how to live forever...

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

Look like I have to check out some of Ben Bova's work...

I think Terry Goodman deserves a mention for his work with Kurzweil on Fantastic Voyage. Not necessarily one of the top 8 though, I'm not sure what else he's done.

You mean Terry Grossman? hehe

I don't know if much done by Terry despite his book co-authored with Ray. Maybe he deserves some mention for his works and researches on life extension... But he didn't do much.

Originally Posted by Stephen

However for me, my life comes secondary now to my childrens as I have passed on my genes to them and therefore genetically I have survived already my generation. As a person who generally susbcribes to the philosophy that our world is wholly material, the gene transfer into future generations is the equivelant of reaching 'heaven', in my opinion.

As much as you enjoy your children, they're not you. They're copies of you, that you made because you can't keep on so you "need" to pass your genes over. Your genes survive, not you. Extreme life extension is saying "hey ♥♥♥♥♥ you genes, why do you keep existing and I, the machine that you used and then mercelessly throwed away, don't?"

I suggest you read The Selfish Gene, by Richard Dawkins. Very interesting and enlightening book.

[Bdavis]

When they figure this all out im going to need somebody to hook me up!

[oakspringer]

Wow, this is a hot topic. There is a lot of passion about this subject to say the least!

I will say that I was one who was a major proponent of trying to live forever. I would study up on AI, Singularity, Longevity, read everything I could about life extension possibilities and immortality.

I definitely feel that I can relate to the strong opinions in this post as I often felt the same way!

Why wouldn't we want to live forever? And if you don't want to live forever, you must be 'crazy'!

I will say this, how are you living right now? Is it at peak performance? Is it a total love affair with yourself and your life? Do you wake up beaming to be alive each and every day? Are you completely 100% grateful for the chance to express yourself?

That withstanding I would say to those who want to live forever, Good! I'm very sure we will develop the technology to extend our lives as long as we want. Perhaps in our lifetime.

But what I feel that is there is a lot of underlying fear motivating this particular drive for living longer.

I can only relate though. I was terrified of dying and terrified of what I might have to face if I died. Would I cease to exist? Would I have to be reborn again, go through yet another incarnation? Would I have to talk to God about what I did on this Earth?

All of those feelings made it unbearable to seek peace with death.

So in all honesty, if you extend your life another 400 years to work out all your fears and grow into the superhuman you want to become, that's great! Why not? Save yourself another incarnation to do the same thing.

But if you extend your life another 400 years and its a prison, its hell, and you become truly trapped, that would be a travesty. Who would honestly want that?

It is my personal belief, and I've read some literature around the internet and mediated on the subject, is that we may have the opportunity for the first time to Ascend with our physical body into higher dimensional awareness. Which means we can keep our physical form and Ascend into our awareness of Divinity.

Which to me sounds rather fun! And I prefer that option over living forever. I'd rather be zipping around space and creating worlds rather than stuck on earth living forever. That would be my choice, but its a free will universe, and we are allowed to create whatever we want.

So for those of you excited by living forever, go for it, let nothing stop you. And if after 600 years you find it sucks to be alive for this long (or not!) you can make a new choice

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by Sam988

This is by far my favorite subject, since i don't believe in soul or reincarnation or any of that stuff. For me, once we physically die, it's over.

Oh dear, I always feel horrible when I read something like this. I suppose I could tell you that there is an afterlife (and beforelife ), but all the evidence is in my head. It's not tangible. They don't let you take polaroids . So you'll just have to believe me, based on my 1337 womanly charms instead. Evidence is for losers!

[Bdavis]

Well, being a human in this day and age, i find it hard to believe anything that isn't supported by logic and reason, and as far as I, or anyone else knows Sam998 is totally right, and thats definitely my personal outlook as well. However thats not really what this thread is about, and yeah I can honestly say I enjoy my life and a couple hundred, thousand+ years wouldn't be too bad! But of course there is only one way to find out..

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by Bdavis

Well, being a human in this day and age, i find it hard to believe anything that isn't supported by logic and reason, and as far as I, or anyone else knows Sam998 is totally right, and thats definitely my personal outlook as well. However thats not really what this thread is about, and yeah I can honestly say I enjoy my life and a couple hundred, thousand+ years wouldn't be too bad! But of course there is only one way to find out..

I'm also the type who has to "see it to believe it", which is why I'm a tad sceptical about the existence of angels. But I've seen other things that... well... aren't quite so easily ignored. Trust me, I tried.

[The Adventurer]

Interesting opinions on death...

I dont have any reason to believe that counsciousness can remain after death, I love my life, and yet I would also love to die and make place for others to come after me.

Life and death cannot exist separately. If no people die, then no new people can be born - can you really be so selfish as to deny others life? Someone said that death was a disease - very much to the contrary - not be willing to die is a disease - not unlike cancerous cells that do not activate their gene for self-destruct.

