detoxing or getting a cold

[wolfgang]

I started trying to drink more water but only get up to about 1 liter, thinking it should be more like 2 liters. And also added spirulina/chorella and some other green foods. Now I feel sick. How do I know if it's just detoxing or getting a cold? Maybe it's both. That I started some detox which stressed my system and then the virus got in and now have a cold going on.

It almost seems like I was trying to do something good for my body but then I end up sick. So then why do this at all? I guess the answer is it eventually will be better for me.

[NotesMaeve]

Whenever I clean up my diet, I get snotty, cold-like symptoms, too. This is why I'm a huge fan of phasing things out gradually. Seems to work better for me.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

Whenever I clean up my diet, I get snotty, cold-like symptoms, too. This is why I'm a huge fan of phasing things out gradually. Seems to work better for me.

snotty- made me laugh, that's what it is a lot.

I did see a doctor and she gave me some nose spray and a "just in case" prescription for antibiotics if it turns into more of a sickness in the next week.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

snotty- made me laugh, that's what it is a lot.

I did see a doctor and she gave me some nose spray and a "just in case" prescription for antibiotics if it turns into more of a sickness in the next week.

Heh! My NICKNAME these days is "Snotbag."

Good plan. Also, Sudafed is a freaking godsend if you can get that.

[VacMan]

Just a random question:

Why would your body "detox?"

Doesn't that just seem weird?

Why would eating well cause you to feel bad?

And if that's the case, why not just keep eating "bad" to avoid feeling bad?

I'm trying to visualize/understand how "detoxing" would happen...

Is the concept that you have hidden "toxins" that are being trapped by all the bad food, and then the good food unlocks the flood gates of toxins to wreak havoc on your system for a short period of time?

Doesn’t it seem like the exact opposite should happen?

For example:

Your eating good, all of a sudden you eat really “bad.”
Shouldn’t you feel bad?

OR

Your eating bad, all of a sudden you eat really “good.”
Shouldn’t you feel good?

The concept is a strange one for me to swallow.

[NotesMaeve]

Same reason a drug like Copaxone can make you feel REALLY crappy initially. The body rebuilding itself is exhausting, draining work. That's my guess.

[VacMan]

Rebuilding would suggest that at one point your body stopped building.

Wouldn't your body be working harder while you are eating "toxic food" because it would be trying to get rid of the toxins while still mantaining normal body functions.

Once you remove the toxins, I would think your body would keep building at the same rate and utter a sigh of relief as you've taken a big strain off of it's shoulders.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by VacMan

Rebuilding would suggest that at one point your body stopped building.

Wouldn't your body be working harder while you are eating "toxic food" because it would be trying to get rid of the toxins while still mantaining normal body functions.

Once you remove the toxins, I would think your body would keep building at the same rate and utter a sigh of relief as you've taken a big strain off of it's shoulders.

If you think of it as affecting your body like a chronic disease. Hate to use MS as an example, but:

Without Copaxone, an MS patient's body is whacking away at the nervous system and when an attack stops, the body is just kind of there. When you start Copaxone and maybe even regenerating some nerves, owie. It hurts. Like when you start working out again after a long time and you're all sore.

It could easily be the same with food. Your liver and other organs are getting a workout, and it's just like, "Ow." It's passing all this gunk that hasn't been able to clear.

[VacMan]

I know this is a bit off topic with MS and all, but Copaxone is glatiramer acetate, and from what I can tell the negative side effects are because it's not a really targeted drug.

No one really knows why it works, and I think the negative side effects come from it being a toxin as well as helping with MS symptoms.

It's just one of the only things that work to a degree right now, so people use it even with the negative effects becuase it's one of the only ways of fighting MS.

I don't think the negative side effects are from your body rebuilding.

Side effects of glatiramer acetate include injection site reactions and pain and an immediate systemic post-injection reaction consisting of flushing, anxiety, and chest discomfort.

Ref:
http:// www .medscape.com/viewarticle/527706_7

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by VacMan

Just a random question:

Why would your body "detox?"

Doesn't that just seem weird?

