Medication, pharmaceuticals and adverse effects

[DeathStorm]

I'm quite familiar with the ongoing debate regarding the in-efficiency of medications, especially of pharmaceuticals. The first person to tell me something about this was an old lady who was working with alternative holistic medicine.

A phrase I recall her telling me was
"Western medicine tries to cure the symptoms, but these will keep coming back unless you tackle the root of the problems."

I don't know how true that statement was, and I find it a bit hard to believe that an internationally recognized method that has been around for so long time would not at least attempt to address the causes of a disease.

Ever since I met that lady, I have read about other practices as well (osteopathy, acupuncture, etc.) and indeed I notice that each have a different approach.

What do you think about them?
And - if they are really as efficient as they are claimed to be - why aren't they overtaking or at least included in western medicine/national health services?

Do you think that pharmaceuticals are only a "quick fix" and that the body could really "heal itself"?

In the past months I had several minor injuries and was prescribed plenty of pharmaceuticals by the doctor, both oral and injected (especially NSAIDs, many of them!).
I almost have the feeling as if they have weakened me. Now, I caught a cold twice within 7 days and it took longer to cure than when I normally get it during winter (and it's summer here, and I'm in Italy!).

Are all pharmaceuticals accompanied by adverse effects?
Do you think the non-Western medicines are less risky in that sense?

[Angela]

funny that you bring this up. I took a 12-hour sudafed for the first time today and I am w-a-a-a-a-a-s-ted!!! I'm not congested anymore, thank heaven, but this stuff makes me want to tell bad jokes to inappropriate sexual partners!

I wish there was a way to deal with chronic congestion (Danger Man calls it "Compressed Melon Syndrome" or CMS) without the drugs. (you in-the-know folks will recommend a neti pot, which I use morning and night.)

Maybe I should start a bad joke thread. Or an inappropriate sexual partner thread.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Angela

Or an inappropriate sexual partner thread.

That has potential.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by DeathStorm

Are all pharmaceuticals accompanied by adverse effects?
Do you think the non-Western medicines are less risky in that sense?

In order to be called a medical drug... the substance has to have some poison in it... if it is not poisonous... it is not a medical drug...

Therefore, we should take as little drug a possible... however, sometimes we don't have a choice... you don't have to take some aspirin if you have a small headache... but you might have to take some antibiotic if you have an infection...

As far as alternative medicines are concerned... there is a tendency for exaggeration when both practitioners and some patients testify to its effectiveness...

Sadly, there is no hard and fast rule that can be followed... only common sense... one thing though... if it sounds too good to be true... it's probably not true...

Best of luck to you...
.

[beautyscientist]

Pharmaceuticals are rigourously tested and they definitely do work. Having worked on them I would avoid them unless you really need them. The powerful ones can have side effects. But sometimes that is a risk you have to take. I haven't actually taken an oral medication myself for about 10 years.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Angela

Or an inappropriate sexual partner thread.

I have some stories about that. They used to be either interesting or profoundly embarrassing depending on the audience. I shall refrain from telling them, but I would certainly be interested in reading the stories others wish to tell! <Grin>

On a slightly more serious note, I have not found a way to get rid of the symptoms you describe without the drugs and their side effects.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by DeathStorm

A phrase I recall her telling me was
"Western medicine tries to cure the symptoms, but these will keep coming back unless you tackle the root of the problems."

I don't know how true that statement was, and I find it a bit hard to believe that an internationally recognized method that has been around for so long time would not at least attempt to address the causes of a disease.

Do you think that pharmaceuticals are only a "quick fix" and that the body could really "heal itself"?

Our bodies are extremely resilient and in most cases can repair themselves. Much of the time the medication we take simply makes it easier for our body to do their job, or even more commonly it seems, makes it easier for us to handle the stress of being sick (e.g., cold and flu medication with paracetamol, codeine, pseudoephedrine, or some combination of the above, doesn't do anything about the virus. It just makes us feel better, eh Angela )

So yes, many pharms are a quick fix, precisely because the body can heal itself.

Originally Posted by DeathStorm

What do you think about them?
And - if they are really as efficient as they are claimed to be - why aren't they overtaking or at least included in western medicine/national health services?

Alternative medicine is subject to very few checks and balances. There's almost nothing to show that a practitioner who proscribes such medication, or any such medication bought off the shelf, is any better than doing nothing. There's a wealth of anecdotal evidence, but there's also a wealth of anecdotal evidence that black cats bring bad luck. There's also some scientific studies of things such as acupuncture, but no firm conclusions either way (at least none I'm aware of).

