Am I the only one..

[coollikeme]

Who thinks that global warming is bull****. There is not one theory that has proved, to me, there is global warming. The world is going to change over time. Remember the dinosaurs, there was no gas and oil back then. We have progressed to the point where we are now. Hopefully we will progress to the next level that life has to show for us. I believe we are wasting money on global warming. For something that no one is really positive about. I am positive there are starving people in the world. If we took the money we are wasting on global warming, and feed the hungry. We would be a lot better off. We know for a fact there are starving people, we don't really know about global warming. The world is going to change no matter what we do. If we didn't use one more drop of oil. Someone will come up with another theory why we are destroying the world.

I did watch al gore's movie on global warming before someone suggest that I do. There is nothing I saw in the movie that convince me. I see the ice caps are melting on mars. No gas our oil up there. I realize if government is getting in on it. It is because they want the money, they know they are going to get from taxes. I do not trust the government with my money. They waste enough as it is, and if you think the governments going to use the money for global warming . Not to sound mean but you are living in fantasy land. Help starving people now. don't worry about something you will never know. The world seems to find away to adjust to change and we will again. You don't have to like what I wrote, and I don't expect every one to agree with me. I will tell you this there are some, scientist that have statistic that say there is global warming, but for everyone that does, there is another one that says there is not any proof that there is global warming. You must only read part of the story, and if you agree with global warming thats ok. The people doing this work are in unanimous agreement that global warming is not true. I watch and read as many theories against global warming, I guess you see it the way you want to see it. Pollution in are air has nothing to do with the weather and nobody can predict, the weather or the change of climate and I mean nobody. I can prove there are starving people in the world. I can show you millions of pictures from around the world of starving and impoverished people. Maybe if we feed the hungry and help the poor one of them may be smart enough to solve the pollution problems we have.

Also maybe we can figure out how to use the power of oil, gas ,coal and nuclear power to are advantage with no pollution. I don't know about you but, I like progress I would like to see the age of the Jetsons and not go back to horse and buggies. People that believe in global warming are slowing down progress, with a theories that nobody really is sure about. I do agree with you on one thing. Which is what makes you think government is going to help the poor and the hungry, you do see signs of it in some cases. Hope you like high gas prices global warming theories screwed that up too. I have a lot more to say hopefully we get to talk again, but listen to both sides of the story not just one. One more thing Gore film also shows, is New York and New Jersey being buried under water. If this is not bullshit then I don't know what is. Even if the ice caps did melt, it would not happen all at once, it would happen gradually. That is just plain common sense. Have a good day.

[jwz]

lol. yer.
The bad effects of CO2 in our atmosphere is actually proven as far as I know.
And you should try to come here where I live to experience the global warming for your self.

(it's known that the effects are much more visible on the poles)

You are right that the ice won't just melt suddenly, but after MANY decades of stability, the ice around where I live has become very strange in the past very few years. It almost seems like a 3-year surprise change. lol.

The fiord close to my city is now pretty much surrounded by small icechunks, instead of the occasional very large iceberg as it used to. That is because that it is too warm, and the ice in the glaciers are melting and crushing into much smaller pieces and therefore can't hold on to the ice as they could before.

These are just a few of many many things noticable up here where the action happens.

I hope that my writing is understandable, I am not native english-speaking.

-Jan

[jwz]

p.s. Just because you can't see it for yourself, doesn't mean that its not there.

The CO2 let out in the air doesn't escape the atmosphere. It becomes a 'shield' which prevents radiation (heat) from 'reflecting' out of our atmosphere again. Just like in a glasshouse.

-Jan

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by coollikeme

Even if the ice caps did melt, it would not happen all at once, it would happen gradually. That is just plain common sense. Have a good day.

So, according to you it's OK if the ice caps only melt in the next twenty years...

.

[coollikeme]

I don't think they will melt, in 20 years or in 1000 years , it is something that no one can prove. There was one time in history were there was very little ice, and we are still here, and the polar bears survive during that time. So I believe I won't be swimming in New Jersey anytime soon.( hehe).

