The Matrix for Dummies

[Angela]

Okay, I've home in bed with a cold, channel-surfing, so I finally watch "The Matrix." Mostly because you guys drop the odd Matrix reference around here. I got as far as the visit to the Oracle and the cat deja-vu before my brain shut down and I just wanted to take my blue pill (not THAT blue pill; my Nyquil, I mean.)

I read the wikipedia explanation of the movie so you won't spoil the plot for me, but please tell me: why does the Oracle say, sorry, Neo, you're not The One, maybe in another life. But then Neo turns out to be The One, right? He is fated to save the world (or at least all the pod people, yes?) So, who is this Oracle, and why does she give wrong information? And why would she give right information? How would she know? She's an exiled program?!? I don't get it. Why doesn't she just know who the One is without them coming for cookies? What's up with all the 'potentials'? That spoon-bender had a good line, but she was as annoying as Britney Spears speaking with an English accent. Okay, sorry; I think my cold medicine is kicking in.

[Vee]

I am not a great philosopher but this is my humble opinion -

Neo doesn't realize the abilities he has yet therefore he is not the One yet at the point he talks to the Oracle. The Oracle does know everything that happens up until a choice that is not yet understood.

The Matrix sequels go further into who the Oracle is if you want more info on her xx

[Akashic_Librarian]

I am an expert on the Matrix so here goes.

People only hear what they are ready to hear. Thats an old Buddhist principle. Neo (anagram of The One) must realise his potential. It cannot be forced, it cannot be faked. He has to decide what to do. The Oracle IS an exiled program, but it is strongly hinted that during the the course of the Matricies coming and going she has evolved beyond just a program. Into more of a deity.

As Morpheus says, "She told you exactly what you needed to hear, no more" That is the key to the Oracle, she is like a guide, but she doesn't give you the full walkthrough.

And to answer your question about why should she give information, this is her answer to Morpheus when he questions her, "I expect you to do what you've always done Morpheus, to make up your own damn mind"

Hope that Helps :-D

[Angela]

So Neo has to go through a total transformation ("another life") before he would be The One?

Akashic, please spoil it for me: does Neo actually save the world (or the pod people)? What's the ultimate outcome of the story?

[Jennihul]

The key is when Morpheus says "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."

For Neo, knowing he was The One meant little because he didn't really yet believe it. But before he realized it, his actions and abilities showed him and the others that he was actually walking the path of The One and so he then believed, as an afterthought.

Jennifer

[Jennihul]

Originally Posted by Angela

So Neo has to go through a total transformation ("another life") before he would be The One?

Akashic, please spoil it for me: does Neo actually save the world (or the pod people)? What's the ultimate outcome of the story?

You really need to watch all the movies. They are kind of the most important films of this era, if you enjoy deep philosophical/religious concepts.

Jennifer

[Jcs]

Originally Posted by Angela

So Neo has to go through a total transformation ("another life") before he would be The One?

When Neo confronts the Architect you'll see there has been dozens of "previous neo's". That was a weird plot twist for me .

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

You really need to watch all the movies. They are kind of the most important films of this era, if you enjoy deep philosophical/religious concepts.

Jennifer

Whoa. I'm not sure I can stomach that much Keanu Reeves.

[Jcs]

And if it was Mr. Depp? Then you would eh

[Angela]

I was trying to think of someone I would have enjoyed more in that role and yes, Johnny Depp would have appealed to me much more!

[Erin Pavlina]

Reminds me of a dream I had with both Johnny and Keanu and we were all in a movie together and I was the femme fatale and I had to choose which guy I was going to be with. Tough choice. One was a knave (Johnny) and one was a prince (Keanu). So what did I choose?

Became lucid and chose both of course.

Sorry I couldn't resist sharing because the opportunity presented itself.

But back to the thread at hand...

If I were you Angela I would rent all three and watch them back to back. They are really good movies. After I saw Matrix the first time I walked out of the theatre stunned thinking, "yes! Finally a movie that got it right!" I even went back a day or two later to see it again.

