Switching to Biphasic Sleeping? Start here.

[David Hausladen]

Originally Posted by andrew

See, my biggest problem is that falling asleep for me is such a huge variable. Anywhere from 20-80 minutes, depending on how tired I am. So setting my alarmclock for 90 minutes etc is really hard. Do any of you use your internal clock?

If by "internal clock" you mean sleeping without an alarm clock, then...sort of. I set an alarm clock for 3 hours (the length of both my core sleep and nap), but more and more I'm waking up before it goes off. But I don't think I could have gotten my body adapted to the schedule without an alarm clock or some other way to wake me up after the right amount of time.

As for falling asleep, which seems to be the main concern: I don't have a sure-fire way to deal with the problem, but here's an idea: Add the 30-minute period of time before each nap where you lay in bed and read, listen to relaxing music, or whatever calms you down to the point where you're likely to be able to fall asleep during or at the end of that 30-minute period. If you don't fall asleep during or within 15 minutes after that period of time, you're not tired enough for some reason, too stressed out to fall asleep, or both. If you think it's the latter, Scott's method of making a to-do list, described above in answer to this same question, would probably work. If you think it's the former, your best bet is to get up and move around, then go to sleep when you do feel tired, setting your alarm clock so that your sleep time is still a multiple of 90 minutes. Even if at first this means that you get too little sleep to be fully rested, the sleep deprivation will mean that the next night you'll probably be tired enough to fall asleep on time. After a few days, I suspect your body will get used to what you're trying to get it to do, and it won't be so hard to fall asleep quickly and on time.

I hope that's helpful to you.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by andrew

See, my biggest problem is that falling asleep for me is such a huge variable. Anywhere from 20-80 minutes, depending on how tired I am. So setting my alarmclock for 90 minutes etc is really hard. Do any of you use your internal clock?

Personally, if I don't feel I could fall asleep within 10-15 minutes, I don't even try. This means I can always set the alarm for around 100 minutes (for a nap), knowing I'll be awake at the right time.

David's advice about getting back up and moving around is good. If you just can't get to sleep, there isn't much point in simply lying there. Get up and start doing something, and you'll often find you become tired shortly after.

As for using the internal clock, yes and no. I've always got a pretty good idea of what time it is, and if I tell myself to 'wake up at 5:00' for example I'll come pretty close. However, I still set the alarm each time - just in case.

[andrew]

Right, so you guys are all on the same wavelength as me.

Well I pretty much have everything I need to get started, so tonight's the night!

Cheers!

[ViceVirtue]

Hi all. Could someone comment on the amount of impact missing a nap will have while on a biphasic schedule? Or perhaps how closely a nap can come to the main sleep and yet still be effective (e.g. nap at 11pm-12:30am, sleep 2am-6:30am)?

I'm interested in trying this out, but I know that I will not be able to accomodate a nap in the evenings every single night. I'd say at least once or twice a week I'm involved in activities after work and do not get home until 9-10pm. Most days, I am home by 6pm and would expect to begin a nap by 6:30-7ish.

Just trying to gauge how sensitive one might be to varying the schedule. Would you recommend biphasic sleeping if you were me, or is this only for someone with a very consistent schedule?

Thanks!

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by ViceVirtue

Hi all. Could someone comment on the amount of impact missing a nap will have while on a biphasic schedule? Or perhaps how closely a nap can come to the main sleep and yet still be effective (e.g. nap at 11pm-12:30am, sleep 2am-6:30am)?

I'm interested in trying this out, but I know that I will not be able to accomodate a nap in the evenings every single night. I'd say at least once or twice a week I'm involved in activities after work and do not get home until 9-10pm. Most days, I am home by 6pm and would expect to begin a nap by 6:30-7ish.

Just trying to gauge how sensitive one might be to varying the schedule. Would you recommend biphasic sleeping if you were me, or is this only for someone with a very consistent schedule?

Thanks!

Hi ViceVirtue.

The impact of missing a nap - or any change to your routine for that matter - is much more noticeable during the adaptation phase (the first week or so, while your body gets used to the new routine) than it is later on. If you can't take the 90 minute nap at your usual time, try a couple of short ones (15-20 minutes or so) at other points in the day. Or simply revert to monophasic for a night (warning: you'll need a lot more total sleep this way. It isn't simply a matter of adding your nap length to the end of the core sleep period, it'll be core sleep + at least double the nap length).

As for having a consistent schedule - it helps, but it certainly isn't essential. Just try to get it as close as possible (at least for the first week).

