Switching to Biphasic Sleeping? Start here.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by SKVE

I decided to try to switch to biphasic sleep, and I'm now on day 2 in the adaption period. I'm doing the 1.5/4.5 (core sleep from 1:30 to 6:00am, naps 7:00 to 8:30pm) split.

Just one problem - I can't fall asleep at all during my naps. Is this something that I eventually will be able to after some time? I'm pretty tired during the day, but still can't fall asleep during the nap.

Hi SKVE,

Those times are pretty close to my own.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind here -

You'll get better at falling asleep once your body gets used to the new routine. I'm fine up until about 7:30, and then I suddenly get tired and can be asleep about 10 minutes later.

The other thing is that your lifestyle plays a big role in determining how long it will take to fall asleep (diet, exercise, stress etc). Were you having trouble falling asleep before you switched to a biphasic routine?

[SKVE]

Originally Posted by Scott Bird

Hi SKVE,
Those times are pretty close to my own.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind here -

You'll get better at falling asleep once your body gets used to the new routine. I'm fine up until about 7:30, and then I suddenly get tired and can be asleep about 10 minutes later.

The other thing is that your lifestyle plays a big role in determining how long it will take to fall asleep (diet, exercise, stress etc). Were you having trouble falling asleep before you switched to a biphasic routine?

Thanks for the reply, Scott Bird.

Before I switched to biphasic I could fall asleep very fast, depending on how active I had been during the day etc. So I guess I'll just stick to the 1.5/4.5 routine and see if it gets better

[betlamed]

Hmmm...

I tried biphasic last night. 21:00-22:30, and 1:00-5:30. I overslept the core sleep until 6:30 ;-).

Well, okay, first off I'd have to fuzz around with the timings... Also, I think, if I seriously do this, it will be important to actually get out of bed in the time between nap and core sleep.

Secondly, since I usually sleep 7 hours (0-7), I'm starting to doubt the advantage. Wouldn't it be better to just switch to 6 hours of sleep in one block?

Why go biphasic and not just sleep for an increment of 90 mins?

Thanks for any hints!
bl

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by betlamed

Hmmm...

I tried biphasic last night. 21:00-22:30, and 1:00-5:30. I overslept the core sleep until 6:30 ;-).

Well, okay, first off I'd have to fuzz around with the timings... Also, I think, if I seriously do this, it will be important to actually get out of bed in the time between nap and core sleep.

Secondly, since I usually sleep 7 hours (0-7), I'm starting to doubt the advantage. Wouldn't it be better to just switch to 6 hours of sleep in one block?

Why go biphasic and not just sleep for an increment of 90 mins?

Thanks for any hints!
bl

Hi Betlamed,

One of the main advantages (to me, at least) of biphasic sleep is the improved quality of sleep, not just the reduced quantity. 6 hours of biphasic sleep will be much more refreshing than 6 hours of monophasic.

wrt getting out of bed between sleeps, yes. I found this too. If I decided to stay in bed and work on my laptop, I invariably felt more tired than if I actually got up and did something. Usually I just get up and use a desktop machine somewhere.

[Erock]

Question on the 90 minute sleep cycle thing guys. Do you set your alarm for 90 minutes and then take like 15 minutes to go to sleep or do you set it for 105 minutes to factor in the 15 minutes of time it takes to go to sleep?

Or a better way to word that question: Because it's hard to be exact, is it better to cut a cycle off, or go 5 minutes or so into the next cycle?

Thanks a ton
Erock

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Erock

Question on the 90 minute sleep cycle thing guys. Do you set your alarm for 90 minutes and then take like 15 minutes to go to sleep or do you set it for 105 minutes to factor in the 15 minutes of time it takes to go to sleep?

Or a better way to word that question: Because it's hard to be exact, is it better to cut a cycle off, or go 5 minutes or so into the next cycle?

Thanks a ton
Erock

It's closer to the 105 answer, but this will obviously depend on the actual length of your cycle (90 minutes is just an average; everyone varies a little) as well as the time it takes you to get to sleep.