[Andrew Brunelle]

There are many glaciers that disappeared in the Arctic circle in the last ten years, so how can you say it will be gradual? It will be much faster than you think, at least the way I see it. Maybe thirty years tops before the ice caps are fully melted and we no longer have the world we have grown to love. Take initiative to save the planet, or at least try to save it, while we still can. I fear it is already too late.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by coollikeme

I don't think they will melt, in 20 years or in 1000 years , it is something that no one can prove. There was one time in history were there was very little ice, and we are still here, and the polar bears survive during that time. So I believe I won't be swimming in New Jersey anytime soon.( hehe).

Read this...

I would not swim in New Jersey either... I hear that the water is too polluted...

.

[coollikeme]

in the southern part of the state. It is better than Canada's beaches..

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by coollikeme

in the southern part of the state. It is better than Canada's beaches..

Any proofs... or just something else you dreamed up...???

.

[coollikeme]

You made the bad comment first, not I. Maybe you are the dreamer.

[Jugga J]

Originally Posted by coollikeme

Who thinks that global warming is bull****.

No, I don't think Global Warming is Bullshit. And Neither do you. Global Warming is happening. What you believe is bullshit is that the entire 'Global Warming is man-made' drama is Bullshit. The World's climate changes over time, that is true. There were many times in the earth's history when there was 2 x, 4x, or even 10x the amount of C02 we have today, but the whole world didn't come to a grinding crunch because of it.

Al Gor's movies stresses that there are lots of links between C02 and the Global Temperature change. He showed us the correlation that when C02 went up, the temperature also went up. He said this correlation was 'complex'. Yet he didn't tell anybody about them complications. The important complication was that C02 follows temperature change it doesn't cause temperature change. C02 actually lags behind Temperature change by about 300 years, the temperature causes the change in C02.

The bad effects of CO2 in our atmosphere is actually proven as far as I know.

jwz, your making out C02 is a pollutant dear. It's Not .

So then you may ask what causes the temperature change? The Sun. Look at the direct correlation between sun spot activity and temperature change. ('Sun spots' - These are spots of Intense heat on the surface.) During the 'Little Ice Age' There was few 'Sun Spots' visible by astronomers on the surface of the Sun. Vice Versa during the 'Medevil Warm Period' There were a huge amount of Sun Spots. In fact the temperature in England was so high, they could actually grow vineyards.

So How Does the Temperature cause a change in C02? First you have to look at the Outputs of many C02 producers. We Have:

-Humans (6-8 gigatones)
-Volcanoes (40 gigatones)
-Dead Organisms decomposed (100 gigatones)
-The Ocean (300 gigatones during High Sun spot Activity)

The Ocean, (when temperature drops due to low sun spot activity) contracts and takes in C02, When High solar activity, it gives out C02.

But why the Lag of 300 years? Just look at the size and depth of the Ocean???!!!

The Ice caps naturally contract and expand, even if it looks unnatural to native person it doesn't mean it is! Climate change is so slow that it takes time. So I doubt someone in Greenland would have seen this amount of Ice Breaking off before because its not happened before in there life time! Also some experts say if you viewed the ice caps throughout the entire of earths history but didn't know anything about 'man made global warming' then what you would observe would be absolutely nothing. Nothing unnatural would be occurring there.

Also the Ice Caps melting will certainly not cause a GLOBAL change in the Ocean level. It will make hardly an ounce of difference. It may cause local change. But this local change is more to do with the land level changing rather than the sea level changing.

Also this '2500' of the World's 'Top Scientists' is known as the 'IPCC' which was basically a institution set up to get the miners out of work. So hence they stated all the Global Warming stuff and it become more of a propaganda movement than anything else. There are quite a number of Non-Scientist in the institution. In the bibliographies many of them are reviewers, government folk, etc. Many Leading experts in their field who don't agree with the Polemic, and resign, are still put on the author list, some have to have legal cases to get them to take their names off.