A quick thought on the closeness of the nap to the core sleep : it probably varies from person to person, but in my case the refreshed feeling after taking a nap lasts for about 5 hours. Moving the nap closer than this to the core sleep period doesn't yield any benefit, but it doesn't hurt either. Moving it further away didn't work in my case (I was getting tired well before my scheduled core sleep began); but it's OK for an occasional day. Just not as part of a regular routine.

[hazerfazer]

I've been lacking in energy for a long time. But I'm 16 and work out a lot so I would like it if I could possibly get an official study or something to show my dad eventually to see if he would let me do this. I think I might try it over winter break, I can't stand being tired all day long.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by hazerfazer

I've been lacking in energy for a long time. But I'm 16 and work out a lot so I would like it if I could possibly get an official study or something to show my dad eventually to see if he would let me do this. I think I might try it over winter break, I can't stand being tired all day long.

Hi Hazerfazer.

There aren't any official studies (that I'm currently aware of) on biphasic sleeping. If you want something to show your dad, take a look at some of the reports from people (myself included) who've actually tried this - I've got links to a few on my site.

If you're going to try it over the break, set out a time period for the trial (say 30 days) and the times each day you intend to sleep (perhaps 1.5 hours in the evening, and then 4.5 hours about 5 hours later).

Let me know if you - or your dad - have any questions on this type of sleeping. It's definitely worth trying.

[Ati]

Originally Posted by ViceVirtue

Hi all. Could someone comment on the amount of impact missing a nap will have while on a biphasic schedule? Or perhaps how closely a nap can come to the main sleep and yet still be effective (e.g. nap at 11pm-12:30am, sleep 2am-6:30am)?

I'm interested in trying this out, but I know that I will not be able to accomodate a nap in the evenings every single night. I'd say at least once or twice a week I'm involved in activities after work and do not get home until 9-10pm. Most days, I am home by 6pm and would expect to begin a nap by 6:30-7ish.

Just trying to gauge how sensitive one might be to varying the schedule. Would you recommend biphasic sleeping if you were me, or is this only for someone with a very consistent schedule?

Thanks!

I've been asking these same questions. I've done a biphasic trial for about 34 days now. What I have found with missing a nap is that inadvertently I'll oversleep the night, although once or twice I've gotten up on time (I'm aiming at a total of 6 hours per 24, in a 1.5hr and 4.5hr block.)

How close a nap should come is another great question I've muddled around about. I've found that I can get by with ending a late nap maybe 1.5 hours before going to sleep for the night. Although this is far from optimum (if I do that every day, I'm more tired, possibly because of lengthening the time AFTER nightsleep and BEFORE napsleep, rather than because of a shorter time between napsleep and nightsleep, make sense?), it's better than skipping the nap altogether in that I'm a bit less likely to oversleep the following night.

My schedule variances have been major I'd say, mainly because of things that happen during the day. You can see them on the "post your polyphasic sleep logs here" thead. Looking at them I'd think I'd barely done this at all .....however, I feel really great energy wise and I think it's been a real positive change, as crazy as it comes out on paper. I'm hoping to further refine this process, but I'm also wondering if doing it some of the time might just have a positive effect. Seems so for me anyway...hey, what might happen if I get it down straight more of the time...scary indeed

I'd give it a try and see what you can do about the later night days in your week. If you go the 1.5 and 4.5 hr mix, maybe you can find other times to get them in on those days? Judging from posts on this board and other blogging etc. I don't think a very consistent schedule is critical, although undoubtedly it would help!

good luck and keep us posted!

Originally Posted by hazerfazer

I've been lacking in energy for a long time. But I'm 16 and work out a lot so I would like it if I could possibly get an official study or something to show my dad eventually to see if he would let me do this. I think I might try it over winter break, I can't stand being tired all day long.

Hi hazerfazer, I've found substantial increases in baseline energy levels using biphasic sleep patterns. Polyphasic sleeping is quite a bit more radical and I haven't tried it, although it seems to work for some folks.

Biphasic sleep is not that far a drift from monophasic, usual patterns. Add a nap and shorten the night time sleep time a bit and you have it. Do have a look at the information on 90 minute cycles though, I think that's probably important.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Scott Bird

Hi Hazerfazer.

There aren't any official studies (that I'm currently aware of) on biphasic sleeping. If you want something to show your dad, take a look at some of the reports from people (myself included) who've actually tried this - I've got links to a few on my site.

