The weight-loss algorithm

[javamannen2]

OK, I'll remove it then if it's that offensive.

[NotesMaeve]

Um, you don't really understand how calories work. See, food density does not equal fat/true weight gained. So I might eat 5000 kcal of creme horns, and not see a weight change for days.

If you just eat "as much as you want" because your weight is a little lower, you're going to get stuck in a cycle of gaining/regaining. You actually have to eat less. If you eat "as much as you want of anything," you will probably stretch your stomach and GAIN. Ever notice most yoyo dieters are fat?

If your only goal is weight loss and you actually want to keep it off, try eating between 1200 and 1500 calories a day and exercising a little. For most people (unless they're already thin), they WILL LOSE WEIGHT.

[javamannen2]

I'm sorry, but you haven't understood the concept.
The only real requisite for this to work is that the desired average weight loss rate over the whole period of the "diet" is less than or equal to the average longterm weight loss rate of water fasting. If the rates are close to equal (not recommended), then you have a full on water fast. If the desired rate is less than the fasting rate, you'll get some eating days and some fasting days. In the long run it will be a linear weight loss. It's really that simple. You don't have to complicate things with calorie calculations. B.T.W I'm not claiming that it's healthy. You may lose muscle instead of fat. But you'll lose the weight in the alotted timeframe (if it's realistically set to begin with). I've lost 27 kg using variations of this method.

Edit: Of course you can't lose 60 kg in 30 days, because even the sustained weight loss rate of water fasting wouldn't be fast (no pun intended) enough. Unless you exercise too...

[Matthew Shea]

I get what you're trying to do, javamannen2, but I have to agree with Maeve. Sounds like a recipe for yo-yo dieting and long-term failure. Short term, sure it could work for weight loss, but you're not promoting healthy, regular eating habits. Rather, you're promoting a very unhealthy way of eating that seems to me like it will eventually defeat any weight loss goals. I'm absolutely, 100% convinced that true, long-term weight management is most effectively achieved by permanent diet changes made slowly enough that your body won't freak out and go into yo-yo mode.

[javamannen2]

That's why I gave the warning in my first post. You have to use it responsibly. And you have to have the willpower to fast 1 or more days if you overeat. And in it's pure form it's not healthy. But for controlled weight-loss where you want to know the parameters beforehand (e.g "I want to lose 20 pounds over the next 90 days") it works with mathematical certainty if you have the discipline. It may not be healthy, but it works.

[Angela]

You can lose THIRTY pounds in 90 days in healthy, non-deprivational way, feeling good the whole time, just by reducing calories in and increasing calories out.

So why would anyone go this painful and dangerous yo-yo binge n' fast route so that they can lose only twenty pounds and be miserable the whole time?

[javamannen2]

Of course you could lose 30 pounds in 90 days this way too, I was just giving an example The point is that the process is deterministic. You know exactly (give or take a day or two) when the goal will be reached.

This is just a simple form of weight control, a linear equation basically. It's compatible with healthy (you don't have to binge just because you can) or unhealthy food habits. It's not concerned with what you eat!

The advantages that I see (and why it worked for me):
1. It's not constant deprivation like almost all other methods. You can have your eating days (and binge if you really want to) but still be on target long-term. Just be ready to compensate later for any excesses.
2. It's so simple. You don't have to count calories, avoid certain foods, bla bla bla. Eat what you like. Eat healthy if you want to (so much the better), but it's not strictly necessary just to lose the weight.
3. It's flexible. I gave some tips in my first post on how to mix it up a bit. There are many more. And it doesn't preclude a healthy diet. You can combine it with a healthy diet, and maybe you won't have to do any fasting days at all, since you lose the weight naturally anyway.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by javamannen2

I'm sorry, but you haven't understood the concept.
The only real requisite for this to work is that the desired average weight loss rate over the whole period of the "diet" is less than or equal to the average longterm weight loss rate of water fasting. If the rates are close to equal (not recommended), then you have a full on water fast. If the desired rate is less than the fasting rate, you'll get some eating days and some fasting days. In the long run it will be a linear weight loss. It's really that simple. You don't have to complicate things with calorie calculations. B.T.W I'm not claiming that it's healthy. You may lose muscle instead of fat. But you'll lose the weight in the alotted timeframe (if it's realistically set to begin with). I've lost 27 kg using variations of this method.