The reason....Global Warming is now a whole industry in itself, If there is a huge world problem then there are going to be governmental people who are going to chuck money at the industry to solve it. And henceforth it will mean an awful lot of people out of work if this whole drama collapses. And so unfortunatly it has become a propaganda movement to silence anybody who doesn't agree with the polemic.

Hope that answers everyone's question.

As much as I can do at midnight before an exam the following day.

Source: The Great Global Warming Swindle.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Jugga J

Hope that answers everyone's question.
Source: The Great Global Warming Swindle.

I certainly do not have the facts or the expertise to dispute your claim... but when I checked your source, here is what it said,

"According to a group of scientists brought together by documentary-maker Martin Durkin, if the planet is heating up, it isn't your fault and there's nothing you can do about it."

According to a group of scientists...??? Does not seem too reliable a source to me...

.

[Jugga J]

Originally Posted by Shamou

I certainly do not have the facts or the expertise to dispute your claim... but when I checked your source, here is what it said,

"According to a group of scientists brought together by documentary-maker Martin Durkin, if the planet is heating up, it isn't your fault and there's nothing you can do about it."

According to a group of scientists...??? Does not seem too reliable a source to me...

.

actually no...there are all leading professors in their field, thats what strike me, many others actually agree but are silenced effectively by certain threats within the wider community and sometimes within their own universities. Couple from around the places... I'll send you the link. here.

[Jugga J]

also don't really question me on this one. I'm not stating thats my view, I'm just saying it as a counter argument. Appears interesting

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Jugga J

also don't really question me on this one. I'm not stating thats my view, I'm just saying it as a counter argument. Appears interesting

Still... since you obviously have above average information on the subject and the fact that you also have a good education... it would be interesting to have "your" views on the subject... I know I would...

.

[infinitethoughts]

To anyone being duped by the social engineering being done by vested interests, (oil, automobile, corporations) here's a time line chart showing the destructive atmospheric pollution by them.

(I'm kinda surprised I even have to point this out on this NG. You people know what happens if you sit in a closed garage with a car idling....right ?? )





Here's a laughable commercial directed at all the gullible by the Competitive Enterprise Institute who by the way is funded in part by Texaco, and Ford Motor Co and is closely being watched by Sourcewatch.

You wanna see something sick and twisted watch it.
"Carbon dioxide: they call it pollution; we call it life"
YouTube - Global Warming - "Energy"

[Jugga J]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Still... since you obviously have above average information on the subject and the fact that you also have a good education... it would be interesting to have "your" views on the subject... I know I would...

.

Speaking of education....and seeing your from Canada, I was thinking of applying to Toronto and McGill (I think it was) as a freshman applicant in the 2009 year, as they appear to be the top universities in Canada. Sham, how hard are these universities to get into by any chance? Are they as hard as Oxford and Cambridge are over in England here because while I attain high grades. I'm not quite a straight A grade student. Whats you opinion of the Canadian Education system?

Originally Posted by Shamou

S it would be interesting to have "your" views on the subject... I know I would...

.

After watching the documentary about 'This Swindle' it appears there are a few things that are apparent, firstly the way the models and graphs fits together is highly dubious. Different data from external sources doesn't tend to fit quite as well as it does in the documentary. Secondly what they comment on about the IPCC appears to be correct, many of them are non-scientists and don't have an ounce of experience in the field and were only attracted to the field due to the money it brings. However some of the scientists on the documentary that present the case 'that man made C02 production shouldn't be the cause for concern' don't actually have viable histories themselves. The only with creditable standing and history in my mind are: Carl Wunsch (Oceanography - MIT) Richard Lindzen (Meteorology - MIT) Patrick Moore (Co-founder Greenpeace) Nigel Calder (Former New Scientist editor) Paul Reiter (medical entomology - Pasteur Institute) as well as some bloke from the Arctic Research centre but his name eludes me at present .
Which isn't a huge amount compared to how many were interviewed. It's also worth noting that 'Carl Wunsch, professor of oceanography at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, was also interviewed but has since said that he strongly disagrees with the film's conclusions and the way his interview material was used.'

