Diet without bread and grains. Suggestions?

[Jennihul]

Originally Posted by jtrikster

If we knew everything than we wouldn't still be doing experiments and revamping dietary recommendations now would we?

My philosophy about food and nutition is the opposite of yours: The more we know, the sicker and more diseased we get because we have the uncanny ego to think we can do it better than evolution and nature.

Nature "knows" what humans screw up.

Jennifer

[jtrikster]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

I recently read where modern franken-wheat has something like 15% protein compared to wheat from the Paleo days which was 3% and didn't grow in fields, just sparsely here and there. Certainly not enough for any kind of harvest.

The amount of protein in the wheat is mainly responsible for the massive increase in Celiac disease and allergies to wheat we see today. True allergic reactions depend on a protein component.

Our bodies just weren't meant for this product.


Jennifer

Expandning on your statement. When you said wheat allergy, I had never heard of it before and was curious about the subject, so I went to google. I initially was looking for numbers and stats; how many people are actually suceptible to wheat allergy.
I couldn't find any numbers, but some detailed information. The protein you mentioned is actually a group of proteins called gluten, which is different for humans to digest. What was interesting is that it actually errodes the small and large intestinal lining which can at times lead to partially digested gluten to enter the bloodstream; it's supposed to be absorbed for nutritional value, but not partially digested. I'm guessing this is what would lead to celiac disease since celiac refers to the celiac trunk, a major artery that branches off of the abdominal aorta (thank god for anatomy class )

You can find the info on wheat here: Wheat Allergy Information

It seems to me that over the centuries, wheat has been keeping smarter, in terms of evolution and survival. Glutens are the mechanism that will eventually keep us from eating wheat, since it doesn't want to be eaten.




I don't necessarily believe we have varying nutritional philosophies. Nature does know much more than we do. I do have to say that after doing a bit of reading on glutens I am rethinking my stance, but I do not feel I have enough information to go one way or another one this one. I haven't questioned each side enough.

Another thing too, you say that because we find it difficult to digest gluten, that we were just not meant to eat it. Well on the other hand, we can't digest cellulose or otherwise commonly known as dietary fiber. So are we just not meant to eat foods with cellulose? I would say not since it helps with relieving of toxins.

I use dietary fiber as an analogy to gluten because maybe there is some sort of other nutritional reason to eat it. I don't sway either way since I haven't read enough on this aspect of the subject but both options are possible. This is something though that I would like to do a little experimenting with, either by looking at what others have done or do it to myself.

I meet with my nutrition professor on Tuesdays and Thursdays and I'll bring up the thread to see what he thinks.

Thanks for the conversation. It's been good.

[Vantage72]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

My philosophy about food and nutition is the opposite of yours: The more we know, the sicker and more diseased we get because we have the uncanny ego to think we can do it better than evolution and nature.

I believe it like this: the more I read and the more I think i know about the food, the more I am out of touch with my natural tendencies, my body and my feelings.

My body will tell me exactly what food is good for me, the question is: am I listening?

[jtrikster]

Originally Posted by Vantage72

I believe it like this: the more I read and the more I think i know about the food, the more I am out of touch with my natural tendencies, my body and my feelings.

My body will tell me exactly what food is good for me, the question is: am I listening?

You don't have to get out of touch with nature if you fill yourself with information. If anything, it would allow you to get more into touch because it tries to answer the how and why. This kind of reminds me about the whole argument between science and religion. Is science religion? Or is it the answer to the how and religion is the answer to the why?

[Wildside]

I've been doing a bit of research on gluten and wheat allergys, mostly trying to find a way that I can enjoy some bread without feeling all guilty, wondering if I am doing my body harm by eating it. What about sprouted grain breads? By sprouting the grain first it seems to really minimize the effects of wheat sensitivities and gluten problems. Here is a link to Silver Hills Bakery bread (which is pretty much what I always buy) Silver Hills Bakery
I am going to eat it for the next week or so and then try not eating for a week and see if I feel a difference.

