Question: Sugar and Fruit

[ericwordelman]

I'm aware consuming caffeine/sugar lowers awareness closer to an instinctive mammal, but does that include sugar that is naturally occuring in fruit as well? Because, if it does than I do not want to do that to myself anymore. I do have a tendency to eat a lot of fruit and I just want to know if it's okay or not. I don't eat any candy or anything artificially added with sugar only fruit, but I have a feeling that even the sugar in fruit is just as bad as candy or something. Should I avoid sugar at all costs even naturally occurring in fruits?

[escapee]

I think it's the amount that matter the most though fruits are always better than highly refined sugar which is deprived of other nutrients. If you have accidentally eaten a bunch of sweet fruits ( due to craving) . Be ready to spend it through alot of exercise ( like Okinawan ) because you clearly do not want your body insulin to stay elevated for 24 hours/day.

10. One glass of orange juice [6 tsp sugar] provides the energy to run 1 mile. [But goes to body fat if not used immediately!] Nutrition for Fitness and Sport, pg. 59.

. Humans cannot utilize fructose [sugar] from more than 2 pieces of fruit at a time. Basic Medical Biochemistry - A Clinical Approach, pg. 404.

8. Hospital patients are not allowed more than 7 tsp of sugar per hour, yet Americans are told by the U.S. government [food pyramid] and nutritionists to eat up to 20 tsp sugar at each meal: breakfast, lunch, and dinner! Body Fluids and Electrolytes, pages: 71-72.

• New Diabetes Nutrition Guidelines Play Down Importance of Carbohydrate source. Diabetes Care, January 2002.


1. “…De-emphasize the importance of the glycemic index of foods.”

2. “The source of the carbohydrates is not as important as the total amount….”

Landmarks in Nutrition & Health

I was sicken twice by eaten too much sweet fruits so ..... the above info really do "strike a cord" with my own experience.

[ginkgo]

The first statement is totally wrong. It is good to be in touch with your body's intelligence. It is designed to keep you healthy. It is what animals use even though they have not been taught what to eat. They way to turn this on is by fasting. Moses and Jesus fasted but so do many animals.

The way you know what foods are good for health, just eat what tastes good and that is best for health. Read this article, Using Your Animal Instincts to Lose Weight. Rats know what to eat by instinct but man has made rat poison which fools them. Scientifically speaking, the sugar in fruit enters your blood very slowly. The home page of above site explains that fruit is the healthiest food. What do you call people who only eat meat? They do not have a name since there are not any except Dr Salisbury (RIP). There are thousands of fruitarians (only eat fruit) in America.

That site above has a link to a picture of one who is a bodybuilder. I am not saying that you should be one. The healthiset foods for you to eat are those created by nature or God. The worst ones are the ones made by man. The latter are designed to make you fat and addicted to eating a lot of their foods so you will buy lots of them. This is good business. Now in America you have a big group of people (that is growing) that only eat raw food. All the animals eat raw food except for monkeys, apes, racoons, beavers and people. Just kidding. Man is the only animal that cooks food.

Also man uses chemical pesticides when growing food which is against the law in Russia. Doing it there makes you a criminal. Also man genetically modifies food including fruits. But our capitalistic society is based on one thing and that is profit or money. It is not based on health. No animals smoke cigarettes either. Although since fruit passes through your stomach quickly, it should be eaten alone not with some meat, potaoes and ice cream.

In school, kids learn how to count money at an early age but are not taught anything about eating healthy. Most Americans do not know that all plant foods have plenty of fiber, unless man has taken it out. Animal foods have no fiber. Fruit can have different types of fiber like gums and pectins but candy has no fiber. Also it is healthier to eat water than to drink water. The above mentioned fruitarian bodybuilder has not drank any liquids for over a year.

Also man puts salt in food. A quarter pounder is 4 ounces. You can eat 10 of them together and not die. Put 4 ounces of salt in some water and drink it and you will die. That is about 120,000 milligrams of salt. There is a technique to never overeat any food. Eat the raw food alone and not combined with any other foods. Your body's intelligence will keep you from overeating. There are people who eat only this way. They are called instinctos. Science is constantly discovering that they are wrong. Also many studies are paid for by food companies.

[Addict]

Wow. Just wow.

Our society is so bombarded with new and inaccurate nutritional guidelines, that most people apparently have no idea what to eat.

We try to remember new guidelines. We count calories. We look for fat, carbs, and sugar. We hunt down the latest vitamin fad. America has been bombarded with this kind of information for decades and guess what? We have an obesity epidemic now.

I believe that all this diet nonsense has served to do nothing but distract us from the real issue: that what we eat today barely resembles real food at all.

You can't live healthy by remembering a million guidelines and counting every little thing. You need one heuristic to live by. One simple rule.

One rule.