The other two supposedly weren't as good but I found tremendous value and entertainment in all 3 of them.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

The other two supposedly weren't as good but I found tremendous value and entertainment in all 3 of them.

The problem with part 2 and 3 is that they could never match the stellar expectations of everyone who had seen (and enjoyed) part 1. They also suffer slightly from too-much-budget-itus (filmmakers need firm bounds to be really creative - not a blank check).

That said, I really enjoy the underlying philosophies of all three films and they do seem to get better every time I watch 'em.

Angela... if you were the oracle and knew that you had to set Neo on a path where he discovers his own strengths, what you would you say? Would telling him flat out that he has more power than anyone else in this world make a true believer out of him?

Keep exploring the rabbit hole!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Angela... if you were the oracle and knew that you had to set Neo on a path where he discovers his own strengths, what you would you say? Would telling him flat out that he has more power than anyone else in this world make a true believer out of him?

Good question. Is that the job of The Oracle? To set Neo on a path where he discovers his own strength? I assume her job is also to set those other "potentials" on the path of discovering their own strength, too, then. But why is it a competition for "The One" like America's Next Top Savior? Why do the potentials, including Neo, get set up to think that maybe they are the one true jesus-like answer to all of mankind's waking up? Wouldn't any Oracle worth her salt be more holistic in her approach? Or is the one true savior thing a key to the rest of the franchise?

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

The problem with part 2 and 3 is that they could never match the stellar expectations of everyone who had seen (and enjoyed) part 1. They also suffer slightly from too-much-budget-itus (filmmakers need firm bounds to be really creative - not a blank check).

Not just that. For me, as someone who has studied military strategies and equipment in my younger days, there is too much stupidity in the way they fought the machines and defended their territory when the machine finally dug to their land.

The second and third movie are also more complicated in term of the meaning they are trying to explain, and in the plot. The first one was relatively simple.

However, there is one quote I really like from Morpheus. When his superior told him nobody else believed what Morpheus believed, Morpheus replied with something like "My beliefs do not require others to believe as I do".

[Jennihul]

Actually, I think Keanu was perfect for the role.

I watched the trilogy this week again for the nth time. The first movie especially has a very choppy action style. Very pointed dialog as if every syllable was planned out to have the most punch, or impact. It's as if every frame could be frozen and lifted and placed into a comic book or graphic novel. Which is what the Wachowski's seemed to intend for the film. Johnny Depp's acting style is much more fluid than Keanu's and I think it would have stuck out weirdly. JD's face is a little too warm and cuddly for the role as well. Keanu's sharp, melancholy features matched the sharp attitude of the film.

Jennifer

[Jennihul]

Originally Posted by Angela

Good question. Is that the job of The Oracle? To set Neo on a path where he discovers his own strength? I assume her job is also to set those other "potentials" on the path of discovering their own strength, too, then. But why is it a competition for "The One" like America's Next Top Savior? Why do the potentials, including Neo, get set up to think that maybe they are the one true jesus-like answer to all of mankind's waking up? Wouldn't any Oracle worth her salt be more holistic in her approach? Or is the one true savior thing a key to the rest of the franchise?

They were literally scouring the Matrix for their savior because the fate of Zion depended on it. Neo was the second coming...or seventh or six really. The other potentials were just other potentials. Not a contest. A hunt.

They exhibited the ability to bend the rules of the Matrix which was one of the characteristics The One supposedly possessed. So they all had to come before the Oracle to see if they were The One. But none of them were discovered by Morpheus which, in reality, made them no more than innocent little magicians, since the Oracle prophesied that Morpheus would find The One.

The better question is: was Neo The One because he was The One? Or because Morpheus fulfilled the prophecy by deciding he was The One? (See the Harry Potter series for a similar storyline.)

Jennifer

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Angela

Good question. Is that the job of The Oracle? To set Neo on a path where he discovers his own strength? I assume her job is also to set those other "potentials" on the path of discovering their own strength, too, then.

Yes, she is a guide to Neo, the potentials and to other characters, like Morpheus.

But why is it a competition for "The One" like America's Next Top Savior?

As Jennifer explained already, it's not a contest. Neo is The One, but when he encounters the oracle for the first time he has yet to discover and believe that.