While the documentary stresses that we are not the cause, it is wrong or naive of us to think we have no effect on the environment or that we are the only thing that affects the environment.

The documentary is trying to divulge that we are not responsible for the C02 we produce, I feel that this is the wrong approach as to the average brain dead person on this planet, they are going to take this as 'It simply doesn't matter'. While the IPCC reports are completely the opposite, basically what they say is that if you leave the light on while unused, your going to cause an ice break the size of Wales.

It's trying to find the middle ground between two extreme views, It's certainly not as bad as the IPCC makes out, but not as good as the documentary states.

All you can do is form your own opinions, act accordingly and ignore the journalism as they really do throw a load of propaganda at you.

'Ah but now it's much much worse; there's going to be 10 feet of sea level rise by next Tuesday' - Nigel Calder (Former New Scientist editor) - Sums it up

[Jugga J]

Originally Posted by infinitethoughts

here's a time line chart showing the destructive atmospheric pollution by them.

I think your confused, we're talking about C02 which makes a natural part of the greenhouse not pollutants! e.g. Sulphur Dioxide. Without it you'd be dead for a number of reasons.

Note: I'm not advocating issues like deforestation and pollution here!

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Jugga J

Speaking of education....and seeing your from Canada, I was thinking of applying to Toronto and McGill (I think it was) as a freshman applicant in the 2009 year, as they appear to be the top universities in Canada. Sham, how hard are these universities to get into by any chance? Are they as hard as Oxford and Cambridge are over in England here because while I attain high grades. I'm not quite a straight A grade student. Whats you opinion of the Canadian Education system?

My son is a graduate of McGill (he also has Masters from Bishops University, University of British Columbia, University of New York and Harvard) and if you compare the entrance requirements at Harvard (which could be the equivalent of Oxford and Cambridge) there is absolutely no comparison...

McGill has an excellent reputation throughout the world... I don't know anything about the University of Toronto though...

But, if I were you, I would chose McGill because you would also have the advantage of living in Montreal with its French heritage and culture...

I am a graduate of Palmer College in the US... and the student body were from all over the world and I found it to be an excellent learning opportunity...

I also would like to thank you for your views on global warming... quite balanced and as logical as could be for such a complex topic...

.

[Jugga J]

If it has comparatives with Oxford + Cambridge/Ivy League then I honestly don't think I have a chance of getting in. I have ambition but I must not get deluded to what University I can be admitted too.

Your son sounds like quite the Student! What does he study ?

I also would like to thank you for your views on global warming... quite balanced and as logical as could be for such a complex topic...

Pleasure

[infinitethoughts]

Originally Posted by Jugga J

I think your confused, we're talking about C02 which makes a natural part of the greenhouse not pollutants! e.g. Sulphur Dioxide. Without it you'd be dead for a number of reasons.

No confusion, Jugga.
CO2 in balance is helpful. Too much, and it's problamatic.

It's all part of tailpipe emissions.

Tailpipe emissions: This is what most people think of when they think of vehicle air pollution; the products of burning fuel in the vehicle's engine, emitted from the vehicle's exhaust system. The major pollutants emitted include:

1. Hydrocarbons: this class is made up of unburned or partially burned fuel, and is a major contributor to urban smog, as well as being toxic. They can cause liver damage and even cancer.
2. Nitrogen oxides (NOx): These are generated when nitrogen in the air reacts with oxygen under the high temperature and pressure conditions inside the engine. NOx emissions contribute to both smog and acid rain.
3. Carbon monoxide (CO): a product of incomplete combustion, carbon monoxide reduces the blood's ability to carry oxygen and is dangerous to people with heart disease.
4. Carbon dioxide (CO2): although this is a product of the complete combustion of hydrocarbons, is plentiful in the atmosphere, has no immediate harmful effects to humans and is essential to plant life, emissions of carbon dioxide are considered a pollutant because it is a significant greenhouse gas and increasing its levels in the atmosphere contributes to global climate change.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Jugga J

If it has comparatives with Oxford + Cambridge/Ivy League then I honestly don't think I have a chance of getting in. I have ambition but I must not get deluded to what University I can be admitted too.