In my case, my cycle length is nearer 80 minutes; and it usually takes 10 minutes or less to get to sleep. I set the alarm for about 100 minutes (so there's a bit of a buffer there, just in case), but I usually wake up before it goes off.

As to the second point, I prefer to go 5 minutes into the next cycle (if there's any deviation at all) - much more refreshing than not quite having enough sleep.

[Erock]

Ah that's what I thought. I think once you get in the habit of training yourself to wake up after one cycle you're money.

Thanks for the response
Erock

[Calculusaurus]

I finished the second week of biphasic sleep.

During the first week, it was impossible for me to be productive after the 90 minute nap, but now I feel energetic enough to get stuff done during that period. My eyes still feel a little heavy though, but not enough to prevent book reading.

I think my body is still adapting to the 90 minute nap. I have yet to wake up before the alarm, but it's getting easier and easier to get out of bed. I've been waking up from core sleep before the alarm, and it appears that my natural cycle is somewhat under 90 minutes (but not by much).

Biphasic sleep has given me a small boost in overall energy. I wake up from my core sleep feeling nicely refreshed. But my energy level is in a more fragile state. Delay the nap by several hours? Bad idea. Eat a big dinner? Terrible idea. So if I want to enjoy the energy boost of biphasic sleep, it looks like I have to be extra careful of things like carb crashes, and I need to stick pretty hard to the sleep schedule.

For the past few months I haven't had many vivid dreams (this is something I dearly miss, by the way. I used to have beautifully vivid dreams on a nightly basis a few years back. I'm currently trying to find a way to bring those back.) But when I started biphasic sleep, I also started a dream journal and have been practicing the most basic dream recall techniques. So far, nothing. Dream recall has decreased a small amount since I started biphasic sleep.

Other than that, so far so good. The extra 2 hours in the day are worth the effort of being biphasic.

[Thomas H]

I've been sleeping biphasicly (is that a word?) for about ten days now with no real problems (except when I forget to change the PMs to AMs on my alarm) but I was having some trouble optimizing my time schedule and figuring out what time would be best for core sleep with my nap at time xx:xx. I read that 6.5 hours was a good amount of time after the nap and before the core sleep. I made a chart in excel based on this concept because if you're anything like me adding and subtracting times in your head can get a little confusing, so this is useful for a quick reference.

For Example, if I want to take my nap at 5pm I can look at the chart and it will tell me what time to take my core sleep and wake up the next day. It works backwards too. If you know you want to wake up at 5:30am you can look at the chart and it will tell you what time to take your nap.

I also know that 6.5 hours between naps isn't optimal for everyone so I made it so you can change one of the cells in the spreadsheet to reflect the amount of time you want in between your naps.

It's a simple spreadsheet, and it only took me about 10 minutes to make. I'd be happy to share it with anyone else who would like to use it.
You can PM me your E-mail address or send me an e-mail at TDollarBill24@comcast.net

[Tripp444]

This would only work for me if I could consistently nap from around 10-11:30 and core-sleep from around 3-7AM. Although, it sounds like these intervals would be much too close together. Anyone have any luck with this sort of timing?
My only other alternative would be if I could shift the intervals around my work schedule (I typically work 8AM-6PM, or 11AM-9PM). Again, anyone able to move things around?

[Sam988]

Ill try biphasic sleep, maybe i have more luck with this one.


But i cant take a nap between 7pm-11:30pm

So i'll have my nap between 4:30pm-6pm and have my core sleep between 0am-4:30am


I got some questions though.



1. While i can have this sleeping schedule easily during weekdays, in weekends it might be hard to hold the habit (friday and saturday). Sometimes i'll only go sleep at around 4am in the weekend. Assuming i've already established an habit, can i easily go back to biphasic sleeping on the weekdays?

2. In the first 21 days of developing the habit, what if i screw it for one or two days like sleeping later than i should for core sleep or sleeping too much (i have this problem, i turn the alarm off without noticing it)?


