight frequently have higher blood cholesterol levels than people of desirable weight.
You can reduce your weight by eating fewer calories and by increasing your physical activity on a regular basis. By reducing the amount of fat in your diet, you will be cutting down on the richest source of calories. Substituting foods that are high in complex carbohydrates for high-fat foods will also help you lose weight, because many high-carbohydrate foods contain little fat and thus fewer calories.

Fat Contains Twice the Calories of Carbs and Protein
Fat has more than twice the calories as the same amount of protein or carbohydrate. Protein and carbohydrate both have about 4 calories in each gram, but all fat-saturated, polyunsaturated or monounsaturated fat - has 9 calories in each gram. Thus, foods that are high in fat are high in calories. And all calories count. So, to maintain a desirable weight, it is important to eat no more calories than your body needs. (To find your desirable weight, see Body Mass Index)

Remember: To achieve or maintain a desirable weight, your caloric intake must not exceed the number of calories your body burns.

[escapee]

Personally, I'm not too worried about cholesterol from natural food, What i do worry is the refined Carbs and the oxidized cholesterol ( DEEP FRIED EGG AND BACON ) from the typical SAD diet .

We all know that refined carbs and a lack of other nutrients contribute to the expression of Diabetes. A chronic high blood sugar will cause glycation of LDL Cholesterol ( Glycated cholesterol - sugar molecular attached to cholesterol structure ). This kind of cholesterol is highly susceptible to oxidation and when that happens, there will be war in your arteries because your body cannot use such oxidized lipid.

I can also imagine a person with high cholesterol level and DIabetes at the same time is at high risk of heart disease. The reason is you have more cholesterol at risk of Glycation - > oxidation . On the other hand, a person with high cholesterol level but with normal sugar level and a proper Low GI and good fat diet will not have such problem.

A low LDL cholesterol has been linked to cancer, Parkinson, depression, low vitamin D status and etc, so be very careful with all these recommendations that you need a low cholesterol level to achieve optimal health.

Low LDL cholesterol linked to cancer - Google Search

The benefit of high cholesterol - Google Search

[Old Soul]

I have really high cholesterol, I admit I eat the rich mans diet... however the good thing is I did a heart stress test, where you run really super fast on a tread mill then jump up on a bed, and they ultrasound your heart...... and the test results were really good

so in dealing with the high cholesterol, I am running and making changes to my diet, However I have to tell you , for me it is alot easier sticking to a fitness program of running a min of 6 miles 2 or 3 times a week , then the actual change of diet... I find this part really hard..........

wonder why we crave such foods that are so bad for us? I have always been this way

[Joeschmoe]

Carbohydrate myths,
Protein myths,
Low-fat myth,
Low-carb myth,
etc etc.

The truth is that Cholesterol has been known for many years to be a leading indicator of heart disease. That is no myth. It has also been shown that lowering cholesterol levels decreases your risk. This is not a myth. I'm sue people here can quote studies that support all kinds of crazy idea, but the medical community doesn't work based on one or two or even 10 studies. It goes on the preponderance of the evidence. A few studies to not negate thousands.

Just to let you know the kind of evidence and rhetoric that is being used by the Cholesterol Myth proponents.

For decades, enormous human and financial resources have been wasted on the cholesterol campaign, more promising research areas have been neglected, producers and manufacturers of animal food all over the world have suffered economically, and millions of healthy people have been frightened and badgered into eating a tedious and flavorless diet or into taking potentially dangerous drugs for the rest of their lives. As the scientific evidence in support of the cholesterol campaign is non-existent, we consider it important to stop it as soon as possible.

Taken from the The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics website. Why would people who are worried about health care so much about the economic status of animal food producers and manufacturers? Why would they say a diet without meat is "flavorless"?

[escapee]

I believe the lipid hypothesis should be made obsolete by now.

Oxidized LDL cholesterol and Glycated LDL cholesterol are two new important keywords worthy of further research. I believe others ( Virus, bacterias, low minerals status, low antioxidant status, high stress/ hypertension and etc) are equally important.


Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

Abstract
Atherosclerosis is the major cause of death in the industrialised world. Though much work on the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis points to oxidised low density lipoprotein (;LDL) as a key aeitological feature in the generation of the atherosclerotic plaque, the nature of this oxidised LDL in vivo remains an enigma. We argue here that glycated LDL shows many of the characteristics attributed to oxidised LDL and may be the source of the latter in vivo. These include the increased uptake and impaired degradation of glycated LDL by macrophages and the stimulation of transendothelial chemotaxis of monocytes, cytokine secretion and platelet aggregation. We hypothesise that the covalent binding of glycated LDL to the endothelial cell wall may result in the formation of the early atherosclerotic lesion of the fatty streak and that apolipoprotein E may mediate the physiological clearance of glycated moieties. The proposed role of glycation in the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis would

explain its high incidence among diabetics and the contentious epidemiological and experimental correlations between dietary sugar and atherosclerosis.

Glycated LDL = Sugar molecule attached to LDL Cholesterol .

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/bu...hp&oref=slogin

As proven with the following trial, Lowering cholesterol alone will not help to reduce the risk of heart disease. The reason is you cannot lower enough the amount of defective(oxidized/glycated) cholesterol delivered to the system.

A clinical trial of Zetia, a cholesterol-lowering drug prescribed to about 1 million people a week, failed to show that the drug has any medical benefits, Merck and Schering-Plough said on Monday.

The results will add to the growing concern over Zetia and Vytorin, a drug that combines Zetia with another cholesterol medicine in a single pill. About 60 percent of patients who take Zetia do so in the form of Vytorin, which combines Zetia with the cholesterol drug Zocor.

While Zetia lowers cholesterol by 15 percent to 20 percent in most patients, no trial has ever shown that it can reduce heart attacks and strokes — or even that it reduces the growth of the fatty plaques in arteries that can cause heart problems.

“This is as bad a result for the drug as anybody could have feared,” Dr. Nissen said. Millions of patients may be taking a drug that has no benefits for them, raising their risk of heart attacks and exposing them to potential side effects,

[Joeschmoe]

Well, since you made it really big and bold i guess that makes you right. Did i ever say anything about lowering cholesterol? I said that it is proven as one of the biggest indicators of heart disease risk. And we all know how to prevent heart disease.

Heart disease prevention: 5 strategies keep your heart healthy - MayoClinic.com

Don't smoke,
Be active,
Eat a Heart healthy diet,

Consistently eating a diet rich in fruits, vegetables, whole grains and low-fat dairy products can help protect your heart. Legumes, low-fat sources of protein and certain types of fish also can reduce your risk of heart disease.

Lose weight,
And go see the doctor and get your cholesterol and blood pressure checked.

Nowhere in there does it say to take a drug to prevent heart disease. But cholesterol is probably the most important indicator, not a myth.

I'm not interested in having an argument here. I'm no expert and i somehow doubt you are. I just find it interesting that people on extreme diets have to make everything a myth for their world-view to work.

[Trezker]

Well, I think it's really simple to keep a good diet. You should jsut eat what tastes best, except for the manufactured stuff like candy and fast food...

Apples, bananas and other fruits are so tasty even candy seems bland. I grew up in a household where potatoes and meat was the good stuff and candy was the bad stuff so I was programmed to the idea that good stuff tastes bad and bad stuff tastes good. I was fooled because fruit was never a big part of my diet.

I was constantly served meat in some form when I grew up. Fish, cow, pig and wild meat... (bird was extremely rare though, never ate chicken in my home from what I can recall)

The best meat was of course from wild animals, they'd been out in the forest eating good stuff all their lives... But still, I would've probably liked good food a lot more if my family was vegan. Meat is really disgusting if you think about it.

[escapee]

It's the oxidized LDL Cholesterol that should be given attention. The old school lipid hypothesis is done, please dump it and advance your knowledge a little further

As i have said earlier, the low fat diet recommended by old school will continue to hurt people around the world. When you consume a low fat diet, you will also lower your intake on the heart healthy Omega 3, Omega 6 ( for cholesterol esterification ) and virus killing saturated fat automatically. Don't say i do not warn you.

