how to live forever...

[williamhessian]

I have always been one of those crazy people that want to live forever. I want to be immortal (like Hulk Hogan). A year or so ago, I started writing a "statement of being a human being address" which dealt with solving three problems:

Eating

Sleeping

Breathing

(It did also deal with space travel and other such notions, but thats a blog for a different day.) Now, i quit writing that statement, partially because im not a good writer, nor a good debater, but moreso because other projects surfaced in its place.

However, in the back of my head, I am always pondering how to stay alive forever. Religious and fundamental implications aside, I can't get over the urge to avoid death. As if it was a disase.

Kristen Philipkoski, at Wired News, has recently written some very good articles about immortality, and more specifically about Alcor's Extreme Life Extension Conference. Alcor is a very interesting company because approximately 1,000 people pay Alcor $400 a year and have named Alcor as their life insurance beneficiary to cover the cost of freezing just the head for $50,000 or the entire body for $120,000. This is fascinating.

My first reaction is: Who the **** wants to freeze just their head?

Upon a few discussions online and research, i can understand wanting to freeze your head in the off chance that future technology will figure out a way to clone headless bodies to then have this cryogenically frozen head surgically placed on, or insert your own crazy scenerio involving reanimating one's head (ala Futurama). Thus, restarting thier life, or head, in a new age.

Now, I have also heard of people diagnosed with liver cancer or other such terminal illnesses that have gathered the money to cryogenically freeze thelselves in order to be unfrozen in the future when a cure for their particular disease is found. This has been voted against by the courts; basically saying that it is murder/suicide to be frozen. Therefore, even if the end goal is to be unfrozen and still alive, the meantime period is a technical death. Interesting to note.

For those that havn't followed any of my previous blogs, lately they have been an account of my attempts of polyphasic sleep. Involving sleeping only 3 hours a day, I quit this project after 5 days due to my inability to follow the nap cycle. I am now doing a Lucid Dreaming project with a group of others.

My intentions for that experiment was to find a way to gain more time in the week. Essentially to be awake longer within the time I am given. It is one weak attempt and failed attempt at that, of me trying to live forever. I need to find a sleep doctor who can prescribe me Modavigil. Modavigil is the drug that can keep you awake as if you've had extra sleep, a more scientific and sterioded version of NoDoze. I do want to point out my sarcasm in the last two sentences, since I do not take pills (except Prenatal vitamins during my goatee race) and do not advocate taking pills to solve problems.

Which brings me to more information Kristen Philipkoski writes about nanotechnology (Wired News) as she talked about a Robert Freitas who is a nanotechnitian (or something like that) and works for a company with a lot of Z's and X's in its name. But he mentions amazing possibilties for the future with the development of new nanotechnology.

For instance, a way to avoid breathing. There is a hypothetical injection of just 5 cc's of respirocytes which would allow a person to run a five minute mile for 12 minutes without even taking a single breath. Respirocytes they are called, they are artificial red blood cells -- nano machines.

This is exciting to me because if we can find a way to constantly inject these cells or figure out a way to let our bodies adapt them into the normal workings of our system (keep in mind i have no idea if anything i am saying has any realm of possibilty in any way-im just saying things) into our body we could potentially go under water, float around in space, avoid poisonous smells, smoke ect.


"Death is an outrage!" Freitas said. "Let's do something about it."

I happen to completely agree.

I'm not signing up to freeze my head just yet (partially because i dont have the money), but I AM going to join the Curing Old Age Disease Society and search for other inventions, conventions, experiments that may be making progress in this direction.

[ZHereford]

First of all I believe our souls are eternal so I believe we live forever anyway.

Secondly, I believe in reincarnation so when I say I don't want to live forever, I mean in this particular incarnation. A change is always good!

[Sam988]

This is by far my favorite subject, since i don't believe in soul or reincarnation or any of that stuff. For me, once we physically die, it's over.


williamhessian, the best and most complete website and forum on the internet about physical immortality is:

ImmInst.org ~ Main Forum


I believe you'll find it amazing as i did, and people like you and me that want to physically live forever are called "immortalists". Welcome, brother


This is one of the various forums there, you'll probably find this one more interesting than the others in the beggining.

ImmInst.org -> Immortalism


And here is a bunch of articles by Ray Kurzweil on living forever that you may find interesting:

KurzweilAI.net

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Sam988

I believe you'll find it amazing as i did, and people like you and me that want to physically live forever are called "immortalists". Welcome, brother

This may be an obvious question to you, but why would you want to live forever?

