Are you felling tired when you get up?

[Gambler]

Why is this happening? Why do We feel groggy and tired, and why don't we get up feeling rest? It should be natural, go to bed to rest, get up feeling rested? Why do we actually feel more tired in the morning than when we go to bed.
I talked to many people, and it is common experience having problems to get up in the morning(7, 8 A.M). I mean, there are people who feel good at morning but they are in the minority. It is clear this is common experience, look at the Steve's article headlines "How to get up feeling alert?". I mean, this should be normal. I remember when I was kid, I would woke up at 6 AM, and feel so much energy, I just couldn't stay in bed. I was looking forward to every day. And I think that all kids do wake up totally alert.

So, what is happening to us, so that we have sleeping problems. I feel tired even if I sleep 11 hours. I tried so many things, I forced myself not to eat in the evening, to have sleepiing schedule (for two months I have gradually getting up earlier and earlier, 2 minutes a day). But now I am back in sleeping late.
There must be something. I will definitely give up coffee, I gradually lowered number of coffees per day to one coffee/day. Tomorrow I am starting 60-day trial. If there is a connection between coffee and sleeping, as Steve says, I should see results in 60-day.

I am interested in your sleeping experiences, how much sleep do you get, when do you get up, are you feeling tired or not? Some interesting stories, rticles?

And I would be grateful for people who sleep great, to share some tips?

Have a nice....well, night!

[jwz]

Very nice topic!!!
I have the same problems also. I can't wait to see what people have to say about this.
I really want to fix my sleeping rhythm.

[spaceistheplace]

the common sleep cycle is 90 minutes. if you wake up in the middle of a cycle then you will naturally have trouble rising. train yourself using an alarm clock to wake up only after that cycle has completed (for example sleep in multiples of 90minutes).

[Sam988]

I also have the exact same problem. I hate it.



When i go to sleep, i'm full of energy and willing for the next day to start. I set my alarm clock to 8am (even though i could wake up at 11:30am). Then when it goes on, i wake up groggy (even if i have slept for 8 entire hours), willing to go to bed again, and that's exactly what happens; i sleep again, until 11:30am, which is the time when i actually have to get up. So after many trials, i decided to always go to sleep at around 4am and always wake up at 11:30am; i don't waste time sleeping then.


Appearently i can't get up if i don't really have to. When i'm groggy because i just woke up, all my determination and discipline go away, it's like i'm possessed by a lazy self, that takes over when i'm sleeping and groggy, i feel a "heaviness" that can only be eliminated if i lay in my bed and sleep again. I can only get rid of this lazy self when i get to be totally woken up and alert.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by spaceistheplace

the common sleep cycle is 90 minutes. if you wake up in the middle of a cycle then you will naturally have trouble rising. train yourself using an alarm clock to wake up only after that cycle has completed (for example sleep in multiples of 90minutes).

This may work theoretically, but how are we going to wake up exactly between one cycle and another? We take time to sleep, and we would have to be constantly setting the alarm to wake us up some minutes (the minutes we are laying awake in bed) later. It would never be something exact, if you know what i mean.

[Rossoneri]

I am actually reading a book on that problem. It's called Sound Sleep, Sound mind- 7 keys to sleeping through the night. I haven't finished it yet, but one of the reason they list are:

*It's not how many clock hours that you sleep that count, but how good sleep you get.

So you may just have poor sleeping quality.
Another reason could be that you don't have anything you look forward to that day.
Or when you try to wake up you notice how dark it is outside and go back to sleep like me

[DarkSociologist]

Yeah, even more than just being tired, when I wake up I get bags under my eyes that weren't there when I went to sleep.

Something that I've been noticing lately while trying to have a wake induced lucid dream (no luck yet) is that in order to fall asleep, it is a struggle for my body to give up it's consciousness. It's almost like it wants to stay awake and I have to force it to just give up and relax.

Another thing that I have noticed when sleeping in unusual places (like in hallways or at a desk) is that I often have dreams where I am aware that I am sleeping, picture myself sleeping, and I try to wake myself up, but I am unable to move my dream body while I am still unconscious. Here we can see that I am in a dream state and my mind wants my body to wake up, but it has to force it to wake up.

So maybe we're tired when we first wake up because we are still in the physiological state of sleep and are not completely done transferring our bodies to our awake state. I usually feel better in a few minutes after waking up.