To ring them all? No. You need one rule that will serve you well when deciding what to eat. I think ginkgo has a great example:

The healthiset foods for you to eat are those created by nature or God. The worst ones are the ones made by man.

Using something like this, we can see that fruit is one of the absolute healthiest options and that it is quite disturbing to compare to something like soda or a poptart. Go look at one of these items. List off the dozens of ingredients. Ask yourself: did the humans behind these artificial or processed ingredients invent them perfectly for human consumption. Think about how biologically complex a food is. I think you will quickly answer no.

Our species has had millions of year to adapt to the environments and the available food sources. Fruit is not new. Fruit tastes amazing raw. Therefore, I conclude fruit is probably one of the healthiest possible foods you can eat. Moderation might be required, but that goes for anything. You compared fruit to caffeine and refined sugar. How long has our species had to adapt to these two foods as compared to fruit? You can see the difference, right?

Please think on this. I really don't believe our current dietary attitude is getting us anywhere when these kinds of conclusions are drawn.

I do, by the way, commend you for contemplating on your own health, your own knowledge, and drawing your own conclusions. Far too many people never do this.

[escapee]

The home page of above site explains that fruit is the healthiest food. What do you call people who only eat meat? They do not have a name since there are not any except Dr Salisbury (RIP). There are thousands of fruitarians (only eat fruit) in America.

I can only warn some of you who think it's possible to be a 100% fruitarian and be healthy all the time. Those thousands of Fruitarians in Ameican will be in a decreasing trend because human are not designed to consume a 100% fruits diet . I'm sorry Ginkgo, it doesnt work that way. I'm hoping that you will not even attempt to be a Fruitarian and losing all your teeth as a consequence.

Dr Bass research on fruitariam with mice
Dr. Stanley S. Bass: Super nutrition and superior health -- Natural Hygiene theory - drug-free healing

Mice and the fruitarian diet
I put a group of mice on a fruitarian diet. But they didn't seem to be eating very much fruit, and they certainly weren't crazy about it. .....

..... When I returned them to the fruitarian diet, after the second day they started the cannibalistic behavior again. They grabbed another young mouse and this time they ate it. The poor thing. I saw it happen. I was shocked. I'd never seen anything like this. "What happened here?" I asked myself. I had given them a fruitarian diet, a diet that some natural health practitioners fervently believe in. Then I added corn, then avocado, foods that fruitarians are not supposed to include, and still I ran into trouble. It really scared me to witness what had happened to my mice. I worried then and still worry about people who attempt to be fruitarians.

The Fallacy of Fruitarianism--Word Games vs. the Real World

Simply put: Humans are not apes. As a number of Natural Hygiene practitioners have noted, however, few humans can eat even 2/3 fruit over long periods of time without getting into serious difficulties. We had several M2M folks try near-fruitarian diets, and no one had any lasting success with it, although some have done fine for several months at first, perhaps even a year or two. In fact, those that we knew of in the M2M reported getting into trouble trying to do so and later regretted their naivete in attempting it, due to the problems that eventually followed. The two most common repercussions of long-term attempts at fruitarianism are usually that the teeth are the first to go, then people's blood-sugar processing abilities, along with deficiencies.

Benesh listed the following symptoms of people on long-term fruitarian diets that he had seen in his own Natural Hygiene practice, which we should note are not so very different from those mentioned earlier in this interview for the majority of other total-raw-foodists who experience long-term troubles:


[R]idged nails, gingivitis, dental caries, dry skin and brittle hair, lowered red blood cell count and low hemoglobin percentage. Over a long period of time (at least one year or more) the blood serum level drops to a point of an impending pathological state if not corrected.
Many of them display serious signs of neurological disorders, while some experience emotional upsets and extreme nervousness and often complain of insomnia. When their nutritional program is corrected these signs disappear and the patient finds himself in a much improved state of health.

I recently spoke with a health-minded medical doctor, who embarked on this lopsided program and did very well, experiencing a high state health for about a year, when almost suddenly a loss of weight was experienced and neurological signs were evident. This doctor took a series of blood and serum tests plus other pertinent tests, which verified what I have observed in fruitarians and excessive fruit-eaters, and corroborates my findings.

Another cardinal lack that occurs quite often is a distinct lack of vitamin B-12. This lack of B-12 gives rise to the neurological signs that indicate a serious deprivation of this vital element needed to keep the nervous system operating at a so-called normal level.

Eric, Your suspicion on Fruits is RIGHT . One apple a day keeps the doc away , the second or more BRING HIM BACK !!. ( By Udorasmus )

Believe the science (backed up by real results ) , not the opinion .