I just love how she tells him what he -not you- needs to hear to eventually become who he needs to be.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

I just love how she tells him what he -not you- needs to hear to eventually become who he needs to be.

hmmm. well, who I needs to be won't be watching the other 2 films, I reckon, which I just realized reading your post. So I guess you are my oracle!

[wolfgang]

My take was that the Oracle didn't know - or rather not knowing made her say she thought he wasn't the One. I don't think she was trying to push/guide Neo into being the One, while lying to him about it as if she knew. She didn't know.

Neo was the one that needed to know on his own.

It makes it so that the One is more powerful or more in the know than the Oracle. If she did know and told him, that would undermine Neo's power. If she did know and held that from him, she would not be a good Oracle, I think. So, then, I conclude she didn't know but instead of saying she didn't know, said he's not the One.

[Angela]

Ahhh, that makes sense. His One-ness is too big for even the Oracle to really *get*. And she's not human, right? She's a program, so it feels more inspiring to me that the human One, even at a lower level of consciousness, would have more innate personal power than a program would. Well, because how can you have personal power if you're not a person?

[Rose of Cairo]

I think she knows he's the one (doesn't she or someone else say that later in 2 or 3...?).

In my opinion she doesn't tell him because at that moment he cannot possibly believe such a thing, he's not ready to hear it, he doesn't feel anything of his own power. If she told him flat out "yeah dude, you're the One" my guess is he would be sooo scared of his responsibility that he'd get all paralysed.

Maybe he wouldn't decide to save Morpheus either, cause the life of the One is so precious?

That way on the other hand, he thinks he's not the One, since the great oracle said so. So he's much more courageous and decides to sacrifice himself to save Morpheus. Thus he ends up doing exactly what he had to do, discovering his oneness in the process

My interpretation, but I'm not a Matrix specialist, I barely remember them.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

In my opinion she doesn't tell him because at that moment he cannot possibly believe such a thing, he's not ready to hear it, he doesn't feel anything of his own power. If she told him flat out "yeah dude, you're the One" my guess is he would be sooo scared of his responsibility that he'd get all paralysed.

Maybe he wouldn't decide to save Morpheus either, cause the life of the One is so precious?

That's the view I hold. That she told him exactly what he needed to hear. Because he didn't think he was the one, he did things he didn't think he could. He didn't feel he had to protect himself, he didn't think he was precious. Instead he felt he was expandable for the greater good of the mission. Thus, he took some wild and crazy risks that in the end proved he was the one. He earned being the one, instead of being appointed the one.

My interpretation, but I'm not a Matrix specialist, I barely remember them.

I'm surprised you actually watched them

[Angela]

okay, okay, I'll watch them. seeker5, I'm intrigued by what you said -- it reminds of me something inspiring Steve said the other day about .... what was it... approach life like you're in a game where you might be able to be a character who saves the world, why not play big.. etc.

I'm paraphrasing and under the influence of cold medicine, but you know what I mean, right. Anyway. i'm sure I'm not the only one who watched the matrix under the influence of drugs.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I think she knows he's the one (doesn't she or someone else say that later in 2 or 3...?).

In my opinion she doesn't tell him because at that moment he cannot possibly believe such a thing, he's not ready to hear it, he doesn't feel anything of his own power. If she told him flat out "yeah dude, you're the One" my guess is he would be sooo scared of his responsibility that he'd get all paralysed.

Maybe he wouldn't decide to save Morpheus either, cause the life of the One is so precious?

That way on the other hand, he thinks he's not the One, since the great oracle said so. So he's much more courageous and decides to sacrifice himself to save Morpheus. Thus he ends up doing exactly what he had to do, discovering his oneness in the process

My interpretation, but I'm not a Matrix specialist, I barely remember them.

That's just how I 'read' it Rose. She told him what he needed to hear, not the 'from the horses mouth' truth of the matter. Perhaps there a lesson in that, in so far as giving advice to other people on these forums, to guage it appropriately for that person etc...

Jamie.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Perhaps there a lesson in that, in so far as giving advice to other people on these forums, to guage it appropriately for that person etc...

