Switching to Biphasic Sleeping? Start here.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Cactus

Hi! I've recently switched to biphasic sleep. My schedule is 1,5h from 20:30 to 22:00 and 3h from 3.00 to 6.00. It is my 8th day on this schedule and I
was wondering how long does it take to get adjusted to 4,5h of sleep. I feel great after my 1,5h hours nap, but I'm quite tired during the day. Does it take longer to get used to 4,5h of sleep than to 6h of sleep?

Another thing is that I've overslept a couple of times from 3.00 to 7.30. I've first woke up at 6.00 but somehow turned off the alarm and woken up automatically at 7.30. It felt pretty good, but I'd much rather sleep 4,5h. It's great to do all my work from 12.00 to 3.00 when everyone is asleep and wake up
at 6 to read all the newspapers before they wake up.

So should I switch my schedule to 6h instead of 4,5h or just wait to get adjusted?

Hi Cactus.

No doubt it varies from person to person, but in my case I didn't get used to the 4.5 hours in a week or so and switched to 6 hours per day. That feels right to me, and there's never any feeling of having a sleep deficit.

As to the question of switching from 4.5 to 6, I'd say you may as well. 6 hours' quality sleep is a lot better than 4.5 that leaves you tired. There won't be any transition time involved, the 6 will just feel like you've slept in. Try it and see.

[Ati]

Hello all...

How nice to see what a nice group of people have joined up here in this discussion!

I've had a lot of situational things and have pretty much free sleeping after my 30 day trial, documented earlier.

Most interesting is that the chronic fatigue that I had before this is still gone! I can't really believe it and I can't ascribe this change to anything else. 30 days of trying (not always successfully) to split up my sleep 1.5 and 4.5 seems to have turned things around on an incredible fatigue factor that I just pushed my way through (few people ever thought of me as anything but high energy but the effort was incredibly taxing on me)

Anyway good luck to everyone... I usually start up again with a 1.5 nap and I did that today, bedtime now and hope to be up in 4.5, that'll be about 4:30 am since I'll read a bit before I fall off to sleep tonight...

all best,

ati

[Ati]

Yah, went to sleep at 1215 and then just woke up at 445, I'd been dreaming, then opened my eyes to look at the clock. Since it's a day off, I didn't set a back up alarm, just took note that 3 cycles would wind up at 445am. I'm really amazed at how my physiology has latched on to the 90 minute cycle.

Yesterday while crashed out on the couch with the stove timer set for 1:30 hrs, my husband playing guitar, my daughter on the phone (I seem to be able to sleep through a lot, but I hesitate to try the naps in bed lest I get confused abt night and day !)----I slept deeply and then suddenly awakened as if some noise had gone off. I called out "What time is it on the stove?" My daughter said "you have 3 minutes left". Go figure !

Have any of the rest of you had interesting experiences with the 90 minute cycle? I'm thinking that this might be a very powerful component of the strength of all this....

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Ati

Have any of the rest of you had interesting experiences with the 90 minute cycle? I'm thinking that this might be a very powerful component of the strength of all this....

I quite often wake up just before the alarm sounds (which I always set as a backup), which means that my cycles are of a reasonably consistent length. As for 'days off', what are they again?

Incidentally, for any Pzizz users out there, I noticed on a quick snippet from the MacBreak podcast that there is a version of Pzizz being developed specifically for biphasic sleep. Really looking forward to the release of that.

[Ati]

What a great thread this has turned out to be! I'm just reading "backwards" in time, such interesting experiences!

Originally Posted by Cactus

Hi! I've recently switched to biphasic sleep. My schedule is 1,5h from 20:30 to 22:00 and 3h from 3.00 to 6.00. It is my 8th day on this schedule and I was wondering how long does it take to get adjusted to 4,5h of sleep. I feel great after my 1,5h hours nap, but I'm quite tired during the day. Does it take longer to get used to 4,5h of sleep than to 6h of sleep?

One thing here, Cactus, is that your nap and longer sleep period seems a bit close together, maybe. What is the light like where you live? I find light to be a real driving force for wakefulness. I'm wondering if you woke up when it was light out rather than still dark at 6am (if it is), whether that would kick off the day in a way so that you're not as tired day times.

