Subjective Reality

[Jim Freeman]

Hello everyone.. This is my very first post. I've been searching here for hours (and generally for years ) for some answers... hopefully you can help.

First of all, let me state that I totally agree with the Subjective Reality model as introduced by Steve. In fact, I did "study" this concept and today I find it perfectly compatible with ALL other visions and models that I sincerely believe in (Holographic Universe, Indian Maya, etc). However, what puzzles me most is the following:

If it's all a dream and I'm the only one conscious being there is (or consciousness, whatever), how come this is still true to each and every one of you?

Am I clear?

In other words, according to SR, this forum and you guys are all part of my dream/reality. Somehow, according to SR, I just created you, together with my avatar, in this game-like experience I call reality, or the world. Now, how come I, TOO, am a part of YOUR own game- or dream-like reality?

If someone had ever asked this question before please excuse me; I just didn't find it. If so, you may please only redirect me to the answers then provided. Thanks in advance.

[moonrambler]

Hi Jim, I'm not much into the subjective reality idea, but I wanted to say welcome to the forum! I hope you'll post your questions in Steve's subforum or the Intentional Manifestation forum, where you might get talking with members who are interested in the subject.

[Jim Freeman]

moonrambler, Thanks a lot. I do appreciate your reply and welcome.

Yes, you're right. By now I believe I should've asked this question somewhere else. But, you know, it's not that important anymore. I've been considering some answers and I guess I've already reached a good one thanks to John Wheeler. This guy is simply amazing.

One more thing, this forum is the only circle/group I'm active in. Usually (I think) I'm too busy. But here I couldn't help it; the quality is so high I do think sometimes it's too good to be real. Not only the topics but also the people. You're so deep yet so simple. Frankly I'm impressed. Thanks everyone you made such a fantastic place for us. Please keep up.

[antara]

Hey Jim share the answer that you got to your question. It just made me curious. I feel somewhat uncomfortable thinking about this concept, but I feel there is something to it.

[Jim Freeman]

The answer is quite simple, but quite strange. This is the reason it’s hard to find--harder to live with. I’ll give it now to you mathematically, then philosophically. I only hope you fully understand Subjective Reality—although this is not exactly Subjective Reality. I rather think it’s the missing link between SR and the Vedanta. (Perhaps the only answer to my question by the way).

Mathematically:

If
My World = My Avatar + Your Avatar + Everything Else.
and
Your World = Your Avatar + My Avatar + Everything Else.

Then
My World = Your World

But if
My World = Your World

Then, by removing My and Your,

… World = … World = One World

So it’s “one world” we both live in, and this is the common mistake that created the whole Objective Reality model, or rather illusion. We removed the Variables (My and Your), not the Constant (World).


Now the Subjective Reality model:

If
My World = My Avatar + Your Avatar + Everything Else.
and
Your World = Your Avatar + My Avatar + Everything Else.

Then
My World = Your World

But if
My World = Your World

Then, by removing the mutual Constant (World)

My … = Your …
i.e. Mine = Yours

But if
Mine = Yours

Then
I = You

So it’s One Being, One Consciousness, not One World.

Got it?


This, of course, is just fun, not real mathematics. It's true though. However, let’s now try the philosophical approach.
____________________________________________

My original question is:

"If it's all a dream and I'm the only one conscious being there is (or consciousness, whatever), how come this is still true to each and every one of you?"

Now who asked this question?

The real self, the player, or the avatar?

Obviously the avatar.

From the avatar’s view, there are You and I, separate.

So the original question first derived from this very illusion of separateness.

In other words: Because the avatar first believes there are You vs. I, he or she wonders whose game/dream/reality it is—yours, or mine? He or she also wonders how come we both share the same dream although we both are real players?

This is the avatar’s view and these all are an avatar’s questions, based on his or her false view of separateness.

But, from the real self or real player’s view, the very notion of separate I vs. You isn’t there. There is no such thing as I and You. There is only one being, one mind, and one consciousness. So the real self or player is one, and “he” is, yes, You, at the same time I as well, and just everyone else.

Yes, it’s that simple.

[antara]

It sounds so simple after your explanation Jim, it makes me believe I almost got it
The mathematical explanation was great! But during the process of deriving the equation we removed the constant that is world assuming that world on both the sides of the equation is the same.
I hope this is true in reality, the possibility of this not being true is what makes me feel a little bit creepy. But I think I need not worry about that because if I = you then our worlds should also be the same, right!
In that case objective reality = subjective reality because there is only one subject that is me.
But one question... What do you mean by the link between Subjective reality and Vedanta?