[Shindra]

Originally Posted by ericwordelman

I'm aware consuming caffeine/sugar lowers awareness closer to an instinctive mammal, but does that include sugar that is naturally occuring in fruit as well? Because, if it does than I do not want to do that to myself anymore. I do have a tendency to eat a lot of fruit and I just want to know if it's okay or not. I don't eat any candy or anything artificially added with sugar only fruit, but I have a feeling that even the sugar in fruit is just as bad as candy or something. Should I avoid sugar at all costs even naturally occurring in fruits?

Hi Eric. I saw you pose this same question in response to the Joy of Sadness blogpost, where Steve wrote about an urge to ingest sugar related to avoiding/suppressing emotions. I believe he meant refined sugar (/artificially added sugar). It is this kind of sugar that is unhealthy.
Sugar isn't an all-around bad thing - the human body Needs at least some sugar. It is possible to get too much sugar from fruit, but I believe it is much more difficult. It is commonly known that it is healthy to eat a lot of fruit and vegetables, and fruit is half of that sentence. As has been mentioned, there are also people who eat only fruit, and believe this is healthiest. I believe we also need vegetables and nuts and such. I read on some fruitarian sites that it was common to be more "emotionally sensitive" on that diet, which when I read the details seemed to be not the kind of emotional awareness we're looking for, but a kind of instability and possibly partial depression that can be attributed to lack of some nutrients. However, fruitarianism might work well for some, depending on which kinds of fruit they eat.
Some people are concerned that modern hybrid fruit contains higher amounts of sugar than wild fruit. You might want to google that. Everything in moderation, however, fruit is basically healthy, that is a well-known fact that I've never heard anyone contest. You might just want to avoid the 'extra sweet pineapple', and there are apples that are pleasantly tart and some grapes are less sweet than others.

That data I have on this that I trust the most is my own experience. When I'm feeling well, neither frustrated nor sad or apathetic, I feel naturally inclined to eat fruit on an even level with vegetables and nuts and other good things. When I'm feeling down I want to eat fat cheese and sweet jam - and excessive amounts of fat nuts and seeds - though that is a healthy kind of fat, it can also be used wrongly. I've tried satiating the urge to eat something sweet with fruit in such a situation, and found that eating sweet fruit didn't help suppress my emotions the way jam, cake, candy or fat does. Only the actual act of eating was distracting, like idle entertainment. So I trust fruit. I haven't tried to really gorge myself on fruit though, eating well beyond what it takes to feel full. More in the order of half of a large, very sweet watermelon or one or two mangos, eaten slowly. A lot of fat -and mindless, purposeless internet reading- works much better.

Basically, I'd suggest you simply notice what you're drawn to eat when you're feeling down or apathetic, and if you're in doubt, test and see what suppresses your emotions. Then avoid that, and face your fears.

[escapee]

However, fruitarianism might work well for some, depending on which kinds of fruit they eat.

THe above made me cringing to the far corner. You have suggested that "everything in moderation" is the best why the contradiction. Dont even think of testing 100% fruit diet for long term if you do not plan to lose some of your teeth and getting into health trouble.

I've been totally wrong before and I might be totally wrong now, so if I'm totally wrong, just forget everything I ever said.

OKAY

[Addict]

escapee, I don't think for a second that fruitarianism is a good idea. However, your quote about more than one apple a day seems misguided.

Eric, Your suspicion on Fruits is RIGHT. One apple a day keeps the doc away , the second or more BRING HIM BACK !!.

Are you joking? eric wasn't asking about fruitariansim. He was asking about avoiding fruit completely. So you actually don't agree with his suspicions if you suggest eat fruit at all.

I thought your quote about the lack of nutrients was good, but the other quotes are poor evidence.

-You quote someone who says "we are not apes," but then you give a dietary study on MICE!
-You gave a quote concerning diabetics. Not relevant at all.
-You have a quote about fruit juice. Juice!=fruit.

I completely support your distaste for fruitarianism, but I don't really think anyone in this thread is arguing for it. If anything, they are just arguing that eliminating fruit altogether is a bad idea and I agree.

[escapee]

The quote is by the "fat man" Udo erasmus. It's just a quote to warn ppl of the danger of eating to much fruits. If you have any serious problem with the quote, go to Official website of UDO ERASMUS > The Truth About Fats! > Omega3, Flaxseed, EFAs - Essential Fatty Acids, Fats That Heal Fats That Kill; World-Renowned Authority on Fats and Human Nutrition and contact the fat man or sue him for posting such a misguided quote.

Are you joking? eric wasn't asking about fruitariansim. He was asking about avoiding fruit completely. So you actually don't agree with his suspicions if you suggest eat fruit at all.

I wasnt responding to Eric, it was for Ginkgo who proudly posted that they are thousand of fruitarians in America and hence ....

If the argument can prevent few ppl ( reading the post ) from considering the crazy route to become fruitarian . It's an argument worth having .

[Addict]

Alright, well, I can't disagree with you there. If you're just trying to prevent people from going fruitarian, I understand and I agree with you.