I know that every person has slightly different sleeping needs so i would only know the answer for these questions by trying it for myself, but i would appreciate some insight or similar experiences you biphasic sleepers have had.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Sam988

1. While i can have this sleeping schedule easily during weekdays, in weekends it might be hard to hold the habit (friday and saturday). Sometimes i'll only go sleep at around 4am in the weekend. Assuming i've already established an habit, can i easily go back to biphasic sleeping on the weekdays?

2. In the first 21 days of developing the habit, what if i screw it for one or two days like sleeping later than i should for core sleep or sleeping too much (i have this problem, i turn the alarm off without noticing it)?


I know that every person has slightly different sleeping needs so i would only know the answer for these questions by trying it for myself, but i would appreciate some insight or similar experiences you biphasic sleepers have had.

Hi Sam,

A couple of quick answers (I'm about to head out) :

1. I'm currently sleeping with a biphasic schedule for 5 days per week, and monophasic for the other two. No problem at all switching between them.

The only adjustment I make is to allow an extra sleep cycle for the monophasic days. So if you get a total of 6 hours on biphasic days, allow 7.5 hours on the monophasic ones.

2. I wouldn't worry about stuff like accidentally oversleeping. It happens to everyone occasionally, and all you can do is minimise the chance of it happening.

One distinction I made - particularly in the first month or so - is to only sleep _on_ the bed (or couch, whatever) for the nap; and _in_ the bed for the core sleep. It also seems to help to get up and move around inbetween sleeps - don't just stay in bed and grab your laptop.

Good luck, it's well worth the change.

[Sam988]

Thanks Scott!

Lets see if i can be as flexible in sleeping habits.

[Sam988]

Started biphasic sleeping today.


I fell asleep around 1:20am (the plan was to sleep at 0am but couldnt sleep) and woke up at 6am

I felt great until like 10am then started feeling a bit tired and now its 11am and im a bit better though not as much as if i slept as i normally used to (from 3am to 11am).

I wont take the 90 minutes nap today because i want to be able to sleep as soon as i go to bed.


I hope the bit of drowsiness i feel now go off once i get used to biphasic sleeping. Did you guys also have some drowsiness in the beggining?

[Sam988]

Today is day 2 of biphasic sleeping. In day 1 wasnt hard for me get up once the alarm turned on.

Since i didnt take a nap yesterday because i wanted to be able to sleep as soon as i go to bed, i really had a hard time getting out of bed today.

I went to bed at midnight, and i probably slept at 00:20am. I had set the alarm to 5am. Today when the alarm went on, my half-awake personality rapidly turned it off (as i always automatically do), and i ended up felling asleep again.

The amazing part is that 15min later it seemed that the alarm was ringing but then when i saw the clock, it wasnt actually. But that woke me up and i managed to get out of bed. I guess that was my subconscious giving me some help to keep on to my goal?


I hope day 3 gets easier since im taking a nap today. If day 3 is meant to be harder, then im afraid im not making it.


Did anyone have this trouble in the beggining too?

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Sam988

Did anyone have this trouble in the beggining too?

Yes - it took a week or so for the body to really adapt to the new routine. I began with a 30-day trial, which is detailed here (including a summary and links to the individual days). Hope this helps.

[Calculusaurus]

Recently I have tried taking the 4.5 hour core sleep at 8:00pm to 12:30am and the 90 minute nap at around 6am or 7am.

For some reason this has given me better results. I easily wake up from both sleeps, and better yet, I'm alert and ready to do work from 12:30am until my nap.

The normal biphasic sleep schedule (90 at 8pm, 4.5 at 2:30am) worked well most of the time but I often found myself in a terribly groggy state of energy from waking up from the 90m nap until my 4.5 sleep. Some people say that this is from being in a SWS state.

Currently, the thing that I have yet to fully master is the sleep cycle thing. While I give myself 90 minute cycles + 10 minute buffer, I still find myself waking at sporadic times -- sometimes the alarm wakes me up right in the middle of a dream, while just yesterday I woke up 30 minutes *before* the alarm! (But when I happen to wake up from just the right part of sleep, I'm gold and feel like I can conquer the world -- a feeling that lasts the entire day)

Can anyone point me to some resource (a scientific paper, preferably) that goes into detail with cycle lengths, how they vary (if at all) from night to night, and how certain factors -- a large meal beforehand, etc -- affect the cycle length? I'll search a bit myself and post if I find anything.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Calculusaurus

Recently I have tried taking the 4.5 hour core sleep at 8:00pm to 12:30am and the 90 minute nap at around 6am or 7am.