If you're going to try it over the break, set out a time period for the trial (say 30 days) and the times each day you intend to sleep (perhaps 1.5 hours in the evening, and then 4.5 hours about 5 hours later).

Let me know if you - or your dad - have any questions on this type of sleeping. It's definitely worth trying.

[kpreston]

I've just finished my first semester, and in celebration, I "threw away" my alarm clock. Unfortunately, my body seems confused on how much sleep it really needs, because I've found that without an alarm, I sleep sometimes as long as 13 hours . At first, I ignored it because I thought this was just my way of catching up on my sleep debt, but it's been a little over two weeks now.

I'm interested in biphasic sleep, but I'm not sure if I can make it fit my schedule. I work from 2:00PM to 8:00PM. I use 8:30PM to 11:30PM as my free time to do what I want (work out, play on the computer, homework, go out, etc). After that, my girlfriend will usually talk to me on the phone for about an hour.

Come January (next semester), classes will start at around 9:00AM.

This leaves my average bed-time at around 1:00/1:30AM.


If possible, I'd like to adapt to biphasic sleep without having to change my normal schedule (because it's what I'm happy with). So far, it looks like everyone takes their 1.5hour nap early in the evening. I was wondering if it was possible for my 1.5hour nap to be early morning, around 1:00AM, and take my core sleep at 4:00. This would allow me to get up in time for school, and I wouldn't have to change my lifestyle.

But does this defeat the purpose of biphasic sleep? I'll only be awake for an hour and a half before going back to sleep. Would I be better off continuing to sleep monophasicly, or can I still get the benefits of biphasic sleep with this schedule?

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by kpreston

I've just finished my first semester, and in celebration, I "threw away" my alarm clock. Unfortunately, my body seems confused on how much sleep it really needs, because I've found that without an alarm, I sleep sometimes as long as 13 hours . At first, I ignored it because I thought this was just my way of catching up on my sleep debt, but it's been a little over two weeks now.

I'm interested in biphasic sleep, but I'm not sure if I can make it fit my schedule. I work from 2:00PM to 8:00PM. I use 8:30PM to 11:30PM as my free time to do what I want (work out, play on the computer, homework, go out, etc). After that, my girlfriend will usually talk to me on the phone for about an hour.

Come January (next semester), classes will start at around 9:00AM.

This leaves my average bed-time at around 1:00/1:30AM.


If possible, I'd like to adapt to biphasic sleep without having to change my normal schedule (because it's what I'm happy with). So far, it looks like everyone takes their 1.5hour nap early in the evening. I was wondering if it was possible for my 1.5hour nap to be early morning, around 1:00AM, and take my core sleep at 4:00. This would allow me to get up in time for school, and I wouldn't have to change my lifestyle.

But does this defeat the purpose of biphasic sleep? I'll only be awake for an hour and a half before going back to sleep. Would I be better off continuing to sleep monophasicly, or can I still get the benefits of biphasic sleep with this schedule?

Hi Kpreston.

It's definitely easier to switch to a biphasic routine when you've got a bit more control over your schedule; though it's certainly not impossible in other cases. Looking at your current routine, it seems you've got things pretty tight.

If you take the nap at 1:00am and core sleep at 4:00am - as you suggested - you may find that the 1.5 hours inbetween doesn't seem like enough. You probably want at least 3-4 hours here to make it seem worthwhile.

Perhaps the best thing to do for now - since you said you're quite happy with your current routine - is to refine your monophasic sleep, or try a triphasic approach (core sleep plus two short naps). Either way, you can cut lot off that 13 hours

[Ati]

This is a real interesting question and I wonder how much individuality there is, both between people and between time periods for individuals. Lots of variables work their way into whether or not this "works", including what a person is aiming for.

Kpreston, it sounds like you are looking to reduce the total number of sleep hours (from 13 anyway?) as well as gain other benefits from biphasic sleep (I have found there are some real additional benefits), is that right?

I agree, Scott, that oftentimes 1.5 hours between nap and sleep seems a bit short. Recently, I really couldn't fall asleep well after such a routine, that was different for me. Also, that throws in a really long awake period, especially if done for a while. At the same time, it seems it might work for an individual for a while anyway.

I decided this morning that once holidays are over (house full of company coming and I've no idea what I'll do til New Year's--probably free sleep like the rest of 'em ), I'll change the experiment......