It seems current medical paradigm is ruled by a combination of science, tradition, politics and finance. That's a powerful combination. Alternative medicine would have to be extremely convincing in order to be included into that paradigm, or the paradigm would have to be overthrown. Efforts at inclusion are getting somewhere, I believe, at least as far as scientist's real interest in things like the healthful effects of meditation and acupuncture are concerned.

Originally Posted by DeathStorm

Are all pharmaceuticals accompanied by adverse effects?
Do you think the non-Western medicines are less risky in that sense?

Frankly, no. Pharmaceuticals are all required to list their possible side effects. Even if they're unlikely. These are determined from large studies. The warnings also include contraindications. No such requirement for alternative medicine as far as I'm aware.

Originally Posted by Angela

funny that you bring this up. I took a 12-hour sudafed for the first time today and I am w-a-a-a-a-a-s-ted!!!

Hehehe, druggy!

Originally Posted by Shamou

In order to be called a medical drug... the substance has to have some poison in it... if it is not poisonous... it is not a medical drug...

Do you mean that the active ingredient in most medications could be poisonous if taken in a high enough dose? At the recommended doses most medications, especially OTC ones, are harmless. The average body is well equipped to deal with any adverse effects, which usually just involves cleaning up any potentially harmful metabolites (by-products of the breakdown of the drug), and this can happen without stressing the bodily systems involved.

But of course sometimes an individual's body can't deal with the drug that well, so there may be side-effects.

[escapee]

When you understand the meaning of L.S.E ( Life science engineering ). Non-essential synthetic drugs ( for the purpose of trauma intervention ) are the last thing you want to have in your body.

Life-Systems Engineering Science

L.S.E.: This new field, founded in 1995 by Professor Brian Peskin, is defined as: The new science of producing desired results by working cooperatively with the natural processes of living systems.

This is in sharp contrast to a drug. Drugs typically artificially alter your biochemical reactions and always have negative (harmful) side effects.


Brian's alma mater, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, (MIT) utilizes the same concepts Professor Peskin originated - bringing engineering into the field of human physiology and biochemistry to make astounding advances in health! They published the following statement on their website on January 19, 1999:

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

Do you mean that the active ingredient in most medications could be poisonous if taken in a high enough dose?

Mark, a poison is a poison... it does not matter what the dosage is... however, even if it is a poison... it does not mean that it will kill you... however, if you do take enough of it... it can kill you... Even aspirin... if taken enough dosage will do you in...

Now, I am not against medication... it save people's lives and help us to have a much better quality of life... however, medical drugs should be seen for what it is... a poison...

As an example... water could save a dehydrated person's life... but it cannot be called a medical drug...

That is the only point that I was trying to make...
.

[escapee]

A good example is the use of Aspirin ( BY THE BIG BOYS ).

Instead of eliminating the source of inflammation/blockage to the arteries ( deadly trans fat, ruined hydrogenated oil and etc). The big boys have promoted the use of aspirin to inhibit the production of thromboxane - a natural process to seal wound ( platelets maker ) with potential side effect ranging from internal bleeding to death. The western drug centainly has its place in trauma intervention, but we just don't need it to prevent certain diseases like cancer or heart disease .

ASPIRIN's side-effects include DEATH

The widely used drug aspirin acts by inhibiting the ability of the COX enzyme to synthesize the precursors of thromboxane within platelets.

It inhibits the COX enzyme both non-competitively and irreversibly.

The side effect of this is that people who regularly take aspirin will suffer from excessive bleeding whenever the skin is perforated.

Thromboxane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by escapee

The big boys have promoted the use of aspirin to inhibit the production of thromboxane - a natural process to seal wound ( platelets maker ) with potential side effect ranging from internal bleeding to death.

But... do you know how many acute myocardial infarction (heart attack) it has prevented...??? And how many lives were saved by taking one aspirin a day by people who were at risk...???
.

[Mark Lapierre]

Sounds like a great step forward escapee, though it seems wrong to exclude synthetic drugs, if they can be engineered in a way which helps the body. In fact the term "non-essential synthetic drug" doesn't necessarily (and shouldn't) exclude a synthetic compound which can compliment and improve the body's natural processes.

