Derren Brown fans in here:

[Holistic Star]

Last night Derren Brown 'predicted' the BBC UK lottery results live on Channel 4.
video link here: YouTube - Derren Brown Predicts National Lottery Numbers The Event

lots of discussion online about how he did it. including technical discussions about camera angles / split screens etc going on. Miniature lazer printers, projection added after the effect etc. Lots of discussion about how the camera shake isn't real, and added on afterwards to hide the joining of live and static feeds etc.


However my favourite theories so far are:

"Occams razor principle applies... so can only be time travel."

"He's spent the last year training ants to dip their feet in ink and write the numbers on the balls by doing a little dance.
if you zoom in, you can see their tiny footprints."

"The solution is elegantly supplied by physics.
Since there are an infinite number of universes, the Derren Browns in each universe predicted different numbers. We just happen to live in the lucky one. There are alot of parallel universe C4 viewers out there who are very disappointed."

"If you watch closely at 5:43, you can see the moment when the frame is frozen long enough for Brown to invoke Satan. Afterwards, on the wall, behind the tv equipment, you can see the scorch marks, and on the floor what appear to be patches of blood, while Brown has the haunted look of a man who's just made an ill-judged pact."


so - how did he do it? Apparently he is explaining all on Friday - but I expect will be more misdirection rather than camera trickery admissions.

[ellie]

I love Darren.

He's an illusionist, so no magic here I'm afraid.


I reckon it had something to do with that cardboard paper that he had in his hand, as he was doing an awful lot with it at the begining, whist talking a lot at the same time to distract the viewer. He also had his hand over his mouth towards the end, so I feel like he was relaying something back to someone via a microphone. It was hard to see, as the quality was poor, but it did look like his mouth was moving, whilst he had his hand over his mouth.

I bet he will say something about, "there was no major trickery it was just was the hype around the story that made the viewer feel there was more to it, then there actually was".

[Holistic Star]

yes no magic - sadly - would be great though, wouldn't it

The balls do seem to move slightly while no-one is touching them (the end one pops up very slightly just after the numbers are announced) so probably the split screen projection is more likely.

I'm convinced he won't tell us how he really did it on Friday though - the explanation will be more misdirection and flimflam.

[ellie]

He usually does unveil his tricks. That's what I love about him. He explain how we can easily be conned

I think this is just a big ploy for people to visited his newly vamped website and blog.

Clever marketing indeed. It's the talk of the town this little stunt.

He he and I just read the trained ants comment. hilarious!

[Brutha]

He usually does unveil his tricks.

Often the explanation he gives isn't the way he does the trick.

[ellie]

Off topic a bit...but on darren's blog his main tile is "All You Ball Belong to Us". What does that mean? Or is it a riddle?

[Angela]

I will look forward to hearing from you UK people tomorrow, after the unveiling show tonight!

[Holistic Star]

Er. Well he started off by saying his whole show was misdirection.

Then he said he either:

1. faked a lottery ticket
2. actually predicted the lottery result
3. fixed the machines.

He said he didn't do 1. fake a ticket (which is technically true - he didn't get a ticket).

He spent most of the show talking about prediction in humans. i.e. showing a trick where he asked for someone who was scared of mice to come to the front. Told her she had to put her hand in 3 out of 4 covered boxes. 1 box had a mouse in it. She picked box, 3, 1, 2 and left 4. Although none of them really had a mouse in it, he turned over a card that showed he'd predicted that she would leave box 4. Apparently fear makes us more predictable.

he then spent a long time talking about a 1 in 20 chance. He told a boy he had to stamp on 14 out of 20 cups. 1 cup contained an upturned knife which would stab him through the foot. Fear was turned up by having paramedics on standby, a (fake) tetanus injection first and his bare feet swabbed with disinfectant. He asked him how much compensation he would want if he did get stabbed. the bloke said £500k. Derren wrote him a cheque for that amount. Guy stamps on 14 paper cups. Derren reveals that on the back of the cheque are the numbers 1, 12, 13, 14, 15, 18 (I think) which correspond with the numbers of cups remaining. Then goes onto stamp on 5 more cups, predictably leaving cup 13. Again message fear makes us act more predictably. Cup is revealed to have a mouse called Jenny under it rather than a knife.

[Holistic Star]

Part 2.

He then starts talking about 'group think'. In 1908 someone wrote a book called 'Wisdom of Crowds' (?) where it was revealed that a group of people when guessing the weight of the cow, if you average out their answers will be more correct than the individual guesses.

So he got 24 volunteers together 2 weeks ago and asked them to predict the 6 balls of next lottery draw and averaged the results. They got 1 right.
Then he did some team building games, to make them feel more connected, and the next time they got 3 right.
Then they did this using automatic writing (i.e. in a trance state). the numbers were averaged out and this time they got 4 right.
The next time they tried this as a group was on Wednesday. Just before the show they did a group prediction using average prediction and automatic writing. Darren averaged the results and put the balls he selected into a tube. (this wasn't shown to the group).
He then left the room, and revealed the result to the nation as shown on previous programme.