Since I have gotten an amazing amount out of this whole thing in regards to energy level, focus while awake and actual sleep quality while I'm sleeping, I'm going to keep playing with it and see just what essential elements are most important for this particular individual (that would be me ) at this particular time (that would be now and the near future ). I've identified these elements after the last 30 odd days of experimentation posted mainly on the "post your polyphasic sleep logs here" thread.

-----I've found that planning for 90 minute cycles is real helpful and my sleep physiology quite easily takes to that pattern (e.g., this morning, with a long day and night ahead of me, I decided to add a cycle..so instead of getting up at 3:45am---alarm was set, but I woke up spontaneously at 3:36 to make that decision )---I decided to get up in one more cycle, at 5:15. Sure enough, I fell back to sleep, awakened very briefly at 4:15 then back to sleep and woke up spot on at 5:15am, ready to go).

-----I've found that sleeping in two shots per 24hrs allows me great waking time (focus and energy) and great sleeping time (sleep ), with for me, 6 hours per 24, while if I sleep monophasically, I seem to need 7.5 hours. Don't know why, just seems to be that way. I know that I come to feeling sleep deprived after about 4 straight days of only 6 hrs monophasic sleeping and if I cut that into two bites, it's fine.

-----For me, situationally, being able to get up early with going to bed "normally" is a hoot. I get up at 3:45am much or most of the time (with variances as circumstances change, like now), and going to sleep at 11:15pm seems to work great. It allows me to participate in evening activities with family and friends and to get up early to play and practice music while getting an early start at my "day job" , all in the same day.

-----Last, I think I've found that I can engineer the time slots pretty well while at home and while traveling (across two time zones once or twice a month for a week or so at a time), so that even if the times of nap and night sleep change, I can pretty much approximate something similar to my home biphasic sleep pattern and its benefits. That's almost like budgeting other things--I mainly have to work out a 1.5hr slot and a 4.5hr slot during each 24 hour period. 1.5 hrs on a plane is superb, almost like a free lunch .

So, come New Years, I think I will:
---- Aim at that 1.5 plus 4.4 hrs per 24
-----Generally aim at 11:15pm - 3:45 am night sleep and 1.5 hrs nap pretty soon after I get home at 5 or earlier, or later, depending upon the afternoon evening circumstances.
------If, due to circumstances (that's what it generally is), I need to alter those times, then keep to the 1.5 and 4.5 time slots.
-----Log the hours I actually do this and anything relevant about the effects (to see how my "engineering" works, stuff like how close to night can nap be, etc.)

I'll be back to check in but less than before for the next week or so. '

Good luck, all and Happy Holidays!

Ati

[Scott Bird]

Ati, you've got me thinking.

Although I'm extremely happy with a biphasic routine (for the same reasons as you - more refreshed etc), I'm always keen to tweak things a bit and further improve the routine. In particular, the idea of getting up at 3:45 sounds great - nice and quiet throughout the house, so I can get plenty of work done before the rest of the world wakes up

Next year is looking to be off to a great start. Let the experimentation begin. Have a great Christmas/New Year (I'll be away for week or so). See you all in 2007.

[hazerfazer]

I'm wondering...how do you set your alarm for 90 minute cycles? Do you estimate from the time you think you will fall asleep, and give yourself ten minutes before the cycles actually begin?

And what does anyone think of a 6/1.5 hour split? I won't be saving any time but it might provide me with a lot more energy. I haven't had much energy for a while. I also want to make sure I am getting enough sleep to support my growth.

[kpreston]

I'm still interested in trying to sleep biphasically. So...

How hard would it be for my body to adapt to sleeping biphasically 4/7 of the week? Or how disruptive is it to shift nap/core times around often?

For instance, I could take my 1.5 from 8:30PM - 11:00PM and core from 2:30PM - 7:00AM wednesday to saturday, and shift the nap and core forwards a few hours on the other days.

[rvgrinsven]

Originally Posted by hazerfazer

And what does anyone think of a 6/1.5 hour split? I won't be saving any time but it might provide me with a lot more energy. I haven't had much energy for a while. I also want to make sure I am getting enough sleep to support my growth.

Exactly my quesiton as well. Just got my first nap on my new schedule, but I am still in doubt if I'll start 6/1.5 or 4.5/1.5. Maybe 6/1.5 is a better idea at least for the christmas time. And after that I can always go 4.5/1.5 for the real time saving. Does anyone have experience with the transition between the two?

