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Hi, This site has been an eye-opener for me. I have recently moved toward a vegetable based diet vs. meat 'n milk. I feel great. Do you believe this site exaggerates the risks? I realize there are health issues as well as ethical issues. I would prefer for responses to concentrate on the health issues. Of note to me is having direct experience with some of the issues caused by milk: arthritis (myself as well as family members), autism (my daughter, I discussed the health issues from milk with her, and this of course, has caused her to perseverate on the risk of cow's milk: hence my asking your opinion), prostate cancer (my brother, father and grandfather). I was a big milk drinker (loved the taste/was comfort food) am loving feeling better; should I keep my decision to myself or become a non-dairy evangelist? |
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also check out this link: http://realmilk.org/ "Back in the 20s, Americans could buy fresh raw whole milk, real clabber and buttermilk, luscious naturally yellow butter, fresh farm cheeses and cream in various colors and thicknesses. Today's milk is accused of causing everything from allergies to heart disease to cancer, but when Americans could buy Real Milk, these diseases were rare. In fact, a supply of high quality dairy products was considered vital to American security and the economic well being of the nation. What's needed today is a return to humane, non-toxic, pasture-based dairying and small-scale traditional processing, in short . . . A Campaign for Real Milk" |
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I wrote about an eye-opener and the first response came from Openeyes |
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IMHO, The most obvious culprit for all the medical troubles experienced by modern world are caused by the nutrient deficient processed food loaded with faulty nutrients that human body cannot metabolize. 1) Trans fats 2) Lipid hydroperoxides ( by products of essential fatty acids due to heat processing...) 3) pesticides and other chemicals like heavy metals that have no role in human metabolism Modern processed food and non-organic food also severly lack ESSENTIAL Minerals. ( Without sufficient minerals, Vitamins will not work! 300+ enzymes depend on the level of MG ! ). Experts estimate that >80% of American are deficient in Magnesium . WHO also estimates that more than 600 million of ppl worldwide are deficient in IRON . the essential nutrient that's required to transport oxygen so you don't feel like zombie all the time. Also making the situation worse was the deficiency of essential fatty acids (Omega 6/3) due to cook/fried food as these delicate fats are sensitive to heat, light and air . Essential fatty acids are the percursor of hormones, the main building block of healthy cellular membrane and etc. ScienceDaily: Bioengineering To Prevent Iron Deficiency? Quote:
Magnesium-Deficiency Catastrophe: The Magnesium Web Site Conditions magnesium may help: Alcoholism thru Chemical Sensitivity Brian Peskin is Brilliant, Truth about Brian Peskin, Essential Fatty Acids, Basic Essence, and Quantum Nutrition | Home Page | The Truth About Prof. Brian S. Peskin, L.S.E. If you're to ask me if commercial milk is any worse than vegetarian French fries or vegetarian cookies loaded with damaged fats in causing illness. My answer is no, but that doesn't mean commercial milk is good . Natural whole milk , as with any whole food , is still better choice for anyone looking to improve their health. Look for clue in Okinawan diet ( Omnivores ). Last edited by escapee; 10-17-2007 at 07:46 AM. |
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I have been a vegetarian for 28 years and a vegan for 12. I would take anything I read on notmilk.com as an invitation to further research. Robert Cohen, the author of the site, has been caught putting up material that contradicts text book science. Nowhere on his site does he mention what his credentials are and I when googling him I see that his many critics ( which include vegan Registered Dietitians and Medical Doctors ) have the same complaint. There are plenty of scientifically solid reasons to avoid milk. There isn't any need for Cohen to make things up. Again, I'm not saying his site is 100% BS, but before you believe anything you read on notmilk.com try looking it up in a second place. |
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The longest living person in the world drinks milk. I always wonder what sort of milk does he drink. Is it Real milk, whole milk or skim milk ( 99% fat free with low fat soluble VIT). I think some people are putting too much emphasis on the avoidance of certain food group ( milk, meat ) that the real culprits ( as i mentioned ) continue to wreak serious havoc on uninformed individuals. Quote:
Last edited by escapee; 10-17-2007 at 07:00 PM. |
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Some food for thought How Much Do Hunzas, Vilcabambans, Georgians Cook their Food? The Hunza Quote:
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Last edited by escapee; 10-18-2007 at 05:14 AM. |
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| Exactly. Maybe he could have lived even longer or have lived his final years in better shape if he didn't use dairy products.