That's very interesting. I tried that myself, and there was no obvious benefit (in my case); so it's another area that differs from person to person.

Originally Posted by Calculusaurus

Can anyone point me to some resource (a scientific paper, preferably) that goes into detail with cycle lengths, how they vary (if at all) from night to night, and how certain factors -- a large meal beforehand, etc -- affect the cycle length? I'll search a bit myself and post if I find anything.

I'd also love to see one (for adult humans, that is - I've discovered a few on children and animals). Most of my findings are based on empirical data only.

[romainb]

Originally Posted by Calculusaurus

Recently I have tried taking the 4.5 hour core sleep at 8:00pm to 12:30am and the 90 minute nap at around 6am or 7am.

For some reason this has given me better results. I easily wake up from both sleeps, and better yet, I'm alert and ready to do work from 12:30am until my nap.

The normal biphasic sleep schedule (90 at 8pm, 4.5 at 2:30am) worked well most of the time but I often found myself in a terribly groggy state of energy from waking up from the 90m nap until my 4.5 sleep. Some people say that this is from being in a SWS state.

Currently, the thing that I have yet to fully master is the sleep cycle thing. While I give myself 90 minute cycles + 10 minute buffer, I still find myself waking at sporadic times -- sometimes the alarm wakes me up right in the middle of a dream, while just yesterday I woke up 30 minutes *before* the alarm! (But when I happen to wake up from just the right part of sleep, I'm gold and feel like I can conquer the world -- a feeling that lasts the entire day)

Can anyone point me to some resource (a scientific paper, preferably) that goes into detail with cycle lengths, how they vary (if at all) from night to night, and how certain factors -- a large meal beforehand, etc -- affect the cycle length? I'll search a bit myself and post if I find anything.

I also do this on days I can't do, I skip, or forget my nap, except with a 3 hour/1.5 hour split (I've even done 1.5/1.5/1.5 a couple of times and felt fine - maybe even better) and that schedule prevents me from feeling tired around midnight, which is usually what happens when i do my nap first, since my nap and core are often too far apart otherwise. I think I'll be experimenting to see what I like best (1.5 before dinner/3, or 1.5 after dinner (really hard I find)/3, 3 after dinner/1.5, or 1.5 before dinner/ 1.5 midnight/1.5 early morning)

[Scin]

At the moment, I sleep for about 7.5-8 hours per night. This usually happens from 10:30 PM until 7:00 AM with half hour variance. I sleep in one position for most of the night on a really, really crappy mattress and boxsprings (hey, they were free....so what if they're little better than sleeping on the floor?) with no bedframe.

I can't fall sleep while there is light visible. This makes sleeping during the day extraordinarily difficult for me. Additionally, if I nap, I always wake up feeling groggy and downright icky for a good half hour or so afterwards.

All that said, I'm very interested in the potential benefits of biphasic sleeping. Can anyone recommend some good tactics to employ to overcome my difficulties?

[Thomas H]

Originally Posted by Scin

At the moment, I sleep for about 7.5-8 hours per night. This usually happens from 10:30 PM until 7:00 AM with half hour variance. I sleep in one position for most of the night on a really, really crappy mattress and boxsprings (hey, they were free....so what if they're little better than sleeping on the floor?) with no bedframe.

How do you feel when you wake up now?? Do you feel refreshed or still tired and groggy? I ask because I had a poor mattress for a few months and it was really negatively affecting the quality of my sleep. I would get about 7.5 hours and still feel dead tired when I woke up and I often WAS better off sleeping on top of a blanket on the floor.

Originally Posted by Scin

I can't fall sleep while there is light visible. This makes sleeping during the day extraordinarily difficult for me. Additionally, if I nap, I always wake up feeling groggy and downright icky for a good half hour or so afterwards.

