Reframing beliefs around sleep

[jbischke]

I'm still trying to get a sense of how much sleep is actually optimal but in the meantime I'm fascinated by the possibility of reframing beliefs about sleep. For instance, let's say that you live in one culture where 10 hours of sleep is the accepted norm. If you all of a sudden move to another culture where 6 hours of sleep is the norm that would probably seem pretty strange. And vice versa.

Please post any articles or stories around peoples' ability to function well despite sleep quantities that are less than "normal" (say less than 6 hours). Personal anecdotes or beliefs would be great as well!

[Addict]

I'd say in the time-starved, overworked US, it's actually kind of normal to be sleep deprived. I think the average is probably around 6-7 hours a night. I've tracked my own sleep patterns and that's true for me.

Then again, I know that I feel terrible when I'm constantly getting this little sleep. I really wish that I could dramatically reduce my need to sleep, so I had more time. I'd be very interested to know how to sleep less than 5 hours a night and feel great. It seems impossible though.

[jbischke]

Thanks! So I guess I'm not looking to be sleep-deprived () but rather to question the dominant belief that people need to have 7-8 hours of sleep to feel well-rested. I was listening to a Wayne Dyer program a while back that said they had done a study and found that when people had their external references to time removed they actually slept something like 3-4 hours a night. I think it's very possible (but not necessarily accurate) that the human body can function optimally on less than "normal" sleep but that it might require a reframing of beliefs. I'm looking for any evidence that might back that up.

[Angela]

It's funny to hear some of the framing around here about sleep -- I get the very strong impression that people feel sleep is something we should strive to get by on less of, because it robs us of waking life. Waking=More Desirable; Sleeping=Less Desirable.

How I frame it is: my body is a genius at figuring out how much sleep it requires. Going to sleep, sleeping, dreaming, and waking up are some of the most glorious experiences possible in life! Why be stingy with 'em?

[Peter S C]

I sleep about 6-7 hours per night. I usually try to have one longer sleep on the weekend, say 8-9 hours. This works well for me .

[Minsc]

You'll need to split up your sleep into multiple periods if you want to reduce it below, say, 6 hours...

I try to sleep four a day plus what I get at school but I guess it would average to around five(at home).
(I just fall asleep when I'm tired; I have to plan the naps out carefully to avoid it)

I have some caffeine in my diet that I'll get rid of soon so I should be sleeping less soon and I'll probably start sleeping less than that as I get older..

Anyway, in polyphasic sleep, you sleep 2 hours a day. I heard about some monks who sleep 20 minutes a day and run ~40 miles a day for a year...

And I think the world record of longest time without sleep(~10 days, but the guy suffered from some brain damage from going without sleep that long. I think 7 days is safe if anyone wants to try) was broken recently.

[silicon toad2000]

have a read of the biphasic sleep thread and do some research on sleep cycles.

i'm on biphasic sleep and feel the most alert and awake during the day have in a long time

[Kaspian]

I'm a big fan of sleeping 3 hours at night and taking four 23-minute naps during the day. If I try to stay awake for too long, I'll feel tired, just like a monophasic sleeper would if he/she stayed up long past his/her regular bed time. In general though, I feel better and my energy level is more consistent now than it was when I slept 8-ish hours at night.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Angela

How I frame it is: my body is a genius at figuring out how much sleep it requires. Going to sleep, sleeping, dreaming, and waking up are some of the most glorious experiences possible in life! Why be stingy with 'em?

Because when we're sleeping, we:

1) Don't experience life/consciousness of selves

2) There should be enough time to sleep once we are past 80 y.o., when our time will probably not be as enjoyable as when we're younger.

[Sam988]

jbishcke, i don't know if mindset influences in sleeping time. I don't think so. If you think that you can sleep less by changing your mindset, do a 30-day trial trying to monophasically sleep for 4 hours a day; if you make it and don't feel tired after that, then it's all good; if you just don't manage to keep sleeping only 4 hours a day, you also get an aswer to your question

[Jennihul]

Ok, think about this:

In all the years that our general mammal form has existed on this planet, millions (unless you are a creationist, then sorry...evolve!) the need to sleep has never evolved out of our experience. It leaves us completely defenseless in a dangerous world for a full one-third of our measured day. Obviously, there is a reason for it. Just because we don't understand WHY we need it doesn't mean we don't need it.

People that are chronically deprived of it become incoherent, mentally ill, develop disease, high blood pressure, obesity and all manner of metabolic disorders. Decreased levels of melatonin, the hormone that kicks in when you sleep, is implicated in breast cancer and other cancers when sleep or darkness is limited. Melatonin decreases steadily as we age until, guess what? we die!

People who are purposely sleep deprived for experiments do poorly on cognition tests, lose creativity and ability to reason. Some hallucinate.

Knowing all this, why would you wish to limit your sleep?

Jennifer

[Ilya]

Originally Posted by Sam988

Because when we're sleeping, we:

1) Don't experience life/consciousness of selves

2) There should be enough time to sleep once we are past 80 y.o., when our time will probably not be as enjoyable as when we're younger.

Come on, Sam. This is not exactly true.

1) It takes some practice, but you can have enough consciousness through the night to make it enjoyable. I'm not even talking about lucid dreams. I'm talking about remembering the dreams. It's like a free unique movie every night! Special effects kick asso advertisements.
If someone would invent the no-need for sleep pill, I'll make sure that I can still have my dreams when I want to.

2) Once we are past 80... in fact, much earlier... the need for sleep drastically reduces. My grandparents and now my parents complain that they can't sleep more then 5 to six hours every night. Unfortunately, they are not as productive as they once were and they can not make good use of this free time. Isn't it ironic? The reason for this paradox may be that with age the brain does not need to do whatever it does during sleep as much as before. And most likely, because it is not put to good enough use. So, my plan it to keep my brain busy and in need of sleep as long as possible.
I do fancy polyphasic and anything that can make sleeping efficient. But for me efficient means (among other things) both having my dreams and letting all subconscious processing happen.