Benefits of Eating Meat

[escapee]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Well, Japan has the highest life expectancy of any nation; so I bet the level of chronic disease has declined with the improvement in diet.

Japanese has always been doing well with traditional diet. The improvement is on medical technology and sanitation.

Singaporean top the chart of longeivity in 2005 .

[Hilary]

As far as I can see, we humans are natural omnivores. As hunter-gatherers with more brain than brawn, we ate whatever there was - and because of this, we settled just about every habitat under the sun. There are very healthy traditional cultures that are vegetarian, and vegan, and almost exclusively carnivorous. (None that live on processed junk, though, afaik...) We can pick our chosen traditional culture and 'prove' that the 'best' diet is any one of these. Or we can just follow our own intuition and conscience.

[escapee]

I strongly believe there is a much better nutritional & lifestyle approach that would push the current boundary of human health and life expectancy further . The belief does not base on personal intuition but sound knowledge on nutrition and lifestyle plan. hmm.. that's just my personal opinion , take no offense from my post please .

[skinnyninja]

...Just wanted to let the world know that I tried some turkey burger tonight on the old George Foreman Grill.

I won't be doing that again.

[Lonewolf]

skinnyninja - you are a turkey

[Brutha]

I strongly believe there is a much better nutritional & lifestyle approach that would push the current boundary of human health and life expectancy further . The belief does not base on personal intuition but sound knowledge on nutrition and lifestyle plan. hmm.. that's just my personal opinion , take no offense from my post please .

But the fact is that their is no sound knowledge on the topic.

If you call it sound knowledge that eating less meat is healthy because Japanese are healty, you miss a lot of other explanations that could also be the reason for the fact that Japanese have a higher life expectency. Maybe they do more Qi Gong or they just have different genetics.

There is also no real reason to belief that you can transfer the knowledge of the perfect diet for person A to person B.
Person B may have some different gens and may need therefore different nutrition.

An other faulty belief is that nutrition is a liniar process, that can solved by simple minimax.
Take this link as example process that seems in the first instance very simple. But it shows that a very unintuitive solution may be better than the solution that someone who knows his math would propose. Their is no way at the present state of research on nutrition to know whether a nonintuitive solution may be better. To quote Henry Louis Mencke:

“There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat, plausible, and wrong.”

The body of person B might know what it needs. It has expirence and when something is very wrong it will tell the brain.
That phenomen of the body telling the brain is called intuition.

Sure there will be a perfect solution that is different from mere intuition for everyone, but you have at the present state of the science no way to no the solution.
In the meanwhile it is may in fact be better for people who live consciously (those people tend to have a good developed intuition) to trust their intuition.

[Ibanez]

I think I remember reading somewhere that the reason the japanese have a better health expectancy than the americans is due to their omega3: omega6 ratio, higher 3:6. Where in american the omega6 is much higher than omega3.

I do know that both the Americans and Japanese are high up in the list for total hours worked. I know Americans are low in vacation time compared to Europe and such. Maybe one day they will eliminate sleep and we can all enjoy the joys of 16hr work days.

[DQueens]

Meat is an excellent source of protein, B vitamins, zinc and iron. Unless you are a very adventurous legume and vegetable-eater with a lot of variety in your diet you probably fall short in those categories (and B vitamins are impossible to get through a vegetarian diet).

Meat gets a bad rap because of the saturated fat that people tend to associate it with. Just because you eat meat does not mean that every serving of meat you have is laden with saturated fat (ie: hamburger). In fact, most cuts of meat are lean and i believe that chicken, turkey, lean beef and fish are staples to any healthy diet. Another mistake people make when eating meat is portion sizes (the size of your palm is one portion).

I have nothing against vegetanarianism and vegan diets. If done properly, they can be very effective and healthy diets (but just because you are vegetarian and vegan doesnt mean your diet is low fat and healthy! There are many high fat, high sugar-eating vegatarians out there who dont eat enough protein or get enough nutrients). But please do not equate eating meat with things like cigarette-smoking or eating a high fat diet, because meat eaters may follow diets that rival those of non meat eaters. Keep in mind that someone's choice to eat meat is their own and that meat has a secure and important place in healthy diets everywhere.

[gberardi]

Originally Posted by Brutha

If you call it sound knowledge that eating less meat is healthy because Japanese are healty, you miss a lot of other explanations that could also be the reason for the fact that Japanese have a higher life expectency. Maybe they do more Qi Gong or they just have different genetics.

As I had read in a few places, including The China Study, genetics can be ruled out when you have Japanese men in Hawaii while eating a Western-style diet as opposed to Japanese men in Japan who eat a more plant-based diet. If genetics played a significant role, then the situation between the two groups wouldn't be very different. Hawaiian Japanese men had higher incidences of heart disease and were obese as compared to their Japanese counterparts.