Then Derren said about option 3 and said if he fixed the machine how he would do it, including have an inside person at camelot, creating 8 sets of weighted balls (there are 8 machines and the machine used is chosen after the tickets sales close), hypnotising the people who look after them, finding a window just before they get checked for the final time, then getting back in after the draw, hypnotising the security again to replace the original balls back before being checked again.

Then he said if asked how he did it, he would just say 'it was a trick'

[Holistic Star]

that was the TV show. - Oh there was a stunt about predicting a coin toss. 'Deep mathematics' apparently. mmmmm!

much as I would love to believe the group mind thing I don't.
a) because DB has made his views on that kind of thing very clear and spends a lot of his live show time debunking any paranormal explanations.

b) because I don't believe for a second that he would actually risk his reputation on something he only trialled and got 4 numbers for 2 weeks prior to the live event.

The whole explanation show was misdirection (as I predicted )

[seeker5]

Is it possible he puts a different number on different things, and then, he reveals the item that shows the number that he won? He could pick a bunch of places for different number and memorize where each number is.

I saw an explanation of that trick once on TV.

[Holistic Star]

He's a showman first and foremost. And yes, traditional magic tricks are part of his bag.

Apparently next week he's going to mass hypnotise the country to believe they are stuck to their sofas!

If you don't see me on here on Saturday - you'll know it worked

[Angela]

That's so awesome of you to write that out, HS, thank you!

Jenny wasn't a REAL mouse, was she? It makes my heart hurt to think he risked her being stamped on.

[Holistic Star]

Yes Jenny was a real mouse

but I'm not sure a real one would wait so long under a paper cup without moving it!

It's ok typing it out. I'm printing off leaflets for a health fair I'm exhibiting at. It's 1.38 am and my ink jet printer takes forever! Got to get up at 7am to get there too. I'm supposed to be doing mini readings - hope I'm in an ok state of mind!

watching steve and erins video at moment too.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

Apparently next week he's going to mass hypnotise the country to believe they are stuck to their sofas!

If you don't see me on here on Saturday - you'll know it worked

To be safe, put your computer on a table right in front of where you'll be sitting on the couch.

ps. In case you missed it, did you see my question before your post?

[Holistic Star]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Is it possible he puts a different number on different things, and then, he reveals the item that shows the number that he won? He could pick a bunch of places for different number and memorize where each number is.

I saw an explanation of that trick once on TV.

This one? It's a bit late - I'm not sure which bit you're referring to?

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

This one? It's a bit late - I'm not sure which bit you're referring to?

Yeah. Like, did he tell everyone where he wrote it down before the person did the stunt, or he only revealed where the number was after the stunt?

[Holistic Star]

Yes in the mouse one, the cup one and the lottery one, they were all revealed after the event. He didn't predict to the audience before.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

Yes in the mouse one, the cup one and the lottery one, they were all revealed after the event. He didn't predict to the audience before.

Ok, so it's very likely he had different numbers placed in different places so he would reveal the one that "won". Maybe that was the same trick he used for the lotto thingy? So ,maybe he did a whole show using the same trick but on different subjects.

[Holistic Star]

Yes could well be that very simple explanation.


My favourite quote about him:

"I just want to burn him at the stake and watch his witch's heart bubble" - Stephen Fry

[Chandler]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Ok, so it's very likely he had different numbers placed in different places so he would reveal the one that "won". Maybe that was the same trick he used for the lotto thingy? So ,maybe he did a whole show using the same trick but on different subjects.

he revealed 6 balls that had all 6 numbers at one time. theres a video of his prediction online YouTube - Derren Brown The Event Live Lottery Prediction

[Angela]

In this computer age, I don't think it would be impossible for those balls to be specially programmed electronic devices that can be set to display numbers determined by an off camera person, or even by the sound of Derren's voice. There certainly was time for an associate to bing-bang-boom the numbers into the balls as soon as he announced them, and he was facing the balls when he announced them, so that a voice recognition program would be able to "hear" him.

It would have been a lot more impressive if he had displayed the predicted numbers ahead of time.

[Holistic Star]

Oh nuts, he didn't get to stick me to my sofa this week.

Quick summary of this weeks show:

He spent a lot of time proving that he could predict who would make what choices if he used subliminal suggestion to guide them. Probably just standard conjuring tricks imo.

He spent a lot of time talking about how the 1 min film he would play at the end of the programme would stick us to our sofas, showing test clips of what happened to people he tested it on (showing them completely stuck, crying or in a deep trance), which were repeated several times.