[Gambler]

I also noticed that sometimes more sleep doesn't mean more energy.
If we are not rested after 8-9 hours of sleep, we won't be after 10, 11, 12 hours of sleep.
I set a goal for a November to get up at 7 AM once a week, just to see how it feels. Results are amazing. I would usually go to bed at 2, and at 7, I don't know, it was lot easier to get up. And during the day I wouldn't feel tired.
And I would stay up until 2 AM. So, that means that 5 hours of sleep means a lot. Of course, next day I would sleep 10 hours, but...

I think that guy who mentioned sleep cycles was right. 90 minutes you say...
Like REM cycles.

My grandmother have a saying about sleep disorders: "One who isn't at peace with him self, won't sleep well"

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Sam988

This may work theoretically, but how are we going to wake up exactly between one cycle and another?

Someone who'd like a technological solution might check this out:

Sleeptracker the Unique Alarm Clock, Wake Up Easier - Sleeptracker the Sleep Watch

It's a watch you wear on your wrist at night that detects when you're in the lightest stage of sleep close to when you mean to get up, and wakes you up at that point in the cycle.

Personally I just set an alarm for when I NEED to be up, and plan on waking up before then without an alarm, which I do at least 95% of the time.

[Gambler]

I must buy this thing. "Sleep tracker".
I read few reviews, geek.com among others, and it does miracles...
Obviously, we wake up groggy because we were in REM phase of sleep.
I wonder what is the natural way "not to" wake up during REM?

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Gambler

I wonder what is the natural way "not to" wake up during REM?

Free running sleep, or at least not using an alarm clock. The sleep tracker minimizes the negative effects of alarm clocks by going off at the least disruptive time. I tend to wake up most refreshed when I stay up until I'm tired and get up as soon as I wake up, entraining myself to not need an alarm.

[VacMan]

I have a sleeptracker.

But honestly, I never use it because it makes you chose between a 20 minute interval on when you want to wake up.

So you might wake up 20 mins before you really want to...

That bugs me for some reason.

I got a light alarm instead, that seems to work better for me. It simulates the sun rising and then beeps at the end.

It helps to wake me up gradually.

[EnduranceNinja]

I was just about to make a post on sleeping and stumbled upond this.

DarkSociologist,

I just had a nap like you mentioned. I hate naps because this happens 90% of the time. I wanted an hour nap and got over a 2hr nap. I knew I was sleeping and could even somewhat control my dreams but I wanted to wake up so bad. I have to admit it felt as if someone was tieing me down. And I get nap hangover everytime. A co-worker told me if you nap with your feet elevated this can stop it. I really have not given this a chance yet. And this only happens when I nap. My naps and my regular sleep are so different.

Gambler,

You describe my typical sleep pattern. I made it close to getting up at 6 am for about two weeks. I think I was very motivated so it helped. I now get up around 7am to 8am. I use to sleep in till noon so it is still progress. I still find it hard to wind down and get right to sleep also. Even when I feel tired I can't get to sleep right away. I always hate to see those commercails for sleep aids showing someone waking up all awake and happy. I actually think this is something of a myth to get up so awake. At least for me. And like you I drink coffee about two cups. It maybe more since I always give my cup a refill so it could be three cups some mornings. As for my hours of sleep 9 hrs is my usual. I have always been a sleeper who needs their 8 hrs. Thats what my mother has said. I wonder if maybe it is something you could be born with? As a baby I was a good sleeper and napper. And my daughter is too. She started to sleep through the night after 3 weeks old. I would be curious how everyone was when it comes to sleeping when they were a baby? and like many when I was in highschool I use to get up early somewhat easily. I even got up before school to do morning track paractice at 6 am. What happend to all of us?

[Gambler]

Endurance Ninja

Yeah, I see your point. But I don 't want to except that as a destiny.
I was counting that "oversleeped" hours. If I sleep 2 hours then usual, that is 700 hours per years. 700 working hours, that can be used, per year.
I mean, I waste 700 hours per year. That freaks me out.

For that amount of time, you can learn new language(for example I like Portugalese), new programming language, give 10 exams, earn thousands of $, make love 300 times, gain 20 pounds of muscle, read 70 books....many many things. Such a waste.

I always tell myself, "You won't die if you get up at 8". And it's true, of course.
While I was in army(community service) I was getting up at 7 : 30, and I wasn't sleeping in the afternoon, it was OK. When I finished it, I managed to continue with that sleep pattern for a month, but after that...