Why would eating well cause you to feel bad?

And if that's the case, why not just keep eating "bad" to avoid feeling bad?

I'm trying to visualize/understand how "detoxing" would happen...

Is the concept that you have hidden "toxins" that are being trapped by all the bad food, and then the good food unlocks the flood gates of toxins to wreak havoc on your system for a short period of time?

Doesn’t it seem like the exact opposite should happen?

For example:


The concept is a strange one for me to swallow.

That's what I've been wondering too. Why if I start trying to eat better I get detox going? I answer that myself as, like dam that is overflowing our systems are full of junk but the dam is keeping most of the junk inside. There a certain amount of buffering behind the dam that happens because the cells can't keep up with the continual toxin flow. Sort of like ballons puffing up. They can't keep up because we eat junk not food. Then if we give the cells better food, they open the dams - which is to say they are better at processing or letting out waste. Some of which is because we'd be giving the cells less waste to keep them busy with. Maybe?

Does anyone know what the mechanics of detox are?

And then also I wonder, if detoxing is a stress on the immune system and then you cen get sick during the detoxing.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by VacMan

I know this is a bit off topic with MS and all, but Copaxone is glatiramer acetate, and from what I can tell the negative side effects are because it's not a really targeted drug.

No one really knows why it works, and I think the negative side effects come from it being a toxin as well as helping with MS symptoms.

It's just one of the only things that work to a degree right now, so people use it even with the negative effects becuase it's one of the only ways of fighting MS.

I don't think the negative side effects are from your body rebuilding.



Ref:
http:// www .medscape.com/viewarticle/527706_7

Nerve regeneration is painful, and you are right about Copaxone being a toxin, but yeah, nerve and muscle rebuilding between relapses? Hurts.

Point being, when you start something good for you, it doesn't always feel good to start. Eating a salad instead of a burger for lunch might initially give you the runs, but doesn't mean it's worse.

[VacMan]

I agree:

Running a mile when you've never ran in your life can sure feel like pain...

And breaking down muscle in the gym to get stronger can make you sore...

Those things happen because you really are "hurting" yourself. You are breaking down tissues and causing your body real stress.

Eating a salad when your used to burgers can cause discomfort, but so can eating a burger when your used to salads.


Change is painful. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.


What I'm saying is...

Take "detoxing" with a grain of salt.

If your changing your eating habbits and you feel worse off, don't just attribute it to "detoxing."

You could really be hurting yourself.

I'm not completely sold on the "detox" theory.

[NotesMaeve]

Agreed.

Was talking about this last night regarding long term raw food diets. Moderation, boys and girls. Moderation.

[wolfgang]

I don't think I was going overboard. I probably drank 2-3 cups of water and started trying to drink 8 but really only got to 5-6 cups. And I added 6 grams spirulina and 6 grams chorella and some maybe 6 grams of a green food type suppliment (wheat grass, barely juice, alfalfa sprouts etc). I maybe cut back on coffee to twice week and also instead of 2-3 glasses of wine or beers every other day - maybe 1 glass once or twice a week. The greens and less coffe/wine-beer and more water wouldn't be hurting me. My diet is pretty omni but low on meat, big salads, oatmeal or granola mornings, fruit for snacks and sometimes junk SAD type lunches and that diet has been in place for awhile - no big change there.

Maybe those green foods kicked my butt into detox. I can't imagine them ultimatly being bad for me in those amounts. They shouldn't hurt me. So then I feel like I have a cold and when that happens I don't drink coffee or wine-beer, just doesn't appeal to me so I am free of that. But also I let up on the green food for a bit too now. Maybe that will save me or I got into a detox that stressed me and now I have a bug to take care of. I can't tell, or maybe it's plainly the same - detox or a cold - same stress on similar organs and just have to let the body flush it out, either the bug or the toxins.

Still wondering what detox is. Stored junk that comes loose and causes havoc on the way out? Why would that be? I guess I can google.

[wolfgang]

Detox and Intestinal Cleansing Guide

Catching the flu is really the body needing a break from too much accumulated toxins -so they say in that link!