Depending on where you live you can still be a biphasic sleeper while sleeping only during night hours. For example, if you take a 1.5 hour nap at 8pm and woke up at 9:30pm then have your core sleep from 2:30am-7am. Also, you could consider buying one of those sleeping masks that covers your eyes while you sleep.

Another piece of advice regarding that, I can't speak for everyone but for me it became easier to fall asleep during the day when there was visible light after I started sleeping less at night. This was probably because I was more tired when it came time to nap. This could be true for you as well.

[september]

Now that I'm out of school, I have more freedom to play around with my sleep schedule.

Starting tonight, I'll be doing a 6/1.5 split, from 11-5 and 2:30-4. I'll gradually be moving that down, to 4.5/1.5, then to 3/1.5. I'm sure you guys have heard the story before. I'm just posting here to keep myself on schedule.

Here's to sleeping more effectively!

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by september

Now that I'm out of school, I have more freedom to play around with my sleep schedule.

Starting tonight, I'll be doing a 6/1.5 split, from 11-5 and 2:30-4. I'll gradually be moving that down, to 4.5/1.5, then to 3/1.5. I'm sure you guys have heard the story before. I'm just posting here to keep myself on schedule.

Here's to sleeping more effectively!

Best of luck. Let us know how you get on.

[Amarena]

Interesting experiment. I usually don’t agree with sleeping this way, but yesterday I slept an hour in the afternoon, then I stayed up all night and I’ve slept from 5:00AM till 10:30AM. I woke up a little dizzy, but I felt great for the rest of the day. My time now is 21:43PM and I still feel great, not sleepy and not planning to go to bed early. I’m not sure about how healthy this is, though. I didn’t sleep in the afternoon today.

[september]

Last night was a little rough. I ended up falling asleep around 2 and so I ended up getting up at 6:15... which actually ends up around the 4.5 mark, so good on me, then. I took a nap at about 3 that lasted about 40 minutes, which I'll need to improve on. I'm aching from work, but I'm holding up pretty well. Hopefully I'll get to sleep and get up on time tomorrow.

[Scin]

Originally Posted by Thomas H

How do you feel when you wake up now?? Do you feel refreshed or still tired and groggy? I ask because I had a poor mattress for a few months and it was really negatively affecting the quality of my sleep. I would get about 7.5 hours and still feel dead tired when I woke up and I often WAS better off sleeping on top of a blanket on the floor.

I usually wake up feeling fine. This morning was different, but that's could be because I went to bed at 9:30 PM and woke up at 6 AM after a very long day. I felt really groggy, though not tired, when I woke up. It took me an hour to crawl out of bed and I still felt nasty until about 7:30 AM.

Another piece of advice regarding that, I can't speak for everyone but for me it became easier to fall asleep during the day when there was visible light after I started sleeping less at night. This was probably because I was more tired when it came time to nap. This could be true for you as well.

Hmm....I'll have to keep this in mind. Thanks!

[september]

Last night was bad... I felt tired at 10, which makes sense. However, either I couldn't or wouldn't stay up the extra two hours... probably because it just feels so unhealthy to keep your body up. However, at 5, I turned my alarm off and went back to sleep! After 7 hours of sleep! I got up at 6:40.

I'm gonna try and get it right this time.

[Thomas H]

I'm having such great success w/ biphasic sleep that I'm considering going all out polyphasic. Has anyone completed the transition from Biphasic to Polyphasic?? If you have, post your experience and advice!!

[Calculusaurus]

Originally Posted by Thomas H

I'm having such great success w/ biphasic sleep that I'm considering going all out polyphasic. Has anyone completed the transition from Biphasic to Polyphasic?? If you have, post your experience and advice!!

I'm making the transition from biphasic to uberman in 2 weeks. I'll be sure to publicize it somehow.

[september]

2-6:30 this morning. Not bad! Am planning on napping in 20 minutes, as I couldn't nap earlier.

I'm mainly experiencing problems getting up between 4 and 6. Anyone else doing biphasic have similar problems? I can get the same amount of sleep and be fine so long as I get up after 6.