Really, what happened to us. I really don't know anyone who gets up feeling full of energy, getting up is always connected with feeling tired.

I forgot to mention, there is a yoga called yoga nidra, and is used for deep relaxation, 2 hours of yoga nidra can replace 8 hours of sleep. I have a book about this, the author is called Swami Satyananda. It is similar to autogenic training, there are exercises that you should record and playback.
Anyone heard about it?

[EnduranceNinja]

Gambler,

Yeah I totally understand what you are saying on time wasted. If I could I would only sleep 5hrs a night. I think it would be great if we could hear from those less than 5 hrs sleepers and see what they do. A good question, what happen to us. I wonder if in our youth we were very busy and active than now. I mean my nights in highschool and college were filled with homework. Now my nights are filled with watching TV or the web. I still workout close to what I did in highschool but maybe the intensity is not there. Maybe I need to reread Steve's article on becoming an early riser.

[JSB]

I used to live in an apartment with a window bed --- bed fixture built up against a giant bay window, with a large tree right outside. I would never set an alarm, since the sun would wake me up every morning as the light gradually increased.

I would always wake up refreshed, calm, and well-rested, which made me think that morning grogginess may have as much to do with sudden waking as with quality or quantity of sleep.

There are silent alarm clocks that gradually increase light levels over a period of 10 minutes or so. Maybe that would help you wake up more easily.

[mlc82]

EnduranceNinja,

on naps, try napping for more like an hour and ten minutes, or maybe even an hour and a half. When I wake up mid-nap at an hour, I usually feel like waking up after drinking way too much, however for some reason after about an hour and ten minutes, I'll usually almost jump out of the bed and wake up wired. It's weird, and I also hate waking in the mornings and drag myself out of bed.

I'm a total night person and generally am up til 2am (I could stay up to 5 or 6 easily if I allowed myself), but "free running" sleep usually means waking up at 11am or so, and for some stupid reason when I do that, all I can hear throughout the day is my dad in my head saying something about "You should be up at 5am and working at a REAL JOB". I love my dad, but it drives me crazy. In fact, almost any time I try talking to my mom and dad about potential income ideas, advertising for my self employed business, etc, I usually come away feeling at least mildly depressed.

[ginkgo]

Most Americans have sleeping problems. I have the answer for it. The cure was done by a guy Who could heal the sick, bring dead people back to life and walk on water. He did that stuff after fasting for 40 days.

People think that food gives you energy, but it is sleeping that does this. Eat all you want and do not sleep for 4 days and you collapse. Get plenty of sleep and eat no food for a week or month and you can win Olympic medals (this was done to promote fasting). One MD says that Fasting is simply profound and profoundly simple.

Above site has quotes from 18 MDs about fasting. One reason for feeling worse in the morning is because your body has gone into a fasting mode. You stop a fast by breaking a fast. AKA as break-fast. It is the same reason people feel ill after going all day without food. Hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) is very rare. The cure is to break your addiction to food like Jesus did. Also done by Moses, Aristotle, Hippocrates, Pythagoras, Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi and Vidal Sasson (if you don''t look good then we don't look good- sells hair products). I wake up with loads of physical and mental energy. You do not even know what sleep is until you have done it after fasting a few days. There is bad news though. It tried walking on water but I fell into the water instead.

[eblight]

I meditate before bed each night. I sleep very well. If you are not into meditation some other ideas that may help. Review your day, starting from lying in bed before you go to sleep to waking up that morning. This seems to help the mind to quieten. Also express gratitude for at least fifty things that have happened to you during the day. You could also try some relaxation techniques as well.
I was interested in you saying that when you were a kid you looked forward to the next day. Do you not still do that with the same eagerness and excitement of a child?

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by eblight

I was interested in you saying that when you were a kid you looked forward to the next day. Do you not still do that with the same eagerness and excitement of a child?

I just saw this part and it interested me as well.

