16 wack-jobs in the Michigan legislature

[Matthew Shea]

I'm absolutely indignant at reading this. A bill was just introduced in Michigan to allow teachers to carry guns. Huh? This isn't just one representative, either. He's got 15 other people supporting him! Has our society really come to this? Why aren't we fixing the problems that CAUSE the violence in the first place. What a HORRIBLE statement this makes about our society.

</rant>

[seeker5]

Good, I'm glad to see them considering arming teachers, and I wished they did the same with pilots. I feel safer in places where responsible people have guns, then in places where guns are all banned. In places where guns are banned, it just takes one bad guy to come in with a gun and he's got the power to kill at will. When you've got good people with guns, then the bad guy loses his power to kill at will. It's no coincidence that the biggest mass killing tends to happen where guns are illegal. Thanks for the good news .

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

That, sir, is disgusting. This is coming from someone who lives in Texas...we do love our guns, but come on!

[Matthew Shea]

Just to clarify my intentions, I definitely want to hear both sides of this as much as I have no idea why a well-intentioned person would consider such a thing. Seeker's post helps with my understanding and so is valuable.

[Dharma]

I disagree with the law in that it should not limit to teachers. The law should be written that anyone who can legally carry can carry on school grounds. (err, the way it used to be a long time ago before all gun people were bad).

[Dan.Linehan]

Non-lethals are better..

Why can't the teachers carry Bear Spray?

I can't see a gun really being needed to *prevent* violence.

[Dan.Linehan]

That being said, I don't exactly disagree with Dharma or Seeker.

Matt, when you say we should get to the root cause of the violence, how do you mean exactly? No one seems to know what the root causes are.

I saw Bowling for Columbine a few years back, and left the movie with no clear idea of why our culture was so much more violent than Canada's, it just was, for no apparent reason.

/Probably has something to do with not enough kids being vegan.
//Just kidding..

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

/Probably has something to do with not enough kids being vegan.
//Just kidding..

You joke, but remember in Supersize Me when they changed the diets of all those alternative school kids from the standard school lunch to a freshly prepared veg (I think) diet and removed soda vending machines? The teachers raved about how much better behaved and focused the students were. Probably not the solution to all the problems, but still.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

The teachers raved about how much better behaved and focused the students were. Probably not the solution to all the problems, but still.

Treat kids like you want 'em to be healthy, they'll probably act a lot healthier..

[llong]

The security at Virginia Tech didn't do much so maybe armed teachers would have prevented it.

[Matthew Shea]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Matt, when you say we should get to the root cause of the violence, how do you mean exactly? No one seems to know what the root causes are.

I see the root causes as being some of the more obvious problems in our society: poverty, lack of respect for education, absence of good role models for young kids, too many kids left unsupervised, a common-but-subtle paranoia seen in certain parts of society, i.e. the "man" is keeping me down. I don't think there are any big secrets here. There are a lot of very basic problems that could be much better addressed if we collectively put our minds to it. Address those and violence will naturally go way down.

/Probably has something to do with not enough kids being vegan.
//Just kidding..

Vegan or not, nutrition is a big problem. Too many refined starches and sugars. Whole foods and higher quality sources of protein, carbs and vitamins would certainly solve a lot of problems, obesity and health care costs being some of the biggest ones.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

I see the root causes as being some of the more obvious problems in our society: poverty, lack of respect for education, absence of good role models for young kids, too many kids left unsupervised, a common-but-subtle paranoia seen in certain parts of society, i.e. the "man" is keeping me down. I don't think there are any big secrets here. There are a lot of very basic problems that could be much better addressed if we collectively put our minds to it. Address those and violence will naturally go way down.

My issue (as of late) is that I'm not exactly sure its paranoia. I think there genuinely is class warfare taking place in the US, and what we are seeing are more and more violent manifestations from that.

See what you think of this clip: Ron Paul on the Federal Reserve

Not to espouse all of Ron's views, but financially, the guy is a wizard. I think there is a lot of truth to what he says around 2:10, about the declining purchasing power of our dollar and the insidious ways money is funneled away from the lower and middle classes to the rich.

Then we feign such surprise when the oppressed act out..

[Matthew Shea]

He makes a lot of very good points and I don't disagree with anything he says. In response to the question of class warfare, though, I'd say that all the necessary tools to keep up with the changes Ron Paul refers to are available in this country to those who wish to use them. The people who are the most successful are those who take full advantage of those tools (education, freedom of press, freedom of speech, etc) and who know how to market themselves and how to be persistent enough to get what they want. Being successful takes drive for certain, but there's no reason every person in this country or even the world should lack the drive to keep up with this changing world, stand up for themselves when necessary and keep pushing to improve their standard of living.

If there is a class war going on (I won't make that judgment here) it's only because enough people have fallen far enough behind that they see no way out other than to rebel against the system that they feel is keeping them down. A different mindset, however, might allow them to take advantage of that same system to pull themselves up to a much better station in life.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

Why aren't we fixing the problems that CAUSE the violence in the first place. What a HORRIBLE statement this makes about our society.</rant>

To see the cause of the violence I'd have to look at myself, the incidents, and the people involved AND see them as reflections of myself. I don't pay attention enough to the details of school shootings to know what was in the mind of the people committing the crimes.
So I have:
schools - where I go to learn
all the perps are male - the masculine principle
violence - pressurization, i'm not the creator of my experience, i got no options

So without getting into the psychology of the people involved, this is what I get:
In the place inside myself where I bring knowledge to my mind, I get very pressurized by the structure I have created there and I feel I have no way to express what is inside myself. I'm creating the only movement I can through violence because they haven't given me any other options.

And actually that might be the psychology of the perps involved.

So, I'm thinking the whole school thing, the structure, has to end or these kids are going to blow it up. The soul isn't sitting well in the mental box we've given it for the last 100 years. It's pressurizing and it wants to move differently. But our structured, standardized system allows no movement except for what is in the system.

[JMan]

I agree that while there are those with ill intent who are armed, there ought to be those who are responsible citizens who are armed. A perp in a school, a subway, on a bus, in an office building who doesn't know who's armed and who's not is less likely to feel confident in having the upper hand.

I also agree that it is sad that our society is like this. But it's not just relegated to our 'modern' society - bad guys with bad intentions with weapons to carry out their ways have been part of all of human history. The only thing that's changed is the weapon. 500 years ago it was the dagger in the back.

I don't have a gun at home. My wife doesn't want one. We live in a major metropolitan area. There is crime. There are break-ins. There are shootings. This is a topic of serious consideration between my wife and myself - my position is, 'what if' someone breaks in on us, wants to do things, bad things, and we bring a ginsu to a smith & wesson showdown. Her position is 'I don't want a gun'. As awful of a thought as that may be, it could happen. I don't dwell on it, but it's a possiblity.

I guess you have to ask yourself, if the barrel is pointed at you, what do you do? What do you wish you were prepared to do? Should you be prepared to do it? Are you at peace enough with your beliefs to let whatever happens, happen? Or do you fight back and protect yourself? Can your logic overide your instinct?