Your son sounds like quite the Student! What does he study ?

Pleasure

I don't think that McGill is extremely hard to get in...

My son is what you could call a "professional student" it's his passion... his Master were in computer technology, English and at Harvard it was in "Technology of Education"...

He now has a managerial post in an exclusive school for very rich people in the US... Culver College...

.

[Jugga J]

Are there any other high valued universities in Canada? I'll have a look at both anyhow.

[coleflowers]

Who is still worried about global warming? I though Al Gore, Sheryl Crow and Leo Di Caprio were working on that so I don't have to. (Just kidding)

The only thing about global warming that is bullshit is the fact politicians and celebrities are using this as a soapbox to further their own motives and career/political gains.

Also, the dinosaurs were wiped out, and they weren't even polluting the planet. What makes us think we are so special that we won't get wiped out? And it won't even be from a meteor, it will be from our own stupidity.

I don't even think we really know what the last hundred years of pollution has done to our planet yet. The evidence of global warming we have so far is probably only a hint of what is to come if we continue to have little regaurd for our environment.

[Jugga J]

First Lets just get one thing straight, I'm not advocating emissions of hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide here through your important 'tailpipe' emissions. What I am saying is CO2 is not a pollutant.

'emissions of carbon dioxide are considered a pollutant because it is a significant greenhouse gas and increasing its levels in the atmosphere contributes to global climate change.'

Firstly. Let me nit-pick first. Significant? You haven't looked at the basic facts. What I call is significant is the water vapor in the atmosphere. Water Vapor 'is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas and accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, between 36% and 90%' Carbon Dioxide makes up 9-26%, you must then take into account all the different forms - Volcanoes, Decaying Organisms, Ocean contraction and expansion due to temperature change. Then you must take the human produced Carbon Dioxide, which is the focus of all the concern, and its .054% of the greenhouse gases.

Secondly. Look at the definition of pollutant: Something that pollutes, a waste material that contaminates air, soil, or water. CO2 contaminating air? It is part of the air!!! ~ Bloody Oxford English dictionary. Always shoots themselves in the foot!

Thirdly. Global Warming? Is it a bad thing? Or is it not? My opinion is that it's not a problem and the world will naturally begin to cool. When, depends on the activity of the Sun in the past. Your opinion is that it's a bad thing. So to you CO2 is a pollutant, to me it isn't. What right do you have to call me a polluter and a Pollutant. That brings me on to my fourth point.

Fourth. Carbon makes for the diversity of life, if we didn't have it. Then we and the planet wouldn't exist, so god praise Carbon Dioxide. Also water vapor is a greenhouse gas that effects the environment. So you are calling yourself a polluter and a pollutant. Basically you should be in Greenpeace. Human Scum!

Fifth. I had another point but I can't remember.

[Scin]

I think I need to ask the most obvious question:

Why is such a serious, dark topic in the Fun & Recreation forum?

[Jugga J]

I don't think there's actually anywhere else to put it

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Scin

I think I need to ask the most obvious question:

Why is such a serious, dark topic in the Fun & Recreation forum?

Jugga J did not put this thread in the Fun & Recreation forum... coollikeme did...

.

[coollikeme]

I Put it. No smart comments anyone lol. This seemed like a miscelleous area so why not.

[Stu]

Debating global warming is so silly to me, or debating the cause at least. I dont think anyone is denying that the planet is getting warmer correct? Its pretty obvious that it is. And the vast majority of scientists predict that, whatever the cause is, its going to keep getting warmer for awhile, so warm in fact that significant numbers of people will start to die because of it.

So does it really matter whether humans are doing it or not? It seems like common sense that we have a vested interest in stopping the warming, so that we dont start dying. To this end we should be doing what we can to fight the warming, and there are plenty of resources out there on what individuals can do to reduce their contribution to the problem.