High fat and high calories in vegan diet??

[Erock]

Hey guys, I just finished my 30 day trial of being vegan, and I'm not sure whether I want to continue or not. I would only go back to being vegetarian, but I just never really felt full on a vegan diet.

I don't blame veganism at all and I think it is the ideal way of eating, but because I am a teenager and I never made the effort to go grocery shopping on my own (and instead tried to instruct my parents to get stuff) I'm sure I missed out on a lot of options.

I'm pretty sure I didn't eat enough calories, especially because I am pretty athletic and have a fast metabolism. I also want to add some fat, because I am skinny, so my question is, what vegan foods are high in calories and/or fat that are easy to obtain. One person suggested healthy oils like olive oil. I'm looking for more food like that.

Thanks a ton

[escapee]

Drmcdougall vegetarian diet is not exactly the high fat diet that you are looking but maybe it would give you a better boost on energy than your current one .

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Erock

I'm pretty sure I didn't eat enough calories, especially because I am pretty athletic and have a fast metabolism. I also want to add some fat, because I am skinny, so my question is, what vegan foods are high in calories and/or fat that are easy to obtain. One person suggested healthy oils like olive oil. I'm looking for more food like that.

* Avocado is a personal favourite (~180 calories per avocado).
* Nuts have heaps of calories (~190 cal for 30g of mixed nuts)
* Grains like quinoa or brown rice are calorific and filling (quinoa is a good source of protein, too).
* Beans (1/2 can baked beans = ~180 cals)
* Fruit isn't that filling, but some of it is pretty calorific (~170cals per large mango, 75 cals per banana or apple) and a few pieces of fruit usually keeps me full for hours
* Olives (~10 calories per olive)
* Seeds (lotsa fat in these! 63 cals per tablespoon)

That should get you started.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Walnuts, flax seeds, avocados, fish oil, all good sources of fat and most of them have Omega-3, which is essential for proper brain function. All kinds of nuts and seeds are great. Don't forget that if you don't feed full, eat more veggies and fruits. That is also beneficial.

[cgs]

I'm in the same predicament. I'm 6'3" and really athletic - I bike everywhere and rock climb, so I'm always burning mad calories. After going vegan my weight dropped from about 151 to 148. Hopefully it will stabilize there. I realized that I would forget to eat sometimes when I'd get caught up in something. So now I'm attempting to always eat before I get too hungry, and I bought bags of nuts and dried fruits to snack on after and between meals. But hey, look at the Asians. They are all rail thin, and it seems to be doing them some good. I also asked the doc about my situation, and he said not to worry about it, as being thin is good for longevity (FYI my BMI is 18.5 - not underweight, but right on the border).

[Melanie]

Aha -- I can help with this one.

I did a 6-month raw-vegan experiment last year and put on 10 pounds (which was definitely not my plan). I was eating a lot of green salads with olive oil dressing, avocados, nuts and nut butter, and especially drinking almond milk, which I made myself. Also, if you're vegan but not raw, don't forget tofu: the favorite food of sumo wrestlers! You could easily make a tofu version of chankonabe -- their staple.

This article has a recipe link:
Sumo wrestlers fatten up on chankonabe. - By Franz Lidz - Slate Magazine

[Amadeus]

I'm still on a vegan diet after 2 months. I use to eat loads of meat and dairy for most of my life. I actually feel like I am breathing for the first time. My blood pressure is normal now. It just feels like my cardiovascular system is healthy. I can't explain this feeling.

[veganvegan]

High Fat Vegan Foods
Granola – 1 cup – 33.1 grams
Pancakes – 4 small – 7.5 grams
Olive oil – 1 tbsp – 4.5 grams
Avocado – 1 – 15-20 grams
Cashews – ½ cup – 31 grams
Almonds – ½ cup – 35.6 grams
Brazil nuts – ½ cup – 46.4
Macadamia nuts – ½ cup – 49.4
French fries, frozen – 10 fries – 4.4
Source: Fat Content of Foods, Table, Weight Control, Weight Loss, Strategies for Weight Loss, Dieting, Holisticonline.com

Recommended Daily Fat Intake
Total calories
per day Saturated fat
in grams Total fat
in grams
1,600 18 or less 53
2,0001 20 or less 65
2,200 24 or less 73
2,5001 25 or less 80
2,800 31 or less 93
Source: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922553.html

[Boreas]

You can also try eating dried fruit instead of fresh, as dried fruit will give a lot more calories and energy. Just be careful with prunes and apricots as they are high fiber, and maybe go more for dates and raisins.

Dried fruits + nuts = very high calorie

[Fullcrum]

I understand how it is with parents and buying enough food and enough varied food.