So, now we are left with Qi Gong or other explanations, but genetics is a pretty flimsy one. B-)

[Lonewolf]

Look, you both missed the point - which is that the Japanese race has been growing taller and stronger ever since they started eating meat and dairy post WWII.

[ChrisGinsburg]

I have to wonder what people are seeking with threads like this. The benefits of eating meat are completely common knowledge. It is a rich source of protein, fats, iron and other substances. Many people feel great eating meat and can not achieve the same level of well being with other sources of protein. I don't really know why but it's true and I'm one of them.

Of course there are drawbacks to eating meat but you are looking for the argument for eating it. It's been said 10 million times but it is worth repeating. Eat what makes you feel right. Obviously eating red meat every day is going to become problematic. Integrating meat in small portions into meals here and there is seriously not going to cause you health problems so long as you have a balanced diet. Clearly avoiding meats filled with antibiotics and hormones is certainly preferable as well. Fish is a great meat all around. Omega-3's are great for you and can even help with depression.

When you start getting so caught up in your diet to the point that you need to start reviewing study after study, I believe you begin to lose sight of what living a healthy balanced life is all about.

[Andrew Gubb]

Conversations about meat vs. veg were so much nicer when this thread was started in 2006!

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

When you start getting so caught up in your diet to the point that you need to start reviewing study after study, I believe you begin to lose sight of what living a healthy balanced life is all about.

I agree with this totally. Stop taking it so SERIOUSLY! Eat what feels right and what the body says it wants and needs...listen to your body, it's the best compass of all.

[garentee]

My diet is fairly high in meat and.. I keep it that way because I am very active and when I do not get enough meat I become less energetic.. Most of the meat I eat nowadays is grass fed or at least partially....I do not tolerate a whole lot of carbs although I really love to eat bread and pasta.. my body does not digest those with ease... So I eat a lot of nutrient dense foods and load up on vegetables and try to eat something fermented at least once a day if not more....I do subscribe to the Nourishing Traditions way of eating to some extent.....
I totally agree with Andrew Gubb that there is a tenor about this topic now that there was not present when this thread was started... Settle down folks its just food....

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by garentee

My diet is fairly high in meat and.. I keep it that way because I am very active and when I do not get enough meat I become less energetic.. Most of the meat I eat nowadays is grass fed or at least partially....I do not tolerate a whole lot of carbs although I really love to eat bread and pasta.. my body does not digest those with ease... So I eat a lot of nutrient dense foods and load up on vegetables and try to eat something fermented at least once a day if not more....I do subscribe to the Nourishing Traditions way of eating to some extent.....
I totally agree with Andrew Gubb that there is a tenor about this topic now that there was not present when this thread was started... Settle down folks its just food....

Have you experimented with Spelt pasta? I didn't even realize that my body did not digest regular pasta very well until I tried spelt pasta. That stuff is gold!

[wolfgang]

Omega 6 are almost non existent in grain fed beef.

Grass fed beef has much more.

Most people eat the grain fed beef/meat and that is why meat has a bad rap now a days.

Why Grassfed Animal Products Are Better

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Conversations about meat vs. veg were so much nicer when this thread was started in 2006!

You mean in 2006 when this forum was filled with like minded people? Sure, you can call it nicer. I call it biased.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

The way I look at it, if a bottle of window cleaner had a full day's supply of calcium in it, I still wouldn't drink it because most of it is poison. Just because meat has protein and iron doesn't mean you need meat to get your protein and iron. And so if you can get all of your nutrients without eating the poison around it, why not give it a shot?

lol to Erin comparing meat, to a bottle of window cleaner. I love looking into the past.

[moonrambler]

Just to mention, Chris didn't bump this thread -- it got bumped by spam.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by Michelle

Are there any? Have there been studies done?

There is so much discussion going on as to why one shouldn't eat meat, it makes me wonder if there are convincing arguments for eating it.

Learning to use and control fire and eating and cooking meat allowed modern homo sapiens to develop. Prior to that so much time was consumed by finding food and eating plants, because of the lower caloric value of the food, that there was little time for socializing or developing any kind of intellectual system.

After we learned to control fire, and began to hunt game and cook and eat meat, we were able to ingest food with a much higher caloric value - less expenditure for a higher energy return. This allowed protohumans to develop larger brains, especially the frontal lobe, which allowed for language development and also increased leisure time to develop the social system and pursue higher thought systems.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

Learning to use and control fire and eating and cooking meat allowed modern homo sapiens to develop. Prior to that so much time was consumed by finding food and eating plants, because of the lower caloric value of the food, that there was little time for socializing or developing any kind of intellectual system.