Our human bodies ultimately weaken and tire in every aspect and everything around us changes. To me, at some point, there is a time to move on, even if it is death.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

This may be an obvious question to you, but why would you want to live forever?

Our human bodies ultimately weaken and tire in every aspect and everything around us changes. To me, at some point, there is a time to move on, even if it is death.

Why wouldn't i? Why wouldn't you? Because human society has got used to this disease called death? Because we created all sorts of excuses (religion, believing our soul will last forever, "because that's what makes life interesting", and so on...) to get comfortable with the idea of dying?


If you took a look at the links i put above, you'd have the answer to when you say that our bodies ultimately weaken and die. It doesn't have to be like that. With the technologies that are coming, we will be able to live indefinitely with bodies of today's 20 year olds.

Actually, our bodies will be better than that, since they will be enhanced. I could go on and on about this subject, but i think you got the point. For the first time in history it will be possible in a near future (some think it will be in 30 years, some think it will only happen in 80-100 years) to fight and eventually beat death.


So i ask you now; why do you want to die? I see no reason for being comformed with the idea of being caught by the soul reaper only because we have never been able to do anything about so yet.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Sam988

So i ask you now; why do you want to die? I see no reason for being comformed with the idea of being caught by the soul reaper only because we have never been able to do anything about so yet.

I don't want to die, I want to move on. This is where you and I differ. Because I have belief in other dimensions and an afterlife, I look forward to experiencing it. Since you do not, you prefer to stick around here on earth and experience more of it. No problem! Just a different perspective.

I agree that technological advancements will make living longer and in relatively good health possible. It will be interesting to see how accidental death will be dealt with. That fact that we may have this choice in near future possible is very exciting. I wonder what suicidaldude thinks of this possibility.

[williamhessian]

i also do not understand (not even a little) the concept of accepting death or moving on or trusting in an afterlife or reincarnation. Not to put down anyones personal beleifs, but i have a realistic faith.

i want to make the best out of what i have here, and keep it for as long as possible. life is worth hanging on, even if there is an afterlife, why not make the best out of this life first? Seems absurd not to.

Sam, thank you for all the links, i have recorded them all and now I am going to go searching around. I am glad to be a fellow Immortalist.

Originally Posted by ZHereford

I don't want to die, I want to move on. This is where you and I differ. Because I have belief in other dimensions and an afterlife, I look forward to experiencing it. Since you do not, you prefer to stick around here on earth and experience more of it. No problem! Just a different perspective.

I agree that technological advancements will make living longer and in relatively good health possible. It will be interesting to see how accidental death will be dealt with. That fact that we may have this choice in near future possible is very exciting. I wonder what suicidaldude thinks of this possibility.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by williamhessian

i want to make the best out of what i have here, and keep it for as long as possible. life is worth hanging on, even if there is an afterlife, why not make the best out of this life first? Seems absurd not to.

I don't disagree with you at all on this. Life is definitely worth living and making the best of it is the way to go, however, there comes a time when the quality of your life, due to illness, disease, old age etc. may lessen. I don't expect to be this vibrant, young thing forever .

[williamhessian]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

I don't disagree with you at all on this. Life is definitely worth living and making the best of it is the way to go, however, there comes a time when the quality of your life, due to illness, disease, old age etc. may lessen. I don't expect to be this vibrant, young thing forever .

i agree with that. in my opinion, living forever and being in good health would go hand in hand. illness and disease is a different problem all together, but coupled with wanting to live forever comes the focus on doing whatever it takes to stay disease and illness free.

i do expect to be this vibrat young thing forever. even if it isnt very realistic.

[Buddy]

"i also do not understand (not even a little) the concept of accepting death or moving on or trusting in an afterlife or reincarnation. Not to put down anyones personal beleifs, but i have a realistic faith."

No, you don't have a realistic faith. Dieing is not a matter of faith, it's a physical reality. Show me one thing in the physical universe that does not fade. Energy isn't destroyed, but matter (which admittedly is a "heavy" form of energy) is. At least in it's temporary form. Consciousness (in some traditions) is what lasts. But this is not "material." The physical world is defined by--creation, advancing, declining, and destruction.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by williamhessian

i do expect to be this vibrat young thing forever. even if it isnt very realistic.

Who knows, by the time they figure out how we can cheat death, perhaps they'll discover how to reverse, or at least delay aging as well!