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Amazon.com: Prostate Cancer: Books: Jane Plant Amazon.com: The No-Dairy Breast Cancer Prevention Program: How One Scientist's Discovery Helped Her Defeat Her Cancer: Books: Jane Plant Amazon.com: The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted and the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss and Long-term Health: Books: T. Colin Campbell,Thomas M. Campbell II,John Robbins,Howard Lyman Good luck. I hope for your sake you are right |
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| Quote: The experts told me 30 or so years ago, numerous times, that I wouldn't make it to 30, after they'd just finished testing me and telling me what an awesome speciman I was...when I then gleefully told them what I ate. Now I'm past fifty and powering. Imagine by the time I'm sixty! ![]() Come for an all day surf in the southern ocean. No problem, I'll shout you a milk and whey smoothie! But, when the pointers come to see who's in their territory, I hope you've got more than luck, hope and some paperbacks. Last edited by Uplift; 10-19-2007 at 09:13 AM. |
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...may I have your direct experience and feeling instead of other's experiences and studies? I am loving being almost entirely off of dairy. Stopping for a few days: I can feel a big difference. The way I have been explaining this to others is that a contrast is necessary. In my case, eating dairy was a daily thing since I was a baby. My family ate/eats alot of dairy and this has created issues. We are non-smokers. Obviously there are many ways to hasten the death of our physical bodies; dairy is just one of them. Thanks for your experience. Last edited by joelyle; 10-19-2007 at 12:27 PM. |
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Joelyle, in my case, before I switched to predominantly dairy, I was trying to eat organic nuts, grains, legumes, fruits and vegetables. I was playing national level sport, doing my own weight training and fitness training as well, and surfing 3 -4 times a week. I just couldn't maintain weight, progress in my strength training, and became badly overtrained. Back then I began eating 20-30 eggs a day, meat, milk, cream, butter, a few nuts and grains and bananas. No other fruit and veg. For over 10 years. I felt virtually instantly deluxe, invincible, and it showed. I could train as hard and much as I liked, and began to grow heaps of muscle. Hence my earlier post about doctors tests. I would get comments about my deluxe health and fitness, blood tests etc, and then be told I was going to die when I revealed my diet. Later I changed because of moral reasons, and dropped all animal products, except those derived from milk. It meant upping my milk and milk products consumption dramatically, and took a while to find other ways to mimic the benefits of my other eating style. To get it right in my mind. Thats my unique experience. I think the main thing was that it really clicked with me, not just physically, but mentally. And on a deeper level. I totally embraced it, deep down, I wanted it to work, and totally trusted my own feelings and results, despite what anyone said. And I still do now. When you know how you feel, and how you are performing, who cares what anyone says. I changed my other diet because despite what any one said, I knew how I felt...not the way I wanted to. So I would say to you, trust yourself, listen to yourself. While you are feeling so good, you are right. However you choose to eat. Your expression through your mind is a powerfull, miraculous thing. You are happy with your choice, that's what counts, and gifts of this life are uniqueness and difference. I believe we are meant to enjoy, respect and celebrate ours and others. So, keep feeling so good. Last edited by Uplift; 10-19-2007 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Spelling |
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Since you asked about our direct experiences -- after getting off meat and dairy, my digestive system had improved by a few orders of magnitude. As an omnivore, I had problems with constipation. As a vegan that became a distant memory. Last edited by Baltar; 10-20-2007 at 06:35 AM. |
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Why is milk any worse than meat. Oh my god. Why would people continue to blame the problem on food that actually provide essential nutrients but not the non-nutrient food like Hydrogenated vegetable fats, rancid vegetable oil ( Lipid hydroperoxide ), pesticides and etc that has NO ROLE IN HUMAN METABOLISM. Can someone find a single function in which a human made hydrogenated oil performs on HUMAN BODY ? My answer is Inflammation in your artery (PLAGUE ), your arse, your gum , your breast and so on because your body cannot recognize it as a nutrient ! IMHO, The notion that meat, egg and milk cause cancer and heart disease is the biggest misinformation in the world. Nobody is giving a d**n about cholesterol , animal fats and animal protein until the advent of commercial vegetable oil, hydrogenated vegetable oil and commerical farming using chemical fertilizer (Mineral deficiency in crops and livestock) pesticide and food processing technology (eg: hotdog, processed meat, Refined carbohydrate & low fat ultra pasturised milk ) that denature or discard most of the nutrients. what does that tell us ? Meat still sucks ? It's more like widespread nutrient deficiency + ingestion of non-nutrient toxin like trans fats/Bad fats that are mainly responsible for premature expression of degenerative disease in modern world . Always feeling tired ? you need more iron and zinc from the bioavailable source like ........ ( Fill in the blank ) Iron Deficiency Alters DMBA-Induced Tumor Burden and Natural Killer Cell Cytotoxicity in Rats -- Spear and Sherman 122 (1): 46 -- Journal of Nutrition Last edited by escapee; 10-21-2007 at 04:25 PM. |
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Milk: It Does a Body Good? |