Do you know what's one of the most powerful anti blood clotting and vasodilator molecule of mankind ( beside aspirin ?)- it's Prostacyclin, and it's made by omega 6 fatty acids or omega 3 fatty acids . ( THERE ARE BOTH ESSENTIAL FATS )

Oxidized or Native Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol: Which Is More Important in Atherogenesis? -- Mehta, 10.1016/j.jacc.2006.06.001 -- Journal of the American College of Cardiology

A number of studies suggest that the oxidized low-density lipoprotein (ox-LDL) is a more potent pro-atherosclerotic stimulus than the native unmodified LDL.

Endothelium exposed to ox-LDL develops early signs of injury, such as apoptosis (16). The ox-LDL decreases the gene expression of endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) and enhances generation of reactive oxygen species (17). The ox-LDL itself activates inflammatory cells and facilitates release of growth factors from monocytes/macrophages (18,19). Platelet eNOS activity is diminished in the presence of ox-LDL, and these cells demonstrate intense activation in response to small amounts of thrombin (20). The ox-LDL also increases formation of metalloproteinases, thus setting the stage for rupture of a soft plaque. Recent studies have shown that ox-LDL stimulates expression of CD40/CD40L in endothelial cells and release cytokines (21). Other studies have shown that ox-LDL upregulates the expression of various components of the renin-angiotensin system, such as angiotensin-converting enzyme and angiotensin II type 1 receptors in endothelial and vascular smooth muscle cells (22,23). Most importantly, pathologic studies have shown accumulation of ox-LDL in the rupture-prone atherosclerotic plaque (24).

Yeah i think i should have reduced the size a little smaller but then ... i wanted everybody to see the truth conveniently.

[Joeschmoe]

Oh yes. The truth! Everything is wrong, everyone is wrong, but you. Sorry, now I know and will go bury my head in the sand.

Oh wait, you are wrong. All of the studies you are pointing to are in relation to Diabetes. People with hyperglycemia are at increased higher risk of hear disease for the reasons you pointed out.

But guess what, the more LDL you have the more will oxidize at normal blood sugar levels (which most people have low-fat and low-carb). Also guess what has the highest concentration of anti-oxidants...

Fruits,vegetables,legumes,nuts, and seeds.

Guess what eating these things will also do...

Lower your ldl

Oh yeah, we should go tell the longest living people with the lowest rates of heart disease that their low-fat lifestyles are going to blow up on them any day now. They obviously aren't getting enough omega-3 and 6 and are all going to drop dead any day now. We've been waiting thousands of years, but it's coming.

Btw- the proper amounts of omega-3 and 6 are available from low fat plant foods in the proper ratios(which is more important).

[escapee]

Are you seriously confused on the subject of fatty acids ? It's known that Nuts and seeds are high fat plant food , At least two third of the nuts' weight are composed of fats ( mostly essential fatty acids ).

Nutrition Facts and Information for Nuts, walnuts, english [Includes USDA commodity food A259, A257]

[Iamsuperman]

lol. The font in that quote is probably the biggest I've seen in this forum yet.

[Wildside]

To the OP's question of "How many think cholesterol is fat?"

I don't .

I pretty much agree with escapee on the cholesterol debate (big fonts and all).

I agree with this statement:
"Personally, I'm not too worried about cholesterol from natural food, What i do worry is the refined Carbs and the oxidized cholesterol ( DEEP FRIED EGG AND BACON ) from the typical SAD diet."

I also agree with this statement:
"Also guess what has the highest concentration of anti-oxidants...

Fruits,vegetables,legumes,nuts, and seeds"

I don't think you have to worry about cholesterol if you steer clear of refined carbs and grains. I get all my carbs from fresh fruits and veggies.

I have read so many articles/studies about people lowering their bad cholesterol LDL and raising the good cholesterol HDL just by cutting out refined carbs and grains, even if they eat high fat/protien they still lower bad C and raise good C.

[Jennihul]

I'll pipe in with no stats and no proof and no studies.

Dietary cholesterol has no effect on heart disease. Old news already based on newer studies.

It's not the cholesterol it's what your body does with what it has, cholesterol wise, regardless of numbers.

Diet affects heart disease through a complex inflammation process. THEN one's cholesterol begins to deposit in already inflammed arteries.

Trigycerides, one of the most dangerous substances with relation to heart disease, comes from carbs like breads and pasta, not cholesterol. One of the most significant effects of going on Atkins is that your triglycerides drop and your HDL raises.



