Feedback request: deleting old threads by visitor request?

[Steve Pavlina]

This is a general forum issue for which I'd like your input.

A few times each month, I get requests from visitors asking to completely delete old threads they've written. Sometimes they want me to nuke everything they've ever written, even if it amounts to dozens of posts.

In this forum people may disclose a lot of personal information, only to later realize they've revealed more than they're comfortable with. Some people have expressed concern that out their bosses, co-workers, and/or significant others will eventually connect them to their personally revealing posts here.

Old threads become part of the permanent archives, and many threads do show up in search engines.

Here's how I've been handling such requests thus far:

• If a thread only has a single post (or maybe just some very basic one-line replies), I'll usually nuke it upon request of the thread starter. These requests are not common though, since thread starters can delete/modify their own posts for the first 24 hours anyway.
• If there are already serious replies from others, I don't feel right about deleting whole threads simply because the thread starter changed his/her mind. So I've always turned down such requests in the past.

This assumes of course that the thread was legitimate and wasn't spam to begin with.

Typically these deletion requests involve threads that have dozens of legitimate replies. Frequently the thread starter has revealed some personal info and asked for advice, and lots of legitimate discussion has followed.

Even though my own life isn't very private, I am sensitive to people's privacy concerns. My current philosophy, however, is that people must be individually responsible for what they post in public forums, even if their posts have consequences for them later.

Is this a good policy? What would you do in this situation?

[lizthefair]

This may be more work than it's worth (or totally impossible) but what about creating a dummy account for those instances? Rather than deleting the message, you would just re-assign it to a made-up account with a gender neutral name--or just "anonymous". If there was still identifying information you might be able to change the details as well, but just changing the name (and mixing all of the anonymous comments together under one account) might be enough most of the time.

The value of this plan is it honors peoples request for privacy without removing thoughtful conversations. The downside is it puts the onus for protecting people from themselves on you.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

[list][*]If a thread only has a single post (or maybe just some very basic one-line replies), I'll usually nuke it upon request of the thread starter. These requests are not common though, since thread starters can delete/modify their own posts for the first 24 hours anyway.

Hello. I'd like to know why this has changed. To be honest, I haven't been timing the passage of time between when I wrote a post and edited/deleted it, but I'm sure more than 24 hours had passed in the past. It's quite a discouragement to posting (for someone like me anyway).

[aaronmp2003]

I think this clearly falls into the realm of personal responsibility of the person who put their information out there to begin with. Forum members, moderators, and owners can't be expected to police up messes that are left behind by emotionally distraught people, or even just by people who have a change of heart later.

I'd say that beyond the normal time frame that is allowed for the thread originator to delete the thread, once it is there, it is there. People need to be able to take responsibility for their actions on the Internet just like they do out in the real world.

[Chinese Dragon]

I think the 24 hours is enough. People need to take responsibility for their words, the moderators can't be taking back what others have said just because they've had a change of heart. Plus I don't think anyone ever likes following links to threads to see that they're deleted or locked.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by lizthefair

This may be more work than it's worth (or totally impossible) but what about creating a dummy account for those instances? Rather than deleting the message, you would just re-assign it to a made-up account with a gender neutral name--or just "anonymous". If there was still identifying information you might be able to change the details as well, but just changing the name (and mixing all of the anonymous comments together under one account) might be enough most of the time.

The value of this plan is it honors peoples request for privacy without removing thoughtful conversations. The downside is it puts the onus for protecting people from themselves on you.

I was going to suggest the exact same thing - if, that is, there aren't very many requests like that. Is this something the mods could do? (Is it even possible?) Hmmmm... tho if many people saw posts from "anon", they might want to be able to post anonymously, leading to more requests along those lines. Perhaps only in extreme instances?... With sufficient begging and pleading from the OP?

[lizthefair]

Originally Posted by carenkh

Hmmmm... tho if many people saw posts from "anon", they might want to be able to post anonymously, leading to more requests along those lines.

This is an important point. If it's **too** easy to "take it back" than people are likely to be less careful about what they post, because they know the natural consequences can be counter-acted. On the other-hand, I'm not sure people should lose their jobs (or lose sleep thinking they will lose their jobs) over something they posted on the internet in a moment of weakness.