If I ate as much as I wanted, they'd go broke.

If you continually extol to them the health benefits, maybe show them how authorities agree on the benefits of your way of eating, they'll be more inclined to go along with it.

[SmellyOrc]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I think my question is along the same line as the OP's: How can one get around 5000-6000 calories per day, with at least 190 gram of protein per day, on a vegan diet, without having to eat a bag of nuts every day?

[andrew112]

It is not the calorie itself that makes one gain weight; it is "bad" substances such as omega-6 fatty acids that causes one to gain more weight.

[SmellyOrc]

Omega-6 ain't bad!

[andrew112]

Originally Posted by SmellyOrc

Omega-6 ain't bad!

Omega-6 fatty acids slow down metabolism.

[SmellyOrc]

Where did you get that info? :/

While it's true that our Omega-3:Omega-6 ratio is way different that what it should be, and we should all eat less omega-6 and more omega-3, I do not for an instant that Omega-6 slows down metabolism. Nearly everyone on this planet eats like 30 times more omega-6 fatty acids than omega-3 fatty acids. A high percentage of the population in rich countries is obese, true. But if Omega-6 really slows down metabolism in any significant way, that percentage should be nearly 100%, instead of like 30% which it is now (not sure, but should be around that I believe) .

[raphnix]

As for your drinks. some people recommend grape juice instead for any other citric juices.

[andrew112]

Originally Posted by SmellyOrc

Where did you get that info? :/

While it's true that our Omega-3:Omega-6 ratio is way different that what it should be, and we should all eat less omega-6 and more omega-3, I do not for an instant that Omega-6 slows down metabolism. Nearly everyone on this planet eats like 30 times more omega-6 fatty acids than omega-3 fatty acids. A high percentage of the population in rich countries is obese, true. But if Omega-6 really slows down metabolism in any significant way, that percentage should be nearly 100%, instead of like 30% which it is now (not sure, but should be around that I believe) .

If one does not consume any food that contains omega-6 fatty acids, one will lose weight.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by SmellyOrc

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I think my question is along the same line as the OP's: How can one get around 5000-6000 calories per day, with at least 190 gram of protein per day, on a vegan diet, without having to eat a bag of nuts every day?

I can understand people in serious training needing 6000 calories a day (eg Lance Armstrong), but who needs 190g of protein? That seems excessive. The vegan weightlifing sites I visited seemed to indicate that the body can only build so much muscle per day, so overloading on proteins didn't really help.

If you want calories and nothing else, add starches. Unless you're on a raw diet, you can get lot of (vegan) calories through pasta.

Protein is easy to get with nuts, soy products, legumes,etc

The Vegetarian Society - Information Sheet - protein

[funchy]

Originally Posted by andrew112

Omega-6 fatty acids slow down metabolism.

That's interesting. That's the first time I heard that, but I am just now reading up on omega-6's.

A friend is big into the Dr Perricone "anti inflammatory" diet which centers around omega 6... anyone hear of that diet?

[SmellyOrc]

Originally Posted by funchy

I can understand people in serious training needing 6000 calories a day (eg Lance Armstrong), but who needs 190g of protein? That seems excessive. The vegan weightlifing sites I visited seemed to indicate that the body can only build so much muscle per day, so overloading on proteins didn't really help.

With all respect to you and others who believe one doesn't need much protein for muscle synthesis -> I don't care. I educate myself on a lot of subject surrounding and including weight training, and from that I'm led to believe that one does need around 1 gram of protein per lbs of body weight. Taking 1 gram as a guideline, I want to bulk up to 190+ lbs, hence why I need ~190 gram of protein a day. I already need around 5000 calories just to maintain my body weight at 166 lbs (I'm 6'3 tall, with a very fast metabolism). Obviously, I'm gonna need around 6k calories a day if I want to bulk up to, and maintain, a body weight of 190 lbs.

If you're interested, I'm pretty sure I can dig up some of that research about protein needs. Just gimme a shout.

Edit @ funchy: As far as I know, omega-3 fatty acids and its derivatives EPA and DHA are responsible for the anti-inflammatory effects. Doesn't make sense that one would center a diet around omega-6 for it's anti-inflammatory effects, since around 100% of the population in rich countries eat much more omega-6 than they need and is healthy for them.

[SunnKali]

Anti-inflammatory diets centers around the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6, not just omega 6. That's why they promote fish oil and fatty fish like salmon, and flax seeds which are high in omega 3.