Well, we're not omniscient; we're not exiled programs, we're human beings. When someone posts here, they are opening themselves up to hearing the truth as it exists for a wide variety of people, all of whom are hopefully committed to understanding and compassion -- but not necessarily tailoring or adjusting the expression of our truth to fit into the opening that we think we can see.

We can't really know what someone will *get* from what we have to *give*, and I think the best we can do is be as fully self-expressed as possible, while still being responsible and purposeful. Fortunately I think most people here include being understanding, compassionate, and loving in their purpose. But even if they don't -- their full self-expression is a huge gift, for the receiver to practice opening up to and experiencing the truth of.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by seeker5

That's the view I hold.

Hehe, glad we agree on something so important

He earned being the one, instead of being appointed the one.

Or: he Learned being the one on his own, instead of having to deal with such a burden without feeling it.

I'm surprised you actually watched them

Why?

Jamie: I've been thinking about that a lot of times, asking myself if what I tell others is in the slightest useful for them, since I say it from my perspective which is different from theirs, and if maybe I should say what I think they need to hear instead of just what I think about their question/situation.

But then I realized that I have no clue about what they need to hear, and that it would be very presumptuous of me to imagine I can play teacher and tell them pedagogically meaningful things!

Plus I trust the universe that if they attracted me in their thread, then what I tell them must have a sense on some level Like I'm just an instrument and my intuition tells me what to write.

Does this make sense?

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by seeker5

That's the view I hold. That she told him exactly what he needed to hear. Because he didn't think he was the one, he did things he didn't think he could. He didn't feel he had to protect himself, he didn't think he was precious. Instead he felt he was expandable for the greater good of the mission. Thus, he took some wild and crazy risks that in the end proved he was the one. He earned being the one, instead of being appointed the one.



I'm surprised you actually watched them

If he earned being the one, then the Oracle didn't know he was the one at the time. Nor even see him as becoming or earing being the One. She was ignorant and that happened to be what Neo needed to hear to keep him being bold. I think the Oracle was not as crafty as your view sees her. Her "reading" was to not see him as the one - not to cover up that she thinks he's the one by not telling him everything.

It would be interesting to ask Erin if that happens in her readings. She only sees what helps the sitter (when being a good reader). Not that she sees everything and has to try to decide what info to give out or not - wouldn't that be a burden? And probably not the way it goes.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

If he earned being the one, then the Oracle didn't know he was the one at the time.

I think she knew he was the one.

Furthermore, there is a reference later on where they somewhat explained that the Oracle tells people only what they need to believe.

But hey, only the two brothers who wrote the movies truly know

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by seeker5

I think she knew he was the one.

Furthermore, there is a reference later on where they somewhat explained that the Oracle tells people only what they need to believe.

But hey, only the two brothers who wrote the movies truly know

Yeah but... such an important topic, ha? That I remember too - the Oracle only tells people what they need to believe. But then why is that? I'd say that's because she doesn't pick up on what people don't need to know or can't take in - not that she picks up everything and keeps some of it to herself. Just my view on that. I like to think of the Oracle as up front and not too involved with the unfolding of the One, that she was just part of a bigger plan that even she couldn't see.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Does this make sense?

Yes. I think there's a good case for honesty, in most situations, and in any case, good to follow the promtings of our own hearts and intuition.

I really don't have the answers though Rose, it just made me think, this thing with the Oracle in The Matrix, telling Neo what he needed, not the straight and direct truth. Then again, we're not in movies! So perhaps in the real world (or even on here), it's no good. I really don't know to be honest.

I'm kinda referring to the thread with the young girl who'd come clean with her grand parents (about being dishonest with them for 2 years). It was suggested that some we're being a little harsh on her. I think sometimes that's a good thing, and my teachers' teacher had a thing, of kick a dog while it's down (we need to feel the pain of rock-bottom, so we'll stand up upder out own steam, on our own legs etc). Then again, maybe softy softy works better? Who am I to say, I guess all a person can do, is give an honest opinion on a matter.

Sorry if I've derailed the thread!

Jamie.