Why do you want to live forever anyway - what is the real thing behind it? I can think of no good reason for extending life at this point of time.

This head/body freezing thing is amusing - would anyone care to unfreeze people in the future for any other than curiousity to get to talk with someone who has lived many years ago? - unfreeze a new person every year and put him in the circus

[Sam988]

oakspringer, what if there is actually no "divinity" or "other choice" for our awareness to endure, other than remaining alive in our physical bodies? About what you said about enjoying life, i agree 100%. If someone doesn't want to stay alive for 80 years, he will obviously not want to live longer. But for those who find life amazing and don't want it to end, they should have the option of staying alive and only dying when they get tired of it.

bdavis, exactly. Damn, only some 80 years of life? That's horrible.


The Adventurer, there's a logical flaw in your comment. You see, there are no "others", unless they're born. So by not making anyone new come to this plante, we are not "blocking the way" of anyone, because there ISN'T anyone (unless you believe spirits and reincarnation, but you said in the beggining of your post that "you have no reason to believe that consciousness can remain after death). So your logic is a bit flawed here.

We only give birth to new beings because we die. You're culturally wired to believe that not having children is the same as "not giving place for the new ones to come", when the only reason the "new ones" come is because we die. If we don't die, there's no reason to make copies of us. Which is what childs are, copies of the ones that came before them.

[The Adventurer]

Sam988

I understand what you find a flaw and I think it is not.

As you say, there aren't "others" at this point. In the future there can be others if we create them. It is not only because we die that we give birth; also in order to give birth we have to die.

The universe may be infinite, but the physical world humans inhabit isn't - how would Earth look with 100 billion people on it? what about 500 billion? if it is possible to live forever and enough choose to do so, this will mean no children because of the physical limit of the environment.

Why would I think that it is good to have children and have people die instead of the same people live forever? First, evolution is based on the survival of the ones that adapt and is an excellent way for species to develop. Are we the ultimate creation of nature (as far as humans are concerned) - Homo Ultimatus? I think not.

Second, old minds stagnate. New minds see the world in a truly new way, one that is impossible for old minds to restructure to. We do experience a spiritual revolution(s) now and it opens many ways for mental restructuring, but at least until it is possible to rewire your thinking to the point of a complete change in personaty, new minds will be able to reach places beyond those accessible to old ones. A good illustration for this is the many scientific breakthroughs that were made by people who recently entered the field compared to the established authorities, and the long amount of time necessary for the new paradigms to be accepted.

[JimOfferman]

I'm all with you Adventurer!

[Kiba]

I personally believe that no matter how long your life is, it is too short so that why I would want to devote my time making the most of my life.


Second of all, it is not that old mind stagnate, it is only some that stagnate.

Some of us are very innovative in old age, some are innovative in young age, etc.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by The Adventurer

Sam988

I understand what you find a flaw and I think it is not.

As you say, there aren't "others" at this point. In the future there can be others if we create them. It is not only because we die that we give birth; also in order to give birth we have to die.

The universe may be infinite, but the physical world humans inhabit isn't - how would Earth look with 100 billion people on it? what about 500 billion? if it is possible to live forever and enough choose to do so, this will mean no children because of the physical limit of the environment..

I don't think that overpopulation will be a problem for us in any foreseeable future. Only when we start to be counted in the trillions will it become a problem. But just doing a rough estimate here, basing myself in the hypothetical situation that today we found a cure for aging and every 30 years there's a new generation, and for every 2 persons here 1 new person is born (considering the average is childs per couple is constantly decreasing, and considering the average of the average of childs per couple for the next 500 years or so, and considering that the number of childs per couple would lessen if aging was cured), and considering that no one dies in earth by accident anymore, let's do some math. 6,5 billion people, with an 50% compound increase every 30 years, it would take approx. 375 years for us to reach approx. a trillion people.

Or course we have to consider the fact that most people won't have a kid at age 30, especially once we find a cure for aging, and we must also consider the fact that many will still die by other reasons other than aging and age related diseases, and also the fact that we won't find the cure for aging so soon, so i must conclude that we won't get to 1 trillion people before 2400-2500.

Wow i didn't intend on making such an extensive post just to make my point, but anyways, by 2400-2500 we will very likely be expanding to new planets already, and having the technology to create super buildings like Sky City 1000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which will enable us to have many and many more trillions of inhabitants... And i wouldn't care about energy or environmental problems either, you may call me overly optimistic but i do believe that our technology will take care of that (with nanotechnology, we will be able to get energy more efficiently from the sun. The sun gives us an amount of energy so huge that if we manage to get just a fraction of it, all our energy problems are solved).