When I was a kid, I can remember on some weekend mornings just jumping out of bed awake around 4am or so and being so excited to start playing Nintendo games, playing outside or whatever, and being so mad when my mom and dad would tell me to go back to sleep for a few hours. On school days, however, it was almost impossible to get me out of bed, and once up I felt nothing but dread (I hated school like no one else on earth ever has ), and would usually look for any possible way to get out of going, whether faking an illness or whatever. Needless to say, once I got my driving license, I rarely ever went to school again

[Ilya]

Hi Gambler, let me answer this one first:

Originally Posted by Gambler

Yeah, I see your point. But I don 't want to except that as a destiny.
I was counting that "oversleeped" hours. If I sleep 2 hours then usual, that is 700 hours per years. 700 working hours, that can be used, per year.
<skip>
For that amount of time, you can learn new language(for example I like Portugalese), new programming language, give 10 exams, earn thousands of $, make love 300 times, gain 20 pounds of muscle, read 70 books....many many things. Such a waste.

Not really. Not necessarily. You see, it is only true if the hours you "oversleep" would have been as productive as the hours you are awake anyways. You see, if you lack sleep and still wake up early, you are likely to waste the same hours throughout the day. And if it happens that someone needs 9 hours of sleep, there is no point of having a competition with someone who needs only 7 hours. It's not the number of waking hours that matters, it's how we use them. The guy who is used to sleeping for 7 hours may be undermining his performance and health by it.
Also please remember that when we learn, or process a lot of information during the day, we need more sleep. And ignoring this need, will undermine our learning, the increase in our efficiency.

While I was in army(community service) I was getting up at 7 : 30, and I wasn't sleeping in the afternoon, it was OK. When I finished it, I managed to continue with that sleep pattern for a month, but after that...

Really, what happened to us. I really don't know anyone who gets up feeling full of energy, getting up is always connected with feeling tired.

Now you know. I do. Honest. But I cheat.

I have a theory about it. You were spot on earlier, when you said that we are stuck somehow in the sleepy state. Which is a good thing, because states are easy to change.
Let's remember how we learned to sleep
When we are toddlers we've slept as much as we needed. Babies fall asleep fast and wake up fast. They do look sleepy, but they don't look unhappy. Unless they are wet.

Then, as we grow up, something changes. I remember waking up in my pre-school years. I did feel sleepy. If there was bright light outside, it took me some time to adjust, and I would walk around for a few minutes, eyes squinted and sleepy, but not miserable.

It all ended with school. It was the first time I had to get up early (earlier than I'd like). At the same time I had things to do in the evening - homework, play, reading books with a torchlight lying in bed.
So in the mornings in addition to the natural sleepiness, I felt the effects of sleep deprivation. And those effects didn't wear off as easily.

Humans are very good learners. So very soon, we learn to stop to distinguish the natural temporary sleepiness from the chronic tiredness. We learn to know that "mornings suck". And this feeling might by itself become the reason why we resent school. Because the only time when I got enough sleep was on weekends. I think this is pretty common situation for any country with school education. These first years of school set up the unhealthy sleeping habits that go on in college, and then at work.

But there is a cure. Once we realise that we are feeling two things in the morning and not one, we can do something about it. First of all, go to bed earlier. Yes, waste those hours. You are not wasting them, you are giving yourself a chance to experience that natural and quickly passing sleepiness from the childhood. Then you'll be able to tell if you are sleep deprived, or just sleepy when you wake up.

Then, learn to know how your body moves from being sleepy to being awake. For example. To become fully alert I need to change my breathing from stomach to my chest (takes on deep breath -1 second). Then I have to switch the attention from the imaginary sounds in my head to the real sounds around me (takes concentrating on the ticking of the alarm clock - 1 second).
Then I have to stretch the muscles in my eyes so they become focused. I just focus on the small detail on the wallpaper pattern - 1 second.
So after 3 seconds I'm fully alert. Of course if I'm sleep deprived, I will have some symptoms of it at the back of my mind. But I'm out of bed.
And if I have time and not sleep deprived, I can take the slow route, roll out of bed, stumble around the room for a few minutes until my breathing, hearing, and vision will catch up with me naturally. It takes a few minutes, but I'm never miserable in the morning.

The added bonus is that by reversing the breath-hearing-vision sequence I can fall asleep in 3 seconds, when I need to.

Hope this helps. Your wake-up sequence is likely to be different, but it is there.