[kamalkat]

Originally Posted by Jim Freeman

Hello everyone.. This is my very first post. I've been searching here for hours (and generally for years ) for some answers... hopefully you can help.

First of all, let me state that I totally agree with the Subjective Reality model as introduced by Steve. In fact, I did "study" this concept and today I find it perfectly compatible with ALL other visions and models that I sincerely believe in (Holographic Universe, Indian Maya, etc). However, what puzzles me most is the following:

If it's all a dream and I'm the only one conscious being there is (or consciousness, whatever), how come this is still true to each and every one of you?In other words, according to SR, this forum and you guys are all part of my dream/reality. Somehow, according to SR, I just created you, together with my avatar, in this game-like experience I call reality, or the world. Now, how come I, TOO, am a part of YOUR own game- or dream-like reality?

If someone had ever asked this question before please excuse me; I just didn't find it. If so, you may please only redirect me to the answers then provided. Thanks in advance.

Am I clear?


It is at the end of the day is philosophy to help you have a perspective but really good one.Look You exist and that is why you have all the problems you die all the problems die with you.As long as you live you give value to each and everyone who comes across you and that is entirely your business, for example you are entitled to call Einstien a great being or a rogue because of hiroshima nagasaki events or because you dont like his moustaches it does not matter to the world but it does matter to you.
If on balance you generally give values to persons and events and anything which is close to the TRUTH you will be a happier and contented person or else a unhappy and discontented person.
Now what is TRUTH. Truth are those facts which are true and you can experience the merrit in those truths with this your own body with which you are blessed.
Now coming to your question How come you are part of our game. You are not part of our game.The moment you say "How come I am part of your game?" you have surrendered your ownership of us.You have to see from your subjective angle and not care that there are other being s like you who have there world similar to you.You dont do that,You simply see from your subjective angle then all of us are mere bundle of energy affecting you and your task is how to fit yourself in this world in such a way that you are a contended person and happy one.
I only hope I have helped you a bit by dissipating my energy.If I have confused you more I am sorry.

[Jim Freeman]

... during the process of deriving the equation we removed the constant that is world assuming that world on both the sides of the equation is the same. I hope this is true in reality, the possibility of this not being true is what makes me feel a little bit creepy. But I think I need not worry about that because if I = you then our worlds should also be the same, right!

Yes, the world is the same. By the world here I mean this common world of ours: The Milky Way, planet earth, 7 continents, 170+ countries, 6.8+ billion people, etc. This is our common world, isn’t it?

(I understand your suspicions though. I personally met 3 members in these forums who definitely came from Pluto. )

In that case objective reality = subjective reality because there is only one subject that is me.

This is very subtle—and very smart of you!

What do you mean by the link between Subjective reality and Vedanta?

The link was that question itself, the commonality of illusion—a core concept in both Subjective Reality and the Vedanta (especially Advaita Vedanta school). The two models are very similar as far as I can tell.

SR seems like a re-structure, or a different presentation. It’s more western-minded, and very simple in comparison—hence more popular. John Wheeler, and others, tried to bring this philosophy closer to the west, but their works, albeit relatively successful, came with the Indian flavor and were still too Hindu to fit.

One more difference between SR and the Vedanta—and this is very original of Steve indeed, hopefully he could succeed with it—is the following:

The Vedanta philosophers, also prominent masters like Sri Ramana for example, got very busy answering how one may get rid of this illusion (the avatar)—thus get finally in touch with his higher Self, God, or Brahman.

SR, on the contrary, by means of the Law of Attraction and such ideas and techniques, suggests that the avatars, still in the illusion of reality, may just change, recreate and play with it. Aware of their world’s subjectivity, avatars may also be able, hopefully, to stay de-attached and finally live, still in the illusion, the life of their dreams.

Of course this, to a Sri Ramana, is just impossible—needless to say.

[Jim Freeman]

... I only hope I have helped you a bit by dissipating my energy...

kamalkat: Am so grateful. Thank you. I wholeheartedly embrace your energy.

Yes, of course, that was helpful. Though (I think) I have recently reached some answers, I always keep making sure of them. So I do appreciate each and every contribution. Thank you so much.

.

[antara]

Thank you Jim for sharing about SR and Vendanta, I dont have much knowledge about philosophy. When I saw the movie Matrix I felt good and ere both, later I felt our life may be similar to that shown in the movie, now I have a belief that what we think impossible can actually be possible if we believe it.
And thanks to Kamalkat, your explanation was simple too.