[Radek Pilich]

Hi guys,

I am trying to make the transition to biphasic sleep routine, today is the third day, I am getting gradually less and less sleep in the night and I am quite tired now, so I hope I will finaly fall asleep during today's nap, because I couldn't do that yet. I just want to ask you, if I should try to stick to time schedule for the first days, or if it is better to 'listen the body'. I would like to take nap from 18:30 to 20:00 and than core sleep from 1:00 to 5:30 (going to bed around midnight at the moment).
The second question is related to falling asleep during the nap. I have found that having a hot shower before sleeping helps me a lot to quickly fall asleep, but I don't know how to help myself to switch to sleeping mode during the nap. I am absolutely not going to take third shower during my days

[Scott Bird]

Hi guys. Hope everyone had a great Christmas.

Originally Posted by hazerfazer

I'm wondering...how do you set your alarm for 90 minute cycles? Do you estimate from the time you think you will fall asleep, and give yourself ten minutes before the cycles actually begin?

And what does anyone think of a 6/1.5 hour split? I won't be saving any time but it might provide me with a lot more energy. I haven't had much energy for a while. I also want to make sure I am getting enough sleep to support my growth.

I just estimate the nap times as you suggest. In my case a cycle is around 80 mins, and I just add on a bit of time for falling asleep (based on how tired I feel). It's just a normal alarm clock, nothing fancy.

A 6/1.5 split sounds fine. As the main benefit is an improved sleep quality, this can be a definite improvement over 7.5 hours of monophasic sleep.

Originally Posted by kpreston

I'm still interested in trying to sleep biphasically. So...

How hard would it be for my body to adapt to sleeping biphasically 4/7 of the week? Or how disruptive is it to shift nap/core times around often?

For instance, I could take my 1.5 from 8:30PM - 11:00PM and core from 2:30PM - 7:00AM wednesday to saturday, and shift the nap and core forwards a few hours on the other days.

Consistency really helps, particularly during the transition phase (the first week or so). If you can, devote a week to establishing a set routine before trying a 4/3 day split like this. It's still possible, but having a set routine is much easier.

Originally Posted by rvgrinsven

Does anyone have experience with the transition between the two?

Only the other direction. I went from 3 hours to 4.5 for the core sleep, and that felt fine. I'd imagine that a 6 to 4.5 shift would be just as simple. Easy enough to switch back if it doesn't feel right.

Originally Posted by subdrum47

Hi guys,

I am trying to make the transition to biphasic sleep routine, today is the third day, I am getting gradually less and less sleep in the night and I am quite tired now, so I hope I will finaly fall asleep during today's nap, because I couldn't do that yet. I just want to ask you, if I should try to stick to time schedule for the first days, or if it is better to 'listen the body'. I would like to take nap from 18:30 to 20:00 and than core sleep from 1:00 to 5:30 (going to bed around midnight at the moment).
The second question is related to falling asleep during the nap. I have found that having a hot shower before sleeping helps me a lot to quickly fall asleep, but I don't know how to help myself to switch to sleeping mode during the nap. I am absolutely not going to take third shower during my days

Hi subdrum. Welcome aboard.

That's quite a big gap between your nap and core sleep. Is that because of your schedule for other things, or was that part of your planned sleep routine? Moving them a little closer may help.

As for taking a shower, they just make you tired (at least in my case) because they're warm and comfortable. Climbing into a warm, comfy bed seems to work just as well; or are you taking the naps elsewhere? On a couch, sitting upright in a chair etc?

[Radek Pilich]

Originally Posted by Scott Bird

Hi subdrum. Welcome aboard.

That's quite a big gap between your nap and core sleep. Is that because of your schedule for other things, or was that part of your planned sleep routine? Moving them a little closer may help.

As for taking a shower, they just make you tired (at least in my case) because they're warm and comfortable. Climbing into a warm, comfy bed seems to work just as well; or are you taking the naps elsewhere? On a couch, sitting upright in a chair etc?

Thank you for welcoming Scott :]

I have planned the gap between nap and core sleep as it is. I definitely want to get up at 5:30, that's optimal for me. And 5 hours gap seems optimal for me too, because I can either study or go out with friends (I am university student). So I want to leave it as it is (at least for the first few days/weeks) if somebody is not going to tell me it's 'not so good'.

The warm and comfortable bed idea is nice, I am going to warm up my blanket before my nap today :]

Cheers!

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by subdrum47

Thank you for welcoming Scott :]

I have planned the gap between nap and core sleep as it is. I definitely want to get up at 5:30, that's optimal for me. And 5 hours gap seems optimal for me too, because I can either study or go out with friends (I am university student). So I want to leave it as it is (at least for the first few days/weeks) if somebody is not going to tell me it's 'not so good'.