What if the name wasn't anonymous but rather something like "I thought better of it in the morning" or "TMI". As for the making it hard--the begging thing isn't so bad. My first thought was to have people write an essay about why they want the post re-named and what they will do to avoid such posting in the future. We could also have a rule saying each user only gets 1 (or 2) Mulligans. Again, I'm not a moderator, so I don't know if this makes sense based on your current level of work. I also tend to make solutions more complicated than they need to be so there maybe a simpler solution out there.

[Shamou]

Steve!

What I would do would be to send those requests to Angela... I have found her to be extremely logical and fair minded... so, she could decide on a case by case basis what should and what should not be deleted...

That way, every cases could be viewed individually without you having the added burden on an a already impressive workload...

PS. - I am not saying that the other MODs are not also logical and fair minded... it's just that I have seen more of Angela's work and postings...
.

[Freelancer]

If the post is for instance older than 3 months and on page 10 or something you can just delete it since the odds of somebody looking at it is slim in the first place. This offcourse assumes that the requests are maneagable so that you won't get completely flooded. Another concern some people raised is that posters might get careless with personal information, I doubt this is going to be a problem unless you put in FAQ something like 'PM a mod to delete you post after 24 hours'. New posters probably don't know about the possibility of deleting posts and should assume that it isn't possible, this means that only the serious requests get through.

About the personal information, well its not very important for me but for some people its a really big deal and this forum is for helping not for sticking to rigid rules. Now I'm all for leaving it the responsibility in the posters hands but everybody makes mistakes at times and it can have some serious consequences.


Conclusion;
I'd say allow it unless it gets abused or its a important thread (like a 10 page 'post your picture thread' or 10 page 'post your contact information' thread). I'm sure the mods can deal with both exceptions.

[Bitsy]

If you can edit or delete your post with no time limit, that might account for a great deal of deletes or changes people might want to make.

Last spring/winter, I asked Steve if I could delete some threads I had begun, as I came to regret having started them and also things I wrote in them. I accepted the fact that the threads could not be deleted and I was glad I was able to edit some things out and then delete the other posts. In my opinion, this was a fine system. You just have to be aware when you are starting a thread; don't start a thread if you may regret what you are writing, and if you do, at least know you can edit it at any time - and in this case, the deleting/editing is not the work of any other person but the poster.

[seeker5]

I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, I like the option of deleting a thread that I started. On the other hand, I'd hate for what I spent time writing in someone else's thread to be deleted.

One option to making sure the thread deletion is not used frivolous is to require a $10 or $20 donation to a charity if someone requests a thread deleted. But then that runs into the problem of people wanting to stay anonymous and hence the reason for the request to have the thread removed. It's hard to stay anonymous if you're sending money online.

[Erin Pavlina]

I vote for some prevention. It should be made clear to people in the user agreement that unless there is a really compelling reason to do so, we will not delete threads with discussion already attached to them. People need to decide in advance what they will post and then live with it.

Extraordinary circumstances, to me, include legal situations, threats, or something unsafe (like if someone posted their physical address).

Otherwise, people need to take responsibility for their actions before they make them.

I think a case by case basis is the best way to go.

My 2 cents.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

As someone who might be more than a little embarrased to have someone she knows in 'real life' stumble on some of my past threads, I have to say asking to have them deleted is tempting. However, many, many people responded to some of my desperate pleas for help with long, thoughtful responses. I value the time they spent to help me out, so I would feel awful just making it vanish.

I am pretty much of the opinion that (except for situations like Erin pointed out) it should not be a possibility. It's sometimes painful when I come across an old post, but that just reminds me I have work left to do.

I have heard of people losing a job/not getting hired because of stuff on the internet (such as their MySpace account). But I keep a degree of anonymity by not posting my full name. Maybe one of the rules could state that deletion requests cannot be honored due to the workload and therefore do not post under your real name unless you intend to never say anything you might regret .

[Rose of Cairo]

I am pretty much of the opinion that (except for situations like Erin pointed out) it should not be a possibility.

I agree. Sometimes I'd love to ask all those smart and gentle people here for advice concerning very private things too. But I know posting in a public forum is like shouting on the street (even worse. it's all recorded forever... ). Everyone should be responsible for what he/she says, as it would be in real life.

So, Steve, my opinion is that your current policy is absolutely ok and makes sense.

[wolfgang]

Make us pay money if we want posts deleted. The only reason I asked once was because the thread was bothering me, not from exposure of life details or saying the wrong thing. Sometimes a conversation just starts rubbing you the wrong way.