After we learned to control fire, and began to hunt game and cook and eat meat, we were able to ingest food with a much higher caloric value - less expenditure for a higher energy return. This allowed protohumans to develop larger brains, especially the frontal lobe, which allowed for language development and also increased leisure time to develop the social system and pursue higher thought systems.

she blocked me lol but for anyone else reading this. People before fire, did not need to cook meat to eat it. They ate it raw, just fine. We hunted game and ate meat and ingested food with a much higher caloric value long before fire came along, and long after.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

she blocked me lol but for anyone else reading this. People before fire, did not need to cook meat to eat it. They ate it raw, just fine. We hunted game and ate meat and ingested food with a much higher caloric value long before fire came along, and long after.

I realize you have a bizarre personal beef with me, but cite your sources. I don't have you on ignore. I also recall that I asked you to keep my name out of your mouth, please kindly continue to do so.

Humans made fire 790,000 years ago: study | Reuters

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Early human fire skills revealed

Control of fire by early humans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

06.14.99 - Meat-eating was essential for human evolution, says UC Berkeley anthropologist specializing in diet

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

I realize you have a bizarre personal beef with me, but cite your sources. I don't have you on ignore. I also recall that I asked you to keep my name out of your mouth, please kindly continue to do so.

Humans made fire 790,000 years ago: study | Reuters

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Early human fire skills revealed

Control of fire by early humans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

06.14.99 - Meat-eating was essential for human evolution, says UC Berkeley anthropologist specializing in diet

Your name was never uttered out of my mouth. I know that you find yourself very important, but YOU posting it, had nothing to do with ME responding to the post. I responded to the post, not you, clearly thinking that you wouldn't even be there to read it. But, I see from your signature, that you've become aware, and have embraced it.

You want proof that early man ate raw meat? Really? Humans were and still are just like any other animal. Other animals did not cook their meat. Imagine a T-rex trying to light a Bic. Humans scavenged rotted meat from other predators kills. They didn't just come into being as vegans, no matter how much the vegan society tries to make us believe so.

Don't know why you posted that last link. I know meat eating was essential for human evolution. But cooking meat didn't instantly add a boost, when humans were already eating meat before fire. Yes, even before 800,000 years ago. All the other links you posted, does not deny anything I've said. One of the links talks about their CULTURAL evolution. Tho I see nothing about evolving because of cooking meat. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I did not read every single sentence of every link you posted.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

You want proof that early man ate raw meat? Really?

Um, no. Clearly if early protohumans DEVELOPED the use of fire to cook meat, prior to this they ate such food without cooking. Hello.

I'm sorry that you don't see that. I took a genetics class last semester, so your OPINION is contrary to the SCIENCE that I learned from books and articles published under peer review.

Now I will go ahead and put you on ignore. I dislike interacting with you to such a degree that I find it repulsive.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

Um, no. Clearly if early protohumans DEVELOPED the use of fire to cook meat, prior to this they ate such food without cooking. Hello.

I'm sorry that you don't see that. I took a genetics class last semester, so your OPINION is contrary to the SCIENCE that I learned from books and articles published under peer review.

Now I will go ahead and put you on ignore. I dislike interacting with you to such a degree that I find it repulsive.

That's my point. If we already ate that type of food before cooking, then why would cooking that type of food, magically change everything?

Bye bye tho.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

That's my point. If we already ate that type of food before cooking, then why would cooking that type of food, magically change everything?

Bye bye tho.

I haven't studied this but logically it seems that since cooking probably kept the food from going bad - it was easier to eat more of it.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I haven't studied this but logically it seems that since cooking probably kept the food from going bad - it was easier to eat more of it.

Possible, but I don't know. Our cooked food doesn't go bad, because we have air tight containers and fridges to hold the meat in. I think the spoiling of both raw and cooked might be the same. Hell, I know people who keep and eat raw meat, and it usually has a lot longer shelf life then cooked meat. And, thinking about it more. If what ever makes the meat go bad, isn't in cooked meat, then what is our bodies eating that microbes and bacteria doesn't wanna eat?

One thing I've experienced, is that cooked eggs for me have spoiled much faster then raw eggs.

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I haven't studied this but logically it seems that since cooking probably kept the food from going bad - it was easier to eat more of it.

As well as the fact that fire has a number of benefits aside from cooking. On the most basic level it probably prompted early humans to realize that many things were possible that they once thought impossible. A reason to evolve you might say.

[wolfgang]

or cooking was a way to make spoiled meat consumable(?)

but then I have lost the thread on why we are talking about the history of eating meat...

[firenexx]

Originally Posted by DQueens

(and B vitamins are impossible to get through a vegetarian diet).

Wrong!

I know this was posted in 2006, but I had to respond simply because it is an incorrect statement.

Someone posted a plethora of sources recently relating to B vitamins in foods; I wish I could dig it up.