The warm and comfortable bed idea is nice, I am going to warm up my blanket before my nap today :]

Cheers!

5 hours definitely gives you enough time to go out and do things. You're the best judge of how tired you are though, and you may want to experiment a little with the times (after the first week or so as you mentioned) to find the timing that works best for you.

In my case, 4 or 4.5 hours is reasonable - any more than that and I start getting tired in a hurry. No doubt this varies from person to person.

With the comfy bed thing, I should mention that I avoided doing this for the first few weeks, simply as it made it more difficult to get up (it just takes away the incentive when it's cold outside the bed). I do it now though, as I'm used to leaping up when the alarm sounds. It's just a matter of getting used to it.

[rohank]

Hello to all,
I am a new college student, and am very interested in getting my sleep schedule to be more efficient. I'm typical in the fact that I sleep very late, and get up very late. Or just get up early for 8am classes and feel horrible for the rest of the day. I recently stumbled across the biphasic sleep schedule and was wondering if I could get a bit more information about it.
1)While I like the idea of getting up so early in the morning, the location of the 90 min nap time is what intrigues me the most. Most of my evening classes/activites are centered around 6-10 pm, and as that was the labeled time for a good first nap I was wondering how feasible it is to instead take the nap somewhere between 2 and 6pm.
2) My second concern is that I have a very hard time falling asleep using the monophasic sleep schedule, and was wondering if that would carry over or be alleviated by changing to biphasic. If it does would it then be productive to take 20-45 min to fall asleep twice, effectivly getting rid of the 2-3 hours gained from changing?

Any help with these questions would be appreciated
Thanks!

[Scott Bird]

Hi rohank.

If you haven't read it already, there's quite a bit of info at the start of this thread on biphasic sleeping itself; including pointers to several other sources of information.

In answer to your questions :

Originally Posted by rohank

1)While I like the idea of getting up so early in the morning, the location of the 90 min nap time is what intrigues me the most. Most of my evening classes/activites are centered around 6-10 pm, and as that was the labeled time for a good first nap I was wondering how feasible it is to instead take the nap somewhere between 2 and 6pm.

The idea of an afternoon nap is fine. Personally I find it more difficult to sleep during the day, but that's due to environment more than anything.

One thing to keep in mind is that you'll feel refreshed and alert following this nap, but only for 4-5 hours or so (about 5 hours in my case, but I'm sure it varies from person to person). Because of this you might want to keep the nap toward the end of this period; say, 4:15 - 5:45.

Originally Posted by rohank

2) My second concern is that I have a very hard time falling asleep using the monophasic sleep schedule, and was wondering if that would carry over or be alleviated by changing to biphasic. If it does would it then be productive to take 20-45 min to fall asleep twice, effectivly getting rid of the 2-3 hours gained from changing?

The biphasic sleeping won't actually reduce the time it takes to fall asleep (although the sleep itself is deep and refreshing), so this is something to address before making the switch. I wrote a piece on sleep hygiene recently which may help.

Incidentally, 20 mins isn't too bad. 45 may be a bit much

[Joe826]

Hey guys,

Great work here. I started my biphasic sleeping a week ago today and it's been pretty cool. I'm now sleeping in 4.5 hour/90 minute chunks, but before that I would sleep 7-9 hours a day with no regard to the quality of sleep I was getting (eating right before bed, drinking coffee late, etc.)

Just a couple questions for those of you who've been at it for sometime:

- Every morning I have a period of atleast two hours were I'm so tired and groggy that I don't feel like getting anything done. I'm just without motivation at all, so I usually end up watching TV and trying not to fall back asleep. I usually hit my stride by 8:30 or 9:00 if I'm lucky. This might just be a result of my adaptation phase (today is only day 7), but can any of you comment on this? Is there anything you do in the morning to get yourself going earlier?

- At what point should I start tweaking stuff? Right now i'm sleeping from 1:30 AM to 6:00 AM, and then from 2:30 PM to 4:00 PM. I noticed that my nap is taken several hours earlier than most of you take yours. I don't struggle with being overly tired at night so I'm not sure that it's a problem, but if it's some how affecting my time in the morning then maybe I should adjust.

I just find that taking the 2:30 PM nap frees up my evening, and since I work at home, the rest of the world is still at work.

- What health habits have you found beneficial? I use to drink lots of coffee and soda throughout the day and even up until I went to sleep, so now I'm trying to cut back. I drink one or two cups of coffee in the morning (mostly to wake myself up), and then maybe a cup of green tea throughout the day. I think this might be interfering with my 2:30 nap.