Shamou: I understand your point, that medical drugs can do both good and bad. But I don't see how it's helpful to call them poisons. The label "poison" is usually reserved for something which is intended to cause harm. And yes, while some drugs like aspirin, which some people probably think is harmless, can cause harm, there's no guarantee, and certainly no intention.

I want to depict medicine as any better (or worse) than it truly is, but I don't think the term 'poison' is appropriate, particularly given most people's understanding of what the word means.

(Also I'm not sure what you meant by the example of water, particularly since too much water can kill you)

[escapee]

Yes yes Shamou , That's why i said the drug still has its place in TRAUMA INTERVENTION. If these people know what's causing their myocardial infarction in the first place. They wouldnt need the Aspirin in their 30s . I bet you aren't taking Aspirin as a preventive medicine , are you ?

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

Shamou: I understand your point, that medical drugs can do both good and bad. But I don't see how it's helpful to call them poisons.

That definition of medical drug is not mine... but the pharmacists'...

Let us say that you have chapped skin... you put a lotion on it which will help... however the lotion cannot be called a medical drug... because it is not poisonous...

I read that definition of medical drugs while I was in school and sadly I cannot give you a link to it...

And, as I said before... medical drugs are good... but they should only be used when needed...
.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by escapee

I bet you aren't taking Aspirin as a preventive medicine , are you ?

No I am not because I never had angina and there are no history of myocardial infarction in my family... however... it the contrary were true... I would certainly take an aspirin a day... since I am not a hemophiliac and do not suffer from ulcers and such...

Modern medicine is far from being perfect... but it is certainly a huge improvement over folks medicine...
.

[escapee]

Modern medicine is far from being perfect... but it is certainly a huge improvement over folks medicine...

I hope you arent implying that the advancement of nutritional science as some kind of folks medicine. There is a big difference in between the 2


When you introduce what is essential to the body from healthy source ( essential fats, protein, minerals and etc ) . Your body will naturally produce Prostacyclin ( the number one natural blood thinner ).

Prostacyclin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Prostacyclin is a member of the family of lipid molecules known as eicosanoids. A synthetic form of prostacyclin, used as a medicine, is referred to as epoprostenol.

Prostacyclin acts chiefly to prevent platelet formation and clumping involved in blood clotting. It is also an effective vasodilator. Prostacyclin's interactions in contrast to thromboxane, another eicosanoid, strongly suggest a mechanism of cardiovascular homeostasis between the two hormones in relation to vascular damage.

and its counter force - Thromboxane as needed in response to injury

Thromboxane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thromboxane is a vasoconstrictor and a potent hypertensive agent, and it facilitates platelet aggregation.

It is in homeostatic balance in the circulatory system with prostacyclin, a related compound.

What the Aspirin is doing is stopping the production of Thromboxane in response to injury so the blood does not clog all over the place. THe question we want to ask is, Do we want to stop the source of inflammation ( oxidized oil, trans fats and etc ) or the production of inflammatory agent ? If the answer is the latter , then it's like placing the blame on the police for the accident caused by drunk drivers.

IT is in my belief that western nutritional science ( not folks medicine ) should be incorporated into standard medicinal practice. It should not be regarded as ALTERNATIVEs.. THe biggest disadvantage is the doc will make less $$ as less patients return back for another round of "trauma intervention" .




Trans fat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The primary health risk identified for trans fat consumption is an elevated risk of coronary heart disease (CHD).[26] A comprehensive review of studies of trans fats was published in 2006 in the New England Journal of Medicine that concludes that there is a strong and reliable connection between trans fat consumption and CHD.[3]


The major evidence for the effect of trans fat on CHD comes from the Nurses' Health Study (NHS) — a cohort study that has been following 120,000 female nurses since its inception in 1976. In this study, Hu and colleagues analyzed data from 900 coronary events from the NHS population during 14 years of followup. He determined that a nurse's CHD risk roughly doubled (relative risk of 1.94, CI: 1.43 to 2.61) for each 2% increase in trans fat calories consumed (instead of carbohydrate calories). By contrast, it takes more than a 15% increase in saturated fat calories (instead of carbohydrate calories) to produce a similar increase in risk. Eating non-trans unsaturated fats instead of carbohydrates reduces the risk of CHD rather than increasing it.[27] Hu also reports on the benefits of reducing trans fat consumption. Replacing 2% of food energy from trans fat with non-trans unsaturated fats more than halves the risk of CHD (53%). By comparison, replacing a larger 5% of food energy from saturated fat with non-trans unsaturated fats reduces the risk of CHD by 43%.[27]

Another study considered deaths due to CHD, with consumption of trans fats being linked to an increase in mortality, and consumption of polyunsaturated fats ( Essential fatty acids )being linked to a decrease in mortality.[26][28]

[escapee]

The good science

Oxidized LDL levels showed a "strong and graded association (P <0.001) with the presence and extent of coronary artery disease," reported Sotirios Tsimikas, M.D., of the University of San Diego and colleagues in the July 7 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.