I just may want to stick around after all!

[silicon toad2000]

I don't think eternal life would be beneficial for society as a whole.
Mainly as the rich will keep getting richer and the poor will keep getting poorer.
Eternal life for the opulent few... why would a few be more deserving that everyone else?

But on the fanciful side, I have often wondered how much knowledge, skills and wealth could be accumulated in an eternity...

If humans could live for twice as long as they do now, could they achieve twice as much in their lifetimes of would lifetime achievements be constrained by the law of diminishing returns?

[williamhessian]

Originally Posted by Buddy

"i also do not understand (not even a little) the concept of accepting death or moving on or trusting in an afterlife or reincarnation. Not to put down anyones personal beleifs, but i have a realistic faith."

No, you don't have a realistic faith. Dieing is not a matter of faith, it's a physical reality. Show me one thing in the physical universe that does not fade. Energy isn't destroyed, but matter (which admittedly is a "heavy" form of energy) is. At least in it's temporary form. Consciousness (in some traditions) is what lasts. But this is not "material." The physical world is defined by--creation, advancing, declining, and destruction.

I consider myself having a realistic faith about an afterlife etc.

I was not referring to being realistic about living forever. That is just a dream, which i myself tell you and everyone that is probably never going to happen. I agree about dieing being a physical reality. However with nano technology and current research; we have the abilties to prolong life to a degree that, given our current lifespan, would seem like a long long time (that is if we fund these project and studies to take place, of course).

[williamhessian]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

Who knows, by the time they figure out how we can cheat death, perhaps they'll discover how to reverse, or at least delay aging as well!

I just may want to stick around after all!

Zhe, that's the attitude that i have about it!

[williamhessian]

Originally Posted by silicon toad2000

I don't think eternal life would be beneficial for society as a whole.
Mainly as the rich will keep getting richer and the poor will keep getting poorer.
Eternal life for the opulent few... why would a few be more deserving that everyone else?

But on the fanciful side, I have often wondered how much knowledge, skills and wealth could be accumulated in an eternity...

If humans could live for twice as long as they do now, could they achieve twice as much in their lifetimes of would lifetime achievements be constrained by the law of diminishing returns?

The wealth & power in the world today is very unbalanced, i agree with that. but i am among the starving artist realm currently, and i love my life and wouldn't trade it away for power or money. I'd love to live forever with the low economic standing i am in now, granted i cant predict the future, and what will happen in times of crisis or megalomaniac surges. I do feel confident enough in myself and my abilities to adapt to the changing world around me. All those problems would be issues i would gladly take on in trade for living forever.

I guess i am assuming that 'living forever' will eventually be affordable for everyone. Not just those with the most money/ power. If it was just available to the rich, i would want to find the money to buy it. it would be hard to justify giving up my art career to make enough money to 'live forever', but if im trading a few years, for an eternity...... it would be a hell of an investment.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

I don't disagree with you at all on this. Life is definitely worth living and making the best of it is the way to go, however, there comes a time when the quality of your life, due to illness, disease, old age etc. may lessen. I don't expect to be this vibrant, young thing forever .

When we find out how to cheat death we will definitely have already figured out how to stay with a "vibrant and young" body, don't worry about that
Our body, enhanced by nanotechnology, will be uncountable times better than it is now, and our intelligence will be enhanced in ways unimaginable. Really, staying "in shape" won't be a problem at all.

Originally Posted by Buddy

No, you don't have a realistic faith. Dieing is not a matter of faith, it's a physical reality. Show me one thing in the physical universe that does not fade. Energy isn't destroyed, but matter (which admittedly is a "heavy" form of energy) is. At least in it's temporary form. Consciousness (in some traditions) is what lasts. But this is not "material." The physical world is defined by--creation, advancing, declining, and destruction.

It's because most people have this exact mentality as yours that we haven't done more advancements in the longevity area. You're right, everything that's made of matter that we know will probably fade away if it hasn't yet.

But, in a similar way, the civilization has never got to this point of technology (which, in 30 years from now, will literally look like the stone-age, because the technology accelerates in an exponential rate). In some decades, we will be able to create intelligences higher than we ever thought possible, named strong artificial intelligence. That, combined with our capacity of handling the atoms (nanotechnology) will break so many old paradigms about what we thought was possible to do, included, of course, this fatalistic way of thinking, that everything must fade away, included us.

