Goodbye

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Also, I wasn't the one who used the word "harassment" Ssandra did though.

All I said was that I didn't appreciate the comments he made and I felt uncomfortable. If he is allowed his neanderthal expressions than I am also allowed mine.

Just to be clear... what I said was:

Originally Posted by ssandra

Blacko, watch the line between compliments / flirting and harassment. You are walking it.

Maybe because you are not used to it or maybe because English isn't your first language (it isn't right?) but this comment is a bit rude...

I wasn't saying that he was harassing you or anyone else, I was saying that he was being a bit too rude for what we see as playing around here.

I'm very sorry that he left over this (if it was over this, who knows...) because I enjoyed most of his comments around here and the threads that he started were a huge success.

I am not one to be offended by anyones posts, because I know it doesn't mean anything about me whatever someone else says. But, as in every social group, there is a certain dynamic that people feel comfortable with. Very crude remarks do not fit in this dynamic in this group. That's all that I was trying to point out. Doesn't mean Blacko is wrong for making those comments, doesn't mean Elucidate is wrong for not liking those comments.

Just a mismatch in these comments and this group. That's all.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Lucidism

Hmmm. Ya know, I've been a member of dozens of forums since 2002, across all sorts of topics. This is the only one where I've ever seen multiple women claim harassment from other members. Why is this? I see some walking on eggshells.

I can see that as well... I don't know.

Maybe because some people here (NOT meaning anyone in particular) are just starting to gain some personal power back.

I remember that when I was at that point, I also saw harassment almost everywhere. That I stood up for myself "against" comments that were (in hindsight) completely innocent. But I had to go over the line, to learn where the line is.

(The line between accepting and not caring about innocent comments and standing up for yourself when others are saying things that you perceive as harassment.)

Of course, now I'm almost completely turned around and whatever anyone says to me, I know not to take it personally, and if I do feel emotional and take it personal, I also know that that is something within me to solve, and has nothing to do with the other person.

[elucidate]

Lucidism: I NEVER claimed he was harassing me. Please read my posts before you jump to the same conclusion James did!

I said to him that his comments made me feel uncomfortable and that I wasn't impressed, and could he please stop saying stuff like how his "monster" penis was hanging out of his pants because it couldn't be contained anymore...and how did I taste? I think that's fair enough...he's a stranger to me.

If you think it's walking on eggshells, then that's your oppinion...but it's not one that I share.

[elucidate]

Just to be REALLY REALLY clear, since you all don't seem to get where I was coming from. Blacko's comments felt "unclean" to me. St33med said something sensual to me and I didn't take it personally, because it was clean...I can tell the difference. There was a slimy feeling to blackos comments that I didn't appreciate.

I wasn't offended, I just felt uncomfortable, and I expressed it. It's funny how I seem to be getting the criticism here for expressing my feelings and asking him firmly to stop it...and he is getting everyones sympathy even though Ssandra even admitted he was being innapropriate.

Why is that?

[AlmostGodess]

I think he will come back! With another identity maybe, but he will!

[elucidate]

You know what James, I consider you to be a pretty insightful person, MOST of the time...but I gotta say the last few times you've responded to anything I've posted, I've found your responses to be totally off the ballpark...and indicative of not even really reading what I wrote to start with.

No, I don't feel ashamed that you think I over-reacted. I don't think I did. I responded according to what I was feeling and to what I felt I needed to say by putting up boundaries...which I have every right to do. What I feel , is that you have invalidated my experience here, when you didn't even read what I wrote properly...and that kinda ticks me off!

I wasn't rude about it...I NEVER said he "harassed" me (that's another example of you not even reading my post and taking what someone else said and spinning it around on it's head making it out to be me)

Whatever blacko felt is his experience, I really don't know...all I know is that I felt very uncomfortable with the vibe of his comments and I said something about it. Maybe you just aren't very good at putting yourself in someone elses shoes?

It's his decision to stay or leave...I am indifferent to be honest.

Originally Posted by James81

I'm not taking anybody's side. If he were here, I'd be telling him that leaving the forums over this also seems like an overreaction. But alas, he is not here. He is gone. Forever.

blacko on his backo. *pours a little whiskey out*

The thing I don't think you're realizing is, the way either of you reacted isn't wrong. But is it working for either of you? blacko's bailed (how's that working blacko? lol), and now you're bailing (for a couple of days or whatever). You both probably feel pretty crappy and hurt or whatever it is you're feeling. Maybe blacko feels ashamed that you interpretted him as being "harassing"? Maybe you feel ashamed that I said it seemed like an overreaction?

And maybe, just maybe, nicbrahms should seend me some n00ds. My inbox awaits.

[Mounds]

I, for one, thought it was quite inappropriate. I don't think Blacko should now vanish forever since he's learned that those comments went too far.
Elucidate has the right to feel however she feels.