Although phospholipids such as LDL are important to the structural integrity of cells, when oxidized they can promote inflammation, which in turn can lead to coronary artery disease, the researchers said.

Investigators from Osaka, Japan report that patients with high blood levels of oxidized LDL cholesterol have a significantly higher risk of heart attacks than patients with unoxidized LDL. If their results are reproduced in larger studies, measuring oxidized LDL levels may help doctors detect high-risk patients for early treatment.

Measurement of oxidized LDL levels is an investigational tool that, so far, is not available for routing clinical testing

"The levels of oxidized LDL circulating in the blood correlate well with the severity of disease," says Tsimikas. "The sicker the patient, the higher the levels of circulating oxidized LDL, indicating that it is a marker of atherosclerotic plaques."

Researchers found that average levels of ox-LDL in patients who had a heart attack were 1.95 nanograms (ng) per 5 micrograms of LDL protein, compared to 1.19 ng/5 micrograms LDL for those with unstable angina, 0.89 ng/5 micrograms LDL for stable angina and 0.58 ng/5 micrograms LDL for controls. The more serious the condition, the higher the oxidized LDL. The researchers say this observation strongly suggests that the amount of oxidized LDL in circulating plasma could serve as a marker for cardiovascular events.

Guess what is the best food source to enhance OXIDIZED LDL ?

ScienceDaily: Form Of Cholesterol Singled Out As Cause Of Chest Pain, Heart Attack
Oxidized LDL cholesterol predicts heart attacks

ScienceDaily: Fast Food Can Speed Up Clogging Of The Arteries

Eating a "Western" diet with lots of processed or fried foods can raise blood levels of "oxidized" cholesterol -- a particularly damaging form of cholesterol -- and could increase heart attack risk, scientists say.

Researchers report in this month's Arteriosclerosis, Thrombosis and Vascular Biology: Journal of the American Heart Association about a study with rabbits that demonstrates blood levels of oxidized cholesterol match up with the quantity of oxidized cholesterol in the diet. The researchers found that in rabbits, the dietary oxidized cholesterol accelerated the process of atherosclerosis, or clogging of the blood vessels.

The scientists examined two sets of rabbits with similar genetic makeup. One set was fed a higher amount of oxidized cholesterol. In studying the rabbits 12 weeks later, scientists found that small quantities of oxidized cholesterol (25 milligrams per day) increased atherosclerotic lesions by 100 percent in comparison to those rabbits not fed the extra oxidized cholesterol

DO you see the limitation of Cholesterol reducing drug ? It just cannot reduce enough of Oxidized LDL (while destroying the brain function at the same time - one of the potential side effects of Statin class drugs - Lipitor).

Amazon.com: Lipitor: Thief of Memory, Statin Drugs and the Misguided War on Cholesterol: Books: Duane Graveline

[munish]

Originally Posted by DeathStorm

Do you think that pharmaceuticals are only a "quick fix" and that the body could really "heal itself"?

?

Read this
Welcome to the town of Allopath
Town of Allopath a Hilarious Video Parody on What is Wrong with Conventional Medicine

Originally Posted by DeathStorm

In the past months I had several minor injuries and was prescribed plenty of
by the doctor, both oral and injected (especially NSAIDs, many of them!).
?

But here you can't avoid pharmaceuticals,in the case of an injury.

[escapee]

More good science on the subject of OXIDIZED LDL Vs CHD that the popular media tend to overlook.

Plasma Oxidized Low-Density Lipoprotein, a Strong Predictor for Acute Coronary Heart Disease Events in Apparently Healthy, Middle-Aged Men From the General Population -- Meisinger et al. 112 (5): 651 -- Circulation

Background— Oxidized LDL (oxLDL) is thought to play a key role in the inflammatory response in the arterial vessel wall.

Methods and Results— In a prospective, nested, case-control study, the association between plasma oxLDL and risk of an acute co