Originally Posted by silicon toad2000

I don't think eternal life would be beneficial for society as a whole.
Mainly as the rich will keep getting richer and the poor will keep getting poorer.
Eternal life for the opulent few... why would a few be more deserving that everyone else?

But on the fanciful side, I have often wondered how much knowledge, skills and wealth could be accumulated in an eternity...

If humans could live for twice as long as they do now, could they achieve twice as much in their lifetimes of would lifetime achievements be constrained by the law of diminishing returns?

Once we manage to find a way to cheat death, the world's economy will be much, much, much richer (especially once we have a high rate of development in the fields of nanotechnology and artificial development).
While i do think that the riches could get accumulated, i also think that there won't be anyone starving or dying from poor medical treatments. And since people would live forever, they would eventually accumulate the experience/knowledge to make money, if so they wish.

[Baltar]

Can someone define "forever" please? It's not possible to live forever in the most literal meaning of the word. In a couple of billion years, our sun is going to run out of hydrogen, becoming a "red giant", and life on earth will die out (from things getting too hot actually, not too cold). Presumably you'd get off this rock by that point in time and find another star system with a compatible planet ("class M planet" as they call it in Star Trek). Then spend a few hundred million years in a tin can traveling there, then (assuming you didn't get eaten by the large carnivorous reptiles that no doubt live there) rinse and repeat after a few more billion years. Doesn't sound like much fun to me.

Eventually though, you're the victim of the ultimate fate of the universe itself. There are many theories for what will happen. Possibilities include that it will go dark completely (the "big freeze" theory), collapse in on itself due to gravity (the "big crunch" theory) thus starting another big bang, or the big rip theory where the universe can no longer sustain its expansion and everything gets ripped apart into "elementary particles of radiation". There are actually a lot more theories but this is enough to give me a headache. The point is that living forever in the physical world is probably impossible in the end, no matter how you slice it. Clinging to physical life is therefore just delaying the inevitable.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Baltar

Can someone define "forever" please? It's not possible to live forever in the most literal meaning of the word. In a couple of billion years, our sun is going to run out of hydrogen, becoming a "red giant", and life on earth will die out (from things getting too hot actually, not too cold). Presumably you'd get off this rock by that point in time and find another star system with a compatible planet ("class M planet" as they call it in Star Trek). Then spend a few hundred million years in a tin can traveling there, then (assuming you didn't get eaten by the large carnivorous reptiles that no doubt live there) rinse and repeat after a few more billion years. Doesn't sound like much fun to me.

Eventually though, you're the victim of the ultimate fate of the universe itself. There are many theories for what will happen. Possibilities include that it will go dark completely (the "big freeze" theory), collapse in on itself due to gravity (the "big crunch" theory) thus starting another big bang, or the big rip theory where the universe can no longer sustain its expansion and everything gets ripped apart into "elementary particles of radiation". There are actually a lot more theories but this is enough to give me a headache. The point is that living forever in the physical world is probably impossible in the end, no matter how you slice it. Clinging to physical life is therefore just delaying the inevitable.

Haha you really think that some billions of years of technology advancement, especially since it advances exponentially, won't be enough for us to find a solution?

Here's an article that illustrates the idea better:

KurzweilAI.net


Once we get to build strong AI (smarter-than-human artificial intelligence), the rest will be easy.

[dennis08]

Originally Posted by Baltar

Can someone define "forever" please? It's not possible to live forever in the most literal meaning of the word. In a couple of billion years, our sun is going to run out of hydrogen, becoming a "red giant", and life on earth will die out (from things getting too hot actually, not too cold). Presumably you'd get off this rock by that point in time and find another star system with a compatible planet ("class M planet" as they call it in Star Trek). Then spend a few hundred million years in a tin can traveling there, then (assuming you didn't get eaten by the large carnivorous reptiles that no doubt live there) rinse and repeat after a few more billion years. Doesn't sound like much fun to me.

Eventually though, you're the victim of the ultimate fate of the universe itself. There are many theories for what will happen. Possibilities include that it will go dark completely (the "big freeze" theory), collapse in on itself due to gravity (the "big crunch" theory) thus starting another big bang, or the big rip theory where the universe can no longer sustain its expansion and everything gets ripped apart into "elementary particles of radiation". There are actually a lot more theories but this is enough to give me a headache. The point is that living forever in the physical world is probably impossible in the end, no matter how you slice it. Clinging to physical life is therefore just delaying the inevitable.

LOL nice post. A few hundred million years in a tin can lololol! Those theories sound so exciting