Jennifer

[Joeschmoe]

Triglycerides are the form that most fat is in in food or in the body. Yes carbohydrates can be converted into tryglicerides, one reason we don't need verry much dietary fat beyond EFA intake.

What are triglycerides?

Triglycerides are the chemical form in which most fat exists in food as well as in the body. They're also present in blood plasma and, in association with cholesterol, form the plasma lipids.

Triglycerides in plasma are derived from fats eaten in foods or made in the body from other energy sources like carbohydrates. Calories ingested in a meal and not used immediately by tissues are converted to triglycerides and transported to fat cells to be stored. Hormones regulate the release of triglycerides from fat tissue so they meet the body's needs for energy between meals.

From Triglycerides

Again, you are going to have talk to those people who are eating all those heart damaging carbs and living to 100 whithout heart disease that they are doing it wrong.

Cholesterlol might not be a direct cause of heart disease, but like i said it is still an effective tool in determining risk.

[Joeschmoe]

Originally Posted by escapee

Are you seriously confused on the subject of fatty acids ? It's known that ]Nuts and seeds are high fat plant food] , At least two third of the nuts' weight are composed of fats ( mostly essential fatty acids ).

Nutrition Facts and Information for Nuts, walnuts, english [Includes USDA commodity food A259, A257]

What makes you think i didn't know this? These are plant foods, they have no cholesterol (which is what we are talking about here). Please point out where i said they weren't high in fat? I welcome a debate but i will not fight with you. Please point out any flaw you see in my reasoning or logic, but this sort of hostility without base will get you nowhere.

Ps- Please stop the big text thing. I read everything you write no matter how big it is. I don't think you extend then same curtousy.

[escapee]

Check below and many of your posts in this forums. You 're clearly advocating a low fat diet but then you failed to realize that nuts and seeds are very high in fats. Maybe you need to double check your writing before making a post.

Btw- the proper amounts of omega-3 and 6 are available from low fat plant foods in the proper ratios(which is more important).

Another point we didn't mention in the early post is most of cholesterol is made by the body itself to perform various cellular functions, some of the studies even suggest that it actually acts as an antioxidant or cut healer.

Also, the Trans fats from margarine ( with zero Cholesterol ), which is the trans version omega 6 fatty acids actually increases the LDL cholesterol level and yet as we know Trans fat is no cholesterol. Many studies link trans fatty acids to inflammation, cancer, heart disease and etc.

What we can draw from this is, natural un-oxidized cholesterol by itself is harmless and essential for mammals. If you don't have cholesterol , you are probably a bunch of walnuts or seeds. The problem only arises when people ( the food industry ) start refining and processing all these critical nutrients ( Carbs, fats & protein ) to make convenient food.

Trans fat comes from adding hydrogen to vegetable oil through a process called hydrogenation. Trans fats are more solid than oil, making them less likely to spoil. Using trans fats in the manufacturing of foods helps foods stay fresh longer, have a longer shelf life and have a less greasy feel.

Initially, trans fats were thought to be a healthy alternative to animal fats because they're unsaturated and come primarily from plant oils. However, in 1990 scientists made a startling discovery: Trans fats appeared to both increase LDL cholesterol and decrease HDL cholesterol. More studies

Food for Thought: Reevaluating Eggs' Cholesterol Risks, Science News Online, May 6, 2006

Moreover, the new study showed that when people ate three or more eggs per day their bodies made bigger LDL- and HDL-lipoprotein particles than when they ate no eggs. That's important because other recent studies have suggested that larger LDLs are less likely than small ones to enter artery walls and contribute their cholesterol load to artery-clogging plaque. Similarly, larger HDLs are more robust than smaller ones at hauling cholesterol out of the bloodstream and, ultimately, out of the body, notes the lead researcher for the new study, Christine M. Greene.

In fact, she notes, her team's accumulating data indicate that most people's bodies handle the cholesterol from eggs in a way that is least likely to harm the heart.

Cholesterol warnings have especially scared elderly people away from eggs, says Greene. And that's a shame, she adds, because eggs are an affordable and easy-to-eat source of high-quality protein for this population. The new findings, Greene says, contribute to a growing body of data suggesting that eggs shouldn't be construed "as a dietary evil."