In the distant future, I might actually try fruitarianism just to see how bad it is. Then again, I'm not trying anything that causes irreversible damage.

[escapee]

In the distant future, I might actually try fruitarianism just to see how bad it is. Then again, I'm not trying anything that causes irreversible damage.

Oh no, Just dont do it. You're going to lose some teeth (irreversible ) in the process of doing it

I recommend doing some study on Dr Stanley Bass' work with 100% fruit diet before even considering your own experimentation with the Xtreme diet.

FRUIT - FRIEND OR FOE - Dr. Stanley Bass: My experiences with fruit

He told me about his experiences while following Arnold Ehret, which led to deficiencies in his diet. He once went on a grape cure, recommended by Johanna Brandt. He lived on nothing but grapes, cases of them for about 35 days. He ate pounds of them at each meal. By the 32nd day, his gum was bleeding, and his teeth loosened in their sockets. He said that one of his teeth fell out of his mouth. He exclaimed, "My God, I am detoxicating my teeth."

I began this project testing raw vegetarian/vegan diets, cooked, lacto-vegetarian, ovo-vegetarian, lacto-ovo-vegetarian, the addition of fish, fowl, meat etc. both raw and cooked. After awhile, I tested the fruitarian diet. In a cage of 40 white mice I put all kinds of fruit. They ate some but were still hungry, so I added fresh corn-on-the-cob and avocado. All seemed well until the 3rd day, when I went to the cage, I saw 8 dead bodies with the heads missing and parts of some bodies eaten. I was shocked at the carnage. This was equivalent to severe deficiencies occurring to humans after 2 months on this type of diet. I immediately put the cage on a full diet including raw milk cheese, cooked food, grains, etc. to stop the deaths. Even with the diet change, other deaths followed for about 4 more days before it ended and conditions returned to normal.

[bluskygirl]

I completely agree with the idea that healthy food come from nature, whereas bad ones are man made. That's a good rule to follow. I'm sorry for not referencing who said it... this post was long.

I think it's also important to think about the idea of letting our bodies tell us when they need and when they need it. It is in fact how the rest of Earth's creatures survive, and we have stopped using our bodies and their signals to help us eat properly. It's hard because food is readily available, so the messages don't seem as useful to us and we ignore them. But, I find if I may attention I'll notice my body craving something in particular, such as meat (i.e. my body is in need of protein or some amino acid that I'm running low on) or milk (must be needing some calcium).

We all eat so much and so many different things that it's no wonder our bodies rarely get a chance to communicate to us. Anyway, in my opinion fruit is good for you. I eat three piece of fruit a day, one with each meal. I eat at least as many servings of vegetables and other things like protein. So, I think balance and moderation is important, but eat natural and listen to your body!

[CoolStuff]

The healthiset foods for you to eat are those created by nature or God. The worst ones are the ones made by man.

That's a good guideline. I started following it 2-3 months ago. It feels great.

Refined sugar (white sugar) is definitely much worse for you than fruits. You might be craving the salt that's in that cookie, not the sugar.

escapee, very good point about hospital patients not being allowed that much sugar, but everyone else is encouraged to eat more. I use a similar analogy (not safe for pregnant women, how is ). People like to answer these analogies with "well of course they're more fragile because they're a [pregnant woman or hospital patient]."

[ericwordelman]

I'm actually on an all raw vegan diet, but haven't really found many vegetables that are good enough to eat raw so I've mainly been eating a lot of nuts and fruits lately. I really don't know any vegetables that are good to eat raw. The only vegetables I've been eating are avocados and tomatoes.

[Addict]

Carrots! They are amazing raw. People usually like celery as well.

What about salad? You can put tons of raw vegetables in there.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by ericwordelman

I'm actually on an all raw vegan diet, but haven't really found many vegetables that are good enough to eat raw so I've mainly been eating a lot of nuts and fruits lately. I really don't know any vegetables that are good to eat raw. The only vegetables I've been eating are avocados and tomatoes.

cucumber
radish (big white, big black, and small red ones)
mushrooms
peas
sweet pepper
white cabbage
cauliflower
cabbage turnip
carotts
celleri
spinach (fresh young leaves)
green salad
beetroot
scallions
all sorts of sprouts
all sorts of herbs (basil, chives, parsley, dill, ...)

if you don't like them, try to find organic ones before you decide they are not good enough! It tastes muuuuch better. Maybe you ate conventionally grown vegetables. I personally often think these are tasting as interesting as toilet paper.

you can mix vegetables with fruit too, so your diet is not that fruit intensive. For example I love green salad with white mushrooms, soy sprouts and apple pieces. Or cucumber-melon-mix with dill and sunflower seeds. Or grated celleri with ananas. Or carrott-apple-salad with parsley and cashew nuts. And so on