I agree with Scott that 6 good hours is better than 4.5 mediocre hours. I find that the difference in alertness, focus, wakefulness, energy etc. is much more important to me than the actual number of hours I have "awake".

Originally Posted by Cactus

Another thing is that I've overslept a couple of times from 3.00 to 7.30. I've first woke up at 6.00 but somehow turned off the alarm and woken up automatically at 7.30. It felt pretty good, but I'd much rather sleep 4,5h. It's great to do all my work from 12.00 to 3.00 when everyone is asleep and wake up at 6 to read all the newspapers before they wake up.

Can't help but noticing that you've just said you woke up automatically at 7.30, well that's one more cycle, isn't it? I now find myself estimating how many cycles I think I need rather than how many hours. The fact that your waking up was "automatically" intrigues me. Same thing has happened to me time and time again.

Originally Posted by Scott Bird

Hi Cactus.

No doubt it varies from person to person, but in my case I didn't get used to the 4.5 hours in a week or so and switched to 6 hours per day. That feels right to me, and there's never any feeling of having a sleep deficit.

As to the question of switching from 4.5 to 6, I'd say you may as well. 6 hours' quality sleep is a lot better than 4.5 that leaves you tired. There won't be any transition time involved, the 6 will just feel like you've slept in. Try it and see.

Yah, and thanks for your continued interest and attention here Scott Bird!

I'm just glad I found this thread

[Ati]

Originally Posted by Joe826

How long does it take you to get going in the morning? How long do you lay in bed after you wake up, and then how long does it take for you to kick that groggy feeling?

Several things about getting up. I agree with what Scott said as well, putting a buffer time into your alarm setting...

1. It's real important to me to make the decision the night before when I'm going to get up in the morning then stick to it. Rarely a good idea to get into that debate in the morning

2. That means I need to be realistic the night before. As I mentioned, I count out what I plan to sleep in cycle lengths, figuring 90 minutes, but I generally wake up at about 70 to 80, so there's the buffer. If I generally woke up in 90, I'd set the alarm for 100 or 110 minutes.

3. Now, the wake up. When I first wake up* and see by the clock that it is time to get up (not just the end of a different cycle or some noise in the house or my cat), I OPEN MY EYES even if it's dark. Then check in--am I awake?--and yes most often I am at that part of the cycle which is awake--REM before going back into stage 1-2-3. Then over just a minute or two, I stretch an KEEP MY EYES OPEN. Then out of bed and into the bath for face wash etc. with the lights up as high as they go. Then quick regular routine and into our front room where I TURN ON ALL THE LIGHTS. Weird? maybe but boy am I awake by then. From the time I first wake up*, if it is indeed time to get up, til the time I'm in the living room with the lights all on is maybe 10 minutes, but with progressively increasing feeling of alertness.

We have track lights in the living room and kitchen plus a light at the table where my computer is. I'm not blasting myself with flourescent or other harsh light. It's warm, but plenty of light. If I didn't already have a lighting arrangement that feels good to me, I'd research the type of lights that are being sold for winter blues, etc. Those work well, too for depression and sleep disturbances so probably would work for this.

Scott, Dave, others do you know of anything having to do with SAD lights in regards to bi or polyphasic sleeping?

Hope this helps...

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Ati

Yah, and thanks for your continued interest and attention here Scott Bird!

I'm just glad I found this thread

Cheers Ati. Very kind of you.

Originally Posted by Ati

Scott, Dave, others do you know of anything having to do with SAD lights in regards to bi or polyphasic sleeping?

Ati, your morning routine sounds a lot like mine. It all revolves around waking up at the right time, getting up and doing stuff first thing. Makes a great change from the mornings of hangovers and inadequate sleep I used to have

As for lighting, I'm pretty lucky here - the days are long and the sun's usually nice and clear. I was monophasic when I lived in other countries, so I'd only be guessing; but I wouldn't be surprised if lighting plays a big role in polyphasic routines. It'd be great to hear from Scandinavian biphasic sleepers on the role of natural vs artificial lights.

[kravin]

Hi everyone

Has anyone noticed a change in their eating habits / appetite when shifting to biphasic sleeping? I am thinking of giving it a go when I return from an interstate holiday in a few weeks and I'm just wondering what to expect.