Well, I get it. You're just wrong. If you eat as much as you want because your weight goes down and then don't eat when it goes up, you're just doing the same thing that got you fat in the first place. It will not be a linear weight loss if you are still consuming the same number of calories. Math is power!

But, you know, what do I know? I just maintain a low weight. Don't listen to me.

As you lose weight, losing weight is increasingly harder. Matt actually mentioned the other day he lost 4 lbs. in a week. I really could never do that, as my weight is 105 lbs. and I'm 5' 8". You can't figure that if I weighed 120, I'd be losing at the same rate as now. (I don't want to cut weight; this is just a point.) Besides, who wants to cut weight just to cut weight? I mean, I understand having a goal like being able to ride faster on your bike (why I dropped ten lbs.) or fitting better in clothes or feeling better, but why lose to lose?

[javamannen2]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

Well, I get it. You're just wrong. If you eat as much as you want because your weight goes down and then don't eat when it goes up, you're just doing the same thing that got you fat in the first place. It will not be a linear weight loss if you are still consuming the same number of calories. Math is power!

OK, I hear you, and I'm not trying to be obnoxious or anything. But listen...

Suppose you lose x pounds per month by pure water fasting. Then as long as your desired weight loss rate is less than x pounds per month, this method works. Since all we do is to follow every eating day by a sufficient number of non-eating days to get on target again. If you don't see how this will work then I don't know what more I can tell you.

The original post was made tounge-in-cheek. I mean, it definitely works, as I said I've lost 27 kg (60 lbs) using it, but it's kinda "hard-core", definitely not for everyone.

[Ree]

Quick question: Do you plan to do this long term? Or do you plan to reach a goal and go back to eating "normally?"

Notesmaeve made a great point about yo-yo dieting. What really works is a healthy eating plan and reasonable exercise. It's a lifestyle change really.

[Angela]

Well, your original post implies your "diet" is not for timid people nor unscientifically-minded people.

I think we're also pointing out that your diet is MOSTLY not for people who want lose weight in a healthy way and to keep it off. Which, to your credit, you did point out.

This sounds like a good diet for Britney Spears.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by javamannen2

Suppose you lose x pounds per month by pure water fasting. Then as long as your desired weight loss rate is less than x pounds per month, this method works. Since all we do is to follow every eating day by a sufficient number of non-eating days to get on target again. If you don't see how this will work then I don't know what more I can tell you.

And when people skip eating like this, they compensate by overeating. If you 3500 kcal one day, skip eating the next, and thusly continue and thereby affect your metabolism, you will get fatter than if you just ate 2000 kcal a day.

The original post was made tounge-in-cheek. I mean, it definitely works, as I said I've lost 27 kg (60 lbs) using it, but it's kinda "hard-core", definitely not for everyone.

Hardcore is not the word I'd use. I'm pretty hardcore. In fact, sitting around not eating is pretty much the antithesis of hardcore.

[javamannen2]

Originally Posted by Ree

Quick question: Do you plan to do this long term? Or do you plan to reach a goal and go back to eating "normally?"

Notesmaeve made a great point about yo-yo dieting. What really works is a healthy eating plan and reasonable exercise. It's a lifestyle change really.

I'm 1.91 m tall (6 feet 3 inches), currently weighing 78 kg (172 lbs), down from 105 kg (231 lbs) last january (I have done this in several stages since then)
My target weight is 70 kg (154 lbs). That corresponds to a BMI of 19.2, in the lower end of the normal range. 70 kg is also what I weighed when I was 18 or so (I'm 36 now).