[Gambler]

I know that sometimes is just psychological thing. When I would have an exam next day, hard exam, I couldn't sleep for a few hours. Two times I didn't sleep at all. And I passed

The point is that daily worries can make as nervous, and not-relaxed, strained, anxious.
Maybe, if we would somehow face are problems, are selves, and say "Well, I will work this out, if it hearts, let it hearts, if I fail, who cares", we could be at peace with our selves. I also noticed when I workout some big problem, or a situation, the next day I have a good sleep. In those moments, it feels like "Everything is OK"

Maybe there is no universal solution. Maybe that is the personal problem.
I started my 60-day trial on giving up coffee, I will report results as soon as there are any results, if that fails, I will begin to take cocaine

[Ilya]

Originally Posted by Gambler

I know that sometimes is just psychological thing. When I would have an exam next day, hard exam, I couldn't sleep for a few hours. Two times I didn't sleep at all. And I passed

You are right. I did that several times. Not because I was worried, but because of the last night studying. Then I prohibited myself from doing it. I would go to bed and sleep well however unprepared I might feel. I can say that my results didn't get any worse. And I felt much better.

Maybe, if we would somehow face are problems, are selves, and say "Well, I will work this out, if it hearts, let it hearts, if I fail, who cares", we could be at peace with our selves.

Golden words. It takes practice to be able to maintain this attitude in the turbulent times, but it is just healthier

I started my 60-day trial on giving up coffee, I will report results as soon as there are any results, if that fails, I will begin to take cocaine

Good luck, with coffee, not with the cocaine

[zabmk]

Sometimes i have that problem too. Then i try not to take heavy dinner before going to bed. I can get up more fresh next morning. Why don't you all try this method. Maybe it suit for you.

[DailyGrowing]

The same grave problem i have these days.Everyday ,I sleep morn than 10 hours,and usually get up at 11am.Even though,I still feel groggy very much.
and I don't know how to avoid this.

[Ilya]

Originally Posted by DailyGrowing

The same grave problem i have these days.Everyday ,I sleep morn than 10 hours,and usually get up at 11am.Even though,I still feel groggy very much.
and I don't know how to avoid this.

By the way, once you get over the certain threshold, one can sleep the whole day and still feel tired. It is a strange sickly state, where you are half asleep but can't get up. Not nice. This is the case where forcing yourself to wake up early makes perfect sense.

[Old Soul]

If I oversleep (which is rare) because i dont allow it to happen, I feel like crap

alot of it too i think is our diets.......... honestly ever since i have been forced to change my diet , eat healthier , i really do feel a whole lot better!!!!

[arithhuh]

Guys!

I'm pretty surprised no-one's seriously touched upon diet as a reason for getting up groggy!

Just like Steve also mentioned in his article, food has a lot do with one's energy levels, and one's night time meal especially has a lot of effect on the way you wake up the next day. (At least in my experiencE).

Try going on a diet with lotsa salads and sprouts and veggies and all, and in the nyt, just have somehting light and energetic, like some fruit or salad, and go to bed. If ur diet is balanced in general, and doesn't have too much junk, you shud wake up nice and refreshed.

On the other hand, go and gorge on all kinds of food which is rich and heavy on the system, and go to bed, and its almost like a rule u'll wake up less refreshed and probably even groggy.

As such, if you're on a light, balanced diet, u get used to eating light and energetic foods which don't take a lot of energy to digest. If you're one of those ppl, then Definitely, don't have rich, processed food for dinner. it'll mess ur next day up.

All wht i've written is from my personal experience. I'm not too sure if this is the way it works with everyone, but those r my 2 cents.

[arithhuh]

wOw old soul, we posted on the same thing with a difference of 2 minutes.

talk abt telepathic connectivity. haha.

[Gambler]

Originally Posted by Ilya

By the way, once you get over the certain threshold, one can sleep the whole day and still feel tired. It is a strange sickly state, where you are half asleep but can't get up. Not nice. This is the case where forcing yourself to wake up early makes perfect sense.

I cannot believe how many people are experiencing the same problem.
Yes, Ilya, you are absolutely right. There is a threshold which when is crossed...
You're like more sleepy. Weird. People are weird beings. Doesn't have sense.
I think it would be good to take advice about a diet, from these two gentlemans .Thanks for an advice. That would be my December Goal.

Thanks about advice.

It's....when we were kids, we had eaten healthy. Do you know kid that drinks alcohol, eat burgers, smoke, drink coffee. My parents wouldn't let me drink Coke at all, and I would have to beg them for candy. Now, I eat ONLY crap food.

It looks like that is the reason we slept well in childhood. Healthy diet.
Makes you think...