- Any nap tips? I find that there's alot more noise to contend with during the day from neighbors and the street. I don't think I've had a really good nap yet.

Thanks for all the help so far, this thread has been a great resource.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Joe826

Hey guys,

Great work here. I started my biphasic sleeping a week ago today and it's been pretty cool. I'm now sleeping in 4.5 hour/90 minute chunks, but before that I would sleep 7-9 hours a day with no regard to the quality of sleep I was getting (eating right before bed, drinking coffee late, etc.)

Just a couple questions for those of you who've been at it for sometime:

- Every morning I have a period of atleast two hours were I'm so tired and groggy that I don't feel like getting anything done. I'm just without motivation at all, so I usually end up watching TV and trying not to fall back asleep. I usually hit my stride by 8:30 or 9:00 if I'm lucky. This might just be a result of my adaptation phase (today is only day 7), but can any of you comment on this? Is there anything you do in the morning to get yourself going earlier?

- At what point should I start tweaking stuff? Right now i'm sleeping from 1:30 AM to 6:00 AM, and then from 2:30 PM to 4:00 PM. I noticed that my nap is taken several hours earlier than most of you take yours. I don't struggle with being overly tired at night so I'm not sure that it's a problem, but if it's some how affecting my time in the morning then maybe I should adjust.

I just find that taking the 2:30 PM nap frees up my evening, and since I work at home, the rest of the world is still at work.

- What health habits have you found beneficial? I use to drink lots of coffee and soda throughout the day and even up until I went to sleep, so now I'm trying to cut back. I drink one or two cups of coffee in the morning (mostly to wake myself up), and then maybe a cup of green tea throughout the day. I think this might be interfering with my 2:30 nap.

- Any nap tips? I find that there's alot more noise to contend with during the day from neighbors and the street. I don't think I've had a really good nap yet.

Thanks for all the help so far, this thread has been a great resource.

Hey Joe (I'll refrain from the usual song-related jokes, just this once).

Congrats on making it through the first week. That's the most difficult part, so it's just a matter of refining things from here.

I'm not about to be hypocritical enough to say 'give up coffee' or anything (I still have a couple of cups a week, and several cups of green tea a day); but it will affect your sleep. For me, it disrupts the nap even if I have it 7-8 hours beforehand.

This disruption generally means I can't get a full 80-90 minute nap, and instead I only have 15-20 minutes. I'll then try and get another 20 minute nap a few hours later, or simply add 90 minutes onto my core sleep. Either way, I'm fine the next day.

There are a few things you can do.

1) Carry on with your current routine for another few days and see if you're tired simply due to the transition phase (you will definitely be tired during this phase, and only you can tell how much this affects you).

2) Hold off on the coffee for a week or two, and see if that makes a difference. Have a couple of cups of green tea instead - it'll still have caffeine, but usually not as much.

3) Move the nap to later in the afternoon/evening. This will both increase the distance from the coffee, and reduce the time until the core sleep. Win-win.

As for nap tips, I've got (and heard from others on this site) plenty of them. Try the things above first though, so you can see which one works the best for you.

Healthwise, it's just the stuff your parents have probably been telling you for years. Less coffee, less alcohol, less sugar and more exercise. The usual suspects.

[Joe826]

Thanks for the reply Scott. I'm a bit frustrated this morning because it was my hardest morning yet, but I'm going to stick with it for another couple of weeks atleast. One thing I noticed is that I haven't remembered my dreams since my first and second day doing this. Not sure if that means anything, but I thought it was odd.

How long does it take you to get going in the morning? How long do you lay in bed after you wake up, and then how long does it take for you to kick that groggy feeling?

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Joe826

Thanks for the reply Scott. I'm a bit frustrated this morning because it was my hardest morning yet, but I'm going to stick with it for another couple of weeks atleast. One thing I noticed is that I haven't remembered my dreams since my first and second day doing this. Not sure if that means anything, but I thought it was odd.

How long does it take you to get going in the morning? How long do you lay in bed after you wake up, and then how long does it take for you to kick that groggy feeling?

Joe,

it usually only takes 5-10 minutes to really wake up in the mornings. Sometimes it's almost instant (that 'leap out of bed' feeling), and occasionally it's a little longer than the 10.

There are two main times during the day when I always feel tired: shortly before the nap and shortly before core sleep. I usually nap at 19:30 and I start getting really tired about 19:20. My body's definitely adjusted to the new sleep times.