Originally Posted by The Adventurer

Why would I think that it is good to have children and have people die instead of the same people live forever? First, evolution is based on the survival of the ones that adapt and is an excellent way for species to develop. Are we the ultimate creation of nature (as far as humans are concerned) - Homo Ultimatus? I think not...

We are still evolving, and the next step in our evolution is not to evolve through biology but to evolve through technology. Biology can't possibly keep up with our current technological rate of progress. We are going to "develop" ourselves, as you said, by merging with our technology. It will make us smarter, make us be able to communicate better, make us live longer, make us more fit, and so on. Doesn't it sound like evolution to you?

Originally Posted by The Adventurer

Second, old minds stagnate. New minds see the world in a truly new way, one that is impossible for old minds to restructure to. We do experience a spiritual revolution(s) now and it opens many ways for mental restructuring, but at least until it is possible to rewire your thinking to the point of a complete change in personaty, new minds will be able to reach places beyond those accessible to old ones. A good illustration for this is the many scientific breakthroughs that were made by people who recently entered the field compared to the established authorities, and the long amount of time necessary for the new paradigms to be accepted.

I don't know where you got this from; but "old minds" still do many breakthroughs (just look at many who win science nobel prizes). "Old minds" (whatever age you're considering) still hold many power positions and help to run the world. They are the ones who create the world for the "young minds", so they do understand it, otherwise they wouldn't be able to create it.

And even if we consider that "old minds" can't get used to new technology and the new world, if we found a cure for aging, we would still have children and grandchildren and so one, so i don't see any problem in this issue.

[Frans]

Even if it would be possible to eliminate all diseases and reverse the aging process, people will die eventually.

The longer you live, the more chances you have to be murdered or killed in an accident/flood/hurricane/lightning/earthquake or other "acts of God".
(recommended literature: statistics of life insurance companies )

If you live "long enough", you will encounter your killer eventually.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Frans

The longer you live, the more chances you have to be murdered or killed in an accident/flood/hurricane/lightning/earthquake or other "acts of God".
(recommended literature: statistics of life insurance companies )

"acts of God" are relatively low risk for the affluent, just as homicide is less likely in good areas. Maybe one's current body can't live forever, but risks can be greatly decreased.

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by Frans

If you live "long enough", you will encounter your killer eventually.

Friends come and go, but enemies acumulate, right?

I also believe the chance of earning a Darwin Award, increases as we age. People do a lot of stupid things without even knowing it: the longer you live, the less chance your 'winning streak' will continue to last and you'll die by getting your head stuck in the blender or something like that.

[ScottJMurray]

I believe that consciousness is an innate property of the universe, much like gravity. I believe that all things have some sort of "experience," with humans being at the top level of that ladder. If death just means losing our own sense of consciousness and rejoining the fundamental building blocks of the universe's consciousness, that means we don't ever die.

Also, if you're a Buddhist, and you acknowledge the fact that there is no self to die in the first place, only a long chain of different phenomena passing through the lens of consciousness itself, you probably feel a little better about the whole death thing.

[Dannyboy1]

Even if they do figure out a way to live forever, you will not have access to it. The world leaders and the wealthy will use their power to take it for themselves and keep it from the ignorant masses. Then, the masses will eventually kill the rich "immortals". Don't you realize how little control we have? Anyway, even those who have the technology will eventually have an accident and die anyway. Even if we make ourselves healthy forever, we'll never be invulnerable. Do you realize how many deadly diseases are out there that we have no cure for? Even if we find a cure, new diseases will pop up to replace them. Look at science. Look at nature. Look at history. Stop trying to save yourself and start living and connecting to your soul. That's your best bet.

Originally Posted by williamhessian

The wealth & power in the world today is very unbalanced, i agree with that. but i am among the starving artist realm currently, and i love my life and wouldn't trade it away for power or money. I'd love to live forever with the low economic standing i am in now, granted i cant predict the future, and what will happen in times of crisis or megalomaniac surges. I do feel confident enough in myself and my abilities to adapt to the changing world around me. All those problems would be issues i would gladly take on in trade for living forever.

I guess i am assuming that 'living forever' will eventually be affordable for everyone. Not just those with the most money/ power. If it was just available to the rich, i would want to find the money to buy it. it would be hard to justify giving up my art career to make enough money to 'live forever', but if im trading a few years, for an eternity...... it would be a hell of an investment.

[Jonathan Mead]

I'm with you on this one Danny.

I think most people aren't so afraid of dying, as they are afraid of really living.

[hkalchemy]

One of my affirmations is - I want to live until I'm more than 100 years old!

As for being immortal ...... have you seen 'The Green Mile'?

[Thomas]

You might be interested in SENS: MFoundation-The SENS Platform

[ogrekilleat]

We find a way to achieve relative immortality at the exact time that the right-wingers finally manage to repeal Roe vs. Wade and eliminate all sex education except for "abstinance only". I live the rest of my life in a very crowded place.