For example secretsstolen the premise of The Bhagavad-Gita, is that the main character is a king or something and is going to have a battle with another side and he's depressed because he has friends on both sides of the battle. Krishna's message is that it's his duty to engage in the battle but to surrender any personal stake in it. That's what the Bhagavad-Gita preaches: taking right action without desiring the fruit of action.

D.T. Suzuki was also famously implicated in Nazi and Japanese warfare philosophy of killing with complete detachment. They were going to war anyway so he advocated learning Buddhist spirituality through the act of war. One of Himmler's favorite books is The Bhagavad-Gita. Now seeing the "bad guys" use spiritual principle to rationalize murder and torture freaks me out as much as anyone, but it sure is interesting!

Personally, I am in awe of the Gita, but I always think it has been written for Gods, not humans. What you say about Himmler doesn't surprise me. I have seen the same sentiment in Christians, aiming to help people when in fact they subconsciously despised them. Repressed feelings is a very, very serious spiritual matter; you think you are helping humanity when in fact you kill yourself and others in the process.

@Chris, have you ever had one of those personal experiences where you then think "So that's what they were talking about!" I know I have, and I think that we should endeavor to make the concepts distinguishable, if we're going to talk about them at all--because the point of talking in the first place is throw out ideas using shared concepts and definitions. Obviously we'll never be prefect at that, but neither is any area of language.

I don't want to make presumptions about your experience, but it makes perfect sense that dropping making conclusions about the world in favor of just experiencing it would produce no internal conflict. If I'm understanding you right, that's what being "in the moment" is all about.

I really don't see any conflict between the way I look at the world and an interest in spirituality, although that certainly depends on your definition. Christians definitely don't think I'm spiritual, because to them spirituality is a personal relationship with a dead guy and his non existent father, who is also him (looks like somebody got a hold of a time machine ). A lot of atheists probably wouldn't consider me spiritual either, because to them spirituality means belief in supernatural agents.

I don't believe in belief. Or rather, I don't believe in belief as method of determining facts about the cosmos that have a good chance of corresponding to an external reality assuming there is such a thing. That's actually one of the things that got me interested in Eastern concepts of spirituality in the first place, because it's very concerned with the nature of subjective experience and undoing conditioning in an effort to see the world as it is.

@taylor, I find it interesting too, but not surprising really. Things that give one more power (defined simply as ability to affect change) are going to be used for all kinds of causes--although, it's apparently massively harder to twist contemplative traditions for violence than Abrahamic ones! (one could argue that the OT, NT, and Koran aren't even being twisted, but that's a whole other topic).

I have secrets. I guess I actually am reaching the point where I see it nearly pointless for me to discuss any of it. It just goes round and round. On an analytical level your judgment about my experience would make sense. However, the irony is that you can't analyze an experience that can only be had without any intellectual analysis in order to understand it. The part that makes sense to you isn't actually what it is at all. I've found myself in almost complete surrender to the flow of life. I've literally been enjoying every day without having a single goal. I've come to see that everything I need happens/ comes to me exactly when I need it. My needs are met in every single moment and I'm coming to peace with my external situation. The more I seem to come to complete peace with my surroundings the faster they change for the good. I feel a tremendous connection with everything and my heart feels completely open even in times of frustration or anger.

Two days ago I wrote a 10.4 million dollar check to a girl at a casino here. She acted like it was all a dream. However, she realized she wouldn't have to worry about hardly anything from that day on. I feel like I'm in the exact same boat. Except I got there without feeling like excess money had to be part of that equation. There's still a part of me struggling saying "make some goals!, hurry!" but it's fading away. I'm feeling less and less like life is a race or that there is anything specific I need to achieve. I go about my day doing exactly what interests me in the moment. Most of it is having more meaningful interactions with others and enjoying nature which I've always had a soft spot for.