[Matthew Shea]

Overall, I'd say personal responsibility should be the rule of the day, as most others have suggested. I've posted a lot of personal stuff myself, but I always think it through and have yet to regret anything I've put online. We all make mistakes, but 24 hours should be plenty of time to re-think something and edit it. More than that and too many threads would get ruined when the OP had second thoughts and deleted the first post. Some other forums I'm on have as little as 60 minutes of edit time. If someone has an intensely personal topic they need advice on, I'd say it would be wise to contact the mods via PM first for advice on how to post the information in a way they won't regret later.

For the issue of people requesting mass deletion of posts, I'd say it should be policy to turn them down outright. That's simply irresponsible on the poster's part and it shouldn't be the forum owner's responsibility to cater to their carelessness. Deletion requests should identify a reasonable (read: small) number of specific posts.

I also like the idea of altering a post's ownership. I've seen other forums where a post shows up under "Guest" or "Anonymous" after an account has been deleted. I'd support that if someone simply wants their account removed. I think that would provide enough privacy protection in most cases and the discussion would remain completely intact. The only shortcoming here is that people often reference other posters by name when replying, so if you know a poster's screen name, you could still search it and find some results. It would make tracing someone's posts more difficult, though.

I also agree with Erin that something should be included in the user agreement, preferably near the top, indicating that posts will only be removed under exceptional circumstances.

[Jill]

Originally Posted by Erin

Otherwise, people need to take responsibility for their actions before they make them.

Yep, my feelings exactly.

[seeker5]

While I did realize you could not delete your own threads, I did not realize you could not edit your own posts. I tried to edit a post I made a week or two ago because I said something incorrect in it, and to my dismay, I can't edit it...! This really suxs. While I can understand not allowing people to delete threads they've started because other people have written in it, I do not understand the disallowing of people editing their own posts beyond the 24 hour period.

This policy will probably cause me to substantially reduce the number of posts I make for fear of saying something wrong that I will be very embarrassed and regret saying for eternity. God knows I already regret stuff I've said online elsewhere that I don't want to make the mistake again.

I already am embarrassed partially by how I phrased my thoughts from that one post I wanted to edit. In fact, I actually tried to edit right after I posted it, and thought I did edit it. But now I see that it wasn't edited and remains the way I had phrased it originally.

This policy especially puzzles me concerning this is a personal growth oriented website where people reveal personal stuff that they may later realize was not wise at all.

[Brutha]

As already said on our Mod board I think that people should have a right to edit their own posts, even after 24 hours are passed.

For the issue of people requesting mass deletion of posts, I'd say it should be policy to turn them down outright. That's simply irresponsible on the poster's part and it shouldn't be the forum owner's responsibility to cater to their carelessness. Deletion requests should identify a reasonable (read: small) number of specific posts.

It doesn't take that long to delete all posts of a member in this forum software. Sure it would take a while to get all of Shamou posts removed but the amount of members with that many posts is limited. I think you need around 12 mouseclicks for someone with 100 posts.

I think that threads that already have a lot of replies should be removed by request. The value of a thread that is deep in the archieves is pretty limited compared to the damage a thread can do to the person who shared private information.

We could also delete the text in the post made by the user and replace it with Deleted by user request.

As far as workload goes I have no problem doing this a few times a month. We should generally find a solution that forum related manners that don't have to be done by Steve land somewhere where the first Mod that has some free time at hand can deal with them.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by seeker5

I do not understand the disallowing of people editing their own posts beyond the 24 hour period.

This policy will probably cause me to substantially reduce the number of posts I make for fear of saying something wrong that I will be very embarrassed and regret saying for eternity.

You can always write another post in that particular thread to explain yourself and give reference (post number) to which post you are alluding to...

If someone in particular should see that correction, you can PM that member and tell him/her about it...
.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Shamou

You can always write another post in that particular thread to explain yourself and give reference (post number) to which post you are alluding to...

If someone in particular should see that correction, you can PM that member and tell him/her about it...
.

I wasn't refering to that, I was more refering to embarassing situation where I may have posted something and wouldn't want the world to know about it.

Furthermore, I'm posting under the assumption nobody in the real world knows who I am. But if that changes, then I'd want to have the ability to modify some of my own posts.