The new study's findings do dovetail with large studies by other groups having no industrial financing. For instance, in 1999, Frank B. Hu of the Harvard School of Public Health and his colleagues reported no increased risk of coronary heart disease or stroke in men or women who ate more than one egg per day. The analysis compared diet and cardiovascular risk among nearly 38,000 participants of two long-running epidemiologic studies.

A Michigan State University analysis, reported a year later, analyzed the diets and blood-cholesterol data for more than 27,000 people—a representative cross-section of the U.S. population. It found that cholesterol was lower in people who ate more than four eggs per week than among people who eschewed eggs.

[escapee]

one reason we don't need verry much dietary fat beyond EFA intake.

All fats ( animal and plants ) are a mixture of saturated fats, mono-unsaturated fat and polyunsaturated fats. The veg coconut fats is comprised of 90% saturated fats and it's highly favorable for cooking ( similar to the good old butter ). You will never find a natural food that's 100% EFA or SAT FAt unless somebody from the industry refines it. So you confused me alot by saying we don't need very much dietary fats beyond EFA intake, not knowing that EFA is a type of dietary fatty acids.


Saturated fats and Essential fatty acids are both required to maintain the integrity of cellular membrane.

Your cellular membrane can't be made of EFA alone, as it will become "porous and leaky" if it does. Also, the absorption of fat soluble vitamins ( A, D, E K ) depends on "dietary fats".

[Cantando]

I’m confused now. I thought too much cholesterol blocked up the arteries. I know the liver produces its own and we do need some, but I read that smoking and alcohol can increase it as well. I smoke 10 to 15 cigarettes a week – do you think that would significantly increase the level? I’m glad eggs are coming out favourably now in research as I do like eating several a week.
I also read about some research showing that eating extra virgin olive oil and garlic can significantly reduce it. Is there any truth in that, or should we take it with a pinch of salt?

[Joeschmoe]

Cantado,

It might not be as simple as "it blocks you up," but it is the most important factor in heart disease that we know about. It is something you should have checked. Just know that all whole unprocessed foods will improve your cholesterol. Some people on try to impune it as a medical tool largely because it is not generally improved in the long run on low carb diets, however they mistake new reaserach on the sytems by which LDL leads to heart disease, for evidence against it. Eating animal foods increase your cholesterol (sometimes not if you lose weight) and so far there is no majic study that says that low-carb eater are imune to the effectes.

Now this can be taken wrong. This is not saying all meat is equally bad and all plant foods are equally good. There is a spectrum, fried bacon will hav emore impact than fish. And eggs will have less impact than peperoni pizza, or example. So people who go from the extreme of the Standard American diet to eating whole foods including eggs adn meat will see some improvement. Howerver the most improvement has been shown on a plant based diet. Reguardless of how it works it has been shown that LDL levels less than 80 corrolate with a zero risk or heart disease and can be acheived with proper diet and exercise.

[Joeschmoe]

Check below and many of your posts in this forums. You 're clearly advocating a low fat diet but then you failed to realize that nuts and seeds are very high in fats. Maybe you need to double check your writing before making a post.

Again, what makes you think I don't know this? Maybe you could take a class or two in reading comprehension.

You can eat high fat items on a low fat diet, just in moderation.

When i was talking about low fat foods I was talking about fruits and vegetables. They all have EFA's in closer to proper ratios. Beyound the required amount of EFA's your body can produce almost all the fatty acids it needs or normal funtions. That's why they aren't essential fatty acids. That includes what cholesterol is needed.

Interesting fact, carnivores can not get diet induced heart disease, herbivores can. Carnivores are equiped to handle large amount of cholesterol and saturated fat.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Joeschmoe

This is not saying all meat is equally bad and all plant foods are equally good. There is a spectrum, fried bacon will hav emore impact than fish. And eggs will have less impact than peperoni pizza, or example. So people who go from the extreme of the Standard American diet to eating whole foods including eggs adn meat will see some improvement. Howerver the most improvement has been shown on a plant based diet. Reguardless of how it works it has been shown that LDL levels less than 80 corrolate with a zero risk or heart disease and can be acheived with proper diet and exercise.

Thanks for the info. I'll definitely start eating more greens and fish and less meat.