[Jennihul]

Originally Posted by jtrikster

Another thing too, you say that because we find it difficult to digest gluten, that we were just not meant to eat it. Well on the other hand, we can't digest cellulose or otherwise commonly known as dietary fiber. So are we just not meant to eat foods with cellulose? I would say not since it helps with relieving of toxins.

I think the difference is that gluten is a protein which is a subtance our bodies are designed for break down and utilize. However, gluten is a difficult protein for our bodies to do that with. Not all proteins were meant for human consumption. Such as cow's milk. Which explains why there are so many more allergies to cow's milk than to the cow meat itself.

But cellulose is an "insoluable" substance which means our bodies do not possess the capacity to break it down. Cows, with four stomachs that each contain differing levels of acid and enzymes, do break down plant fiber and utilize the microscopic levels of nutrition contained within it.

Fiber is just an innocent bystander to the rest of the fruit or vegetable...along for the ride, so to speak. It's presence does benefit us by helping clean out our colons of waste and occasionally acting as a buffer to regulate the absorption of certain nutritional elements such as sugars. It also carries certain toxins out of our bodies, by default.

Thanks for the conversation. It's been good.

My pleasure, sincerely..

Jennifer

[Excellent Lodestar]

Originally Posted by gettingskinny

Why are grains bad?

Mark’s Daily Apple » Blog Archive » Are There Any Good Carbs?

It's so easy to walk around @ 10% bodyfat without bread now, it feels like I'm cheating

Good luck everyone

[The Cloud]

I'm also doing a diet that eliminates most carbohydrates not derived from fruits and vegetables. I find that a great way to fill up quick is with peanut butter. If you're worried about gaining weight, it might not be the best option, but nothing will fill you up faster than a spoon full of peanut butter. Plus, while it is high in fat, much of it is unsaturated (just try to avoid ones with the word "hydrogenated" in the ingredients list) and helps balance out the saturated fats from meat. Also, it is high in protein, which your body can convert into most of the glucose that your body needs (the brain and the kidneys are pretty much the only organs in your body that NEED glucose for energy).

I agree with you, a diet high in grains and starches is not particularly natural, and it over-stresses the body's insulin response. At least this is my opinion, and I've done a bit of research on it (my major in college is strongly oriented toward biology, so I'm not uninformed). Like you said, this diet is much more consistent, because instead of getting a big spike in blood glucose followed by a strong insulin response due to the toxicity of having a high blood sugar content, there is a more slow and steady conversion of fats into energy (in addition to gluconeogenesis from protein). This seems to me to result in a much more stable level of energy, where instead of your body having to react to what you eat to avoid negative consequences, it is reacting positively to use what it needs when it needs it.

Additionally, several recent studies have linked insulin to aging. So it is possible that by reducing the body's use of insulin you're extending your lifespan. I don't remember exactly where to find the papers I read, but if you go onto pubmed.com and cross-reference insulin and aging you'll probably find some interesting stuff.

[MentalClarity]

The problem with something like grains happens to be two-fold.

Grains themselves are fine when sprouted. This releases all vital enzymes for nutrition and digestion.

But the grains are high in carbohydrates (sugar). They get stored in metal bins that become leaky. They get wet. Then they get moldy.

Since molds love carbs and sugars they gravitate towards grains, as well as high sugar fruits and veggies. Once they get on these grains they secret mycotoxins (fungal-poisons). Once they do this, even if the mold was washed of, the toxins are still present in the grain.

Not only that but we regularly breathe in molds, and eat a lot of yeast in our diets (bread, chips, beer).

So if we are to assume that we can not avoid fungi (molds, yeasts) completely, even if we eat clean grains that were not contaminated at all, we would still be feeding fungus inside our body. Trust me when I say fungus can cause a whole laundry list of illnesses.

The best "grains" are not grains at all but are called as such because they are used in culinary in the same fashion. Quinoa, Buckwheat, Amaranth, Kamut (non-stored ancient wheat) seem to be alright.

My rule of thumb when eating anything with carbs is: Carbs<Fiber=OK.