Dr. Perricone | Nutrition | Anti-Inflammatory Diet - NV Perricone MD Cosmeceuticals

[Joeschmoe]

Originally Posted by andrew112

If one does not consume any food that contains omega-6 fatty acids, one will lose weight.

Well that's true, considering you wouldn't be eating anything. Everything, plant or animal, contains some Omega-6. It is an essential fatty acid, you must have it.

You seem to misunderstand some of the key concepts of Lipid and Biochemistry.

I broke down some of the components of the Fats in Human Adipose tissue in this post.
What is Human Fat?
This also applies to fat from food, it's all the same.

Omega-6 (18 chain with a double bond in the n-6 position) is one of two kinds of fatty acids, that we can not produce by other means, that we need in order to function properly.

Omega-3 (18 chain with a double bond in the n-3 position) is the other.

We do need to eat both of them. The issue is that they compete for receptors and if you have too much of Omega 6 or Omega 3 (although it's always too much Omega 6) it can impair the function of the other.

In other words your conclusions about fatty acids are incomplete and not well informed. There is a ton of information available on the internet, or if you take a basic organic chemistry class.

[Joeschmoe]

Originally Posted by SmellyOrc

Edit @ funchy: As far as I know, omega-3 fatty acids and its derivatives EPA and DHA are responsible for the anti-inflammatory effects. Doesn't make sense that one would center a diet around omega-6 for it's anti-inflammatory effects, since around 100% of the population in rich countries eat much more omega-6 than they need and is healthy for them.

That's correct, although I just want to point out that EPA and DHA can be synthesized from ALA, however they are not derivatives. They are themselves n-3 fatty acids.

They just have different lengths of carbon chains with a double carbon bond in the n-3 possitions.

Here is a table form wikipedia of the common n-3 fatty acids

Common name Lipid name Chemical name
16:3 (n−3) all-cis-7,10,13-hexadecatrienoic acid
α-Linolenic acid (ALA) 18:3 (n−3) all-cis-9,12,15-octadecatrienoic acid
Stearidonic acid (STD) 18:4 (n−3) all-cis-6,9,12,15-octadecatetraenoic acid
Eicosatrienoic acid (ETE) 20:3 (n−3) all-cis-11,14,17-eicosatrienoic acid
Eicosatetraenoic acid (ETA) 20:4 (n−3) all-cis-8,11,14,17-eicosatetraenoic acid
Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) 20:5 (n−3) all-cis-5,8,11,14,17-eicosapentaenoic acid
Docosapentaenoic acid (DPA),
Clupanodonic acid 22:5 (n−3) all-cis-7,10,13,16,19-docosapentaenoic acid
Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) 22:6 (n−3) all-cis-4,7,10,13,16,19-docosahexaenoic acid
Tetracosapentaenoic acid 24:5 (n−3) all-cis-9,12,15,18,21-docosahexaenoic acid
Tetracosahexaenoic acid (Nisinic acid) 24:6 (n−3) all-cis-6,9,12,15,18,21-tetracosenoic acid

[SmellyOrc]

Originally Posted by Joeschmoe

That's correct, although I just want to point out that EPA and DHA can be synthesized from ALA, however they are not derivatives. They are themselves n-3 fatty acids.

Yes, I know. Just a bad choice of words from my side
It's nice to have someone on the board with a good nutritional background. Me like

As far as the protein debate: T-Nation.com | Protein Prejudice

Read the article and the referenced studies.

[andrew112]

Originally Posted by Joeschmoe

Well that's true, considering you wouldn't be eating anything. Everything, plant or animal, contains some Omega-6. It is an essential fatty acid, you must have it.

You seem to misunderstand some of the key concepts of Lipid and Biochemistry.

I broke down some of the components of the Fats in Human Adipose tissue in this post.
What is Human Fat?
This also applies to fat from food, it's all the same.

Omega-6 (18 chain with a double bond in the n-6 position) is one of two kinds of fatty acids, that we can not produce by other means, that we need in order to function properly.

Omega-3 (18 chain with a double bond in the n-3 position) is the other.

We do need to eat both of them. The issue is that they compete for receptors and if you have too much of Omega 6 or Omega 3 (although it's always too much Omega 6) it can impair the function of the other.

In other words your conclusions about fatty acids are incomplete and not well informed. There is a ton of information available on the internet, or if you take a basic organic chemistry class.

What I meant was if one is already consuming too much omega-6 fatty acids and one cuts them down to a much lower level, to the point where one is consuming more omega-3's than omega-6's, one will lose weight.

[SmellyOrc]

Everything, plant or animal, contains some Omega-6.

Well, yeah. If you eat less omega-6, you eat less of basically everything and anything, so you would lose weight. Captain Obvious to the rescue!