For my current weightloss project I've gone from 84.9 kg on july 7 to to 78.1 today (0.1 kg per day for 2 months). Since 0.1 kg is the smallest step on my scale, I don't have to use the quirky formula given in the original post. I just have to know that my goal weight decreases by 0.1 from the previous day. For each day I write down the current target weight, in red if I'm above it, in green if I'm below it. So all I have to remember is if I'm allowed to eat this day or not. So the weight fluctuates up and down all the time, but the long-term rate of weight-loss is 0.7 kg/week, which is quite comfortable.

I'll use the same method even when I've reached my goal. Then the daily target weight will always be the same. So all I have to do is remember: do I weigh more than 70.0 kg? Yes --> Fast today, No --> Eat today. Weight control for dummies, eh?

I eat healthier now than I did a year and a half ago. I'm a vegetarian since about 2 months. But I still love ice-cream (dulce de leche is my favorite), and greasy fries. But I think my body knows what kind of food it needs. All I do is limit the amounts a bit. And I actually think semi-periodical fasts are healthy.

I hope people don't take this thing too seriously. It's just a tool among others.

[Angela]

mmmm. Dulce de Leche! Have you tried the new Haagen Daaz "light" version? It's pretty darned good! Still quite a splurge as far as fat and calories go, but nowhere near the usual full-fat (oh, yum) version.

I sure wish you hadn't said "dulce de leche."

[SmellyOrc]

Weight loss is as simple as calories in vs calories out. Eat more calories than you burn, and you gain weight. Eat less calories than you burn, and you loose weight.

You're way of dieting, plainly sucks. You don't effectively lose weight by not eating. This slows down your metabolism, not good.
Eat healthy, good, non-processed foods, get off that lazy ass and do some heavy labor. That's it.

Besides. Why do would you want to lose WEIGHT? Why do you not want to lose fat? BMI says ****. Why? Because it doesn't take the body fat% into account.

I'd like to rant a bit more, but I'll safe it for someone else :P

Edit @ Angela: Fat is good. Don't avoid fat, except trans fats. Saturated fats not to be exaggerated.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SmellyOrc

Edit @ Angela: Fat is good. Don't avoid fat, except trans fats. Saturated fats not to be exaggerated.

Well, you know, Mr. ConsumeFewerCalories, that fat contains a concentrated number of calories. So if I can get an acceptably satisfying recreational food (ice cream certainly falls into the recreational category) with less fat and therefore fewer calories, that's the one I'm gonna pick. Unless I've got PMS; then all bets are off.

[javamannen2]

I see now that this debate will never end. All I know is that I lost 60 lbs using this method. If it works for you, good. If not, fine. And I did put a disclaimer in my first post, so please folks, don't get all worked-up. This is the last I will say on the matter.

Originally Posted by Angela

I sure wish you hadn't said "dulce de leche."

[SmellyOrc]

Originally Posted by Angela

Well, you know, Mr. ConsumeFewerCalories, that fat contains a concentrated number of calories. So if I can get an acceptably satisfying recreational food (ice cream certainly falls into the recreational category) with less fat and therefore fewer calories, that's the one I'm gonna pick. Unless I've got PMS; then all bets are off.

You can't burn fat without eating fat

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by Angela

Well, you know, Mr. ConsumeFewerCalories, that fat contains a concentrated number of calories. So if I can get an acceptably satisfying recreational food (ice cream certainly falls into the recreational category) with less fat and therefore fewer calories, that's the one I'm gonna pick. Unless I've got PMS; then all bets are off.

WRONG! Ice cream is a food group during PMS, just like Chinese dumplings and chocolate. I do wish they sold Ben & Jerry's with pads.

It saddens me people live their lives so unaware.

[Rossoneri]

Originally Posted by javamannen2

Weightloss on autopilot (a.k.a. controlled yo-yo diet, a.k.a the Binge'n'Fast diet)

Warning: This is for scientifically minded people.
It may seem too hardcore for some timid souls.
I'm not responsible if you get ill or die because of using this method irresponsibly

Anyway: here is how you lose x kg (or x lbs) in y days.