Check out "Know The Cause" if you want more.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Without grains (whole grains for me), I would be starving really bad. I eat a good amount of grains in a given day, but around 90% of them are whole grains (mostly wheat). For some people, grains can cause serious problems. My brother has Celiac Disease and he was getting anemia from gluten. Not only that, but I read that 1/3 of the population has gluten sensitivity, so it's good to try a no grain diet and see what happens.

Personally, I've never had a problem with grains, so I never had the drive to get off of them. But stick to healthy foods that aren't grains. I'm sure there are plenty of gluten and grain free diets out there on the net you can look up.

As Mark Twain once said, "Beware of reading diet books. You could die of a misprint. I just eat what I like and let the food fight it out inside me," or something like that. If it feels good keep doing it. If not stop.

[CoolBee]

Personally, I gave up grains (bread, pasta, rice, oats, cereals of all sorts) 6 days a week back in early April and lost 23kg (48lb) quickly (in 15 weeks), simply, easily and with hardly any hunger pangs after 40+ years of trying to diet incorporating all that grains crap that the supposed 'food pyramid' devised on poor 'research' told me I should eat and left me constantly fighting hunger and at war with myself unless I went and shovelled a loaf of bread down my face daily consequently regaining weight.

I feel fresher, more alive, my sleep needs have reduced by around 1 hour a day on average, other health benefits are in evidence including my teeth which were heavily 'banded' and almost transparent a few months ago are distinctly 'filling in' and becoming more opaque. I'm thinking, if cutting grains had this impact on my teeth, what positive impacts is it having on my skeleton? there are other benefits I won't mention in public!

On my recent diet, I ate 8400 calories per week (including the one day a week when I was allowed grains - mainly for social reasons, one of my closest friends is Italian and loves to cook a heavily pasta and grain orientated menu and she was heart-broken at the thought I wouldn't eat it - and exercised walking 30km a week and swimming 5-6km a week for the duration.

I didn't need a substitute because I wasn't hungry!

Anyway, for me the essential thing was my core diet of vegetables (including peas and carrots), fuul (fava beans), eggs or feta cheese or tuna PLUS making it up to the requiste calories by the judicious addition of chocolate, icecream, yoghourt, potatoes, cheese, nuts. I don't eat much fruit because it makes me hungry, I don't particularly like it, and so is a waste of calories IMHO.

I am now in the process of adjusting back to a more generous calorie allowance adding in 700 calories a week or eg extra cheese, yoghourt, meat.

I can say 100% for sure, that this diet has worked for good. Everything feels so right and different.

Check out Paleo recipes, there's a few freebie recipe books downloadable online - I'm not strictly paleo, but it gives me ideas for eating a full calorie non-grain based diet (I'm rebuilding up to around 14000-15000 a week while losing the last few kg en route).

[EvolveWithFlavor]

Didn't get a chance to read everyone else's reply, but I would say definitely don't forget the power of oils and Nuts to fill you up.

That was my first reaction before embarking on a more "extreme" diet, but you eventually get over it. You lose your taste for meat and senseless carbs that in the past "filled you up."

I still occasionally go back, but I firmly know that you CAN be satisfied. And I'm a big muscular dude as well.

[Lauxa]

Sauerkraut! I just made my first batch of homemade sauerkraut last week and it was so good that I feel that I will be making it a new staple in my diet.

Shred one cabbage. Add 2 Tbsp salt and 1 Tbsp carraway seeds (optional). Mash with meat hammer or pestle for 10 minutes to release the juices. Place in glass jar and cover with water, let it sit in the pantry for 3-5 days then move to the refrigerator.

It's loaded with enzymes and probiotics (store bought sauerkraut is pasteurized and dead) and a great complement to your grainless meals, plus cabbage is very inexpensive.

Also homemade stocks are awesome, they are loaded with gelatin and easily digestible nutrients. My friend is doing the GAPS (Gut and Psychology Syndrome) diet which is grainless / sugarless and it calls for drinking a little broth and eating a little sauerkraut with each meal. I will tell you how I make them if you are interested. But I mostly use them up by cooking brown rice in them, so I'm less sure what to do with them in a grainless diet.

And of course remember your green smoothies.