-Tim

[James81]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Blacko's comments felt "unclean" to me.

....

Why is that?

I'm not criticizing you. I'm wondering if you're willing to ask yourself that question.

Why did blacko's comments feel unclean to you? Fulling noting that they did not seem unclean to me. Recognizing that that doesn't make my opinion on his comments right, but, rather, hoping you'll see that two different people looked at those comments and saw two different things.

Meaning, I think there's an opportunity for personal growth and awareness for you here if you're willing to ask yourself that question and see where it takes you.

[elucidate]

I suppose it is hard for you to understand, seeing as you are male and not female, that most women don't appreciate being told by a virtual stranger that their "monster" penis is hanging out of their shorts because it can't be contained any longer. If you think that that is at all acceptable, then I think YOU're the one who needs to ask yourself why you find it to be no big deal?

I don't wish to analyze why it felt unclean to me...it just did. It felt unpleasant, like it wasn't coming from a very pleasant place...not a respectful place. It made me feel uncomfortable and I don't question my feelings...I go with them. They are usually a very trustworthy guide.

I can see that two different people saw it differently...so what?

Originally Posted by James81

I'm not criticizing you. I'm wondering if you're willing to ask yourself that question.

Why did blacko's comments feel unclean to you? Fulling noting that they did not seem unclean to me. Recognizing that that doesn't make my opinion on his comments right, but, rather, hoping you'll see that two different people looked at those comments and saw two different things.

Meaning, I think there's an opportunity for personal growth and awareness for you here if you're willing to ask yourself that question and see where it takes you.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Mounds

I, for one, thought it was quite inappropriate. I don't think Blacko should now vanish forever since he's learned that those comments went too far.
Elucidate has the right to feel however she feels.

-Tim

Ah...well it's so nice to know there are still SOME sane rational men in the world. Love you man...I knew I wasn't crazy

[AlmostGodess]

Even if it was not addressed to me, that "monster" penis stuff offended me too. I felt trapped. If I am participating in a discussion about sex and I am open about it, I still don't want anyone to point their monsters on me.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by James81

(Disclaimer: I am not harassing you in any way shape or form. I am also not stalking you or sitting outside your window right now touching myself while skittishly peering in your window. I also do not print out your picture and hang it on the ceiling above my bed or dream of you in all sorts of sexy situations. I am also not a creepster creepily making a disclaimer like this.)

Whew. Glad we cleared that one up.

(LMAO)

[James81]

Originally Posted by elucidate

their "monster" penis is hanging out of their shorts because it can't be contained any longer.

Bwahahahaha. I'm sorry, but that's just hilarious to me. If you were a guy, you'd probably laugh too.

Originally Posted by elucidate

If you think that that is at all acceptable, then I think YOU're the one who needs to ask yourself why you find it to be no big deal?

Probably because I'm a guy, and such a comment would not be perceived as a threat to me.

Originally Posted by elucidate

I don't wish to analyze why it felt unclean to me...

No learnings for you then!

Originally Posted by elucidate

I can see that two different people saw it differently...so what?

Well if two people see it differently, then that means that there is no one truth about it. Only perceptions. Perceptions that are generated internall by the people who perceive it.

Thus, the feeling of uncleaness is something YOU created, not blacko. Not me.

But you said you weren't willing to see that. Which is fine. This seems to be a recurring theme for you, though, no? I remember not too long ago you and PWL having a little out and out about something. No, it wasn't PWL saying inappropriate stuff to you, but you did get all huffy about it. This kinda reminds me of that. Like, wait, if you keep getting the same reactions from people, why wouldn't you realize that there is only one common denominator?

Ah well, this isn't helping I don't think. I imagine all I'm doing is inspiring anger with you in this post, which probably isn't real useful in growing. So why do I keep egging it on? Why do I keep responding? This thread has highlighted my ****-stirring nature. LOL

[James81]

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

I felt trapped.

Ouch. Blacko has brought out all sorts of gunk.

Unclean.

****-stirring.

And now "trapped."

[Angela]

Originally Posted by James81

Ouch. Blacko has brought out all sorts of gunk.

Unclean.

****-stirring.

And now "trapped."

He's like a truffle pig. Pointing out treasure! Not everyone wants to eat truffles, though. Some people think they're pretty yickky. I didn't start liking them until I actually tasted one; before that, I HATED them.

[elucidate]

No learnings for you then!

Actually I've learned plenty...just not what you think I NEED to learn.

Who died and made you the guru anyway? I didn't ask for your help here...I just wanted to clear up the fact that you keep accusing me of saying blacko "harassed" me...when I didn't ...which you don't seem to be able to acknowledge.

Well if two people see it differently, then that means that there is no one truth about it. Only perceptions. Perceptions that are generated internall by the people who perceive it.