For example, if I exercise after a long period of being a sloth, I notice that my appetite increases sharply, and then tapers off over a couple of weeks until it returns to normal. Has anyone had these kinds of effects with the longer waking hours provided by biphasic sleeping?

Also, I believe Steve mentioned his veganism as being an essential factor in his success with polyphasic sleep. Has anyone found they get more rest with biphasic by following one particular diet over another?

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by kravin

Hi everyone

Has anyone noticed a change in their eating habits / appetite when shifting to biphasic sleeping? I am thinking of giving it a go when I return from an interstate holiday in a few weeks and I'm just wondering what to expect.

For example, if I exercise after a long period of being a sloth, I notice that my appetite increases sharply, and then tapers off over a couple of weeks until it returns to normal. Has anyone had these kinds of effects with the longer waking hours provided by biphasic sleeping?

Also, I believe Steve mentioned his veganism as being an essential factor in his success with polyphasic sleep. Has anyone found they get more rest with biphasic by following one particular diet over another?

Hi Kravin.

I had my major diet issues sorted out before I switched, which possibly aided the transition. The things that are known to affect sleep will still do so (caffeine, alcohol, some dairy, spicy foods, anything that's slow to digest etc).

A couple of personal observations. I get hungry shortly after waking from my nap, and usually grab some toast or something. This additional 'meal' hasn't really changed since I switched to a biphasic routine a few months ago, and hasn't had any impact on my weight, tiredness/alertness or anything else associated with sleep.

I've also noticed that on days where I drink coffee (maybe 2-3 times per week), my nap isn't quite as deep. Usually I drink green tea, which doesn't seem to have any impact on sleeping at all. Just to clarify, that's 2-3 cups of fairly strong cafetierre coffee on each occasion, and it's a minimum of 8 hours prior to the nap.

[kpreston]

I've finally decided to give biphasic sleeping a go. I'm about tired (tired... ha!) of my girlfriend and my father complaining about my terrible sleeping habits. I'm going to try taking my 1.5 at 2100, and my core sleep (4.5) at 0330.

I'll try to use this thread as a blog for the first couple of weeks, if no one minds... I don't want to spam.

Wish me luck.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by kpreston

I've finally decided to give biphasic sleeping a go. I'm about tired (tired... ha!) of my girlfriend and my father complaining about my terrible sleeping habits. I'm going to try taking my 1.5 at 2100, and my core sleep (4.5) at 0330.

I'll try to use this thread as a blog for the first couple of weeks, if no one minds... I don't want to spam.

Wish me luck.

Welcome aboard kpreston. Hope everything goes well.

With the blogging, take a look at the 'Post your polyphasic sleep logs here' thread. There's some good information there.

[kravin]

Originally Posted by Scott Bird

Hi Kravin.

I had my major diet issues sorted out before I switched...

Thanks for that Scott. Nice to know that I probably won't need to take a trolley load of food with me to work each day. Hopefully I can still hold onto the super-hot curries, though.

It's interesting that a lot of people on this thread seem to be reporting that a biphasic sleeping pattern is pretty easy to transition into, and has few major negative side-effects. I don't smoke or drink any caffeine at all, so I'll only need to cut out alchohol during my 30 day biphasic sleeping trial (only 2 weeks till I kick it off!) and that's something I've been thinking of cutting back on anyway.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by kravin

I don't smoke or drink any caffeine at all, so I'll only need to cut out alchohol during my 30 day biphasic sleeping trial (only 2 weeks till I kick it off!) and that's something I've been thinking of cutting back on anyway.

I found that I inadvertently cut right back on alcohol when I switched to biphasic sleeping, simply because I changed my working hours slightly. It's great working at night - especially when you work from home - as it's nice and peaceful. I get a lot more done these days.

[kpreston]

How long should it take before I start to adjust to the point where I don't have to use pure will-power to refrain from hitting the snooze button, and just get up because I'm awake and aware. While I enjoy being up late into the night, and being right up again early in the morning, I don't like having to force myself out of bed. My dad is still confused on how it's happening. All he can say is that I'm "killing my body!" Oh noez.