Prerequisites:
1. A good scale (a digital one with 0.1 kg steps is adequate)
2. A modicum of willpower

The algoritm:
1. Weigh yourself to determine your initial weight.
2. Decide your goal weight.
3. Decide (realistically) by which date you wish to have reached your goal weight. Calculate the total number of days between now and then.
4. On each morning between now and the goal date, do the following:
4.I Weigh yourself.
4.II Calculate the goal weight for this day. The formula is:
start weight + (goal weight - start weight) * (day number / total number of days)
4.III a) If your actual weight is less than or equal to your goal weight for this day then:
Consume as much as you want of anything you want for the next 24 hours.
4.III b) If your actual weight is greater than your goal weight for this day then:
Do not consume anything except water for the next 24 hours. You may drink as much water as you like though.

By repeating steps 4.I to 4.III you will reach your goal weight by the predetermined date (+/- a couple of days)

This works in a similar way to the autopilot of an aircraft.
The plane may be naturally drifting quite a bit to one side or another,
but the drift is constantly measured and compensated for,
and the long-term average course is a straight line from A to B.

I'm not necessarily saying that this "diet" is healthy , but it works if your only goal is weightloss.
No calorie counting, no special foods, only a series of controlled mini-fasts.

There are several ways to make the ride more enjoyable:
1. Choose a slower weightloss rate. 0.1 kg per day was quite comfortable for me.
2. Relax the water-only requirement in step III b.
E.g. drink only juices.
3. Measure your weight 2 or more times a day, for shorter (less painful) periods of food deprivation.
4. Don't binge just because you can. You know you'll have to pay for it tomorrow.

Very bad advice you give out.
Weight is a bad way to use for losing weight. You should rather use your bodyfat%. Because with weight you won't know if you are losing muscle mass or fat.
And using your method for yo-yo dieting would work for a couple of days, but it is stupid, unhealthy and it would make it harder to lose the fat later, because your metabolism would be slower. This because your body would get used to your diet, and would slow down your metabolism to keep the food longer because it doesn't know when the next meal is coming.
BMI is also crap because it only takes your height and weight. And since muscle weighs mroe than fat you think for yourself how it would be

[Matthew Shea]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

WRONG! Ice cream is a food group during PMS, just like Chinese dumplings and chocolate. I do wish they sold Ben & Jerry's with pads.

It saddens me people live their lives so unaware.

LMAO! Maeve, that's the funniest thing I've read all week. Almost as funny as the fact that one of my local grocery stores puts their Ben & Jerry's right across from the weight loss shakes (which would be a far better idea than what's being postulated in this thread).

Edit: by the way, Maeve told me that being around Slamhot has made her a less sarcastic person. Indeed!

[Addict]

I've got a good algorithm for weight loss too:

It’s time to make a big decision. Do you want to lose fat or lose weight? If you just want to lose weight, then stop reading this article, go to your local hardware store, and purchase a handsaw.

Trash the Scale: How to Calculate Body Fat Percentage » I’m an Omnivore

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

LMAO! Maeve, that's the funniest thing I've read all week. Almost as funny as the fact that one of my local grocery stores puts their Ben & Jerry's right across from the weight loss shakes (which would be a far better idea than what's being postulated in this thread).

Edit: by the way, Maeve told me that being around Slamhot has made her a less sarcastic person. Indeed!

Oh, man, I knew a grocery store on the east coast that did that. That's marketing genius.

I love Slimfast, BTW. Am I the only person on earth who wants to drink that stuff as a meal? Probably.

[bdp]

There are a lot of opinions expressed here, but let's get two things straight:

First, intermittent water fasting is a health-promoting practice, as well as an effective way to lose fat and maintain muscle. See "Fasting and Eating for Health" by Fuhrman, "The Warrior Diet" by Hofmekler, and "Evolutionary Fitness" by De Vany.

Second, it is arguable that losing excess fat "unhealthily" is more health-promoting than leaving it on your body (and up around your organs). You can't be healthy and fat. Anybody who says otherwise is likely a fat person who wants to feel better about himself.