I agree, I never claimed there was one truth. Blacko has his and I have mine.

Thus, the feeling of uncleaness is something YOU created, not blacko. Not me.

WHatever James. I felt what I felt...you can push all this stuff on me til your head pops...I wasn't the only one who found his comments innapropriate...so I think your outnumbered there buddy.

This seems to be a recurring theme for you, though, no?

I don't really see it as a recurring theme. Infact that situation with PWL was communicated respectfully by both of us I think. The topic was completely different to this one (again...not paying attention to what I actually wrote)

I remember not too long ago you and PWL having a little out and out about something. No, it was PWL saying inappropriate stuff to you, but you did get all huffy about it.

PWL said nothing innapropriate to me...it was a totally different issue. I think you have an issue with not reading what people write properly james!)

Ah well, this isn't helping I don't think. I imagine all I'm doing is inspiring anger with you in this post, which probably isn't real useful in growing. So why do I keep egging it on? Why do I keep responding? This thread has highlighted my ****-stirring nature. LOL

Well I think that's more accurate. You're not really interested in "helping me grow" as much as just ****-stirring...that's YOUR issue. If I'm frustrated it's due to your total LACK of reading my posts correctly, both this time, and with the other thread with PWL. If you can't even do me the courtesy of reading my posts before you throw all this crap at me, then I'm not gonna bother with you any more. I'm learning and growing at my own pace, thanks very much.

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by Angela

He's like a truffle pig. Pointing out treasure! Not everyone wants to eat truffles, though. Some people think they're pretty yickky. I didn't start liking them until I actually tasted one; before that, I HATED them.

Very nice metaphor!

[James81]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Well I think that's more accurate. You're not really interested in "helping me grow" as much as just ****-stirring...that's YOUR issue. If I'm frustrated it's due to your total LACK of reading my posts correctly, both this time, and with the other thread with PWL. If you can't even do me the courtesy of reading my posts before you throw all this crap at me, then I'm not gonna bother with you any more. I'm learning and growing at my own pace, thanks very much.

Well, I DID say back in the beginning of this thread somewhere that my opinions are really just litmuses of stuff going on in me, so it's not like I don't recognize that as my own issue.

And you're right, I'm actually not that interested in "helping you grow." I made a post about "helping people grow" up in AjaTrinidad's thread in Emotional Mastery and why I think that helping people grow is kinda, well, an ineffective way of looking at things (for me that is, at this point in my life...it could very easily change tomorrow, who knows?).

You know who I remind me of right now? themaster! LOL

Just throwing **** at the wall and hoping it'll stick.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by James81

You know who I remind me of right now? themaster! LOL
.

You got that right.

[James81]

Originally Posted by elucidate

You got that right.

I need to start italicizing and bolding and underlining more stuff though.

[Donkey1]

Inappropriateness? That's why he left? I assumed he did something illegal, and was going to jail or something.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by James81

I need to start italicizing and bolding and underlining more stuff though.

Maybe...but you definately have the annoying preachy stuff downpat.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by donkey1

inappropriateness? That's why he left? I assumed he did something illegal, and was going to jail or something.

lmao

[AlmostGodess]

When I first joined the forum I thought Themaster was Steve Pavlina I knew he wrote looong posts, but still.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

When I first joined the forum I thought Themaster was Steve Pavlina I knew he wrote looong posts, but still.

Gawd, don't let him see that. I'm sure he'd LOVE to be thought of as Steve Pavlina.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by rei

may the road rise up to meet you.

I *love* that phrase. Can I steal it?

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Again with the minimizing. So in other words, you took his side and made me out to be the one who had the problem instead of really seeing that what he said was totally innapropriate and I had every right to call him on it.

You're right, it does say plenty about you as well.

It didn't seem at all like he was minimizing you, to me.

Also, it seemed like James' first post wasn't even about you. He didn't even know what prompted blacko to leave, to begin with.

[James81]

Originally Posted by elucidate

lmao

Someone, PLEASE, turn off the setting that won't let you post all caps in a post.

PLEASE??? That irks the ever-loving bejesus out of me. LOL

You know what? I'll paypal someone $10 right now to click those couple of buttons that would require to make this happen.

My offer stands for 5 minutes. Clock is ticking.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

It didn't seem at all like he was minimizing you, to me.

Also, it seemed like James' first post wasn't even about you. He didn't even know what prompted blacko to leave, to begin with.

I think me and james have finished this little spat...if you don't mind I'd rather not continue it with you too. You are free to your oppinion of course.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by James81

I set the intention a few weeks back to have a big honkin' belly laugh that just sprung out of me. This thread inspired that for me today. Not because of any one person in particular, but for some odd reason after my last reply I went to lunch and in the car I was laughing until tears streamed out of my eyes.

I *love* that kind of laugh. That is awesome.