As for dream recall, it's about the same now as it has been for a couple of months. I often remember dreams when I'm in that first 10 minutes after waking; but unless I write them down I can't recall them after that.

Quick question : how are you setting the alarm (determining the time)? I usually allow 15 minutes or so to fall asleep (depending on how tired I feel), and set the alarm for 80 minutes (or 4.5 hours) + 15 minutes. I often wake up just before it sounds, and these are the days on which I have the clearest dream recall.

[Joe826]

Originally Posted by Scott Bird

Quick question : how are you setting the alarm (determining the time)? I usually allow 15 minutes or so to fall asleep (depending on how tired I feel), and set the alarm for 80 minutes (or 4.5 hours) + 15 minutes. I often wake up just before it sounds, and these are the days on which I have the clearest dream recall.

I usually allow 15 minutes as well, and that seems to be pretty accurate. It's day 9 now and I'm still waking up really tired from my naps. I'm going to give it till the end of the week before I start adjusting things though.

Do you have any tips for getting a better grasp on your REM cycle times? I was a little baffled today, because I took my nap, and woke up 70 minutes later feeling refreshed and alert.

Instead of getting up, I decided to sleep the extra 20 minutes, and when I woke up I think I was in the middle of my REM sleep because I had that ultra groggy/tired feeling.

Is it possible that my cycle is really only 70 minutes long? How can I get a better handle on this?

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Joe826

Do you have any tips for getting a better grasp on your REM cycle times? I was a little baffled today, because I took my nap, and woke up 70 minutes later feeling refreshed and alert.

Instead of getting up, I decided to sleep the extra 20 minutes, and when I woke up I think I was in the middle of my REM sleep because I had that ultra groggy/tired feeling.

Is it possible that my cycle is really only 70 minutes long? How can I get a better handle on this?

Joe,

If you wake up that close to the estimated wake-up time, you may as well just get up. Especially if you feel refreshed and alert.

Calculating the cycle length really doesn't have to be complicated; if you keep waking up after 70 minutes feeling refreshed, that 70 mins is probably it. Everyone will be different in that regard (too many health + age + fitness variables for it to be otherwise) - as a reference point, mine is about 80 minutes.

[bgkarma]

Thanks for posting all this info. I think I'm going to give biphasic a try. Poly I found a little off-putting because of my busy work schedule, but this could be more doable.

I already tried something a little different last night:

Went to bed at midnight, then woke at 4 AM, turned on the light next to the bed and read for a good half hour. Also used the bathroom and rinced mouth with mouthwash. Went back to sleep and woke around 8AM. By reading a little, this helped elevate my dream content, and also had a more restful sleep because of the bathroom break.

Anyway, it's good to be back on the forums after a long break, and I look forward to posting a few more notes on how this experiment goes (probably in the morning hours ).

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by bgkarma

Thanks for posting all this info. I think I'm going to give biphasic a try. Poly I found a little off-putting because of my busy work schedule, but this could be more doable.

I already tried something a little different last night:

Went to bed at midnight, then woke at 4 AM, turned on the light next to the bed and read for a good half hour. Also used the bathroom and rinced mouth with mouthwash. Went back to sleep and woke around 8AM. By reading a little, this helped elevate my dream content, and also had a more restful sleep because of the bathroom break.

Anyway, it's good to be back on the forums after a long break, and I look forward to posting a few more notes on how this experiment goes (probably in the morning hours ).

Hi bgkarma.

Breaking up the sleep a bit (into two chunks, that is) certainly helps, and I suspect the biphasic's a bit easier than a typical polyphasic schedule. Hope all goes well.

[Cactus]

Hi! I've recently switched to biphasic sleep. My schedule is 1,5h from 20:30 to 22:00 and 3h from 3.00 to 6.00. It is my 8th day on this schedule and I
was wondering how long does it take to get adjusted to 4,5h of sleep. I feel great after my 1,5h hours nap, but I'm quite tired during the day. Does it take longer to get used to 4,5h of sleep than to 6h of sleep?

Another thing is that I've overslept a couple of times from 3.00 to 7.30. I've first woke up at 6.00 but somehow turned off the alarm and woken up automatically at 7.30. It felt pretty good, but I'd much rather sleep 4,5h. It's great to do all my work from 12.00 to 3.00 when everyone is asleep and wake up
at 6 to read all the newspapers before they wake up.

So should I switch my schedule to 6h instead of 4,5h or just wait to get adjusted?