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Speaking of personal experience, A 3 months experimental vegan diet adversely affect my family health believing that low fat, low protein will make us invincible and free of illness. How foolish was that . My father partially lost his muscle strength and had muscle cramp/jerking all the time, my sister had a mentrual cycle disturbance , and i had poor blood circulation on my limbs and triggered symptoms that resemble restless leg syndrome. All of which were partially/fully reversed by eating a more healthy and balance omnivore diet (+ some supplementation) devoid of nutrient deficient processed food, sugary drink and deep fried fast food that we used to eat like crazy. With hindsight, If i were to add in more high fat high protein ORGANIC legumes, nuts, coconuts ( for fat soluble vitamins ) , Use organic vege instead or inorganic vege in the diet perhaps the outcome would have been a little different. The lesson from my experience? you can get very ill by eating a vegetarian diet that doesnt provide the essential nutrients in sufficient amount that your body needs on a daily basis. FRANK TALK ABOUT VEGETARIAN, VEGAN & RAW-FOOD DIETS FROM LONG-TIME INSIDERS Beyond Vegetarianism--Raw Food, Vegan, Fruitarian, Paleo Diets Failure to Thrive--Six Vegetarian Problem Scenarios Quote:
Essential nutrient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Last edited by escapee; 10-21-2007 at 04:08 PM. |
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^ That Failure to Thrive was terrible. It wasn't talking about anything, just made up some possible personalities. Of course you should eat organic, but what other things do vegans or vegeterians have to watch out for? Other than B12. |
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| I had to learn a lot about in/out, and nutrient availability (that is the amasing power of eggs). Is what you eat taking more out of you, in the effort to obtain nutrition, than what is going in. I prefer maximum nutrition, with minimal effort. Roughage goes through you for a reason. It can't be broken down, despite your body's best efforts. Thermal qualities of foods, also play an important role in metabolism.
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Expert estimates that 600 million -2 billion ppl world wide are iron deficient. Those (Omnivores) who consume predominantly white meat are already at risk of deficiency ( only red meat - Lamb , Beef, and maybe salmon containthe most bioavailable form of iron ). So it shouldnt be surprising that practicing veganism place you at greater risk of iron deficiency. Many silent ex-vegetarians i know dropped out of the diet due to extreme fatigue and weakness. New Vegetarian Tired All The Time, Suspects Iron Deficiency Zinc : THis is well known Healthy Fat and fat soluble vitamins : Many vegetarians still think that saturated fats cause heart disease despite the evidence that there is no saturated fat in artery clog. If saturated fats cause heart disease we should all be dead by now due to frequent inflammation cause by fats (saturated ) stored in our body. Quote:
Last edited by escapee; 10-22-2007 at 04:45 AM. |
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-No other animal on earth drinks milk from another animal. -We evolved for millions of years without drinking milk after infancy. -Cheese, yogurt, etc. didn't exist for most of our evolutionary history. -The majority of people on this planet are lactose intolerant. I've read over and over accounts of people here that started reading about milk. They started to understand that it isn't good for you, that it isn't necessary, and that it can cause many problems. They read the literature and they finally came to the conclusion .... to become vegan. What?!?! I've said it before, but let me say it again: you do not have to become vegan to avoid milk. You have other options. |
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I drink a small amt of reg milk but mostly soy milk...my x3 a day of whey ppowder has enough moo product. I do think cultured milk (buttermilk,yogurt) provides enough benefits on its own from the probiotics to outweigh most issues (unless you are lactose intolerant) |
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There are animals in deep sea that function entirely differently to us, so should we be mimicking them? Pigs are one of the closest animals when it comes to comparing our digestive systems, and they eat anything. Some people are lactose intolerant, I and my family aren't. Some people are gluten intolerant. Some aren't. Some die eating peanuts, others find them extremely beneficial. Some people fry in the sun, some thrive in it. The problem is when figuring out what works well for you, assuming it must be law for everyone. I don't know for sure, but sometimes I think the whole thing is mental conditioning and choice. I thrive on milk, I rely on it. As a personal trainer with considerable experience, where diet is a crucial part of the mix, just like exercise, it is important to figure out, and cater to personal difference. Or, just like advising a lactose intolerant person to drink milk, you may be advising a gluten intolerant person to consume gluten, and so on. Be happy with what works for you, and happy with what works for others. |
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I drink milk. I'm over fifty and in awesome health and fitness. I can't remember the last time I was sick. I played national level sport, and still train that way, it is ingrained in me, I love it. To be honest thats my test. That's how I rate eating styles. Ask any top athlete, they'll tell you how diet soon gets the full attention. We are all different, and its what I choose. Honestly, I can surf all day, and come home, do a full on workout, and whatever I like. It would be ridiculous for me to walk around thinking, 'I just surfed all day, I just did an awesome workout, people say I look like an athlete half my age, I drink milk...oh no I must be sick and dying.' Just like it would be ridiculous for someone like that Mike Mahler guy to say, 'I am in awesome health and fitness, oh no, I don't drink milk, I'll die. He goes through a lot to get his protein though. |
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