[VacMan]

wolfgang,

Don't believe everything you read.

There's no supporting evidence of that fact.

Why would your body suddenly feel horrible and just start seemingly randomly cleansing itself?

Contagious cleansing?

Ahh! Don't sneeze on me I'll start cleansing! I don't want to miss work!

Also I don't know if you noticed, but they are selling an ebook, and also have affiliate ID's for selling cleansing products. (That means they get money when you buy the products they recommend.)

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by VacMan

wolfgang,

Don't believe everything you read.

There's no supporting evidence of that fact.

Why would your body suddenly feel horrible and just start seemingly randomly cleansing itself?

Contagious cleansing?


Also I don't know if you noticed, but they are selling an ebook, and also have affiliate ID's for selling cleansing products. (That means they get money when you buy the products they recommend.)

yeah -I don't buy that colds are the same as detoxing. colds are baterial or is it viral - well some sort of bug. toxins flushing is something else. but then again maybe the cold or flu bug can be stuck in our fat or cells until released when we clean up internally by eating better. then it's up to our immune system to react and get the bugs out.

it's actually a difficult google job to find the mechanism/theroy behind detoxing in terms of what happens like Steve's raw Jan '08 thing. Why did some people have "detox"? I just run into products and they assume that you need to detox but talk about what actually is happening. Some say we store toxins in our fat cells. maybe that right. fat is a deposit area for what we can't get rid of while our system was too overloaded.

[VacMan]

wolfgang,

Because there's really no info about "detoxing" I don't believe it's necessary/true.

Also...

If the flu virus gets trapped in fat cells by "bad" food and goes symptom free then what the heck... Why not eat bad food, it keeps the viruses inactive right?

Seriously though, I doubt bad food traps any toxins/viruses in your body.

If bad food does bad things to you, then I'd only think they'd complicate issues, not somehow magically lock in toxins until you start eating "good" again.

What a great slogan for a company...

"Eat good to feel like crap again!"

Or maybe if "detoxing" is true then Fast Food companies should adapt:

"Eat here to avoid unwanted detox symptoms"

[wolfgang]

lol

I guess the why is that it makes your cells or degestion more effecient. There are lots of explainations that are in general - I want specifics of the mechanics. Sort of like we know what insuline does in the body. We should also know what toxins do in the body and how they get released. Of coarse the liver filters our blood. But I am looking for what cells hold onto what toxins and then why eating a certain way makes a detox happen. It seems those raw foody people would chime in.

jury is out

[Keith]

re: the snottiness have you tried using a neti pot? That can be good for cleaning out all the gunk.

[Mags]

Just a note on water... the usual advice is 8 glasses a day, as you mentioned. I asked a urologist about this and he said that 8 glasses doesn't necessarily work for everyone - some people need less. As long as your urine is a pale yellow then you're getting enough water. I get by and feel fine on about 4 - 5 glasses of water a day. Any more than that, and I actually start to feel a bit nauseous.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I did see a doctor and she gave me some nose spray and a "just in case" prescription for antibiotics if it turns into more of a sickness in the next week.

antibiotics for a cold??

Antibiotics are a sledgehammer. They kill your intestinal flora (which can lead to candida infections, vitamin deficiencies, energy lack and the like), create acidity in your body, weaken your immune system and if you take them regularly you can get resistant to them, which can be dangerous if some day you're having a really big problem and really would need them to save your life but your body doesn't react anymore.

Seriously, I would never take antibiotics for a cold. A cold just means that your body needs a break and has some dirt to throw out. Listen to it and let it do what it has to do. Don't go to work, slow down a bit, pack yourself in warm clothes, go for long walks outside to get some fresh air, drink herbal tea, eat fruit and veggies, especially parsley. Take ecchinacea. You won't die because of a cold...


edit: Plus, I thought colds are viral infections?

edit2: I've just read that colds are indeed viral infections. You know that antibiotics are completely useless against viral infections? Seriously, don't take them. You'd just be contributing to bacterial resistance and harming yourself.

[VacMan]

Yea,

Colds are caused by viruses, not bacteria.