[Radek Pilich]

It tooks me little bit more than two days to feel good in the morning, but still I often returned to bed soon after visiting bathroom and kitchen, an oversleept for anything between 30 and 180 minut. Often I haven`t really slept, I was just lying in bed and enjoing the 'comfort'. Sure that start of the day was very slow then and I have difficulties to sleep during the nap.

One thing I discovered recently and witch works good for me in the morning is to use recording of your voice. Just sit down in the evening, write a statement what you want to do in the morinig and then record it in your mobile and use it as alarm. And don't forget to add phrases like "Good morning, you decided to wake up now", "This will be the great start to your day", "best day in your life is here", "what a great morning" or something like that .)

Hope this helps, it`s the only strategy which works successfuly for me, probably because of self-esteem (self-respect?). And it also tells you what are you going to do and if you design your plan wisely, you can feel awake quickly. The meaning of this is to tell your brain what actions to take. If you spend 15 minutes out of bed occupied with something, it`s unlikely that you will feel the need to return to bed.

[kpreston]

I'll have to try something. Because right now I will wake up and do the "I'll set my alarm for another 20 minutes." That alarm will go off, and I'll take another 20 minute nap, then end up late for class.

[John Wesley]

I'm seriously considering giving it a shot. I've been having problems getting good monophasic sleep because I can't get to bed early enough. I would like to wake up at around 5 or 6, but I have trouble sleeping before 1:00 a.m.(and even later many nights). This may be a way for me to get the best of both worlds.

[Cactus]

Originally Posted by Scott Bird

Hi Cactus.

No doubt it varies from person to person, but in my case I didn't get used to the 4.5 hours in a week or so and switched to 6 hours per day. That feels right to me, and there's never any feeling of having a sleep deficit.

As to the question of switching from 4.5 to 6, I'd say you may as well. 6 hours' quality sleep is a lot better than 4.5 that leaves you tired. There won't be any transition time involved, the 6 will just feel like you've slept in. Try it and see.

Thanks for the reply! I actually decided to switch from 4,5 hours of sleep to 6 hours of sleep. My current schedule is 20:30-22:00 + 03:00-7:30 and it's working great. I am really amazed by the results. I have much more energy and more time. Sometimes I even lose track of what day it is .

My only problem is that on Fridays I'm going to miss my nap because I'm busy from 16:00-03:00. So my question is how much affect does missing your nap have and how can I make up for the lost sleep time? Should I take a nap at some other time or sleep 6 hours or more at 03:00?

[andrew]

Well since coming back from holiday, I have started to get back into the rutine, and it's hard.

Only once this week I actually got up at 6:30, the other times I went back to sleep until 11

I think I'm going to do 6 hours a night, and 1.5 nap. Then work my way down. 4.5 doesn't seem like my body wants to do it. Should I force it right away, or work into it?

I really have trouble getting up in the morning, I'll wake then go back to sleep like 5 times, regardless of biphasic sleeping, unless i wake up by myself, then I'm more prone to get up.

[Cactus]

One thing here, Cactus, is that your nap and longer sleep period seems a bit close together, maybe. What is the light like where you live? I find light to be a real driving force for wakefulness. I'm wondering if you woke up when it was light out rather than still dark at 6am (if it is), whether that would kick off the day in a way so that you're not as tired day times.

I agree with Scott that 6 good hours is better than 4.5 mediocre hours. I find that the difference in alertness, focus, wakefulness, energy etc. is much more important to me than the actual number of hours I have "awake".

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, they are a bit close together but this is my only option because of my tight schedule. The other option for me could be 20:30-22:00 + 4:30-7:30 but then again that would only be 4,5 hours. I don't know, maybe I could try that someday.

As for the light, the sun rises here at 9.00-10.00 and sets at 15:00-16:00, so I don't think that makes a difference .

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by andrew

Well since coming back from holiday, I have started to get back into the rutine, and it's hard.

Only once this week I actually got up at 6:30, the other times I went back to sleep until 11

I think I'm going to do 6 hours a night, and 1.5 nap. Then work my way down. 4.5 doesn't seem like my body wants to do it. Should I force it right away, or work into it?

I really have trouble getting up in the morning, I'll wake then go back to sleep like 5 times, regardless of biphasic sleeping, unless i wake up by myself, then I'm more prone to get up.