He then played the film, but before it he did a classic hypnotic suggestion technique. 'You will feel stuck, feel how heavy your legs feel' type of thing for a few minutes as he 'explained' how the film worked. (i.e. this is where the bulk of suggestion came.' He also flashed 'subliminal' images on the screen of people tied to chairs, but I think this was more misdirection as if they were really subliminal, you wouldn't see them!

I've been texting with friends an none of us were stuck.

I think I need a lot longer to get into a suggestible state. I know I am responsive to hypnosis, but only when I've done a lot of relaxation techniques beforehand.

[Angela]

Have you seen the video where he *sticks* a woman's feet down in the middle of an intersection? Pretty funny.

[Holistic Star]

Yes - I'm amazed at how he can get someone in a trance state so quickly! I'm not sure how he does it, or if they skip chunks of film out.

As part of the HypnoBirthing course that I teach, one of the scripts we do is to convince people that they cannot lift their right foot however hard they try. It's pretty damn amazing when people come back to the room and they are astounded that they couldn't life their right foot when I told to try!

[Angela]

Yeah, the eyelid thing is the same. No one *makes* your eyelids stick, or your right foot, you must accept the suggestion and *agree* to follow the instruction.

You and your friends didn't *agree* to follow Derren's instructions, but there were plenty of people who were willing, I'm sure. And he is the master of rapport and authority! I'm pretty sure I would comply with anything he suggested, just because he's got me such great rapport with him.

How about when he got the cashier at the races to pay out on a losing ticket? I loved that one.

I think to get a pregnant woman to trust you enough to accept your suggestions is a masterful thing, too. I really acknowledge you for taking that on -- what a huge difference you make in the world!

[joelr]

Originally Posted by ellie

Off topic a bit...but on darren's blog his main tile is "All You Ball Belong to Us". What does that mean? Or is it a riddle?

Ha. It's a parody on "all your base are belong to us"

All your base are belong to us - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[FazK]

I love Derren Brown, the thing is wouldn't it be better if you didn't know how he did it. I mean if you know how the trick works all the fun is taken out

[Brutha]

Again message fear makes us act more predictably.

That's just show.

Yes - I'm amazed at how he can get someone in a trance state so quickly! I'm not sure how he does it, or if they skip chunks of film out.

Handshake interrupts can put people generally in seconds into a trance state.
You can read up on the technique, there's quite a lot in the internet about it.

In this computer age, I don't think it would be impossible for those balls to be specially programmed electronic devices that can be set to display numbers determined by an off camera person, or even by the sound of Derren's voice. There certainly was time for an associate to bing-bang-boom the numbers into the balls as soon as he announced them, and he was facing the balls when he announced them, so that a voice recognition program would be able to "hear" him.

Voice wouldn't be a good medium. Bluetooth is much more likely.
For all we know, the balls could even be connected through a cable to a computer.

But then it seems to have been camera editing: YouTube - Derren Brown's lottery explained

Jenny wasn't a REAL mouse, was she? It makes my heart hurt to think he risked her being stamped on.

I probably had Jenny in his hand put it her there after all the taps were stamped down.
I highly doubt that there was a risk of her being stamped on.

It's just to create the narrative that there's risk of failure. It's sleight of hand and hasn't much to do with predicting where his subject will step.

In 1908 someone wrote a book called 'Wisdom of Crowds' (?) where it was revealed that a group of people when guessing the weight of the cow, if you average out their answers will be more correct than the individual guesses.

The book is Amazon.com: The Wisdom of Crowds: James Surowiecki: Books . The experiment however was done in 1908.
It's at the moment a web2.0 idea that a lot of people subscribe to.

[David21]

I'm slowly starting to doubt Derren Brown. I think his ego is starting to get the better of him. But this doesn't surprise me much since having the ability to influence people is quite a powerful thing, so that it should inflate his ego doesn't surprise me.

I recently saw the new, 'how to be a psychic spy'. People didn't see in their minds the picture behind the covered canvass, they were simply 'told' what it was through subliminal suggestion, one of Derren's few tricks.

If you looked to the left of the covered canvass when the camera showed it, you would have seen paintings in the background that had a circular theme. It is this that would have led people to draw pictures with a spiral/s. As for the stone henge bit, well, that I'm not so certain, but I believe that that may have had something to do with the wall formation behind Derren's head.

The other 'remote viewing' task Derren had someone do, the one where the professional courtroom artist had to 'see' details and features of people was also subliminal suggestion. She was allowed to see the people as she walked into the room, which would have exposed her to the fact that they were wearing cream sacs on their head, had their hands behind their back etc. So, when Derren asked her whether the person behind her had her hair tied back, she would have said yes simply because she would have made the connection between peoples hands behind their back and peoples hair tied back. And when Derren asked about whether the person behind the 'remote viewer' had dark or light hair, she would have said the latter simply because the image of the brightly coloured sacs on the peoples heads would have been in her unconscious.

Derren Brown strikes me as a fraud.