Antibiotics = completely useless against colds.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by VacMan

Yea,

Colds are caused by viruses, not bacteria.

Antibiotics = completely useless against colds.

thanks for that clarification.

I don't like to take antibiotics - but when I had pneumonia I was happy for antibiotics.

I didn't get that doctor I saw. I tried to ask if she thought is was a virus or bacterial - she kind of said it's both or they're same in a hurry halfway out the door. And I was surprised that she didn't at least listen to my lungs. Especially after saying I have some tight chest pain.

Rose, yup - I don't want to take antibiotics for all those reasons and actually this doctor was telling me she doesn't hand out antibiotics easily, that it's for certain cases only - but then proceeded to give me a just in case prescription.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I don't like to take antibiotics - but when I had pneumonia I was happy for antibiotics.

I'm not saying they are always a bad thing. They can be crucial life savers in some severe cases. That's precisely the reason why we should take them only in severe cases. Taking them for every broken nail is irresponsible IMO.


Change your doc. This one doesn't sound very competent

[impaul99]

On Detoxification:

When you eat crap, the body can only handle so much of it in the bloodstream and the liver can only filter so much of it at a certain time. What the body does to protect itself is that it wraps toxins in fat and stores the fat as far away from the organs as it can. That's why you get fat on your butt and love handles etc, not a big lump of fat surrounding your heart or lung or whatever.

Then, when the liver has caught up with the "house cleaning" it can slowly start to metabolize fats and release the toxins for elimination, otherwise they would stay in your system forever.

When you change your diet to a clean one, the body sees it as an opportunity to clean up, and that is why you go through "detox".

The body is very complex and it has many, many different ways of defending itself. Storing toxins for later elimination is one of them.

It's not like you eat a Big Mac, drink some Coke, eat some chips and some twinkies and then you go to the bathroom, take a crap and all that bad stuff is out of your body.

[Rose of Cairo]

Oh, Paul! That would mean that as long as I eat too much crap for my body to handle, it's forced to gain weight, to store the toxins. And as long as I eat enough crap to keep my body busy eliminating it, I will not lose weight.

That makes perfectly sense to me and would explain why when I'm eating crap I'm not able to lose weight, no matter how much I exercise and how little I eat.

But why do some people eat loads of crap every day and do not put weight on? That's unfair, I'm jealous

[VacMan]

Personally,

I've never seen any evidence that says you can't lose weight with "refined" or "bad" "processed" foods.

I dare anyone to get within an acceptable calorie range to lose weight and pay a little attention to their macronutrient ratios, and I can almost guarantee you'll lose weight regardless of "toxins."

Fat = energy storage.

When your body isn't using the energy you're giving it you'll store that energy as fat.

Thats all there is to fat gain.

I believe that toxins have little to no effect on fat gain or loss.

[wolfgang]

thanks impaul99

So our fat is kind of like toxin balloons that handle the overflow for later, if we ever get around to it.

You are big on pH too, right? Am I remembering that from other threads? I've also read about acidic foods causing fat storage. That clogged arteries happen when your blood vessels need protecting from too much acidic stuff running around.

Sp toxin get wrapped in fat. Do people know that mechanism? Like does a specific organ of the body do that? The liver?

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by VacMan

Personally,

I've never seen any evidence that says you can't lose weight with "refined" or "bad" "processed" foods.

I dare anyone to get within an acceptable calorie range to lose weight and pay a little attention to their macronutrient ratios, and I can almost guarantee you'll lose weight regardless of "toxins."

Fat = energy storage.

When your body isn't using the energy you're giving it you'll store that energy as fat.

Thats all there is to fat gain.

I believe that toxins have little to no effect on fat gain or loss.

Might be both. Fat is stored excess energy but then also a place to put junk that the organs can't filter out yet. It's interesting to think, though. If someone isn't eating enough and also is ingesting toxins - what happens to them? They probably get weakened immunity systems faster then some eating enough and also having toxins in the mix.

And then with this logic - if you eat junk eat lots of it so the toxins can safely sit in your fat .