Starting with a 6/1.5 split and working down sounds like a good option. Keep in mind, however, that it only took a week or so for your body to adjust to the new schedule the first time; so 'work down' fairly aggressively

[Cactus]

I was just wondering, how do you guys make up for your lost 1,5h naps? I missed one again today but just decided to stay awake until my 4,5h sleep.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Cactus

I was just wondering, how do you guys make up for your lost 1,5h naps? I missed one again today but just decided to stay awake until my 4,5h sleep.

Hi Cactus.

If I know in advance that I'll miss a regular nap time, I'll either try to get 2x20min naps instead or a night of monophasic sleep. If taking the monophasic option, I'll add a cycle to the usual daily total (1.5+4 hours biphasic, or 7.5 hours monophasic).

For a nap that's missed unexpectedly, a 20 minute nap (as well as the usual longer variety) the following day usually seems to be enough to get back on track.

[Brutha]

Wouldn't it be easier if we had a subforum for the sleep schedules? That would prevent all those different subtopics being mixed up in this thread.

[dadeon]

for many people, especially those with full schedules the time sequences might be inconvenient.

I switched my sleeping routines around a couple of years ago. I was one of those (ignorant) people who believed that I needed 8 hours of sleep a day. Instead I swapped it for 5.5 hours at night and then a 45 minute 'powernap' in the late afternoon. I must admit that it wasn't easy at first, but like anything it's only a habit.

Now I just have soooo much more time to live life and not sleep may way through it. AND...the best part is that I am so much more productive.

[dadeon]

I read about a very interesting research that was done where they too people and placed them in undeground bunkers (willingly). They then took away all references to time and they were given loads of creative stimulation.

They had no reference to 'sleeping time' or eating time ec.

They found that the average person only slept 4.4 hours a day. It turns out that most of people only sleep 8 hours out of habit or maybe out of not knowing what to do with their lives?

[Brutha]

I read about a very interesting research that was done where they too people and placed them in undeground bunkers (willingly). They then took away all references to time and they were given loads of creative stimulation.[...]
They found that the average person only slept 4.4 hours a day.

Could you point to a source for the number?

Starting with a 6/1.5 split and working down sounds like a good option. Keep in mind, however, that it only took a week or so for your body to adjust to the new schedule the first time; so 'work down' fairly aggressively

If the theory that you should sleep multiples of 90 minutes at a time is right (4,5/1,5 seems to be based on it) working down shouldn't really work, because time spent sleeping is not converted in a liniar fashion into "rest at night".

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Could you point to a source for the number?

I'd also like to hear more about this one. Sounds very interesting.

Originally Posted by Brutha

If the theory that you should sleep multiples of 90 minutes at a time is right (4,5/1,5 seems to be based on it) working down shouldn't really work, because time spent sleeping is not converted in a liniar fashion into "rest at night".

The '90 minute cycle' thing is only a starting point. Everyone will be slightly different (my own cycles seem to be just under 80 mins at the moment); as well as the fact that different sleep lengths serve in different ways.

A short (10-20 minute) nap may not be quite the same as a 90 minute one, but it's far more refreshing than not having one at all. You'll also see people who've successfully adapted to a mid-length nap, such as dadeon's 45 minute version. I'm not quite sure why this mid-length version works (effectively 2x22.5 minute naps perhaps), but it obviously does.

Out of interest Brutha, what's your current sleep routine? Personally I'm still fairly close to the 4.5/1.5 thing (slightly shortened now to fit an 80 minute cycle). Occasionally the nap gets broken up into 2 x 20 minute chunks (I realise this doesn't add up to 80 minutes, but it's OK for a day or two).

[andrew]

I'm pretty much struggling hard with this. I had it good before vacation, but now i'm just wacked. I just can't seem to get myself out of bed.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by andrew

I'm pretty much struggling hard with this. I had it good before vacation, but now i'm just wacked. I just can't seem to get myself out of bed.

Hi Andrew,

Have there been other changes in your life that would require more (or better quality) sleep? It may simply be a matter of increasing your core sleep by a cycle every now and then. Taking a second nap can also help (I tend to do both if I need an extra boost).

Also : is it taking a bit longer now to get to sleep? Just wondering if you're now waking slightly before the end of your cycle (or just into the beginning of the next one).